Sean O'driscoll - The £1m Question

[Guest Old East End Skinhead]

It would have cost us £1m in compensation to sign Sean O'Driscoll as Coppell's replacement - that was the figure Burnley were facing when they looked at poaching him last season.

Instead, we spent exactly that sum on two strikers who haven't scored a goal between them due to the risible lack of creativity in the midfield unit playing behind them.

For a money man, Steve L has shown a staggering lack of foresight on this one. In any football club, the most important individual is the manager and yet we went for a panic signing in less than 24 hours after Copout quit.

The upshot? A total lack of leadership from the top down. We have:

* a chairman who now lives as a tax exile 100s of miles from the club

* a manager with no experience or obvious charisma

* a club captain absent for months due to a self-inflicted injury

* no midfield general (WHY didn't we replace Hartley?)

* no defensive passion (replacing Orr with Hunt was like replacing the life and soul of the party with an undertaker)

* no belief among supporters that we are going to achieve promotion - instead we are already talking about relegation...

In every respect, we are now in a worse position than we were the night GJ left BCFC - sad but true. Even those who hated GJ with a passion would not have advocated ditching him to make Millen his full-time replacement but that is what has happened.

SPOT ON MATE!

WILL LANSDOWN HAVE THE BALLS TO GET RID OF MILLEN BEFORE CHRISTMAS IF OUR CRAP RESULTS CONTINUE ?

NAH, PROBABLY NOT.

[havanatopia]

It would have cost us £1m in compensation to sign Sean O'Driscoll as Coppell's replacement - that was the figure Burnley were facing when they looked at poaching him last season.

Instead, we spent exactly that sum on two strikers who haven't scored a goal between them due to the risible lack of creativity in the midfield unit playing behind them.

For a money man, Steve L has shown a staggering lack of foresight on this one. In any football club, the most important individual is the manager and yet we went for a panic signing in less than 24 hours after Copout quit.

The upshot? A total lack of leadership from the top down. We have:

* a chairman who now lives as a tax exile 100s of miles from the club

* a manager with no experience or obvious charisma

* a club captain absent for months due to a self-inflicted injury

* no midfield general (WHY didn't we replace Hartley?)

* no defensive passion (replacing Orr with Hunt was like replacing the life and soul of the party with an undertaker)

* no belief among supporters that we are going to achieve promotion - instead we are already talking about relegation...

In every respect, we are now in a worse position than we were the night GJ left BCFC - sad but true. Even those who hated GJ with a passion would not have advocated ditching him to make Millen his full-time replacement but that is what has happened.

Given the set of circumstances it is a bit rich to ask our chairman to dip into his pocket to recruit a manager already in employment. The situation we are in is not a good one, we all know that, but KM's appointment was, imo, the right one at the time given the problem we were in. Besides, there are plenty of managers out of the game where no compensation was/is required. We were short up front so i don't think the either or argument is a problem solver either.

I know the daggers are bound to be out for him because so many were not happy in the first place. Blame Copout for that but not SL or Millen, just yet.

[Nibor]

Trundle wasn't worth £1m when we bought him. Unfortunately Swansea knew we needed a striker badly, having missed out on other targets so just held on until we paid the price they wanted.

Yes, I said so at the time. However Swansea held Trundle's registration, that is not true of a manager.

Same here. Every club knew that we were 1 week into the season and just lost our manager. Had we approached Donny, or any other club, about the availability of their manager, they would have us over a barrel so would screw us for every penny of compo they could get out of us. Whether it was what the manager was worth is academic..

Maximum compensation is usually limited to the value of the contract, so £2m is ridiculous in any circumstances. I doubt very much SoD was someone we even asked about when Coppell quit, it doesn't make sense to me from too many angles. Maybe if Coppell had turned us down last season this would have been a possibility but I believe Coppell was very much number one choice and we never looked much beyond that.

[citylad05]

last night's game was the worse game of football i have seen in a long long time. Atmosphere ive seen better in a reserve game. I was in the Williams stand last night on the soft seats nearly falling asleep BUT watching Millen and watching Malkay Makay (Sp) who to be honest shouldnt be much different ok Malkay having bit more Manager experience? even when his team was 2 nil up he was still shouting and making himself seen on the touchline along with Sean Dyche. I remember think it was Adomah down in the box every player from both teams were on the sideline gettin drinks. Malkay was encouraging every single one of them while Millen was stood there THINKING didnt bother talking to one of them. I seen Wigley do more in 5 mins than Millen said or do in 90 mins, We need passion down there...were 2 nil down and have seen worse why not go for it and keep Pitman on and chuck Clarkson up there too. Any way Watford played very well there closing down was exceptional, some promising things from the game Danny Rose looks promising and we only conceded 2 insted of 3, but there our just a few promblems, David James is definetly not one of them the saves he made up to there goal and saves which he done throughout the match was spot on, the scary thing last night has to be Damion Stewart and Nicky Hunt and possibly Skuse out of position. Theres players out there like Danny Shittu and Jay Demerit who could bolster our defence if Palace could get Anthony Gardner and Barnsley getting Garry O'Connor then we can get better players too..still only 6 games in if were still the same state of mind and position in maximum 10 games time i will be worrying alot more. COME ON YOU REDS

[Barrs Court Red]

I think it highly unlikely we've even asked. That number is about ten times what any tribunal would arrive at, it makes the story quite hard to believe for me.

You really think City wouldn't have had a conversation about one of the brightest managerial prospects at this level? Righto.

What Doncaster may or may not have quoted is just that, a quote.

[CliftonCliff]

SPOT ON MATE!

WILL LANSDOWN HAVE THE BALLS TO GET RID OF MILLEN BEFORE CHRISTMAS IF OUR CRAP RESULTS CONTINUE ?

NAH, PROBABLY NOT.

Oh yes he will.

Don't confuse what SL says publicly with what he may think in private. And don't think someone who's achieved what he has in life has done it without possessing a ruthless streak. He appointed Tinnion. He sacked Tinnion. He appointed GJ. He sacked GJ. (He might have made it look like a mutual decision, to allow Gary to leave with dignity intact in gratitude for what he'd accomplished at the club, but don't be taken in by that).

The point at which SL begins to think seriously that KM could take us down if allowed to continue in the job - if that moment arrives - will be the point at which he removes him. We have not reached that point yet, or anywhere remotely near it, as appalling as last night may have been.

Nibor is one of the few people talking sense here. The rest is the usual near-hysterical over-reaction we are accustomed to seeing when something bad happens. Given the exact circumstances existing at the stage at which Millen was appointed, which could not have been forseen, it made perfectly good sense to promote the current assistant manager. We'd had enough upheaval already, needed continuity and we'd probably have struggled to appoint another good candidate at that time of the season. If it works out, fine - and it's ridiculously early to say whether it will or not, as Robbo has also argued. If it doesn't, he'll be gone, simple as that, because that's football.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Some of us have suddenly developed 20:20 vision in that department. Anyone can say they'd have done things differently after something's already happened. If you're think you're equally good at predicting what's coming next as you are at saying what should have happened several weeks ago, I would recommend getting down the bookies pronto. (And put a few quid on for me while you're at it). Otherwise, it would be better for all concerned if prophecies of doom were kept for when they can be justified, which in my opinion will not be before Christmas. If we're still in the bottom three then, it'll be time to panic - and just wait and see if SL bottles it if that happens. He won't. (And that I would be prepared to put money on).

[Martyn Hocking]

It's not a question of bottle Cliff - it's a question of judgement. There was pretty much universal surprise on here that KM got a 3-year deal. Many if not most said on the day he was appointed that he should have been made caretaker manager to give time to explore all options.

If SL sacked Millen at Christmas I wouldn't admire his bottle, I would seriously question his ability to pick a decent manager.

[CliftonCliff]

It's not a question of bottle Cliff - it's a question of judgement. There was pretty much universal surprise on here that KM got a 3-year deal. Many if not most said on the day he was appointed that he should have been made caretaker manager to give time to explore all options.

If SL sacked Millen at Christmas I wouldn't admire his bottle, I would seriously question his ability to pick a decent manager.

With respect, Martyn, that's a rather different point to the ones I was responding to, and one I can accept. Yes, I also pondered the length of contract at the time and you can argue the pro's and con's. Maybe it's SL's way of making a tangible gesture of confidence in the guy, given that he was, at the most, second best choice after Coppell. (I personally think SL felt he couldn't go down the caretaker route again, given KM had done that with some distinction already. Either he was worthy of the job, or he wasn't. SL made that call).

I don't know exactly what the contractual terms are and I don't suppose anyone else does either, but essentially it comes down to money, doesn't it? If it backfires and Millen gets the push, it will cost. We all know whose pocket that will come out of. SL in that sense is backing his own judgement and will no doubt foot the bill if he has to admit he got it wrong. My point is, I suppose, that none of knows yet whether he did get it wrong because Christmas (if that is to be our yardstick) is still over three months away, but some people are talking as if they do already know the outcome and, on that basis, are arguing that he should have appointed someone else because we've made a bad start and were, by common consent, absolutely bloody appalling last night . Will they still be saying that, though, if he's got us to, say, tenth in the table by the end of December?

Steve's ability to pick a decent manager, as you put it, can always be open to debate, but the bottom line for me here would be that he appointed GJ, like him or not (and I didn't, much, as it happens) and we're in the CCC as a result. I think it's a bit early, to put it mildly, for an inquest on Millen. We haven't had the death yet.

[BITW]

Time.

Johnson served up almost two seasons of shite with no suggestion that he knew how to change things. Two seasons of shite is long enough for anyone.

Millen has had less than 10 league games so far. We don't know yet if he'll know how to improve things as he's only just taken the job. At least give him a chance.

Out of interest, did you gave GJ 10 games before starting "that" thread?

I suspect not.

[Martyn Hocking]

Ok guys - lots of interesting stuff in your responses and as ever we can agree to disagree where necessary.

My gut feel is that Millen is not a natural leader and would have been a more effective number two to someone like O'Driscoll

if we wanted continuity when Coppell left.

I fear we have taken a big step backwards as a club in the last few weeks and are now more likely to leave the Championship by the back door than the front one. Time will tell.

[Robbored]

Out of interest, did you gave GJ 10 games before starting "that" thread?

I suspect not.

You suspect wrongly. Johnson had been in charge for several months and many games before 'that' thread.

[Nibor]

You really think City wouldn't have had a conversation about one of the brightest managerial prospects at this level? Righto.

Not between Coppell quitting and Millen being appointed, no, and I'd be surprised if they did much more than write his name on a list in the summer given that Coppell was number one from the get go. I don't believe your rumour sorry.

[Barrs Court Red]

Who said anything about post Coppell? During the period of what, a month that the search for a manager went on, you reckon all sl did was write a list and only sound out Coppells availability........

[Nibor]

Who said anything about post Coppell? During the period of what, a month that the search for a manager went on, you reckon all sl did was write a list and only sound out Coppells availability........

The original poster, to whom you replied? I don't think SL saw beyond Coppell and Burley particularly when they were free agents and SoD isn't and has no Prem experience either.

[red badger]

Steve's ability to pick a decent manager, as you put it, can always be open to debate, but the bottom line for me here would be that he appointed GJ, like him or not (and I didn't, much, as it happens) and we're in the CCC as a result. I think it's a bit early, to put it mildly, for an inquest on Millen. We haven't had the death yet.

Steve's ability to pick a decent manager is most certainly open to debate now...Tinnion, Coppell...awful choices. (And whilst it's fair to say we all rejoiced in Coppell we didn't meet the guy or have the opportunity to question his commitment. Steve did and clearly didn't probe deeply enough.)

I fear for Millen. Last night was shockingly bad. Clueless. He wouldn't be managing any other club at this level. Let's hope Saturday is better.

But what I can't follow is the suggestion that GJ was a poor choice. I can't tell you how delighted I was when I heard he'd got the job. A proven leader, a winner, a brilliant publicist. A man who put our club back on the map as he'd put Yeovil there. Precisely the man for the job. A job he did rather brilliantly for a while. Never a better time in the past 30 years following the club...few better in the club's history.

Despite being a GJ happy clapper through thick and thin I believed he needed to go at the end - and he knew it. But let's not rewrite history. The guy was one of the very best managers we've had.

Oh for a bit of his charisma now.

Fair play for the postscript...

"he beheld the City and wept"...never truer words spoken...

[Barrs Court Red]

The original poster, to whom you replied? I don't think SL saw beyond Coppell and Burley particularly when they were free agents and SoD isn't and has no Prem experience either.

It didn't matter if it was post GJ or post Coppell, hence why there was no need to post such a trivial detail given the short space of time between to the two.

I'm sure you can find better uses for your time than to pick up on pointless details, when in this case it seems nothing came of any possible conversation betwen the clubs.

Like I said, if you believe the net was cast to such a shallow level (although you've now upped it to people on a free that have Premier League experiance) that's up to you.

[Ron]

The O'Driscoll speculation makes no sense to me. We didn't have time between Coppell quitting and Millen being appointed to have done any sort of negotiation, we've no reason to believe he'd agree to leave Donny at that point in the season and come here either. £1m or £2m compensation is utterly ridiculous. He is not a football player, his club cannot hang on to his registration to force the issue. If SL wanted SoD and had any indication SoD wanted to come here, he'd be here IMO.

I think SL's view was exactly what he said it was. Millen came close last time because we did so well and the only other good candidates were Burley and Coppell. Burley was no longer available when Coppell quit. It would have been a very bad time to be hanging around waiting to hunt out a manager, and if Millen was going to get a chance it was the best possible time for that to happen. Though I do tend to think he made mistakes last night, he needs more time. He, like Coppell, inherited a horribly unbalanced squad and he's made good signings so far as I am concerned. We still need a left back and a replacement for Hartley but I don't think him unaware of that and it was never all going to happen in one window.

I didn't want to appoint Millen in the summer when I felt there were better options, I think doing so after hiring Coppell backfired when the transfer window was shutting soon and no better options were around was not unreasonable and we should not be so quick to write him off.

Exactly what i'm trying to say but more eloquently put. Apologies for double post.. or not, it didn't go through this is better anyway.

[Keith_Lemon]

I have had a strange dream and the same feeling that the next manager we appoint will be Eddie Howe.

[BITW]

I have had a strange dream and the same feeling that the next manager we appoint will be Eddie Howe.

I had a similar dream but in mine it was Jose Mourinho.