England Vs Germany

[fka dagest]

As the now defunct Channel 5 prgramme once asked what went wrong?

Would a fair score have been about 8-3?

I feel the commentators copped out when they said James was the only player to emerge with credit. I thought Lampard, Barry and Defoe weren't bad.

They should point the fingers at undroppables who really under-performed all tournament: Gerrard, Rooney, Glenn Johnson.

Anyway, so much was wrong that I could write until midnight.

Capello must take some flak too. Heskey on for Defoe? Wtf?

One last gripe, please stop showing David ******* Beckham every 10 minutes. Has his publicity team got a contract with the BBC or something?

[Portland Bill]

At least we didnt shank a result, Argentina would have got double figures against us !

[The Batman]

we've been awful the whole world cup.

we just came across a decent team rather than the 3 poor teams that were in our group.

[bucksred]

As the now defunct Channel 5 prgramme once asked what went wrong?

Would a fair score have been about 8-3?

I feel the commentators copped out when they said James was the only player to emerge with credit. I thought Lampard, Barry and Defoe weren't bad.

They should point the fingers at undroppables who really under-performed all tournament: Gerrard, Rooney, Glenn Johnson.

Anyway, so much was wrong that I could write until midnight.

Capello must take some flak too. Heskey on for Defoe? Wtf?

One last gripe, please stop showing David ******* Beckham every 10 minutes. Has his publicity team got a contract with the BBC or something?

Thinks thats fair, although I wasnt convinced by Bary to be honest. James did well IMHO too.

[Gazred]

We were simply outperformed today by a very good team, player for player the ability is there in the England side but not one single player has really shone over the 4 games, Rooney looked the mirror opposite of what he really is, the midfield severly underperformed and i think it was only the defence and a lack of serious opposition that got us this far and when that went to pot today we were badly exposed as a very disjointed team. The Lampard goal obviously changed the game at the only time we looked dangerous, shocking decision, can't think of another one ive seen at this level as clear as that.

The best team won, but England only have themselves to blame in what i thought was a perfectly winnable match if they rose to the occasion.

[WellRedPhil]

What the f ** k went right is a better question. And I'm talking about the whole tournament.

[goonivan!]

Well here we go, let's vent!

Can't believe Upson takes all the blame, as someone who has played centre half for 25 years, you defend as a team when you don't have the ball our midfield were shocking in that respect. Having said that Terry should have anticipated Klose winning the ball for the first goal.Barry should have man marked Ozil which would have allowed our full backs to get forward more rather than tuck in, would also have released our more creative players through midfield.

Rooney was pointless, not in the game or the tournament. Bet he's on fire for Man U! Why doesn't he sing the National Anthem?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

We were simply outperformed today by a very good team, player for player the ability is there in the England side but not one single player has really shone over the 4 games, Rooney looked the mirror opposite of what he really is, the midfield severly underperformed and i think it was only the defence and a lack of serious opposition that got us this far and when that went to pot today we were badly exposed as a very disjointed team. The Lampard goal obviously changed the game at the only time we looked dangerous, shocking decision, can't think of another one ive seen at this level as clear as that.

The best team won, but England only have themselves to blame in what i thought was a perfectly winnable match if they rose to the occasion.

THE DEFENCE you are having a laugh, Please watch not only this game but the other 3, The defence has been a disaster waiting to happen, Circus midgets out jumping John Terry, Upson and Carragher and Johnson mistake after mistake that just went unpunished, Defence my arse.

[goonivan!]

THE DEFENCE you are having a laugh, Please watch not only this game but the other 3, The defence has been a disaster waiting to happen, Circus midgets out jumping John Terry, Upson and Carragher and Johnson mistake after mistake that just went unpunished, Defence my arse.

They weren't great but were left exposed by the midfield. Who was marking Ozil? It was obvious he needed picking up, if Barry had done nothing else but stop him playing that would have been enough. It was Sunday morning defending from the midfield, "who cares if we don't have the ball, we've got four fat, slow blokes to get the ball back 'cos we're much too special to defend"

It's a team game.

[Gazred]

THE DEFENCE you are having a laugh, Please watch not only this game but the other 3, The defence has been a disaster waiting to happen, Circus midgets out jumping John Terry, Upson and Carragher and Johnson mistake after mistake that just went unpunished, Defence my arse.

Never said they were any good, only one of the reasons we got through...how did we get through then...luck?

[fka dagest]

They weren't great but were left exposed by the midfield. Who was marking Ozil? It was obvious he needed picking up, if Barry had done nothing else but stop him playing that would have been enough. It was Sunday morning defending from the midfield, "who cares if we don't have the ball, we've got four fat, slow blokes to get the ball back 'cos we're much too special to defend"

It's a team game.

Yeah, where's Carlton Palmer when you need him?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

What went wrong, it's easy, Men against boys and the boys thrashed the men (and I use the term men very lightly).

I suspect that 6 of our starting players earn more than the whole of the starting German 11 and 11 of our players earn more than whole of the German squad.

Never mind another £50 to Murdoch.

[goonivan!]

Yeah, where's Carlton Palmer when you need him?

Don't take much.

"Gareth, you're not as attacking as Steve, Frank, Ashley, Glen and James so I want you to take one for the coutry and stop their best player" Couldn't manage it could they?

Either they couldn't spot it or couldn't be bothered or knew better.

What would Germany have offered without Ozil making room for others? He played for his team by making runs that would get his mates the ball, what did our superstars do?

[fka dagest]

Don't take much.

"Gareth, you're not as attacking as Steve, Frank, Ashley, Glen and James so I want you to take one for the coutry and stop their best player" Couldn't manage it could they?

Either they couldn't spot it or couldn't be bothered or knew better.

What would Germany have offered without Ozil making room for others? He played for his team by making runs that would get his mates the ball, what did our superstars do?

Sorry mate I wasn't criticising your view. I agree actually. I was trying to produce a , 'what about Carlton Palmer? - I'll get my coat' type post. Picked the wrong smiley thing I think.

You're right they couldn't manage it. The worst thing about the German attacking was the amount of time and space they often had - smacks of lack of organisation to me. Who's to blame? Terry, Gerrard, Capello?

[22A]

OK the Germans won 4-1 mainly by not over or under hitting the ball when attempting a pass like the England team did.

Bit like City last season though in places. The first goal; Germany's forward ran through and put his arm out across the chest of the England defender. Palace had a goal diasllowed for that same reason at AG. The 2nd & 4th goals did appear similar to many of the late goals City conceded, so you may have something there.

Hmm; Coppell for England?

As for the Ref;

At 0-0 he got in the way of an England pass so the ball rolled to a German player.

He allowed the first goal despite the arm across the chest detailed above.

He and his linesman failed to see England's 2nd goal (just like no officials saw Maradonna punching the ball in 86).

Perhaps to attone for England's 2nd goal or perhaps through ineptness, Germany won a corner and he awarded England a goal kick.

4 years ago Graham Poll was villified for booking a player 3 times and not sending him off, so presumably we've seen the last of today's Ref?

[SimplyRed]

The British game is dead, but we don't know it because the Premier League laps it up and makes a lot of money from it.

Our game is based on pace and strength, but the rest of the world emphasise tehnique and passing - we can't keep up with them on the World stage.

See my post here in the Gerrard thread - Gerrard

The FA needs to change the emphasis in their coaching methods - we need to play more like the rest of the world or be buried as has-beens on the international stage. We will never again win the World Cup playing the British game.

[22A]

http://www.redbubble...1-out-of-africa

This appeared within an hour of the final whistle.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Never said they were any good, only one of the reasons we got through...how did we get through then...luck?

Absolutely or was our skill?

[fka dagest]

The British game is dead, but we don't know it because the Premier League laps it up and makes a lot of money from it.

Our game is based on pace and strength, but the rest of the world emphasise tehnique and passing - we can't keep up with them on the World stage.

See my post here in the Gerrard thread - Gerrard

The FA needs to change the emphasis in their coaching methods - we need to play more like the rest of the world or be buried as has-beens on the international stage. We will never again win the World Cup playing the British game.

I agree, the problems go deep. The problem is, in my eyes, is that the English (partly because it was our invention) don't believe they've got anything to learn from the rest of the world - hence the frequent complaints of injustice, foul play that you regularly hear after English failures.

The simple truth is that English footballers aren't good enough.

[Donald]

Too many spoiled footballers for my liking.

Personally John Terry would never play for England again after his recent comments in the Press Conference, don't care what he does at Chelsea - But would never play again

Lampard - Never does it in the big games and has never done it at International Level, playing him means you can't get the best out of gerrard.

Heskey - Just why.....bring him on instead of Crouch.....WHY!!!!!!

Looking at the post match players reactions and the ones who gave interviews, majority of them just saw it as another game, the only player who actually looked gutted was Joe Cole

[Guest]

No attack threat

No defence

No wingers

No midfield (Lampard excepted put in some effort)

Clueless manager

The prem is vastly over run by foriegn imports who raise it to a level not sustainable by purely English players; a English team made up of championship talent would of put up a better show; f.f.s a team of players from the conference would have.

[Atticus]

Its simple for me. We have a bunch of PATHETIC childish pampered pre maddonna's playing for us along with a stubborn and naive coach.

If the rumours are true and the players didnt play for the manager then they can all #### off, id never want them near an england shirt again. They are soooo in a bubble fantasy world that they forget about the thousands of fans that have treked it out there paying god knows how much???

For me, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Upson, Wright-Phillips and Heskey would be dropped. All over rated, on far to much money and never performed for England, get shot of em, they for me are bad influences.

Rooney has been one of the WORST players at this tournament, doesnt look like he gives a shit, shocking all round. I think it has all got to his head, he thinks he is untouchable, this HAS to change. he is an Arrogant S### atm imo. And Terry? Jesus christ, what a fake he is.

But Capello has to go. Rooney will NEVER be dropped under him, Rooneys head will grow under him. Gerrard constantly on the left???? Heskey on????? Worst ever result in world cup history after dismal draws against Algeria and USA??? BYE BYE CAPELLO

We need somebody with bottle. That will drop this over paid arrogant big heads.

[REDOXO]

No attack threat

No defence

No wingers

No midfield (Lampard excepted put in some effort)

Clueless manager

The prem is vastly over run by foriegn imports who raise it to a level not sustainable by purely English players; a English team made up of championship talent would of put up a better show; f.f.s a team of players from the conference would have.

Agree with all of this (except Lampard he was crap defensively which is 50% of his job..a couple of shots against the bar... yes...but not there when needed to track back with a German forward/midfielder)...

Our players were simply crap. Terry and Upson must be the slowest pairing since Little and Large turned out for a celebrity 11. Midfield had no bite or will to win probably because they all seemed to be playing out of position and with a remit that was completely alien and the forwards were starved of any decent service from anyone (with the exception of Milner who just about showed as being our best player). How many times did you see Rooney coming deep just to get at touch of the ball...

It seemed to me that Cappello just picked names on reputation rather than the players to fill the roles and then tried to squeeze those names into a coherent team formation.

Personally not taking Scot Parker was a massive mistake, the boy was in form and raring to go, why the **** oh why was he not on the plane. Heskey rather than Walcott when you already have a 6ft 7 centre forward was not only a waste but made us look one dimensional, leggy, tired and slow... Not one Englishman could have lived with his German counterpart for speed!!! and lets face it they weren't worried about the speed of our team...Were They!?

The faster Capello is fired the better now, today was not just abject failure but made us look like a pub side, no ideas, no width, no strength and no athleticism against a side that oooozzed speed and quality passing.

I dont live in blighty anymore and am not sure what people are saying, however the next England manager picks himself almost...Harry Redknapp will play a game that suits our English attributes of tempo and aggression and is really the only man for the job moving forward...

Anyway as I have already said on another thread, my prediction is Nicky Maynard will be Englands accepted centre forward by 2014...and is as good as anything I have seen in an England shirt in the last three weeks already!!!

[Gazred]

Absolutely or was our skill?

Its the fact we kept 2 clean sheets, would have been 3 if not for Greens howler, if we defended in the group games as we did today, we wouldn't of even made it to the last 16.

[REDOXO]

Its the fact we kept 2 clean sheets, would have been 3 if not for Greens howler, if we defended in the group games as we did today, we wouldn't of even made it to the last 16.

in our group we had Algeria, USA and Slovenia...They simply didn't have the players to expose us at the back...

Altidore nearly did and he plays for Hull Reserves...When we came up against a decent side we were exposed for the one paced one trick poney we actually are...

Rooney is all we've got at this level...most of the rest are has beens and also (rans) walks.

Carragher Carthorse as are Heskey Upson and Terry...

Thee full backs were both terrified today and the midfield were non existant under pressure and there was no one any better to bring in on the bench...

[redcityman]

Too many spoiled footballers for my liking.

Personally John Terry would never play for England again after his recent comments in the Press Conference, don't care what he does at Chelsea - But would never play again

Lampard - Never does it in the big games and has never done it at International Level, playing him means you can't get the best out of gerrard.

Heskey - Just why.....bring him on instead of Crouch.....WHY!!!!!!

Looking at the post match players reactions and the ones who gave interviews, majority of them just saw it as another game, the only player who actually looked gutted was Joe Cole

Too true, you can just imagine the thought process of their selfish minds ' oh well, we've got the Champions League to look forward to',.

For me players today (especially prem players) are so distanced from your average fan I doubt many if any gave the fans who gave up their time and money to go to SA and back those players to the hilt a second thought, I love my country as much as the next man, but maybe it's about time we reciprocated the feeling.

[Chivs]

For me there were only three problems today.

Fabio Capello.

The players

David Pleat

Why Fabio?

Well, he insisted on playing a 4-4-2 that simply doesn't suit the players he has. He insisted on playing Gerrard on the left which doesn't suit this world-class middle midfield player. (At one point he moved Gerrard and played the world class centre forward Rooney at left midfield).

There was no balance in the team. He kept trying to play players who weren't suited to their positions.

Shouldn't Rooney have been replaced at some point during this World Cup? Perhaps Capello is scared of the "celebrities".

Capello is a monumental failure who must be replaced.

Why the players?

Well, once they cross the white line it's their responsibility to run the game. Of all the current England team how many can you see being future managers? Lampard definitely. James maybe. Anyone else? It beggars belief that we have 2 people intelligent enough to understand when the game needs to change. This is the international team!!

Why David Pleat?

It bugs the hell out of me that FiveLive employ these experts to analyse a game for us. The same experts who have been responsible for the inept English players that have come through the academies in the last 20 years.

Ping a ball at a Spaniard at 30mph and he will control it. Do the same to an English international and it will bounce 3 yards off his legs. What do our David Pleats spend their time teaching these players? We have known for 30 years that English players are not as "technical" as foreigners. And the result?

Germany 4 - 1 England

[Gazred]

in our group we had Algeria, USA and Slovenia...They simply didn't have the players to expose us at the back...

Altidore nearly did and he plays for Hull Reserves...When we came up against a decent side we were exposed for the one paced one trick poney we actually are...

Rooney is all we've got at this level...most of the rest are has beens and also (rans) walks.

Carragher Carthorse as are Heskey Upson and Terry...

Thee full backs were both terrified today and the midfield were non existant under pressure and there was no one any better to bring in on the bench...

As i said in my original post, a lack of decent opposition and clean sheets, which surely must be credited in some way to the defence and keeper. Have never put Terry in the carthorse category myself, pretty much every player to a man underperformed, players like A.Cole dont suddenly become bad players over night. Sure, get done by a decent German side but at least put in a performance through the group, which must of been one of the easiest on paper we've had in a long time, had they done that perhaps we might of made the quarters before a performance like today and been humiliated by the Argies instead!. There is an over expectation for England to do something at every tournament they get to, England were ranked 8th going into the finals, they could only draw with teams ranked 14th and 30th and they were 2nd best to the team in 6th....so i guess they're exactly where they're supposed to be....packing their bags for home.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Its the fact we kept 2 clean sheets, would have been 3 if not for Greens howler, if we defended in the group games as we did today, we wouldn't of even made it to the last 16.

Bull crap, the 3 group games were against crap opposition, The minute we came up against a half tidy side we were shown up for the crap overpaid cowards we actually are, Just thank god we were'nt playing against Argentina it would have been a cricket score, Check my responses about Englands defence, I always thought we looked dodgy at the back from day one.

[REDOXO]

Bull crap, the 3 group games were against crap opposition, The minute we came up against a half tidy side we were shown up for the crap overpaid cowards we actually are, Just thank god we were'nt playing against Argentina it would have been a cricket score, Check my responses about Englands defence, I always thought we looked dodgy at the back from day one.

Exactly.

We were awful at the back the whole tournament, blind luck when Altidore hit the post and crap opposition is why we didn't concede more than 1 goal...

Today we were truly awful against no more than a half decent team...No bottle no pace no wit no wisdom no central defence scared full backs poser midfield and a barely served forward line...

Terry was taken to bits by speed and workrate the guy just looked ****** by the 60th minute Upson is just crap

I'm not sure what some people think but our players were found out to be the over paid over hyped wasters that we expect... England Expects Its Posers to Get Thrashed by a team on a 10th of the wages but with 100x the heart...They were hungry we were not!

Congratulations Germany you made your country proud!!! Good Luck for the rest of the competition