Keith Millen. Defending The Undefendable

[arpaul]

Having read through all the replies to this thread it surprises me that, one again no-one mentions what a largely poor bunch of players Millen has at his disposal.

You can't blame the players for playing out of position, or playing as if underprepared.

Only 3 or 4 are upto Championship standard imo and he's having to make do with a bunch of dross. Few of them, if any would get into any of the top 6 teams.

James, Caulker, Fontaine, Adomah, Keogh and Pittman are capable of Championship football, and I believe Cisse played at an even higher level with Reading? so that's 7. Woolford has come from a Championship side and scored far more than most of our players, so he makes 8. Elliot was good enought for a £3,000,000+ bid from Wolves not so long back so that's 9.

So of the starting line up from Saturday, that leaves Carey, who maybe slowing, but still shows heart and passion. And of course your old mate McAllister. Despite being the fans boo boy, isn't a bad defender. He hasn't had any cover in front of him all season. But it's pointless trying to defend him as you only hear or see what you want.

Obviously Millen isn't going to say that in public but be under no illusion that he doesn't know it.

It not what he knows or thinks. The question is... has he the ability to sort it out? I fear he hasn't

If Mourinho or Wenger had taken over when Millen did I doubt even they would have got much more out of such sorry bunch of players.

Very hypothetical, but under Mourinho we'd be harder to beat and much more effective and workmanlike. Under Wenger? Je ne sais pas! One thing for certain is that it would be far more entertaining.

But this is my point... It isn't the winning or losing. I am happy with Championship football. What I am not happy with is the utter dross served up by Millen. Again he sets out the tactics, as does Mr Mourinho and Mr Wenger. All three are ultimately responsible for the positions and style of play of their respective sides.

Should City stay in the Championship I would expect to see a massive clear over the summer

At last, something to agree on. But it is only a "should" You said Saturday that we were not in danger because there were three worse teams than ourselves? Aren't you so sure anymore?

There has to be a clear out regardless of what division we find ourself in next season. But maybe, it needs to be the management team as opposed to the players. Your self called "Strongest City Squad for ages" can't become this poor overnight........not without a little help from the management structure?

with Millen bringing in some quality players and having a pre-season to work with them.

Quality players who will be told to play out of position!!!!!!!!

Come on Robbored. Wake up and realise it's 2011!!

I think I have found the Millen team selector programme .............................

[lager loud]

Was'nt suppose to come accross as confrontational, i apologise if it does - but the amount of times that is said when actually he's had since august. He should'nt have been putting his effort into a winger and striker. We've got Rose, who should be playing when fit and JCR when he is not.

Rose and JCR has been hit and miss, but I think this is because we have no threat down the middle, we have become too reliant on our wingers and expect them to produce every game. You can say JCR aint good enough, but he's good enough for a back-up - something we aint got at left back and we got no playmakers at all in the squad. Same for the forwards, clarkson, will do as a back-up and his scoring rate aint that bad.

I understand keogh was signed because stead got injured, but thats what we have a squad for. We've got clarkson & pitman and maynard coming back and stead in a couple of months, now if we got another injury there is always the loan system.

Thing is, I dont think millen prioritised a full back and a midfielder that much - I get the feeling he does not think we need it as urgently as we do.

OK. No worries.

KM has had since August, but wasn't able to make any permanent signings until January, and with our financial position and a bloated, expensive squad couldn't just go out and spend whatever he wanted, I'm sure. So I still think it's unfair to judge him on what he's been able to do so far.

FWIW I think JCR is probably good enough as back up on the right but has been far too easy to defend against on the left. I think Rose would have been more than good enough to get us through to the end of the season, but there was a chance to get in a player who we thought could do a job there long term so I think it was right to get him in. Plus I'd still be interested to see how Rose could do playing in central midfield alonside Skuse/Marv/Cisse - I think he might offer something none of our other central midfielders offer, and we'd never find out if he had to play wide on the left all the time.

I don't agree Clarkson is good enough, even as back up. He has scored a fair number of goals, but his overall contribution as a forward (holding up the ball, making himself available, putting defenders under pressure) has been poor, and I think his lack of pace and strength will always be a problem at this level. We took the chance to bring in a player who is (IMO) better than any of our backup forwards, which should allow Maynard (and Stead, when the time comes) to work their way back in gradually. I think that's a good move.

I can only hope you're wrong about the last bit, especially as far as the midfield goes. In spite of Saturday I still think Jamie Mac is generally an OK defender - not a world beater but normally pretty solid. I'm aware you won't agree with me on that, but I've really made an effort to watch him since he started taking so much stick on here, and think he generally does a fair job.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

Was'nt suppose to come accross as confrontational, i apologise if it does - but the amount of times that is said when actually he's had since august. He should'nt have been putting his effort into a winger and striker. We've got Rose, who should be playing when fit and JCR when he is not.

Rose and JCR has been hit and miss, but I think this is because we have no threat down the middle, we have become too reliant on our wingers and expect them to produce every game. You can say JCR aint good enough, but he's good enough for a back-up - something we aint got at left back and we got no playmakers at all in the squad. Same for the forwards, clarkson, will do as a back-up and his scoring rate aint that bad.

I understand keogh was signed because stead got injured, but thats what we have a squad for. We've got clarkson & pitman and maynard coming back and stead in a couple of months, now if we got another injury there is always the loan system.

Thing is, I dont think millen prioritised a full back and a midfielder that much - I get the feeling he does not think we need it as urgently as we do.

How do you know ? I don't think you realise how difficult it is to get the RIGHT player. You have got to find someone who is going to make a difference to the squad who doesn't cost too much and is going to accept average championship wages and who wants to come here

Its not football manager

[Riaz]

How do you know ? I don't think you realise how difficult it is to get the RIGHT player. You have got to find someone who is going to make a difference to the squad who doesn't cost too much and is going to accept average championship wages and who wants to come here

Its not football manager

If you read again what I have written, the key-word is think, something I cannot prove

[Redcliffe 78]

How do you know ? I don't think you realise how difficult it is to get the RIGHT player. You have got to find someone who is going to make a difference to the squad who doesn't cost too much and is going to accept average championship wages and who wants to come here

Its not football manager

Some people actually send in there CV's to clubs from there record on football manager, on the subject above, yes its hard to get your targets in the stupidness of January transfer time unsettles clubs and there players, all open transfer window or imo you can only buy June-Aug, and basically get on with it. You bought the players in the summer, chairmans back the signings, and maybe the mad sacking of managers wouldn't happen.

[Robbored]

Come on Robbored. Wake up.

I'm wide awake and have been all season.

You accuse me of 'seeing and hearing what I want to see and hear'. Well thats rich coming from a bloke who used to shout out 'come on the 10 men' whenever Tinnion was playing.

Its not as black and white as you make out. When Millen was appointed I was more than happy to give him a fair chance to show what he he can do. I like others was also aware that he inherited none of his own players and a unbalanced squad still in shock after the departure of Coppell. A club in turmoil with no pre-season to speak of. The clubs top striker, Maynard was long term injured and Haynes was injured at the start of the season. The best playmaker since Tinnion, Hartley had packed his gear and gone home. Orr had also gone. 4 of last years players no longer available for City, two of them very influencial.

Millen has since added to the squad with the addition of Caulker, Rose and his first proper signing Woolford. Now another decent striker Stead is also injured.

I'm the first to admit that some of the performances at AG have been shockingly poor but unlike under Johnson, Millen has had no real opportunity to impose himself and his ideals into the squad. City have been in or just above the drop zone all season. Survival in the Championship is everything and there hasn't been any chance to concentrate on anything else.

I'm prepared to support Millen and won't judge him so harshly as some others do at this stage of the season given all the factors he's had to face. I really believe that Millen given the chance to clear out the dross and start bringing in his own players with which to start re-building will produce a succesfull team.

[Redcliffe 78]

Hate to correct you old chap, must have been a different Pitman and Stead that were signed permanently in the 17 days or so Millen ( appointed 12th August) had of the Summer transfer window spunking c. 500k- 1 million on Pitman (Signed c.21st August) and whatever on Stead (signed c.22nd August)

Yeah definitely no money or no time to sign players. Must have been someone else. How much did Woolford cost from Scunny. 1st teamerm, plenty of appearences, no real need for them to sell.

But people can keep believing Keef has had no cash to spend nor that he hasnt had time.

Coppells signings then, they were coming here Millen tied the deals up?

[craigBCFC]

I just wonder what analysis they do of opposing teams during the week. Leeds have quick and skilful wide players and play 4 4 2 or 4 2 3 1 something like that.

What i don't understand is why you wouldn't match up against a team that is 6th in the league! Granted Leeds aren't as good as Swansea but surely the full backs needed cover and we should be try to cut the main source of supply off which was out-wide.

Then we move to Swansea where we played 4 4 2 against a team that like to play 4 3 3 with two extremely quick wingers and a midfield 3 that love to keep the ball and push on to support the striker! We got over run in midfield, completely outclassed and it makes me wonder what the hell they have been doing in training!

2 completely different teams where Millen just hasn't set the team up to be competitive in the game. I just think that the time has come now where we go 4 or 5 games injures permitting where we try and keep the same 11 or change maybe 1 player a game and identify each opposing team induvually when we play them and see where we can establish ourseleves in the game and give us a chance of winning! Becuase one thing is for sure this team doenst have the ability to keep going 1 or 2 nil down week in and week out especially at home! These homes games coming up could be crucital and Millen has to start getting it right otherwise we are in big trouble!

[Redcliffe 78]

How could Coppell sign them if he had stopped being the manager some 10 days earlier? Please explain, does not make any sense

They were coming into the club pre Coppels departure, or did Millen suddenly say i want those two,

[lager loud]

Hate to correct you old chap, must have been a different Pitman and Stead that were signed permanently in the 17 days or so Millen ( appointed 12th August) had of the Summer transfer window spunking c. 500k- 1 million on Pitman (Signed c.21st August) and whatever on Stead (signed c.22nd August)

Yeah definitely no money or no time to sign players. Must have been someone else. How much did Woolford cost from Scunny. 1st teamerm, plenty of appearences, no real need for them to sell.

But people can keep believing Keef has had no cash to spend nor that he hasnt had time.

Depending on who you believe, old chap, weren't these signings already in the offing when KM took over? As it happens they were good signings, and ones that KM might or might not have instigated if he'd been in charge earlier. At least he oversaw the completion of these signings. But did he have enough time to make the major squad changes needed? I'm not convinced 17 days (or whatever it was) was enough to find and attract the other players he might have felt we needed. And he was also lumbered with some other poor signings that had been made before he got the job.

I've never said he hasn't had money to spend - just that he hasn't had money to waste. There's no question SL has backed him financially, but I'm sure SL would have preferred to get more players off the wage bill and wasn't offering a blank cheque book. But without knowing who we approached and what we might have had to pay to get other players there's no way of knowing whether we've missed out on the bargain of the century, decided not to pay over the odds for a journeyman, or neither, or both. And we also don't know which of our current squad KM would have liked to offload, but couldn't.

So I'd rather judge him after he's had a chance to have a real clearout and a chance to find players we really want at a sensible cost - which won't happen before the summer.

[bcfcnick]

I want KM to succeed as I like to have a manager who has an affinity with the Club and I think his man management is good. He also seems to have an eye for a good up and coming player as opposed to signing the uninspiring 'extra club in the bag'. I say 'seems; as nobody knows who really originally targeted Admonah, Caulker, Pitman and Woolford.

The problem is that I had hoped from KM's earlier pledges of 'attractive football' that he meant he intended to introduce a fluent passing game. I didn't realise he meant a passing to the opposition or advocating a game of piggy in the middle where presumably our defence tare instructed to hoof it over the midfield aimlessly to get their bonus. I don't know if the defence are instructed to punt the ball up field, whether they don't have the ability to pass through midfield or just lack confidence in the ability of Elliot, Cisse etc but this hoofball is (literally) self-defeating - inevitably the ball just comes back and puts the defence under pressure again. I like the way DJ always looks to try and throw out to a City player to ensure possession rather than gamble by kicking upfield. We don't have the players for that direct approach and, even if we did, I don't want to see that style. It's this more than anything that makes me question whether KM is the right long-term solution.

I hope he puts it right but if not I just want to see someone who wants to play possession football with players right the way through the side who are capable of doing that. It also needs someone to set up a structure that coaches this philosophy from the academy players upwards. The conundrum is whether long ball comes from KM's instructions or whether he wants a passing game and the defence and midfield are incapable of carrying out instructions. I think it was spudski who advocated Spanish coaches and the best solution might be the appointment of someone familiar with English football who embraces the passing game philosophy and leads an initiative with a new approach and set up (including new coaches - Spanish or otherwise) throughout the Club from top to bottom.

[Portland Bill]

I know many on here are happy to bash Millen over the head with any mistake, but surely one of you, over all these Millen bashing threads, can see why Woolford was played on the right?

But just incase your all not playing dumb I will explain. I imagine it has something to do with cutting in with the ball on his correct foot, a tactic that is widely used at the moment by many teams.

The thing is that when playing with a front three they need the ball a lot further up the pitch for this to work, this didn't happen and both Wooly and Pitman looked isolated because of it.

I'm not necessarily pro Millen, but it just

annoys me that some will look for reasons to attack him whilst ignoring the obvious.

I've been with KM all season as I have been with all managers bar Pulis ( There is one

poster who doesn't believe me but that's his problem!)

But, as I said earlier, we are a far better side when we play a left sided player on the left.

Yes, there are a lot of wingers who do play on the "wrong" wing, and if that Suit's the team then that's fine.

It's clear over the last 18 months it hasnt suited us though.

KM got Novembers? Manager of the month on the back of playing Rose wide left, the team had balance and shape.

We looked organised back then, we didn't on Saturday imo.

[lager loud]

I want KM to succeed as I like to have a manager who has an affinity with the Club and I think his man management is good. He also seems to have an eye for a good up and coming player as opposed to signing the uninspiring 'extra club in the bag'. I say 'seems; as nobody knows who really originally targeted Admonah, Caulker, Pitman and Woolford.

The problem is that I had hoped from KM's earlier pledges of 'attractive football' that he meant he intended to introduce a fluent passing game. I didn't realise he meant a passing to the opposition or advocating a game of piggy in the middle where presumably our defence tare instructed to hoof it over the midfield aimlessly to get their bonus. I don't know if the defence are instructed to punt the ball up field, whether they don't have the ability to pass through midfield or just lack confidence in the ability of Elliot, Cisse etc but this hoofball is (literally) self-defeating - inevitably the ball just comes back and puts the defence under pressure again. I like the way DJ always looks to try and throw out to a City player to ensure possession rather than gamble by kicking upfield. We don't have the players for that direct approach and, even if we did, I don't want to see that style. It's this more than anything that makes me question whether KM is the right long-term solution.

I hope he puts it right but if not I just want to see someone who wants to play possession football with players right the way through the side who are capable of doing that. It also needs someone to set up a structure that coaches this philosophy from the academy players upwards. The conundrum is whether long ball comes from KM's instructions or whether he wants a passing game and the defence and midfield are incapable of carrying out instructions. I think it was spudski who advocated Spanish coaches and the best solution might be the appointment of someone familiar with English football who embraces the passing game philosophy and leads an initiative with a new approach and set up (including new coaches - Spanish or otherwise) throughout the Club from top to bottom.

Wow. Wouldn't we all love that.

We may not have the players for hoofball, but neither do we have the players who can play the sort of fluent passing game you (and I) would love to see. Do our defenders hoof the ball because they are incapable of doiing anything else or because no-one "shows" for them, offering an easy option, so they have to get rid of it? Maybe both, but we've had problem with lack of movement in the front two thirds of the team since at least the Danny Wilson days.

Look at Swansea the other week. They passed the ball through us because most of their team was playing pass and move, and was good enough to do both of those things competently. Even if we could get our players to do the "move" bit, how many of them are capable of the quick control and pass? And how often is one of our players' second touch a tackle? Too often.

I've no idea if KM is capable of coaching teams to play like Swansea (with a bit more ooomph in the final third, hopefully). But I am sure he couldn't get our current squad to do it: too many of them just don't have the skill - like too many British players, sadly. And I think turning the whole Club around in that way would take five or maybe ten years. I'd be patient enough to wait for that approach to bear fruit, but there are plenty of fans who wouldn't.

[Redcliffe 78]

I want KM to succeed as I like to have a manager who has an affinity with the Club and I think his man management is good. He also seems to have an eye for a good up and coming player as opposed to signing the uninspiring 'extra club in the bag'. I say 'seems; as nobody knows who really originally targeted Admonah, Caulker, Pitman and Woolford.

The problem is that I had hoped from KM's earlier pledges of 'attractive football' that he meant he intended to introduce a fluent passing game. I didn't realise he meant a passing to the opposition or advocating a game of piggy in the middle where presumably our defence tare instructed to hoof it over the midfield aimlessly to get their bonus. I don't know if the defence are instructed to punt the ball up field, whether they don't have the ability to pass through midfield or just lack confidence in the ability of Elliot, Cisse etc but this hoofball is (literally) self-defeating - inevitably the ball just comes back and puts the defence under pressure again. I like the way DJ always looks to try and throw out to a City player to ensure possession rather than gamble by kicking upfield. We don't have the players for that direct approach and, even if we did, I don't want to see that style. It's this more than anything that makes me question whether KM is the right long-term solution.

I hope he puts it right but if not I just want to see someone who wants to play possession football with players right the way through the side who are capable of doing that. It also needs someone to set up a structure that coaches this philosophy from the academy players upwards. The conundrum is whether long ball comes from KM's instructions or whether he wants a passing game and the defence and midfield are incapable of carrying out instructions. I think it was spudski who advocated Spanish coaches and the best solution might be the appointment of someone familiar with English football who embraces the passing game philosophy and leads an initiative with a new approach and set up (including new coaches - Spanish or otherwise) throughout the Club from top to bottom.

Good post, nobody wants a neck ache watching football, otherwise god with of put grass in the sky, Barcelona under 8's play the same as the first team, learn to love the ball, short sharp passes and movement, the sooner are young players in City/England are taught to do this the quality will get better.

[Mr Mosquito]

But, as I said earlier, we are a far better side when we play a left sided player on the left.

I was rubbing my eyes in disbelief when I saw Woolford start on the right wing against Leeds. With the players now at the club it's becoming more and more indefensible with regard to the amount of home games we're losing.

[Redcliffe 78]

I was rubbing my eyes in disbelief when I saw Woolford start on the right wing against Leeds. With the players now at the club it's becoming more and more indefensible with regard to the amount of home games we're losing.

Its a new thing in football, like only one player on the post stupid imo , with the Woolford thing if you got players that can switch side to side good, think of how many Alan Walsh would of scored cutting in on his left foot.

[SC_Red]

I'm wide awake and have been all season.

You accuse me of 'seeing and hearing what I want to see and hear'. Well thats rich coming from a bloke who used to shout out 'come on the 10 men' whenever Tinnion was playing.

Its not as black and white as you make out. When Millen was appointed I was more than happy to give him a fair chance to show what he he can do. I like others was also aware that he inherited none of his own players and a unbalanced squad still in shock after the departure of Coppell. A club in turmoil with no pre-season to speak of. The clubs top striker, Maynard was long term injured and Haynes was injured at the start of the season. The best playmaker since Tinnion, Hartley had packed his gear and gone home. Orr had also gone. 4 of last years players no longer available for City, two of them very influencial.

Millen has since added to the squad with the addition of Caulker, Rose and his first proper signing Woolford. Now another decent striker Stead is also injured.

I'm the first to admit that some of the performances at AG have been shockingly poor but unlike under Johnson, Millen has had no real opportunity to impose himself and his ideals into the squad. City have been in or just above the drop zone all season. Survival in the Championship is everything and there hasn't been any chance to concentrate on anything else.

I'm prepared to support Millen and won't judge him so harshly as some others do at this stage of the season given all the factors he's had to face. I really believe that Millen given the chance to clear out the dross and start bringing in his own players with which to start re-building will produce a succesfull team.

Ok....

1. I got told off by you for mentioning stuff you posted 3 months ago. Now you use something someone said when Tinnion was playing as part of your argument - hypocrtie.

2. You were happy to give Millen a chance to show wha the can do. After 5 months you were calling Johnson a cobference manager. Are you wrong now or were you wrong then? - hypocrite again.

3. You say Millen took over a club in turmoil. He took over a club that had just finished 10th. He'd of known this because he managed them for the last 9 games of that season and would of told Coppell where the squad was short if he was any sort of assistant. Look up what assistant means.

Johnson took over a club in the League 1 relegation zone wit hno preseason of his own and pulled them to a good finishing position. So your saying thats an easier way to take over than before the seasons started when your already a man whose been in the dressing room for 6 years? Nonsense.

4. Millen knew Hartley and Orr were going. He was here the whole time they were and would of known they werent renewing contracts and wanted to leave. No excuses there just a lack of planning.

5. Your right. Millen has added Caulker who wont be here long term and Rose whose already not played for the best part of 2 months. Now he's bought Woolford and loaned in Keogh to cover his other crock. First thing he did was play Woolford on the right. Not a stroke of genius as it turned out.

6. You said a while back that youd point out when we were clear of trouble and Millen would change our style of play from grinding out results (which he's not doing very well) to attacking play. Its obvious you were being cocky at the time because we were on a good run and you thought it would continue. It hasnt. If it had Millen would be getting prais but it hasnt so he gets criticised. Rightly so. Its his fault. He is manager.

7. How did Johnson have the oppurtunity to impose himself but Millen hasnt? Oh yes because he started winning games and people bought into it and believed in it. As soon as Millen does that consistently people might do the same with him. But your going to tell us all when that happens arent you? Cant help feeling you thought it would already of happened and you'd be telling us all how brilliant Millen is.

Thatll do for now.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Its a new thing in football, like only one player on the post stupid imo , with the Woolford thing if you got players that can switch side to side good, think of how many Alan Walsh would of scored cutting in on his left foot.

It's to create space for an attacking full back on each side to bomb on into and supplement the attack- space etc. Unfortunately we lack two full backs capable of exploiting said space to the full- perhaps Riberio if he is ever fit...

This particular innovation is just one of many along similar lines as part of a wider theme- the death of the specialist at a high level. It's why Owen is no longer needed when it comes to the crunch at the top level- can't lead the line on his own. Arguably similar applied to Fowler in the middle of this decade. Centre backs are now expected to supplement attacks (Pique and Ferdinand just 2 such examples), as such in some cases now strikers now have a role to mark or at least track said ball playing centre back and wingers may need to mark opposing full backs. Just some examples of how football tactics are always evolving and advancing. Some would call it progress, others may have a different view.

[Redcliffe 78]

It's to create space for an attacking full back on each side to bomb on into and supplement the attack- space etc. Unfortunately we lack two full backs capable of exploiting said space to the full- perhaps Riberio if he is ever fit...

This particular innovation is just one of many along similar lines as part of a wider theme- the death of the specialist at a high level. It's why Owen is no longer needed when it comes to the crunch at the top level- can't lead the line on his own. Arguably similar applied to Fowler in the middle of this decade. Centre backs are now expected to supplement attacks (Pique and Ferdinand just 2 such examples), as such in some cases now strikers now have a role to mark or at least track said ball playing centre back and wingers may need to mark opposing full backs. Just some examples of how football tactics are always evolving and advancing. Some would call it progress, others may have a different view.

And its the way forward, days of lumping it up to 6'7 forward and getting scraps of him is over, Sam Alladayce managers like him put me of football, it not called head football, it's called football, a great cross needs heading in the net.

[Mr Popodopolous]

And its the way forward, days of lumping it up to 6'7 forward and getting scraps of him is over, Sam Alladayce managers like him put me of football, it not called head football, it's called football, a great cross needs heading in the net.

Agreed. We should aspire to play tbhis way, though it would take quite some while to put the strategy in place, from a young age, players in our academy should be taught this way as some others have already said. That is how Barca do it from young age, Ajax as well another key example, Arsenal are another I guess- very similar footballing philosophies in all 3 cases.

[NOTR]

And its the way forward, days of lumping it up to 6'7 forward and getting scraps of him is over, Sam Alladayce managers like him put me of football, it not called head football, it's called football, a great cross needs heading in the net.

It seems to work up on the downs.

[Economou]

What i don't understand is why you wouldn't match up against a team that is 6th in the league!

In Keith's post match interview he claimed that Leeds did match City up.

[WellRedPhil]

was it that bad was it?

massive over reaction considering second half we were arguably the better side and certainly their match...

and lets not forget they are a couple of points off the automatic promotion places? clearly and average side

Woolford played well on the right having been shit on the left against Preston, Adomah unfortunately has done NOTHING for a month or two, maybe the fact he was dropped made him realise he has to work a little harder? Pitman too hadn't done much for a month or so, and scored in a left "inside forward" position against PNE.

Funny thing is, had Millen not kept the same side and we lost (which is highly likely considering the form of Leeds and our shit midfield) there would have been absolute uproar on here, from the exact same people.

Completely agree. People seem to have forgotten how shit we were when playing 4-4-2 in the games leading up to this, which includes the first-half of the Preston game. The second half at Deepdale was the first shining light since QPR away so to switch that system back to a 4-4-2 which would have most probably failed wouldn't exactly have been inspiring either and he'd clearly have been shot down for that.

I'd very much imagine Friday's game will be case of trying to match Leicester and personally I think we'll lose about 3-0. By the time Watford comes around we might see Pitman and Maynard starting together and if that still persistently fails with Adomah and Woolford occupying both wings then we really will have to look at a summer upheavel in terms of both the management and playing squad.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Completely agree. People seem to have forgotten how shit we were when playing 4-4-2 in the games leading up to this, which includes the first-half of the Preston game. The second half at Deepdale was the first shining light since QPR away so to switch that system back to a 4-4-2 which would have most probably failed wouldn't exactly have been inspiring either and he'd clearly have been shot down for that.

I'd very much imagine Frday's game will be case of trying to match Leicester and personally I think we'll lose about 3-0. By the time Watford comes around we might see Pitman and Maynard starting together and if that still persistently fails with Adomah and Woolford occupying both wings then we really will have to look at a summer upheavel in terms of both the management and playing squad.

Your post sort of highlights the severity of our problem and that is where is our next win/goal is going to come from, even you don't seem able to hold out much hope.

[WellRedPhil]

Your post sort of highlights the severity of our problem and that is where is our next win/goal is going to come from, even you don't seem able to hold out much hope.

I'm certainly not hopeful and things do look bad. What I'm saying is that to go back to the 4-4-2 system that had proved so inept in recent weeks following what has been our only glimmer of hope for a while would also have brought inevitable stick. You see what I mean? I guess one positive from it is that Millen had the confidence to make a bold decision. It was a bold and risky move to play the players in the formation that he did Saturday and unfortunately it didn't come off. However some are speaking as if playing 4-4-2 would've given us a guarenteed 3 points! Forgetting the last few home games are we?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Completely agree. People seem to have forgotten how shit we were when playing 4-4-2 in the games leading up to this, which includes the first-half of the Preston game. The second half at Deepdale was the first shining light since QPR away so to switch that system back to a 4-4-2 which would have most probably failed wouldn't exactly have been inspiring either and he'd clearly have been shot down for that.

Very true. Like you I was at Deepdale, and I do recall the 2nd half being so much better than the first- whether we can read too much into that as a bigger picture given subsequent game v Leeds is a different matter.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I'm certainly not hopeful and things do look bad. What I'm saying is that to go back to the 4-4-2 system that had proved so inept in recent weeks following what has been our only glimmer of hope for a while would also have brought inevitable stick. You see what I mean? I guess one positive from it is that Millen had the confidence to make a bold decision. It was a bold and risky move to play the players in the formation that he did Saturday and unfortunately it didn't come off. However some are speaking as if playing 4-4-2 would've given us a guarenteed 3 points! Forgetting the last few home games are we?

Bold and risky yes, however what would have been more bold would have been to have changed things before half time, once he had realized what most other people watching the game had realized, it was'nt working. He seems very slow to react to unfolding events on the pitch.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Regarding my earlier example:

Watching Fulham-Chelsea right now. Exactly the same principle as here- Duff as a left footer was on the right and he came inside- created space for their left back to committ the full back. Similarly Dempsey who is a right footer on the left made more space for Salcido. They've done this a number of times and it's caused dangerous moments for Chelsea.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Regarding my earlier example:

Watching Fulham-Chelsea right now. Exactly the same principle as here- Duff as a left footer was on the right and he came inside- created space for their left back to committ the full back. Similarly Dempsey who is a right footer on the left made more space for Salcido. They've done this a number of times and it's caused dangerous moments for Chelsea.

I think most people understand the principle, however Duff is an experienced gifted international who has had millions spent on him for his services and with all due respect to the guy Woolford or even Pitman are not.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think most people understand the principle, however Duff is an experienced gifted international who has had millions spent on him for his services and with all due respect to the guy Woolford or even Pitman are not.

Fair point, I suppose you can only work with the personel you have as a coach.