Jordan Tansley Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I will make this point before I start this thread properly; I don't want this to turn into a "superfan" vrs "fickle glory supporter" bitch fight... I'd love some well thought out responses and some genuine views without the usual vitriol and bile... too much to ask? Ok, Back on track. Is it time for the fans to stand up and be counted? I understand the usual answers to this question, "they're payed extortionate amounts to play" "If they give us something to shout about, we will" but this club is clearly in need of a change of attitude. If Lansdown/Keith/The players are not willing to provide the first lift, the first catalyst then it must become our resposibility. We are the ones who stand to lose out if we are relagated... Lansdown will still be mega rich, Keith will still have his pay off/ coaching Qualifications to fall back on and the Players will find another club... We will be the ones watching League 1 football unless we now make the effort. This "call to arms" would probably have been better suited to a few weeks ago or long before the Preston game... Alas, it is not... But we as fans must now try to grab our team by the scruff of the neck and force them to play for OUR shirt. It is not too much to ask for a few songs, a bit of encouragement and less "moans and groans" at the first missplaced pass of the night. I understand that "people have the right to moan" and I do not begrudge anyone of that, But as far as I can see it does nothing to motivate the players to try harder or concentrate more... if anything it makes them more nervous and negative... something our squad is usually pretty good at anyway. It's all very good coming on here for a moan and lambasting every level of the club, But the fans are also performing "turgidly" and if we want to be able to hold our heads high when we question the other fascets of the club surely we should at least be doing all we can? We need to rekindle that "seige mentality" that every club who pulls out of a relegation battle has. I understand Ashton Gate has NEVER been the most vocal of stadiums, but even the east end have gone deadly quiet this season... Gone are the days when they'd sing about the plug in the dolman, because they're leaving before anyone else!!! Someone or something has to happen to pull this club back together, so why can it not be us? or are we happy to be dropping like a stone? I'm not for one second saying that the players or management deserve excessive vocal support, but the club NEEDS it. If we can provide a lift and help create an atmosphere where the lads feel confident to play then half the battle is won!!! I may be shot down as preaching, I may be portrayed as a "superfan" but as far as I can see, this club needs a lift starting at Leeds (A game where even the most positive fan shouldn't predict us getting much from) Even if we're getting beaten, lets just get behind them!! Relegation effects US more than THEM... so lets do our best to tell them that we don't want them to allow it and that if they dont, we will be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Agree 100%. No matter whether we think KM is the right man for the job or not, the fact is the last thing any sane City fans wants is us getting relegated back to the third level of English football. We are clearly in a dogfight to stay up (personally I'm worried that Palace are going to get out of it), so decent backing, laying off the moaning and trying to create an atmosphere where we can get the 20 points or so that we need should be everyone's priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNRED Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Excellent post , fully agree COME ON YOU REDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Works for me.Not quite true to say Ashton has NEVER been the most vocal of grounds,in the mid eighties in the old fourth division it was a very intimidating place to come and that was with crowds of about 5-6000 tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melksham Red Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Sounds great on a forum and not wishing to piss on your fire but in reality it just doesnt work this way. People are seriously cheesed off at the moment with club from top to bottom so expecting them so shout, sing and dance around is just not going to happen! People feel disapointed, ripped off and let down this season. We were promised to much last summer and have got nothing back except an incompetent manager and a incompetent team. No one enjoys seeing the club in such a mess but I think things will have to improve on the pitch first before the fans are won back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Well said. I honestly believe we have some of the worst and most fickle support in the league, people expect so much and explode when we don't get it, As for the match day, bar the east end, at home the atmosphere is generally very flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Works for me.Not quite true to say Ashton has NEVER been the most vocal of grounds,in the mid eighties in the old fourth division it was a very intimidating place to come and that was with crowds of about 5-6000 tops. Agree, and that was because we were as one. We had FAR MORE to moan about then than we do now but we had a siege mentallaty in those days. We know were more than capable of creating an intense atmosphere, we just have to do it. I don't think there will be a problem getting it going against Leeds because I can see there bring an "edge" on and off the pitch for that one. We have started to believe that were a Billy big bollox club lately, just because we have had a couple decent seasons. Realistically we are a bottom half Championship club and have to get that nasty ( for want of a better word) atmosphere towards the away team going again. Lately we are so quick to jump on our OWN players, we should be doing that to the opposition. I can remember away fans and players used to hate coming to Ashton Gate and felt intimidated by our intense support. We need to get back to that imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Football in general doesn't excite me at the present so going to the gate and cheering players who can't even do the simple things right (tackle,pass,head,shoot,THINK,) doesn't work for me. I will still go to games but I expect a semblance of passion from the players. When we see that, the Ashton Roar will follow. It won't work the other way round, never has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Football in general doesn't excite me at the present so going to the gate and cheering players who can't even do the simple things right (tackle,pass,head,shoot,THINK,) doesn't work for me. I will still go to games but I expect a semblance of passion from the players. When we see that, the Ashton Roar will follow. It won't work the other way round, never has. Of course it has, everyone we play a team we Concieve to be "big" WE create the atmosphere and often the tempo of the game. The problem lately has been fans believing were bigger and better than we are.Everytime we play someone that the fans think we will beat there is no atmosphere. But when were underdogs it's the opposite. The Leeds game will prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Of course it has, everyone we play a team we Concieve to be "big" WE create the atmosphere and often the tempo of the game. The problem lately has been fans believing were bigger and better than we are.Everytime we play someone that the fans think we will beat there is no atmosphere. But when were underdogs it's the opposite. The Leeds game will prove that. Are you blaming the fans for the recent performances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Are you blaming the fans for the recent performances? Of course he isn't, Do you not accept that when we play a team we perceive to be bigger than us the atmosphere is usually good... and with that the performance is usually good. I firmly believe that those things are linked, but not the way you think. Games against QPR and Cardiff at home this season have shown that when the fans start the game backing the players they respond... and their response further motivates the fans etc... However, when we play teams like Preston, Palace and Boro the atmosphere is flat, as the fans perceive those teams to be worse than us... It's not the fans "fault" but we certainly are not doing all we can to help motivate our team... People slate the players for only getting themselves "up for" the big games... yet the fans are EXACTLY the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Hocking Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Good points Jordan - there is no doubt it will be the supporters of BCFC who feel the greatest pain if we go down. There is no doubt in my mind that all the unity between fans and team fostered by GJ during his successful period has been lost. To me it feels now the way it did when Jordan left and we had Jimmy Glumsden in charge - after the lord mayor's show etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Are you blaming the fans for the recent performances? No, where/how am I saying that? I'm saying it as I see it. It's been obvious for a while, we play QPR,Cardiff,etc and see ourselves as underdogs so we get behind the team. We play S****horpe,Palace etc and we don't because the crowd EXPECTS a win. If you can't see it then.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Hocking Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Bloomin iPhone - pressed the 'post' button too soon! Anyway what I was going to add was this. Whatever happens at Preston, the Leeds game is the fans best chance to start building some atmosphere again. I'll be there - and more than happy to cheer anything or anyone in a red shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newboy Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I believe it's a two way street - good performances or at least efforts excite the crowd which then generates performances etc etc We're on a downward spiral and the wet cloth of a manager does not have the fire in his belly to motivate the players and that's showing on the pitch. They get paid to do a job. We pay a relative fortune to see it. And if they can't be bothered to perform or are inept due to bad tactics/motivation then we can hardly be expected to be the ones who shoulder all the burden of making an effort. I repeat - these professionals get paid substantially more than we do and work far less than most of us and yet we're expected to stick with them through thick and thin? Fair enough the odd bad performance but we've seen very little of note for 3 years now and understandably most people's patience and stamina is wearing very thin indeed.3 years is not fickle. It's very patient given the expense and time it costs to support these wasters. We need a leader as a manager who inspires all around him - including us. The least we should expect is a plan, some progress and some effort. That's the bare minimum and we seem complacent to settle for a second-hand manager and a carefree squad. In some ways we've only got ourselves to blame - we seem to hope for the best and act as apologists for someone with no evidence of achievement and settle for crap when teams like Swansea with far less resources at their disposal pass us by. City is a soft touch from the top to the bottom and you need a hard ass manager to sort that out. GJ started to do it with the right attitude but was found to be short of experience / skill to see it through at a higher level. We need to be ruthless like all top sportsmen. We've got a bloke called Keith with a clipboard. Forgive me if I don't get excited. Answer this honestly - If the chips were down, the players are on the last legs and they look to the manager for inspiration can you see 'nice' Keith coming up with a barnstorming speech that makes those overplayed complacent players run through walls? If no, then he cannot be a manager of a sportsteam, let alone a multimillion pound high stakes venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I don't think it has anything to do with being underdogs, in general. Yes, it occurs when we play the 'Big' teams, but the atmosphere is generally brought about, by what's taking place on the pitch. People don't believe in this Club anymore. The faith has gone. It's lost it's way. And people are in despair. When the players actually put in some fight, the fans respond. The last game against Swansea was typical. They bought quiet a few fans, and sang from the off. Often taunting our own East End with 'shall we sing a song for you'. There was no response. Then City came out in the second half, and started to show some aggression, actually trying. The Crowd responded, and in return we had 5 mins of actual positive football by City. Then, the second goal went in, and it went back to being morgue like again. I've also noted, we have an ageing support. From my observations, we probably have one of the oldest average aged support in the League. Nothing wrong with that, but it's unlikely to get bouncing and hostile again, unless it's in the East End. I agree with the sentiments of the OP, but the players have lost the respect of the fans. Yes, they love BCFC, but at the moment, not those playing in the shirt. So it's hard for people to support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Of course he isn't, Do you not accept that when we play a team we perceive to be bigger than us the atmosphere is usually good... and with that the performance is usually good. I firmly believe that those things are linked, but not the way you think. Games against QPR and Cardiff at home this season have shown that when the fans start the game backing the players they respond... and their response further motivates the fans etc... However, when we play teams like Preston, Palace and Boro the atmosphere is flat, as the fans perceive those teams to be worse than us... It's not the fans "fault" but we certainly are not doing all we can to help motivate our team... People slate the players for only getting themselves "up for" the big games... yet the fans are EXACTLY the same. Thanks Jordan, you have put it better than I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Of course he isn't, Do you not accept that when we play a team we perceive to be bigger than us the atmosphere is usually good... and with that the performance is usually good. I firmly believe that those things are linked, but not the way you think. Games against QPR and Cardiff at home this season have shown that when the fans start the game backing the players they respond... and their response further motivates the fans etc... However, when we play teams like Preston, Palace and Boro the atmosphere is flat, as the fans perceive those teams to be worse than us... It's not the fans "fault" but we certainly are not doing all we can to help motivate our team... People slate the players for only getting themselves "up for" the big games... yet the fans are EXACTLY the same. Do you not think it should be the other way round. I go to watch them........they dont come to listen to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Do you not think it should be the other way round. I go to watch them........they dont come to listen to me! In an ideal world yes, but they are only human and sometimes need additional motivation. By definition we as FANS (derived from the word FANATIC) should be offering fanatical SUPPORT no matter what, that is obviously as simplistic as the idea that the players should be motivated no matter the atmosphere in the stadium. In all honesty this particular aspect of the debate is neither here nor there, City play better when the fans are baying for blood (of the opposition) and getting behind the team, we as fans aren't giving them that this season (justifiably) and we are now in a relegation dogfight... It seems logical that we should now realise that moaning, groaning and bitching about the club, the coaches, the manager, the players, the chairman, the new stadium, the injuries etc etc doesn't help us in anyway at all. infact, there is nothing at all positive in the incesent highlighting of flaws and the nastiness that this forum is becoming known for. there are however many positives to US getting behind the team and trying to reignite the unity we used to share. Then hopefully the close season will see some repayment for that support in wholesale changes at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Funny how people on this forum seem to praise opposing fans for their support,noise and passion then come out with reasons why we shouldn't,cant or wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Well said. I honestly believe we have some of the worst and most fickle support in the league, people expect so much and explode when we don't get it, As for the match day, bar the east end, at home the atmosphere is generally very flat Jesus, really? Cardiff fans were calling for Dave Jones head last month when they dropped to about 3rd in the league! How gutting must that have been Football fans these days are generally fickle as a whole, but some of it is bought on by clubs owners. The last couple of years, after the Play-offs we had Gary J harping on about "going one better" and we all know Lansdown has a dream of reaching the promised land. I totally appreciate there are 23 other teams fighting for the same prize, but I really dont feel the club has been managed very well in the last couple of years. Plenty of fans said GJ should have gone long before he was allowed to waste more money, some fans said players like Ivan Sproule and that should never have been given new contracts. Many said it was a mistake appointing Millen.....time will tell who was right on this decision. I dont think its a case of being fickle though all the time (some times it is, granted). Fans just get pi$$ed off when they can see certain decisions being made that are the wrong ones.......simple fans like me who's a bloody postman for god sake! Plenty of other fans on here have done the same! It just gets frustrating and drains you. I cant remember what game it was this season (maybe Barnsley at home), but I got in the ground, seen the line up and turned to my dad and just said in so many words, wrong formation and wrong personel on the pitch......bish bang wallop we were 2-0 down before we knew it! Now, how can I see this....yet our manager and coaches, cant? Anyway, with regards the original poster.....I actually agree, and ill try my best to complete support Millen from now on. Clean slate and all that! One of the major factors in our early success under Johnson was the seige mentality we had, the mentality of "no one believes in us, we dont care" So come on City, lets have it for the rest of this season! You reds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Think about how many members this forum has, and then how many fans we get at a home game. We can defintely talk a good game on here, and we can issue all the rallying calls to the World, but the truth of the matter is, a lot of our fans don't come on here, and at the ground can't be bothered to make an atmosphere. I woke on Wednesday morning hardly able to speak because I strained my vocal chords the night before against Swansea. The sickening thing is, there's a small hardy group of us in the E Block Atyeo that tries to get songs going, but nobody joins in. I do get the impression that some people come to watch City and think "where's the singing areas" and then they go and sit in those areas to enjoy the atmosphere rather than try to create the atmosphere. I also get the impression there are pockets of fans who want to be recognised as there own little groups rather than be associated with the rest of the fans. You know the sort, they start out as about 20 fans in the Atyeo H block and move to Dolman A block, then Williams F block and the back to the Dolman - you get the picture, always on the move. The same thing happens at away games(but not quite as bad), you get pockets of fans wanting to be "the lads". It's a big ask to get everyone singing at the same time and that's probably because a lot of the non-singing fans don't sing inbetween the pockets of fans that do sing. It's when we then get a big game and those non-singing fans finally muster the excitement to join in and make the atmosphere a little special as it joins the ground in unison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 In an ideal world yes, but they are only human and sometimes need additional motivation. By definition we as FANS (derived from the word FANATIC) should be offering fanatical SUPPORT no matter what, that is obviously as simplistic as the idea that the players should be motivated no matter the atmosphere in the stadium. In all honesty this particular aspect of the debate is neither here nor there, City play better when the fans are baying for blood (of the opposition) and getting behind the team, we as fans aren't giving them that this season (justifiably) and we are now in a relegation dogfight... It seems logical that we should now realise that moaning, groaning and bitching about the club, the coaches, the manager, the players, the chairman, the new stadium, the injuries etc etc doesn't help us in anyway at all. infact, there is nothing at all positive in the incesent highlighting of flaws and the nastiness that this forum is becoming known for. there are however many positives to US getting behind the team and trying to reignite the unity we used to share. Then hopefully the close season will see some repayment for that support in wholesale changes at the club. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. we are" fans" because we turn up and indirectly pay the players to do a job for us, i.e entertain us. At the moment that isn't happening. If you were paying a plumber say to do a job for you and he did it badly, I dare say you would tell him how bad he was. Its just an opinion and i will be there next week hoping I am entertained by us not Leeds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Do you not think it should be the other way round. I go to watch them........they dont come to listen to me! What does supporting mean ? "home advantage" defines that the home team gets better support which boosts the team etc. What your saying is we should all sit on our hands and see what happens. Ever thought about being proactive rather than reactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 We will have to agree to disagree on this one. we are" fans" because we turn up and indirectly pay the players to do a job for us, i.e entertain us. At the moment that isn't happening. If you were paying a plumber say to do a job for you and he did it badly, I dare say you would tell him how bad he was. Its just an opinion and i will be there next week hoping I am entertained by us not Leeds! No, you buy a S/T because you support the club, no one forces you to. You make your choice, there's no guarantee on your S/T that says we will win and we will entertain you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 No, you buy a S/T because you support the club, no one forces you to. You make your choice there's no guarantee on your S/T that says we will win and we will entertain you. , Thats just as well then. That would be trades discription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Good points Jordan - there is no doubt it will be the supporters who feel the greatest pain if we go down. no doubt all the unity between fans and team fostered by GJ has been lost. it feels the way it did when Jordan left and we had Jimmy Glumsden in charge pretty much as I see it. Good post by the way Jordan; for what it's worth whenever I get the chance to see a game I always end up leaving the stadium with a hoarse voice or none at all and that's whether we win, lose or draw. I can still have a grumble on here though, when it is justified, which right now many would agree it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 pretty much as I see it. Good post by the way Jordan; for what it's worth whenever I get the chance to see a game I always end up leaving the stadium with a hoarse voice or none at all and that's whether we win, lose or draw. I can still have a grumble on here though, when it is justified, which right now many would agree it is. Same here, I have my season ticket but sometimes have to work weekends so my attendance isn't as good as I would like it to be, but whenever I am able to make the trip up to AG I try my best to get fully behind the boys, sometimes it's a thankless task in the Dolman but we usually make the effort a few times a game... It is justified, No doubts... but unfortunately it won't help us get out of the mire... we don't have very long left to create the "seige mentality" that might just help us get out of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NATCHER Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Of course it has, everyone we play a team we Concieve to be "big" WE create the atmosphere and often the tempo of the game. The problem lately has been fans believing were bigger and better than we are.Everytime we play someone that the fans think we will beat there is no atmosphere. But when were underdogs it's the opposite. The Leeds game will prove that. I would agree with this, yet the Swansea game was the opposite. We had a team that were what, top three, a big away support and a night game that normaly helps with the atmosphere. Add the Anglo Welsh rivalry and yet we were still sat on our hands. My question would be is why are we so quiet and all too ready to accept what's happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Maybe people are resigned to the fact, that it probably isn't going to get better this year. The doubt about the future of the Club is playing on fan's minds. What's SL's future? Non belief in the players and management. Many can't see it getting better soon etc,etc,etc. People feel punch drunk. This Club is in Limbo right now, and it's effecting the way the fans feel. Passion comes with belief...and many have lost that belief. So many factors are effecting the negative way the fans feel. It's a crying shame tbh. I remember when we went down under Benny, and even though we knew we were doomed, the fans sang and supported the team, because although they didn't have the quality, they showed passion and spirit, both players and management. We're not getting that at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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