Winning Ugly

[marshy]

Before anyone comes on here and complains about how dire the first half was, just remember that Millen came out earlier in the week and said that City needed to find a way of winning at AG. Needs must as they say.

He obviously tried a different system today of 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 if you like and it simply didn't work. He reverted to a traditional 4-4-2 second half and went on to win the game. Good to see him learning on the job.

The second half was a half decent performance. I liked the look of Pitman who chased and harried almost as well as Stead. Well taken goal as well. After they conceded I though Leicester lost the plot and started misplacing passes and eventually resorted to lumping it up the pitch.

Clarkson's spectacular lob for the second goal was the icing on the cake and takes us nicely upto 20th place.

A few are saying it was the slicing on the cake !

[SC_Red]

Johnson's 'grinding out results' was taking City down right upto and including the Argyle defeat prior to his exit. He set up his teams not to lose home and away and because of that City lacked flair. Take away or even halve Maynards 20 goals and City would have been in the relegation battle.

Millen ground out a result today because of City's fragile league position and despite that he still sets up with two wingers every game.

I've said before that when City are well above the drop zone Millen will produce far more attacking displays.

I'll let you know when that happens, just in case your pre-occupied tuning in to Radio Cambridgeshire.

takeaway a lot of the goals we scored and we'd of been in a worse position?

thanks for that Einstein.

No. your going to tell me when the result doesnt matter. Try to keep up. Not easy when your 3 stone overweight I know but give it a go.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

We will see.

The Blades have won thier last two games and are 2 points above City. It will be another tight game but two back to wins move any club way up the table. Even more motivation should it be required.

I expect Millen to go 4-4-2 and will be Pitman in for Stead if Stead's ankle injury keeps him out.

Ah I get this, not as confident you are letting on then.

[Mr Popodopolous]

When your down near the bottom

The only thing that matters is the result END OF

Lets get into mid table and safe then start thinking about "nice" football

untill then lets just win

This.

[garlicbread]

I never made the game today and i rarley agree with you but i do today! A win is a win when your in our posistion and it sounds like he had a plan b today which worked.

Yes

End of story. Well done keith Millen and BCFC

[Jordan Tansley]

takeaway a lot of the goals we scored and we'd of been in a worse position?

thanks for that Einstein.

No. your going to tell me when the result doesnt matter. Try to keep up. Not easy when your 3 stone overweight I know but give it a go.

Now that is the single most pathetic post I've ever seen. You do realise you're now making people feel sorry for robbo and ruining all the "hard work" you've done to show him up?

If you're not intelligent enough to post something that doesn't resort to personal insults like that then please go away, you personally are creating a negative, aggressive and tedius atmosphere on this forum and you are spoiling it for everyone now.

[luke_bristol]

takeaway a lot of the goals we scored and we'd of been in a worse position?

thanks for that Einstein.

No. your going to tell me when the result doesnt matter. Try to keep up. Not easy when your 3 stone overweight I know but give it a go.

what is wrong with you...

[hippy273]

Before anyone comes on here and complains about how dire the first half was, just remember that Millen came out earlier in the week and said that City needed to find a way of winning at AG. Needs must as they say.

He obviously tried a different system today of 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 if you like and it simply didn't work. He reverted to a traditional 4-4-2 second half and went on to win the game. Good to see him learning on the job.

The second half was a half decent performance. I liked the look of Pitman who chased and harried almost as well as Stead. Well taken goal as well. After they conceded I though Leicester lost the plot and started misplacing passes and eventually resorted to lumping it up the pitch.

Clarkson's spectacular lob for the second goal was the icing on the cake and takes us nicely upto 20th place.

Bottom line is, get it right first time or don't get it right at all. This could have gone horribly wrong for us we were only lucky Millen learnt from what he was doing. Next time we could have been out of this in the first half

[Donald]

takeaway a lot of the goals we scored and we'd of been in a worse position?

thanks for that Einstein.

No. your going to tell me when the result doesnt matter. Try to keep up. Not easy when your 3 stone overweight I know but give it a go.

Nothing more pathetic that posts like this.

Good thread rob, unfortunately some people our more interested in having a pop at you than making a single valid post.

Prior to Sc_red arrival rob would get universally slated, Now people have sympathy as any thread gets hijacked by personal attacks based on comments 3/4 years......pathetic

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Nothing more pathetic that posts like this.

Good thread rob, unfortunately some people our more interested in having a pop at you than making a single valid post.

Prior to Sc_red arrival rob would get universally slated, Now people have sympathy as any thread gets hijacked by personal attacks based on comments 3/4 years......pathetic

Millen got lucky yesterday, Millen has admitted as much himself, pretty much everybody bar RR accepts that. Whilst applauding the decision to change things at half time, please don't turn it into a Millen a tactical genius thread.

Yesterday could prove to be the real defining point of our season so far, as long as Millen learns from yesterday and at least at home we play with a more attacking policy and actually set up to win the game. Millen got lucky and probably about time we had that sort of luck, it's how he reacts to that huge slice of luck that will not only define our season but go a long way to defining Millen as a manager.

Yes Sheff Utd are on a reasonable run at the moment, but they look worse than us at the back.

[SC_Red]

Now that is the single most pathetic post I've ever seen. You do realise you're now making people feel sorry for robbo and ruining all the "hard work" you've done to show him up?

If you're not intelligent enough to post something that doesn't resort to personal insults like that then please go away, you personally are creating a negative, aggressive and tedius atmosphere on this forum and you are spoiling it for everyone now.

worse than calling someone you dont know a nasty piece of work?

maybe so in your view but not in mine.

[Jordan Tansley]

worse than calling someone you dont know a nasty piece of work?

maybe so in your view but not in mine.

I've not said I agree with anything robbored has said, infact I think he talks a load of garb half the time. You're missing my point.

You personally are a) making this forum tedius, aggressive and dull with this relentless barrage of personal insults, aggressive posts and what can only be described as a stalkerish obsession with Alan's postings.

What seems to have escaped your attention is that you've now surpassed much of what Alan has said about GJ as he atleast only slagged off his management style! If anything I see GJ being a nasty price of work as a positive thing, Sir Alex is a horrible self righteous bastard, but that's helped him become the most successful manager in two generations!

B) you're making people feel sorry for Alan. Nobody on here will forget his crusade against GJ, but we don't need your "witty" posts to remind us of it. If anything you're turning him into a victim on here, which completely goes against your agenda.

Its boring now, you've made your point. I ask politely that you start posting about Bristol City Football Club and not Robbored and GJ... Or bugger off back to under the Supporters Club themed rock from where you came.

[marshy]

takeaway a lot of the goals we scored and we'd of been in a worse position?

thanks for that Einstein.

No. your going to tell me when the result doesnt matter. Try to keep up. Not easy when your 3 stone overweight I know but give it a go.

'you're'. Short for 'you are', with the apostrophe indicating that the letter 'a' is not present. If you're going to launch a personal attack at least write your native language correctly.

[SC_Red]

I've not said I agree with anything robbored has said, infact I think he talks a load of garb half the time. You're missing my point.

You personally are a) making this forum tedius, aggressive and dull with this relentless barrage of personal insults, aggressive posts and what can only be described as a stalkerish obsession with Alan's postings.

What seems to have escaped your attention is that you've now surpassed much of what Alan has said about GJ as he atleast only slagged off his management style! If anything I see GJ being a nasty price of work as a positive thing, Sir Alex is a horrible self righteous bastard, but that's helped him become the most successful manager in two generations!

B) you're making people feel sorry for Alan. Nobody on here will forget his crusade against GJ, but we don't need your "witty" posts to remind us of it. If anything you're turning him into a victim on here, which completely goes against your agenda.

Its boring now, you've made your point. I ask politely that you start posting about Bristol City Football Club and not Robbored and GJ... Or bugger off back to under the Supporters Club themed rock from where you came.

he didnt just slag off his managment style. He just said that after he'd called him a nasty piece of work to wriggle out of it. If you really think he meant "he's a nasty piece of work but I really like him" then I'd like to hear how thats possible.

have you politely asked robbored to stop taking swipes at people he doesnt know and calling them a nasty piece of work? I take your point but just wondered if you'd done the same across the board or if somehow working for BCFC makes you fair game for any amount of namecalling.

[Pemburthy]

The win seemed 'PRETTY' damn good to me!!

[WellRedPhil]

As I stated in response to you on a different thread;

If the team had shown an ounce of bottle and not conceded last minute goals on the 8(!?) occassions they did last year, after the Plymouth game we would have been clear in sixth.

You werent a fan of Johnson, I was, so it's clearly inevitable that we'll take our different slants. However I genuinely believe it is a fairer reflection on last season to say we'd have been well in the promotion mix (6th, a point off 4th and 5th after the Plymouth defeat) if we hadnt embarrassingly folded late in countless games, than to say we'd have battled relegation if a striker hadnt have scored goals.

We conceded so many last minute goals not only because of poor concentration but because we carried such a deep defensive line as the game wore on. This was not good tactics and was poor management. If you take all the last minute winners we scored out of the playoff season we'd have been nowhere near playoffs. This is a silly argument.

RR's point on Maynard is a decent one. He scored 20 league goals and around 10 of them were superb indiviual efforts and nothing to do with the team creating him a chance. Without him we probably would've been in a relegation battle.

Johnson had a very successful spell here but it fell apart towards the end as he appeared to crumble. Saying without the late goals we'd have been top 6 is a bizarre point to make, as we did concede them, so what does that even mean?!

[Jordan Tansley]

he didnt just slag off his managment style. He just said that after he'd called him a nasty piece of work to wriggle out of it. If you really think he meant "he's a nasty piece of work but I really like him" then I'd like to hear how thats possible

have you politely asked robbored to stop taking swipes at people he doesnt know and calling them a nasty piece of work? I take your point but just wondered if you'd done the same across the board or if somehow working for BCFC makes you fair game for any amount of namecalling.

Beleive me, I've taken Alan up on his postings more times than most, long before you joined the forum, and yes I have asked him to stop with his unsubstantiated rumours!

I was massive fan of Gary Johnson, and class him as the best city manager of my lifetime, so I do still have a lot of bad feeling reserved for Alan over his very public ill-treatment of a truely remarkable city manager. But it's just gone too far now.

We all love the club, even Alan! So can we not just move on from this constant bitching and infighting?

I know he gets on your nerves, but please, in the interests of this forum and it's thousands of users... Rise above it!

The football club is at a crucial stage in it's history now. We must survive the financial crisis that is slowly evolving in football, we must retain our position in the championship and we must fight against the nimby inbreds and toothless and crooked politicians to get our stadium. All things considered we need our fans to pull together as one for the good of the club!

[Jordan Tansley]

We conceded so many last minute goals not only because of poor concentration but because we carried such a deep defensive line as the game wore on. This was not good tactics and was poor management. If you take all the last minute winners we scored out of the playoff season we'd have been nowhere near playoffs. This is a silly argument.

RR's point on Maynard is a decent one. He scored 20 league goals and around 10 of them were superb indiviual efforts and nothing to do with the team creating him a chance. Without him we probably would've been in a relegation battle.

Johnson had a very successful spell here but it fell apart towards the end as he appeared to crumble. Saying without the late goals we'd have been top 6 is a bizarre point to make, as we did concede them, so what does that even mean?!

Out of interest how can the point about not conceding late goals be bizarre, but the point about "had Nicky not scored" be valid?

They seem to me to equal points, both hypothetical, and both possible.

[WellRedPhil]

Out of interest how can the point about not conceding late goals be bizarre, but the point about "had Nicky not scored" be valid?

They seem to me to equal points, both hypothetical, and both possible.

My point was that leaking late goals is something that the whole team is partially responsible along with the management of course. However Nicky Maynard did not score 20 league goals because the team created him a host of chances, nor did he score all of these goals as a result of the managements tactical genius. He scored 20 goals because he's bloody good at finishing! Obviously as a team we created him some chances, but of the 20 he scored last season around 10 of them were wonder goals, with 2 or 3 verging on the unbelievable!

Do you see what I'm saying? We conceded a lot of goals because of poor tactics, so saying without them we'd be top 6 is a non-argument in my opinion. RR's point about how without many of Maynard's wondergoals we'd have been in a relegation battle is definitely more substantial in my opinion. Would you not agree?

[Jordan Tansley]

My point was that leaking late goals is something that the whole team is partially responsible along with the management of course. However Nicky Maynard did not score 20 league goals because the team created him a host of chances, nor did he score all of these goals as a result of the managements tactical genius. He scored 20 goals because he's bloody good at finishing! Obviously as a team we created him some chances, but of the 20 he scored last season around 10 of them were wonder goals, with 2 or 3 verging on the unbelievable!

Do you see what I'm saying? We conceded a lot of goals because of poor tactics, so saying without them we'd be top 6 is a non-argument in my opinion. RR's point about how without many of Maynard's wondergoals we'd have been in a relegation battle is definitely more substantial in my opinion. Would you not agree?

I do see what you're saying to a degree Phil, But surely it's Nicky's job to score goals? And, Whilst I agree not many of Nicky's goals were as a direct result of an "assist" he was helped by Danny Haynes, Ivan Sproule and JCR making runs across him to create the space and opportunity for a long distance strike.

I do see that the goals were much easier to stop than it was for Nicky to score, But I still feel both have valid points. I also think it's easy to blame the manager for us sitting deep, but this season has in my opinion proved it's the players who seem to have the panic stations mentality and it's not neccessarily all down to management.

I just don't think both points are that dissimilar, and certainly wouldn't describe one as bizarre whilst agreeing with the other.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

My point was that leaking late goals is something that the whole team is partially responsible along with the management of course. However Nicky Maynard did not score 20 league goals because the team created him a host of chances, nor did he score all of these goals as a result of the managements tactical genius. He scored 20 goals because he's bloody good at finishing! Obviously as a team we created him some chances, but of the 20 he scored last season around 10 of them were wonder goals, with 2 or 3 verging on the unbelievable!

Do you see what I'm saying? We conceded a lot of goals because of poor tactics, so saying without them we'd be top 6 is a non-argument in my opinion. RR's point about how without many of Maynard's wondergoals we'd have been in a relegation battle is definitely more substantial in my opinion. Would you not agree?

So who is to blame for the late goals this season?

[WellRedPhil]

I do see what you're saying to a degree Phil, But surely it's Nicky's job to score goals? And, Whilst I agree not many of Nicky's goals were as a direct result of an "assist" he was helped by Danny Haynes, Ivan Sproule and JCR making runs across him to create the space and opportunity for a long distance strike.

I do see that the goals were much easier to stop than it was for Nicky to score, But I still feel both have valid points. I also think it's easy to blame the manager for us sitting deep, but this season has in my opinion proved it's the players who seem to have the panic stations mentality and it's not neccessarily all down to management.

I just don't think both points are that dissimilar, and certainly wouldn't describe one as bizarre whilst agreeing with the other.

I'm very pleased you've said this as I was making this point about Haynes on here just the day, saying how he was the perfect foil for Maynard as he often created the space in which Maynard can be so deadly.

Fair enough and obviously you both have your opinions, I just don't think a point saying how without the late goals we'd have been top 6 and therefore happy with Johnson is very meaningful, as Johnson was evidently part of the reason we conceded these. When he left things had gone to shit and we were about 18th and the late goals of course played their part in this! It was the right decision and most agreed, you and me of course being in that group.

It just seems to me that far too often he is brought up in either an incredibly negative light or a unrealisitically positive one. Not everyone seems able to accept that he did well here, lost the plot towards the end and both parties rightly parted ways.

[Redcliffe 78]

The late goal thing?, psychology get 2-0 up then no need to worry, last season 1-0 last fifteen players got anxious and start thinking not again and it affects the way you play, no fluke conceding that many late goals.

[WellRedPhil]

So who is to blame for the late goals this season?

I can't think of many times we have conceded late this season, it was more a case of being thumped at the start, which Millen was obviously largely responsible for. We conceded a last minute leveller against Doncaster when we looked comfortable which was more the case of a rash, thoughtless challenge by an individual rather than the team sitting back and dropping worryingly deep. Against QPR our defensive line became inreasingly deeper as QPR pegged us back but we were being outplayed in the midfield for practically the entire second half, it was inevitable. Many of the games last season would see the board go up and us panic as we suddenly avoided putting pressure on the opposition higher up the pitch and invited the opposition onto us. This really hans't been the case this season. For half of it we were just not good enough which of course leads back to Millen and in the last 8 games we have not certainly not done this.

The only other late goal was conceded at Pompey when we were already losing and going for the game, an entirely different scenario. You've posted a few times that we haven't learned from last season when it comes to conceding late goals and I've been left baffled as it's happened twice. So why do you keep saying this?

[SJC]

We conceded so many last minute goals not only because of poor concentration but because we carried such a deep defensive line as the game wore on. This was not good tactics and was poor management. If you take all the last minute winners we scored out of the playoff season we'd have been nowhere near playoffs. This is a silly argument.

RR's point on Maynard is a decent one. He scored 20 league goals and around 10 of them were superb indiviual efforts and nothing to do with the team creating him a chance. Without him we probably would've been in a relegation battle.

Johnson had a very successful spell here but it fell apart towards the end as he appeared to crumble. Saying without the late goals we'd have been top 6 is a bizarre point to make, as we did concede them, so what does that even mean?!

Would you agree that it is pretty rare for a football team to concede so many late goals - eight was my quick calculation, costing us a total of 14 points?

I simply dont agree that this was the result of poor management. For me the responsibility lies firmly at the feet of the players. In my opinion it was absolute evidence of a team that lacked concentration and bottle, a couple of late goals fair enough, eight is unacceptable. Yes perhaps you could question whether sitting so deep was wise, but it is lost on me how you could blame a manager for that situation when managers across the country, across all levels of the game, adopt the very same approach.

On the flip side it is surely reasonably regular that strikers bag 10, 15, 20 goals a season - that is their job.

Therefore the question for me is which is the more 'bizarre' stat - a striker leading his team in the scoring charts or a team that capitulated, on average, approaching once every five games.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, the outstanding stat of last season was our pathetic tendancy to surrender last gasp goals. Something that, whether it be Johnson, Millen, whoever, is a poor reflection on the players rather than the manager they represent.

[Donald]

So who is to blame for the late goals this season?

What late goals, bar Donny away when we conceded a late pen, the injury time goals have Been stopped and are nothing like the issue thatmthey have been over the

Last couple of seasons

only other I can think was late late goal at Pompey when we were going all out attack to get a draw and got done on the counter.

A lot of that is down to millen, he's also very wise in bring Cisse into games late on who for me is very underrated by many city fans

[WellRedPhil]

Would you agree that it is pretty rare for a football team to concede so many late goals - eight was my quick calculation, costing us a total of 14 points?

I simply dont agree that this was the result of poor management. For me the responsibility lies firmly at the feet of the players. In my opinion it was absolute evidence of a team that lacked concentration and bottle, a couple of late goals fair enough, eight is unacceptable. Yes perhaps you could question whether sitting so deep was wise, but it is lost on me how you could blame a manager for that situation when managers across the country, across all levels of the game, adopt the very same approach.

On the flip side it is surely reasonably regular that strikers bag 10, 15, 20 goals a season - that is their job.

Therefore the question for me is which is the more 'bizarre' stat - a striker leading his team in the scoring charts or a team that capitulated, on average, approaching once every five games.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, the outstanding stat of last season was our pathetic tendancy to surrender last gasp goals. Something that, whether it be Johnson, Millen, whoever, is a poor reflection on the players rather than the manager they represent.

Absolutely, but this is where we differ as I don't see how this cannot be the management's responsibility. Of course the players are involved and if it happens once or twice it suggests that the players sometimes switch off or become complacent, something you'd expect the manager to rectify. However it happening this much suggested the players almost feared injury time, dropping deeper and deeper and not having the confidence to play the game out or press higher up the pitch. The managers role is surely to install this confidence into the players yet Johnson seemed unable to do this. He also seemed unable to rectify the problem tactically as every game we'd back off. Perhaps all 10 players were ignoring his instructions, but that seems very unlikely. Besides, if they are you've got to ask why? Do they question his ability?

On the flip side, as you put it, you wouldn't expect a pleyer to score 20 goals with the service Maynard recieved. How many times can you honestly say we put him through on goal last season? How many tap ins did he have? The answer to both of these questions is less than 5 and without Maynard's supreme finsihing ability (sometimes from 25/30 yards, sometimes from tight angles and sometimes from positions where the ball itself was a couple of feet off of the ground!) we'd have been in a relegation battle which we were flirting with when Johnson was still at the club in late February.

We obviously have different opinions and our points are largely contrasting but I am amazed that you don't consider Johnson at fault for the many late goals we conceded last season. He was the bloody manager!

[Jordan Tansley]

I'm very pleased you've said this as I was making this point about Haynes on here just the day, saying how he was the perfect foil for Maynard as he often created the space in which Maynard can be so deadly.

Fair enough and obviously you both have your opinions, I just don't think a point saying how without the late goals we'd have been top 6 and therefore happy with Johnson is very meaningful, as Johnson was evidently part of the reason we conceded these. When he left things had gone to shit and we were about 18th and the late goals of course played their part in this! It was the right decision and most agreed, you and me of course being in that group.

It just seems to me that far too often he is brought up in either an incredibly negative light or a unrealisitically positive one. Not everyone seems able to accept that he did well here, lost the plot towards the end and both parties rightly parted ways.

I agree Haynes has a lot of highly valuable attributes, I however am in the "he's a winger and wastes too many chances" camp. I think Stead will offer the same runs and space creation that Haynes does, but also offer a lot more infront of goal and deeper linking the play. I really am looking forward to our very own M&S quality up top!!!

I also agree that GJ had run his course here, He did as much as we could have ever expected for us and should always be remembered fondly for what he did, However it was the right time to go.

I think our final position was a true reflection of our season, we were a few goals not scored away from going down and a few goals not conceded from the playoffs. an enigma of a season for me, where we were neither good or bad.

interestingly I'd take tenth this season!

[Redcliffe 78]

I agree Haynes has a lot of highly valuable attributes, I however am in the "he's a winger and wastes too many chances" camp. I think Stead will offer the same runs and space creation that Haynes does, but also offer a lot more infront of goal and deeper linking the play. I really am looking forward to our very own M&S quality up top!!!

I also agree that GJ had run his course here, He did as much as we could have ever expected for us and should always be remembered fondly for what he did, However it was the right time to go.

I think our final position was a true reflection of our season, we were a few goals not scored away from going down and a few goals not conceded from the playoffs. an enigma of a season for me, where we were neither good or bad.

interestingly I'd take tenth this season!

Thierry Henry was a winger, but Haynes your right is not a natural goalscorer, its a instint , Maynard got it and that's why he will go on too further things, Haynes?, imo last season at City.

[Kid in the Riot]

At the end of the day, from our last 7 games we've won 4 drawn 2 and lost 1 = 14 points.

We look a lot more sound defensively and better organised as an overall unit.

It's going to be small steps for Millen as he makes his first foray into management. I think he started off a bit gung ho but is now perhaps realising that you have to build from the back.

Yesterday was poor for the most part but a win is a win. When we are in a more comfortable league position then we can open up a bit more.