Sean O'driscoll - The £1m Question

[Martyn Hocking]

It would have cost us £1m in compensation to sign Sean O'Driscoll as Coppell's replacement - that was the figure Burnley were facing when they looked at poaching him last season.

Instead, we spent exactly that sum on two strikers who haven't scored a goal between them due to the risible lack of creativity in the midfield unit playing behind them.

For a money man, Steve L has shown a staggering lack of foresight on this one. In any football club, the most important individual is the manager and yet we went for a panic signing in less than 24 hours after Copout quit.

The upshot? A total lack of leadership from the top down. We have:

* a chairman who now lives as a tax exile 100s of miles from the club

* a manager with no experience or obvious charisma

* a club captain absent for months due to a self-inflicted injury

* no midfield general (WHY didn't we replace Hartley?)

* no defensive passion (replacing Orr with Hunt was like replacing the life and soul of the party with an undertaker)

* no belief among supporters that we are going to achieve promotion - instead we are already talking about relegation...

In every respect, we are now in a worse position than we were the night GJ left BCFC - sad but true. Even those who hated GJ with a passion would not have advocated ditching him to make Millen his full-time replacement but that is what has happened.

[Ron]

Yawn. Come back at Christmas.

[Barrs Court Red]

I'm told £2million.

Wanted him instead of Coppell, and still want him at City now.

[WellRedPhil]

I think Millen's appointment was a knee-jerk reaction following a huge shock to the system where Coppell's departure is concerned. However, I still think it's too early to be slating Millen and assuming he is not fit for the job. Don't get me wrong, I believe, as I did at the time, that it was the wrong appointment and spending one million on a well respected and talented manager is surely a better investment than spending one million on two hardly prolific strikers. O Driscoll has shown he can find bargains, and is obviously a man that believes very much in building a stable team, who play football the right way.

If the question is would he have been a better investment than Pitman and Stead, then yes in my honest opinion. However, we have Millen, and we have a big squad of players who surely can perform well at this level. Our focus now must be on getting the defence and midfield sorted, and trying to build from there. It will not be a hugely entertaining season and I imagine we're in for some pastings, but it will be a transistional year, and hopefully one that will see us avoid a relegation scrap.

[Robbored]

It would have cost us £1m in compensation to sign Sean O'Driscoll as Coppell's replacement - that was the figure Burnley were facing when they looked at poaching him last season.

Instead, we spent exactly that sum on two strikers who haven't scored a goal between them due to the risible lack of creativity in the midfield unit playing behind them.

For a money man, Steve L has shown a staggering lack of foresight on this one. In any football club, the most important individual is the manager and yet we went for a panic signing in less than 24 hours after Copout quit.

The upshot? A total lack of leadership from the top down. We have:

* a chairman who now lives as a tax exile 100s of miles from the club

* a manager with no experience or obvious charisma

* a club captain absent for months due to a self-inflicted injury

* no midfield general (WHY didn't we replace Hartley?)

* no defensive passion (replacing Orr with Hunt was like replacing the life and soul of the party with an undertaker)

* no belief among supporters that we are going to achieve promotion - instead we are already talking about relegation...

In every respect, we are now in a worse position than we were the night GJ left BCFC - sad but true. Even those who hated GJ with a passion would not have advocated ditching him to make Millen his full-time replacement but that is what has happened.

All based on a slow start to the new season thats not yet 10 games in.

[Martyn Hocking]

Yawn. Come back at Christmas.

Thanks for that well-thought out reply - you seriously think we are going to improve between now and Christmas. If so, give me three good reasons:

1.

2.

3.

[Ron]

I think Millen's appointment was a knee-jerk reaction following a huge shock to the system where Coppell's departure is concerned. However, I still think it's too early to be slating Millen and assuming he is not fit for the job. Don't get me wrong, I believe, as I did at the time, that it was the wrong appointment and spending one million on a well respected and talented manager is surely a better investment than spending one million on two hardly prolific strikers. O Driscoll has shown he can find bargains, and is obviously a man that believes very much in building a stable team, who play football the right way.

Knee-jerk? For ****'s sake, look at the facts. Millen was second in line to the throne when Coppell got the job, and would have got it had Coppell not been appointed, after a successful caretaker spell which in other clubs has led to, over the years, hundreds of new permanent managers being found. When Coppell left Millen was drafted in for whatever reason, but given how long it took to appoint Coppell, how we were already into the season and Millen's connections with the club, his recommendation from GJ and SC and his record during his stint as caretaker, the facts suggest Millen was the best candidate. Not that you thought about that for one second.

C&P from something last night, but then the moronic output feels like the same morose bullshit being rolled out again and again so whatever.

[Martyn Hocking]

All based on a slow start to the new season thats not yet 10 games in.

We are playing worse not better Robbo - where can you honestly see improvement since Milwall?

[Ron]

1. Maynard.

2. 1 really poor result since Millen took over; Doncaster & S****horpe very good, Ipswich not great but no surprise and Barnsley far from terrible.

3. You don't finish the season 6 games in.

4. Pitman and Stead still gelling together.

5. Ribeiro and Carey returning to fitness to bolster the defence.

6. The loan market is still open.

7. Millen thrown in at the deep end, needs time.

8. Gary Johnson's 9 game losing streak.

9. Haynes.

10. Adomah.

11. Stead.

[WellRedPhil]

Knee-jerk? For ****'s sake, look at the facts. Millen was second in line to the throne when Coppell got the job, and would have got it had Coppell not been appointed, after a successful caretaker spell which in other clubs has led to, over the years, hundreds of new permanent managers being found. When Coppell left Millen was drafted in for whatever reason, but given how long it took to appoint Coppell, how we were already into the season and Millen's connections with the club, his recommendation from GJ and SC and his record during his stint as caretaker, the facts suggest Millen was the best candidate. Not that you thought about that for one second.

C&P from something last night, but then the moronic output feels like the same morose bullshit being rolled out again and again so whatever.

Bollocks. Are you honestly telling me that you believe we would have appointed Millen if Coppell was not available? Why? Because when Coppell f ** ked off and Millen was appointed Landsdown conveniently stated that he's always been second in line. Landsdown offered vocal support to Millen and rightly so, but this doesn't confirm anything, and the fact Landsdown stated we had such a high amount of itnerest makes me believe Millen would not have been appointed, especially after Tinnion's failings. I have thought about this, just more in depth than you, who obviously believes everything he hears in the world of football and if someone says otherwise you pass them off as moronic.

Appointing someone as a manager within hours of the previous manager leaving is quite clearly knee-jerk. This shows that there was not a lot of time and consideration taken into the matter and Landsdown did not give himself a few days to think on it. He acted decisively and did either what he thought was right, what was the least time consuming or what was the cheapest, or possible a balance of all three.

If you read my post properly I said it's far too early to make a judgement on Millen and we can't pass him off yet, or did you conveiniently miss that part? So did you honestly think Millen's appointment was the best appointment for this fotoball club at the time?

[Robbored]

We are playing worse not better Robbo - can you honestly see improvement since Milwall?

No, not yet. Yet being the crucial word.

We have to give Millen time, especially so after the disruption of the Coppell saga.

And.....City didn't really have a proper pre-season with all the changes and injuries inhibiting things. Its almost as if these early league fixture are pre-season.

[Ron]

Bollocks. Are you honestly telling me that you believe we would have appointed Millen if Coppell was not available? Why? Because when Coppell f ** ked off and Millen was appointed Landsdown conveniently stated that he's always been second in line.

Coppell said while still here on Player that if Millen had wanted the job he would have stood aside and let him have it, Millen was happy to work alongside Coppell though. That smells an awful lot like Millen being second in line.

Landsdown offered vocal support to Millen and rightly so, but this doesn't confirm anything, and the fact Landsdown stated we had such a high amount of itnerest makes me believe Millen would not have been appointed, especially after Tinnion's failings.

So because we appointed Tinnion and it didn't work out we'll never go down that route again? There's plenty of former players turned caretaker managers who've had success with their clubs after a while on the coaching staff. Funnily enough one of them is Sean O'Driscoll. Why shouldn't Millen have been appointed? His run as caretaker was more than successful and he knows the players and has worked as part of a successful management team for 5 years now.

Appointing someone as a manager within hours of the previous manager leaving is quite clearly knee-jerk. This shows that there was not a lot of time and consideration taken into the matter and Landsdown did not give himself a few days to think on it. He acted decisively and did either what he thought was right, what was the least time consuming or what was the cheapest, or possible a balance of all three.

Quite obviously the former, if you think Lansdown was looking to save money to appoint a manager after the amount of money he's pumped into this club, as a prudent business man I would have thought it might strike him as just a tad counterproductive towards the common goal, then more fool you. Since Millen had clearly been earmarked beforehand (going by Coppell's statement, but then.. you can't believe anything you hear in football of course) it was an obvious appointment as Lansdown said himself. If he didn't mean what he said he wouldn't have appointed Millen, unless you're insinuating that Lansdown's comment about a high volume of quality applications was bullshit as well. As it happens, with the season having started already, having someone who knew the club and was readily available would have also acted in Millen's favour.

If you read my post properly I said it's far too early to make a judgement on Millen and we can't pass him off yet, or did you conveiniently miss that part? So did you honestly think Millen's appointment was the best appointment for this fotoball club at the time?

I did see that and I'm glad some people aren't overreacting completely just yet. Yes, I think Millen's appointment was as sensible in the circumstances as any other, he ticked the boxes we needed and to write him off at this stage as many have is utterly ridiculous.

[Andy082005]

All based on a slow start to the new season thats not yet 10 games in.

For some one who was so critical of Gary Johnson during his time in charge.....what have you seen in Millen, that says to us that things are going to be any different?? I would love to know your answer on this one

[BrizzleRed]

I think Millen's appointment was a knee-jerk reaction following a huge shock to the system where Coppell's departure is concerned. However, I still think it's too early to be slating Millen and assuming he is not fit for the job. Don't get me wrong, I believe, as I did at the time, that it was the wrong appointment and spending one million on a well respected and talented manager is surely a better investment than spending one million on two hardly prolific strikers. O Driscoll has shown he can find bargains, and is obviously a man that believes very much in building a stable team, who play football the right way.

If the question is would he have been a better investment than Pitman and Stead, then yes in my honest opinion. However, we have Millen, and we have a big squad of players who surely can perform well at this level. Our focus now must be on getting the defence and midfield sorted, and trying to build from there. It will not be a hugely entertaining season and I imagine we're in for some pastings, but it will be a transistional year, and hopefully one that will see us avoid a relegation scrap.

My observations aren't an anti Millen comment, but more an indication of the respect Sean O'Driscoll has achieved within football. I was chatting to some Donny fans in the pub before our game at the Keepmoat this season and I mentioned about their loanee who tore us to shreds at the Gate last season and wondered how they managed to get him. The reply was that they get Prem clubs actually contacting Donny with offers to loan players, because they feel their style of play will help bring on these young players. They also mentioned there may have been one or two in the pipeline as we spoke. Now you could say this was just bull, but these fans were sound and weren't just the sort of kn**heads who continually spout carp, so I reckon what they said could well be true.

Now I know we've managed to get Rose, but will our current style of hoof encourage Prem clubs to fall over each other to loan us their promising youngsters? I very much doubt it, so let's hope this is just part of the bedding in period. Hopefully we don't have to suffer too long though, because frankly, last night I thought our style of football was total $h1t and really painful to watch and completely wasted the talents of the players we had on the pitch.

[Red Robin]

It would have cost us £1m in compensation to sign Sean O'Driscoll as Coppell's replacement - that was the figure Burnley were facing when they looked at poaching him last season.

Instead, we spent exactly that sum on two strikers who haven't scored a goal between them due to the risible lack of creativity in the midfield unit playing behind them.

For a money man, Steve L has shown a staggering lack of foresight on this one. In any football club, the most important individual is the manager and yet we went for a panic signing in less than 24 hours after Copout quit.

The upshot? A total lack of leadership from the top down. We have:

* a chairman who now lives as a tax exile 100s of miles from the club

* a manager with no experience or obvious charisma

* a club captain absent for months due to a self-inflicted injury

* no midfield general (WHY didn't we replace Hartley?)

* no defensive passion (replacing Orr with Hunt was like replacing the life and soul of the party with an undertaker)

* no belief among supporters that we are going to achieve promotion - instead we are already talking about relegation...

In every respect, we are now in a worse position than we were the night GJ left BCFC - sad but true. Even those who hated GJ with a passion would not have advocated ditching him to make Millen his full-time replacement but that is what has happened.

My pick of the managers from the start.

clearly two things i would put my house on if SOD had been given the job.

1, there would have been no copout.

2,We will not be in the same mess on the pitch.

[Monkeh]

dear oh dear, lets look at the problem shall we and thats not completely keith millen's fault he proved in his caretake spell he can manage the club,

the problem is

1. Stewart....worse the Gus Cesar

2. Fontaine.....league one at best

3. Hunt clearly not match fit can't takle or head a football

3. McAllister is to slow and to exposed

4. Skuse can't pass or tackle only in the team and liked because he is from Bristol

5. Elliot hasn't played well for nearly 3 years

6. Maynard take 20 goals out of a team that only scored 50 odd and your going to struggle

What needs to happen, (that keith can control

Change the formation you do not play at home with 3 holding midfielders

Play players in their postions, that means a Right winger on the right wing not up front and a central midfielder in the centre not at right back

[simon uk]

have to agree with the original poster, although Pitman and Stead may turn out to be decent signings. We are in deep trouble but we just seems to be throwing money at strikers and hope that solves everything. It is plainly obvious to the majority of people that we need some quality in the middle of midfield who can get their foot on the ball and play some passes (why we have 3 midfielders who are all being paid a fortune who cant already do this with some degree of competency is another matter), and ideally a decent left back as well. Still, the england team are inept, sport, business, politics and most other things in this country are crap so I dont see why we should expect any different from city, who have a habit of ballsing things up.

[Martyn Hocking]

Coppell said while still here on Player that if Millen had wanted the job he would have stood aside and let him have it, Millen was happy to work alongside Coppell though. That smells an awful lot like Millen being second in line.

No - that smells an awful lot like Coppell didn't really want the job. Millen could never have been second in line for the job if we had bothered to headhunt other candidates instead of putting all our eggs in the basket marked Copout. He had pitifully little experience at this level (or any other) compared with other managers available, such as George Burley.

As for your previous list of reasons why we are going to improve between now and Christmas, putting Maynard number 1 says it all really - Nicky has no chance of playing a single game before the end of the year so unless he's taking over as defensive coach you really are whistling in the wind.

[WellRedPhil]

Coppell said while still here on Player that if Millen had wanted the job he would have stood aside and let him have it, Millen was happy to work alongside Coppell though. That smells an awful lot like Millen being second in line.

So because we appointed Tinnion and it didn't work out we'll never go down that route again? There's plenty of former players turned caretaker managers who've had success with their clubs after a while on the coaching staff. Funnily enough one of them is Sean O'Driscoll. Why shouldn't Millen have been appointed? His run as caretaker was more than successful and he knows the players and has worked as part of a successful management team for 5 years now.

Quite obviously the former, if you think Lansdown was looking to save money to appoint a manager after the amount of money he's pumped into this club, as a prudent business man I would have thought it might strike him as just a tad counterproductive towards the common goal, then more fool you. Since Millen had clearly been earmarked beforehand (going by Coppell's statement, but then.. you can't believe anything you hear in football of course) it was an obvious appointment as Lansdown said himself. If he didn't mean what he said he wouldn't have appointed Millen, unless you're insinuating that Lansdown's comment about a high volume of quality applications was bullshit as well. As it happens, with the season having started already, having someone who knew the club and was readily available would have also acted in Millen's favour.

I did see that and I'm glad some people aren't overreacting completely just yet. Yes, I think Millen's appointment was as sensible in the circumstances as any other, he ticked the boxes we needed and to write him off at this stage as many have is utterly ridiculous.

I do recall Coppell saying that, and if true that would suggest Millen himself would rather act as a second in command rather than as permanent manager. I understand that if you never give someone a chance you will never find any hidden gems, and Reading showed last year with the appointment of Brian McDermott that sometimes these people can be right under your nose. However, Landsdown clearly didn't think Millen was the best man for the job in May, and therefore just a couple of months later, for him to appoint Millen that quickly following Coppell's departure just seemed a rushed decision. I mean think how long he took over it the first time around!

I'm not neccessarily saying Landsdown was sick of putting money into the club, but we were two games into the season and Steve was no doubt looking forward to what he felt would be a decent campaign. So for him to lose Coppell, the talisman in our new chapter at the football club was obviously a massive blow after the praise Coppell had recieved from Landsdown. I believe he wanted a fast appointment, and possibly one with no loose ends, no compensation and one that was generally not a dragged out media affair. Millen quite clearly fits this view, and can easily turn out to be a good manager at this club, but I do think that it was a rushed decision.

I'm not slagging Millen off, and I'm certainly not dismissing his managerial credentials yet. What I'm saying is that I believe it was a rushed decision, made in the face of a huge shock. I am 100% behind Millen and understand this will be a transitional season, but paying one million for a proven manager, who can not only find rough diamonds but can also make them into a team of footballers is often a much better investment than signing a pair of strikers.

[WellRedPhil]

My observations aren't an anti Millen comment, but more an indication of the respect Sean O'Driscoll has achieved within football. I was chatting to some Donny fans in the pub before our game at the Keepmoat this season and I mentioned about their loanee who tore us to shreds at the Gate last season and wondered how they managed to get him. The reply was that they get Prem clubs actually contacting Donny with offers to loan players, because they feel their style of play will help bring on these young players. They also mentioned there may have been one or two in the pipeline as we spoke. Now you could say this was just bull, but these fans were sound and weren't just the sort of kn**heads who continually spout carp, so I reckon what they said could well be true.

Now I know we've managed to get Rose, but will our current style of hoof encourage Prem clubs to fall over each other to loan us their promising youngsters? I very much doubt it, so let's hope this is just part of the bedding in period. Hopefully we don't have to suffer too long though, because frankly, last night I thought our style of football was total $h1t and really painful to watch and completely wasted the talents of the players we had on the pitch.

A very interesting post and one that is very believable. The point you've made about Emmanuel Thomas sounds very likely, as Wenger is the sort of manager who would look at the style of play present at the club he was sending one of his youngsters. It might not be quite the same at other top flight clubs but I'd imagine Wenger in particular is very keen on sending his young players to clubs that pride themselves on passing the ball. When he let Wilshire join Bolton in January last season he stated that since Coyle had joined Bolton they had began to build their attacks around accurate passing and good movement, the two factors most important to Wenger.

[Robbored]

For some one who was so critical of Gary Johnson during his time in charge.....what have you seen in Millen, that says to us that things are going to be any different?? I would love to know your answer on this one

Time.

Johnson served up almost two seasons of shite with no suggestion that he knew how to change things. Two seasons of shite is long enough for anyone.

Millen has had less than 10 league games so far. We don't know yet if he'll know how to improve things as he's only just taken the job. At least give him a chance.

[Nibor]

No - that smells an awful lot like Coppell didn't really want the job. Millen could never have been second in line for the job if we had bothered to headhunt other candidates instead of putting all our eggs in the basket marked Copout. He had pitifully little experience at this level (or any other) compared with other managers available, such as George Burley.

As for your previous list of reasons why we are going to improve between now and Christmas, putting Maynard number 1 says it all really - Nicky has no chance of playing a single game before the end of the year so unless he's taking over as defensive coach you really are whistling in the wind.

The O'Driscoll speculation makes no sense to me. We didn't have time between Coppell quitting and Millen being appointed to have done any sort of negotiation, we've no reason to believe he'd agree to leave Donny at that point in the season and come here either. £1m or £2m compensation is utterly ridiculous. He is not a football player, his club cannot hang on to his registration to force the issue. If SL wanted SoD and had any indication SoD wanted to come here, he'd be here IMO.

I think SL's view was exactly what he said it was. Millen came close last time because we did so well and the only other good candidates were Burley and Coppell. Burley was no longer available when Coppell quit. It would have been a very bad time to be hanging around waiting to hunt out a manager, and if Millen was going to get a chance it was the best possible time for that to happen. Though I do tend to think he made mistakes last night, he needs more time. He, like Coppell, inherited a horribly unbalanced squad and he's made good signings so far as I am concerned. We still need a left back and a replacement for Hartley but I don't think him unaware of that and it was never all going to happen in one window.

I didn't want to appoint Millen in the summer when I felt there were better options, I think doing so after hiring Coppell backfired when the transfer window was shutting soon and no better options were around was not unreasonable and we should not be so quick to write him off.

[Barrs Court Red]

Time.

Johnson served up almost two seasons of shite with no suggestion that he knew how to change things. Two seasons of shite is long enough for anyone.

Millen has had less than 10 league games so far. We don't know yet if he'll know how to improve things as he's only just taken the job. At least give him a chance.

Yet you wanted him out after ten games though.

[Barrs Court Red]

£2m compensation is utterly ridiculous.

But what Doncaster wanted apparently.

[BRISTOL XTC]

[Portland Bill]

Knee-jerk? For ****'s sake, look at the facts. Millen was second in line to the throne when Coppell got the job, and would have got it had Coppell not been appointed,

Coppell stated that if Millen WANTED the job then he would have not taken the managers job in the first place.

[downendcity]

Why the assumption that appointing Millen was a knee jerk reaction?

Millen worked as assistant manager for a number of years, and during that time Sl would have got to know him well - his attitude, character, personality and ability - but would not necessarily have then known how he would cope in the hot seat and under pressure.

When GJ left Millen took the reins at a time when we looked for all the world like a relegation bound team. He would have been under pretty intense pressure and during that time SL would have been able to judge first hand how he managed. It is not unreasonable to assume that during that time KM proved his managerial ability to SL by the way he was able to turn things around.

Coppell's resignation could not have been worse timed. However, as a result of Millen's performance last season why should SL not regard him as the right man for the job? In fact, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that with hindsight SL regretted not offering the job to Millen in the first place.

Don't get me wrong. We are not doing well at the moment, but the upheavel and turmoil the club has gone through these last 6 months is more than I can ever remember. Factor in the crippling injury list , massive turnover in players, let alone managers, and it is little surprise that the team is disjointed and even if O'Driscoll had come in after Coppell we migt be in no better a position.

Coppell met most posters requirement for a "big"name, with proven experience but lok where that got us!. Perhaps instead of looking for the best man for the job, we should be looking for the right man for the job. 5 years ago Gary Johnson was , for many, a disappointing appointment. With hindsight, it was the best appointment we've made for many a year because he was the right man for us at the time. If SL thinks that given the circumstances that Millen is the right man for the job this time around, then I will back his judgement.

Unfortunately for KM he has little time or leeway to find his feet, and needs to start making things happen out on the pitch. I hope he is sucessful.

[Nibor]

But what Doncaster wanted apparently.

I think it highly unlikely we've even asked. That number is about ten times what any tribunal would arrive at, it makes the story quite hard to believe for me.

[Portland Bill]

No, not yet. Yet being the crucial word.

We have to give Millen time, especially so after the disruption of the Coppell saga.

And.....City didn't really have a proper pre-season with all the changes and injuries inhibiting things. Its almost as if these early league fixture are pre-season.

He cant change anything with the squad he has got, why has he signed 2 strikers when everyone can see we needed a playmaker in midfield?

We cant create with Skuse,Cisse and Elliot, there runners not passers.

Skuse on the left last night was exactly the same as Sno out there last season, a total joke.

[downendcity]

I think it highly unlikely we've even asked. That number is about ten times what any tribunal would arrive at, it makes the story quite hard to believe for me.

Trundle wasn't worth £1m when we bought him. Unfortunately Swansea knew we needed a striker badly, having missed out on other targets so just held on until we paid the price they wanted.

Same here. Every club knew that we were 1 week into the season and just lost our manager. Had we approached Donny, or any other club, about the availability of their manager, they would have us over a barrel so would screw us for every penny of compo they could get out of us. Whether it was what the manager was worth is academic..