Preston Game Huge

[SJC]

Sorry SJC but you are being overly harsh on Millen. We didn't have a pre-season. Approx 75% of our first team players were injured for much of it. Our most valuable player is still out till next year. We had the upheavel of Coppell leaving.

I think by and large Millen has coped very well with the whole situation.

Now we are seeing what he can do with a fully fit squad and some TIME. I bet most of those managers you mention you'd have rather have had wouldn't have done a better job, thus far.

Refreshing to see someone disagree without the need for me to fashion a watermelon crash helmet first! :tongue:

I agree pre-season was very interrupted and we had extensive injury problems. However I do question how much upheaval there was on Coppell's departure.

After the appointment was announced he (Coppell) announced he wouldnt have any influence until the summer at which point he would evaluate things. He obviously had an input regarding incoming signings but , despite some suspect performances notably from Hunt and Stewart, all incomings were far from poor and went some way to addressing an area of need - certainly this is true of Hunt and to a lesser extent Stewart.

I do feel that after the 'conversation' on this thread I have been thrust into the/a anti-Millen brigade which simply isnt true.

It is true that I was disappointed when he was given the job, however since then I am merely commenting on what I have seen, which {in my opinion} has been an unacceptably poor start and collection of lacklustre performances prior to Reading.

Even given time, which of course every new manager needs, I feel Millen, overlooking the fact that he already had an indepth knowledge of the squad and had the tail end of last season to devise a system, has had a poor start to his first full time spell.

As I keep reiterating, im sure rather frustratingly, I dont think ive said Millen should be sacked at any point and im delighted with our recent upturn in form.

[SJC]

wow. all those words and nothing new added. well done.

try answering more briefly and try to make a point rather than repeating yourself but with more words than you used last time.

*sigh*

Im replying to the things you ask or accuse me of.

[...]

This thread has confused the hell out of me.

Why is the Preston game huge?

League rules clearly state the match shall consist of two halves, each lasting 45 minutes.

Just how big is the game going to be / why would the referee allow a bigger game?

Someone explain

Kind regards

Mr T F Rennie

[SC_Red]

As I keep reiterating, im sure rather frustratingly, I dont think ive said Millen should be sacked

I said a couple of weeks ago that, in essence, Millen had already lost his job.

[SJC]

Right. Please allow me to grab a beer and take a deep breath.

I said a couple of weeks ago that he had basically already lost his job because we were bottom of the table and had been, on the whole, playing poorly and defending shambolically. Added to that was the fact we were about to play Reading, QPR, M'boro, Leeds and Swansea, from my perspective there was very little light at the end of the tunnel.

Absolute congratulations to Keith Millen and the Bristol City squad for the sudden turnaround in performance, I have given both the manager and players credit on various threads.

To the best of my memory I have not once said he should be sacked.

My reasonning for all of this is we were/are in such a mire that even with a solid run, such as we are seeing, if we now lose three of the next four or five, which considering when I made the comments we'd won once in eleven(?) certainly wasnt out of the question, we would still be in very serious trouble.

Aside from the 15th or lower at Xmas comment, I seem to remember saying that the back to back home fixtures versus Leicester and Sheffield United would be make or break for Millen's City career.

Just because I said he had all but lost his job does not mean I was calling for his head.

I dont understand why that is so difficult to understand.

Why dont you vent your abudant pent up anger on someone who has spent the previous two, three, four weeks saying sack the manager, there are plenty on here of which I am not one, instead of someone who has spoken their opinion about the unavoidably negative position we are/were in.

[...]

Why can't everyone just be friends?

[Robbored]

I said a couple of weeks ago that he had basically already lost his job because we were bottom of the table and had been, on the whole, playing poorly and defending shambolically. Added to that was the fact we were about to play Reading, QPR, M'boro, Leeds and Swansea, from my perspective there was very little light at the end of the tunnel.

Absolute congratulations to Keith Millen and the Bristol City squad for the sudden turnaround in performance, I have given both the manager and players credit on various threads.

You were basing your 'no light at the end of the tunnel' on previous poor results and no-one (apart from SC_Red) would have a problem with that perspective. No doubt many fans thought the same.

Although an understandable view you and others failed to take in consideration all the problems Millen had inherited, most of which are highlighted earlier in this thread and were hastly imo in forming such a negative view.

Even after Norwich thumped us at AG I always felt Millen would turn things around, which is something I never felt in Johnson's last two seasons.

7 points from 9 is a starting platform and I truly think that that things will get better from here on in. Its often said that teams hit a bad spell at some stage of the season. It could be said that City have had thiers already.

[SC_Red]

Right. Please allow me to grab a beer and take a deep breath.

I said a couple of weeks ago that he had basically already lost his job because we were bottom of the table and had been, on the whole, playing poorly and defending shambolically. Added to that was the fact we were about to play Reading, QPR, M'boro, Leeds and Swansea, from my perspective there was very little light at the end of the tunnel.

Absolute congratulations to Keith Millen and the Bristol City squad for the sudden turnaround in performance, I have given both the manager and players credit on various threads.

To the best of my memory I have not once said he should be sacked.

My reasonning for all of this is we were/are in such a mire that even with a solid run, such as we are seeing, if we now lose three of the next four or five, which considering when I made the comments we'd won once in eleven(?) certainly wasnt out of the question, we would still be in very serious trouble.

Aside from the 15th or lower at Xmas comment, I seem to remember saying that the back to back home fixtures versus Leicester and Sheffield United would be make or break for Millen's City career.

Just because I said he had all but lost his job does not mean I was calling for his head.

I dont understand why that is so difficult to understand.

Why dont you vent your abudant pent up anger on someone who has spent the previous two, three, four weeks saying sack the manager, there are plenty on here of which I am not one, instead of someone who has spoken their opinion about the unavoidably negative position we are/were in.

I know. You dont want him sacked. You just think theres no point employing him anymore because he's already lost his job. given you'd sack a manager who's 7 points off the play offs at xmas you may aswell sack him now as thats a ridiculous pressure to put on a manager of this club.

I'm not angry. Just pointing out the hypocrasy of your points and laughing at the lengthy replies you keep making in the hope people will think a lot of words = a good post.

[SJC]

I know. You dont want him sacked. You just think theres no point employing him anymore because he's already lost his job. given you'd sack a manager who's 7 points off the play offs at xmas you may aswell sack him now as thats a ridiculous pressure to put on a manager of this club.

I'm not angry. Just pointing out the hypocrasy of your points and laughing at the lengthy replies you keep making in the hope people will think a lot of words = a good post.

15th or lower at Xmas was my way of representing 'struggling'.

Lots of words dont equal good post, you've either raised questions or accused/made assumptions of me, which ive answered to the best of my ability.

Im not being hypocritical.

Concise enough?

[InCider]

I certainly didnt expect promotion or even play-offs, indeed under Coppell I felt this season would see a late play-off charge, but 15th or lower at Xmas and with relegation not out of the question, with potential off field reprocussions, simply wasnt acceptable. Being bottom after 12 games was unthinkable.

What I don't understand is that you expected a late play-off charge under Coppell, yet if Millen's team are 15th at Xmas you would want him sacked. Who can say that the team in 15th position at Xmas won't be pushing for a play-off place round May time? Reading were just outside the relegation zone (20th) at Xmas and were pushing for a play-off place in May. With the bad start we've had, 15th at Xmas wouldn't be a disaster and I also think that you are seriously underestimating the turmoil that Coppell's departure caused.

[SC_Red]

15th or lower at Xmas was my way of representing 'struggling'.

Lots of words dont equal good post, you've either raised questions or accused/made assumptions of me, which ive answered to the best of my ability.

Im not being hypocritical.

Concise enough?

based on last season 7 points off the playoffs with half a season left = struggling then.

does the next manager get 23 games too? and the next, and the next?

you are being hypocritical. Your telling people Millen is dead in the water but saying he shouldnt be sacked.

[SJC]

What I don't understand is that you expected a late play-off charge under Coppell, yet if Millen's team are 15th at Xmas you would want him sacked. Who can say that the team in 15th position at Xmas won't be pushing for a play-off place round May time? Reading were just outside the relegation zone (20th) at Xmas and were pushing for a play-off place in May. With the bad start we've had, 15th at Xmas wouldn't be a disaster and I also think that you are seriously underestimating the turmoil that Coppell's departure caused.

I think the difference, from my point of view, is track record.

Coppell has been there and done it, he was, at least it appeared, a truly inspired appointment.

Coppell, like Johnson, have the track record to show they are successful and can get results. Millen, and clearly this is no fault of his own, does not.

15th or lower at Xmas would see us with a poor/average return with an unproven manager at the helm.

I think, and cleary this is merely my opinion, you have to have more trust, belief and faith in someone like Coppell.

Millen is not equal to Coppell, they are different propositions.

EDIT: I may well be underestimating the mess he inherited, it clearly wasnt a desirable position to inherit. But given how long he'd been at the club id expect him to hit the ground running, something that I dont think we did.

[SJC]

based on last season 7 points off the playoffs with half a season left = struggling then.

does the next manager get 23 games too? and the next, and the next?

you are being hypocritical. Your telling people Millen is dead in the water but saying he shouldnt be sacked.

In the Millen poll recently answered 'not yet', which in itself is a silly answer but it was the one that best summed up my position.

In my opinion it was too soon to pull the plug but the writing was/is on the wall.

15th or lower for the squad that we have would be a worry for me. Perhaps I was wrong and should have said 18th or lower as that would more accurately convey what I was trying to, which was simply a club which was struggling.

I felt, and still feel, that Millen is up against it to forge a prolonged career as Bristol City manager after a start which I think, and this is a question along with a statement, all would agree, problems or no problems, was poor.

[...]

PLEASE, stop this constant bickering now!

Can't you both see that your anger is being transmitted to me, the children, and the animals?

Think of someone other than yourself, for once, please, I beg you.

I ..... can...t .......... stand the constant shouting and arguing anymore.

I mean it. I am going to take the children and the dog, and you won't see us ever again, unless you stop arguing about Keith Millen.

:sign09:

Don't let Keith Millen come between us like this.

I've got to go and see to them now: LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE! The children have bitten the dog and the dog is crying his eyes out.

You selfish B********DS.

[WhistleHappy]

So what are our thoughts re: Preston then? ....

I think the points at stake are no more & no lessimportant than for any other game - but the timing of this home game makes the Preston match very important ..

Its at home, we've had a torrid season at AG so far (thank God things are now looking up!).... another good performance & result at AG is just whats required to get a buzz going again... for the confidence of fans & players alike ... not to mention Keith Millen (he deserves some credit now - afterall he has endured some very trying times since taking over) - a good win against Preston will see big smiles & happy faces all around.

So for reasons of timing & our recent improvement Bristol City v Preston IS a VIP game for us..

[Robbored]

I felt, and still feel, that Millen is up against it to forge a prolonged career as Bristol City manager after a start which I think, and this is a question along with a statement, all would agree, problems or no problems, was poor.

So you would say the thing about the vastly experienced Roy Hodgson at Liverpool?

[InCider]

I think the difference, from my point of view, is track record.

Coppell has been there and done it, he was, at least it appeared, a truly inspired appointment.

Coppell, like Johnson, have the track record to show they are successful and can get results. Millen, and clearly this is no fault of his own, does not.

15th or lower at Xmas would see us with a poor/average return with an unproven manager at the helm.

I think, and cleary this is merely my opinion, you have to have more trust, belief and faith in someone like Coppell.

Millen is not equal to Coppell, they are different propositions.

Di Matteo and Chris Hughton had no previous experience and they didn't fare too badly in the Championship last year. I likewise was delighted when the appointment of Coppell was announced, but it didn't work out. Millen was given the job. Whether you agree with that decision or not, it is just impractical to change manager every few weeks. We need stability and Millen is providing it. I'm happy to giive Millen time to turn things around. It looks like that may be happening. As long as he takes us to safety, I can't see any reason for Millen being sacked. We can then look at things in the summer. My feeling is that we'll be mid-table or higher by that time and that he will stay on as manager.

[SJC]

Re: Robbored,

Yes absolutely.

I think he is very much up against it to form a career at Liverpool.

As I said a la Coppell, Hodgson obviously has the track record for reassurance which may ensure he is given the benefit of the doubt while questions, through worry and uncertainty, are more quickly raised in cases like Millen's.

[Economou]

You were basing your 'no light at the end of the tunnel' on previous poor results and no-one (apart from SC_Red) would have a problem with that perspective. No doubt many fans thought the same.

Although an understandable view you and others failed to take in consideration all the problems Millen had inherited, most of which are highlighted earlier in this thread and were hastly imo in forming such a negative view.

Even after Norwich thumped us at AG I always felt Millen would turn things around, which is something I never felt in Johnson's last two seasons.

7 points from 9 is a starting platform and I truly think that that things will get better from here on in. Its often said that teams hit a bad spell at some stage of the season. It could be said that City have had thiers already.

I know you couldn't stand Gary Johnson but this comment in particular always riles me, please let me know what needed turning round the season before last. I seem to remember we finished disappointingly, mainly due to the ridiculous amount of late goals, but still ended up a respectable 10th.

It's possible to argue that things needed turning round from Xmas onwards last season but to flippantly also write off the whole of the previous season, which you constantly do, is shameful .

[WhistleHappy]

ahem..... So what are our thoughts re: Preston then? ....

[Robbored]

I think he is very much up against it to form a career at Liverpool.

As I said a la Coppell, Hodgson obviously has the track record for reassurance which may ensure he is given the benefit of the doubt while questions, through worry and uncertainty, are more quickly raised in cases like Millen's.

I think I'm right in saying that Danny Wilson took Barnsley into the PL when vastly inexperienced. As already pointed out both Houghton and Di Matteo did very well last with low levels of experience.

You seem to have added poor early results to inexperience and come up the manager isn't or won't be up to the job.

A premature view imo.

[InCider]

ahem..... So what are our thoughts re: Preston then? ....

Same team as Saturday. 2-0 win to City. Out of the relegation places. Now, back to Millen ...

[WellRedPhil]

It is an important game, and a win will be hugely significant, however following a return of 7 points in 3 games it is not quite as important as it seemed when glancing at the fixture list following the Cardiff defeat. Victory against Preston would be a huge boost, and the longer we keep up this unbeaten run the better, as it will have a very positive effect on confidence and morale.

P.S Loving the argument gents, this really has been a fantastic read.

[SC_Red]

Re: Robbored,

Yes absolutely.

I think he is very much up against it to form a career at Liverpool.

As I said a la Coppell, Hodgson obviously has the track record for reassurance which may ensure he is given the benefit of the doubt while questions, through worry and uncertainty, are more quickly raised in cases like Millen's.

by people like you with no patience.

[SJC]

You seem to have added poor early results to inexperience and come up the manager isn't or won't be up to the job.

It is my belief that our results were so poor Millen was walking a tightrope in an incredibly strong breeze.

He could go on to lead us to promotion, manage England etc, that doesnt mean people were wrong to question him at the time, with the evidence available.

[Kid in the Riot]

It is my belief that our results were so poor Millen was walking a tightrope in an incredibly strong breeze.

He could go on to lead us to promotion, manage England etc, that doesnt mean people were wrong to question him at the time, with the evidence available.

it just seems that a lot of people did not give enough weight to our pre-season woes.

and in response to your earlier reply to me, Hunt and Stewart were AWFUL panic buys by Coppell and will go down as a couple of the biggest wastes of money BCFC have ever spent. We need to get rid of them both asap but unfortunately it won't be easy.

Compare those two clowns to Millen's recruits - Rose, Caulker, Stead - all of whom look absolute quality

[SJC]

by people like you with no patience.

On the most recent Millen poll I can see, which came after the Norwich loss, 364 individuals (70.13%) said Millen should be fired.

94 individuals (18.11%), myself included, voted 'not yet' which as ive mentioned before is a silly statement but was one that best summed up my belief, which was it was too soon to condemn him but it appears that the situation is heading toward an inevitable outcome - clearly the other 93 may have taken a different interpretation on 'not yet.'

Therefore I was one of only 155 people (29.86%, less than a third) who wouldnt have given Millen his marching orders.

From the top of my head, after Cardiff, I retained that stance as I felt there was absolutely no point in expecting him to get a result away at one of the leagues best teams.

So as we have established im certainly not a Millen hater, nor, in comparison to others who use this forum, am I 'knee jerk' - if that is a fair classification for 70% who had seen there team hit rock bottom with little sign of hope, I can only conclude that you have either taken a personal disliking to me having never met me, or you do not like the fact that ive wrote some negative things which were, in my opinion, balanced and entirely justified.

Either way, it would be nice if you could grasp the facts and drop the confrontational, rude, aggressive rubbish.

[SJC]

it just seems that a lot of people did not give enough weight to our pre-season woes.

and in response to your earlier reply to me, Hunt and Stewart were AWFUL panic buys by Coppell and will go down as a couple of the biggest wastes of money BCFC have ever spent. We need to get rid of them both asap but unfortunately it won't be easy.

Compare those two clowns to Millen's recruits - Rose, Caulker, Stead - all of whom look absolute quality

I agree Rose, Caulker and Stead are a million miles the better recruits than Hunt and Stewart.

However, and I do agree that Hunt in particular was poor at the start of the season, I do wonder how fit Hunt was during that spell. I remember getting to the Millwall game being genuinely shocked that Hunt was playing. If I recall rightly we were told he was at least at couple of weeks away, but he had made a miraculous recovery.

I think Stewart has something to offer too. He did make some mistakes but a QPR's fan view on signing suggested, despite his physique, he plays best next to a ball winner, something I dont think he ever did as he was paired with Fontaine throughout I think.

Both Hunt and Stewart played in one of only two clean sheets this season, away at S****horpe, and whilst that game could have been different I personally think it's too soon to write either off.

In regards to Rose and Caulker, and I guess this is inevitable, it must be wondered how much sway Wigley held in those deals.

[SJC]

Double post.

[jfkerton]

Yes, because Hunt wasn't rushed back into the squad when he was injured, by his own admission i might add. When he gets another run in the team he will prove all his doubters wrong. I don't know if i can say the same for Stewart though.