Frenchay Red Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Aside from whether or not he is that good, or brings very much extra to the team, I think I could make an educated guess that the only reason he is here is because Plymouth were relegated. Didn't he say that he signed for us because we were the closest Championship club to his home in Chudleigh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 but has let it in the net 170 times or so in 2 and a bit seasons. If Buffon, Casillas or Julio Cesar were in ours or Pompey's team they would still have let in many of those goals. Pompey and ourselves both have/ had crap defences. So why was Leroy Rosenior taking the piss out of him on that Late Kick Off programme a few nights ago? Didn't see it TBF. I like Leroy, but DJ has achieved much much more than he ever has. Perhaps he should concentrate on making sure his arrogant **** of a son is kept in check. I'll take it from your signature that you are a DJ fan. ! Commands his box - I disagree. He is often caught rooted to the goal line when he could come for a cross. He does take the easy ones though. Excellent kicking. Strongly disagree. Can barely kick to the half way line. Organises defence - thats right, we hardly concede any goals don't we. The cohesion in our defence is superb! Bags of experience. Agree. But he has always been shit, thus the reason he has had so many clubs. Please dont give me the england crap. He was the best of a crap bunch. Goalkeepers dont get given the nickname "calamity" for no reason! Agreed that being England's best keeper does show the lack of top class goalkeepers in this country. He does command his box well. Much better than Gerken. His kicking is fairly decent. He does try and organise his defence well, but some of our defenders struggle to follow the simplest of indtructions. He is in a different league to most of them IMO. Having many clubs, does not mean you're sh**. Why did so many clubs want to buy him? Calamity was a nickname given to him many years ago and all keepers make mistakes. In his last 3-4 years, he has made very few mistakes, but the name has stuck. I can only think of Ipswich this season for us where that nickname would hold true. P.S. It wasn't that long ago that Redknapp was after him for Spurs. Probably, as he makes less mistakes than Gomez! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pederho ll Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 We never needed James. Henderson was the future and this should have been his season between sticks. In my opinion James is average. Basso was a much better goalie at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 We never needed James. Henderson was the future and this should have been his season between sticks. Correct on both counts. We'll lose Henderson due to a lack of opportunities, just like we lost Weale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 We never needed James. Henderson was the future and this should have been his season between sticks. In my opinion James is average. Basso was a much better goalie at this level. Totally agree. We weren't even on the look out for a 'keeper. New creative CM was and still is our priority, and a quality LB, and CB for when Caulker goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 We never needed James. Henderson was the future and this should have been his season between sticks. In my opinion James is average. Basso was a much better goalie at this level. I can't disagree too much with your first couple of sentences. In most people's opinions, a new goalkeeper certainly wasn't the area of the team that needed addressing most. However, as I posted earlier, there are many other things that he brings to the club. Experience, professionalism, raising our profile, etc ... etc ... I don't agree that he's average though, I think he's one of the best goalkeepers in the Championship and could maybe even do a job in the Prem still. Basso was awesome of course, but had some big flaws to his game, mainly distribution and decision making. He was quite rightly a fans' favourite, but dug a hole for himself over his contract situation (I don't think we'll ever get to the bottom of what exactly went wrong though). I actually think that any goalkeeper we have had recently and maybe in the future will get a lot of unfair stick, as people find it hard to accept that Basso is no longer here. He will always be a legend in my book, but it's time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I despair of this forum sometimes. Someone said he has never been any good. Are you for real? The guy played for 18 years in the top flight. He has the most clean sheets in the Prem You can hardly blame him for Portsmouth and City letting in so many goals this season. Yes he has had 3 games that I can remember where he has been poor He won't be the reason we go down this season (if we do). I would put him, Caulker and Adomah in our top 3 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Can anyone actually name a recent season where we've conceded goals in such quantity and with so many of them being so soft? We've got most of the defenders from reccent, more successful seasons, we've got the same man coaching them... someone or something was organising them better - perhaps Mr Orr and Mr Basso were far more influential than some on here would give credit. The answer to your first question is No! Yes we usually take one big spanking a season but to ship as many at home consistantly is a pretty new phenomena Basso was extremely influential on the team and we missed him pretty quckly after the GJ bust up! Bradley also brought fight to the team and the determination to play at a higher level. We need someone as a real leader with the will not to be beaten...Yes I'm going to say it...Like Gerry Gow.... Anyone know of any spare Gerrys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 The answer to your first question is No! Yes we usually take one big spanking a season but to ship as many at home consistantly is a pretty new phenomena Basso was extremely influential on the team and we missed him pretty quckly after the GJ bust up! Bradley also brought fight to the team and the determination to play at a higher level. We need someone as a real leader with the will not to be beaten...Yes I'm going to say it...Like Gerry Gow.... Anyone know of any spare Gerrys Halliwell's been looking for work recently as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I can't believe some of what I'm reading on this thread. I've been away from Bristol for a few days (the original plan was to return via Leicester, before they moved the game) so I've only been able to read about the game from national sources - BBC Sport and website, national press reports etc. And the general drift of all of them was that Leicester were on top for most of the game, Marvin scored our equaliser, and David James pulled off a number of important/brave/class saves to keep us in the game. Then I get back to Bristol to find that, apparently, they are all wrong!! I guess I shouldn't be too surprised: the depressing theme of much of this forum recently seems to have been so called City fans queuing up to criticise and abuse our own players. I don't know if people think that the players don't read this stuff, cos they do, and frankly I wouldn't blame most of them at the moment for wondering why they bother. We're all very fond of the old mantra that players couldn't care less about the club, are only in it for the money etc. Well it's a two way thing - and it's about time that we started to show a bit of support to the players. Launching into personal attackes on individual players after every game is getting boring and achieves nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I can't believe some of what I'm reading on this thread. I've been away from Bristol for a few days (the original plan was to return via Leicester, before they moved the game) so I've only been able to read about the game from national sources - BBC Sport and website, national press reports etc. And the general drift of all of them was that Leicester were on top for most of the game, Marvin scored our equaliser, and David James pulled off a number of important/brave/class saves to keep us in the game. Then I get back to Bristol to find that, apparently, they are all wrong!! I guess I shouldn't be too surprised: the depressing theme of much of this forum recently seems to have been so called City fans queuing up to criticise and abuse our own players. I don't know if people think that the players don't read this stuff, cos they do, and frankly I wouldn't blame most of them at the moment for wondering why they bother. We're all very fond of the old mantra that players couldn't care less about the club, are only in it for the money etc. Well it's a two way thing - and it's about time that we started to show a bit of support to the players. Launching into personal attackes on individual players after every game is getting boring and achieves nothing. Spot on. We may not be doing too well, but but some of our so-called fans seem to want to damage the team more than opposition supporters do. Shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonwheeler Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Spot on. We may not be doing too well, but but some of our so-called fans seem to want to damage the team more than opposition supporters do. Shameful. There is no "SO CALLED" support about it? The vast majority of contributors who have been brave enough to stand up against the "rose tinted" WE LOVE DAVID brigade are supporters of long standing (40 plus years in my case alone) so please do not insult others who just may have a differing opinion to your own? I have supported come what may, through thick and (a hell of a lot) of thin and in my humble opinion CALAMITY has neither made a massive improvement to the team or appears to have either his team mates or the club as a whole at heart? So whilst I appreciate certain peoples views that at the similar age as I have been supporting City CALAMITY may be seen as the Worlds answer to all goalkeepers in my view he is an OVERPAID, POMPOUS, OVER RATED, DONKEYS BEHIND who is at Ashton solely to line his (already) rich pockets. Myself and others have no wish to "damage" our beloved team and I am not ashamed to make my feelings known, even "if" they dont always agree with the vast majority. We are all entitled to our opinions. After all its what makes our game what it is today. KABISH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Why are some people going crazy over James? Saying he's the best keeper in the league etc is just idiotic. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with Gerken - he's a decent young keeper. I can't help but feel the money spent on David James could have gone to a good creative midfielder or something. A position that actually needed to be addressed in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 but has let it in the net 170 times or so in 2 and a bit seasons. The season Charlton got relegated from the Premier League, Scott Carson let in a lot of goals. He had a shots/goals percentage higher than Paul Robinson and Brad Friedel amongst others. Just one that stuck in my mind. You're under the somewhat pathetic illusion that good goalkeepers only play for good teams. Totally agree. We weren't even on the look out for a 'keeper. Also wrong. Sexstone came out and said we had put in a bid for Lee Grant, a substantial amount, just before DJ signed. So all the money that could have gone on 'a creative midfielder', a 'left back' and so on would have actually gone on a keeper who hadn't just come back from England World Cup duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 One more thing. Didn't want to edit this into the other post cause it won't get noticed. David James has made 193 saves in 32 games this season. This season we've conceded exactly 1.5 goals/game. Last season, in 39 games, Dean Gerken made 196 saves. Last season we conceded 1.41 goals/game, so if we extrapolate that's about 4 goals less a season. So all in all, about the same amount of goals conceded. David James has almost reached Gerken's total with 7 games remaining in a side conceding the same amount of goals. When you consider at Burnley, they had 15 shots on target, at S****horpe, they had 11 shots on target - if we have another one of those on Tuesday, James will comfortably overtake Gerken with 6 games to spare, potentially in the end giving him a far superior saves/goals ratio. Also perhaps bare in mind the last time Gerken was involved in a relegation scrap - when Colchester finished bottom only 3 years ago, he made 183 saves in 40 game, a season in which they conceded over 80 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 So whilst I appreciate certain peoples views that at the similar age as I have been supporting City CALAMITY may be seen as the Worlds answer to all goalkeepers in my view he is an OVERPAID, POMPOUS, OVER RATED, DONKEYS BEHIND who is at Ashton solely to line his (already) rich pockets. And thank you simonwheeler for making my point so eloquently! Of course this game and this forum is all about opinions, and I don't think anyone's denying that. The opinion that we might have spent the cash on a midfielder or a striker, instead of a keeper rightly generates plenty of discussion, and is one that I'm still undecided about. The opinion that you judge players on the basis of stats (I believe KM is a strong believer of that) is fair enough - although I would point out that on the basis of the number of saves DJ is the best keeper in the Chamionship this season. But if I want a bilious personal attack on the character of an individual City player dressed up as opinion then I can go to the gas forum for that. Do you know David James? If not (and I somehow suspect not) then on what do you base your judgement of him as pompous? On what he looks like when you watch him play? How would you like to be judged on what you look like? Overpaid - probably, but then the same could be said of 95% of Prem and Championship players - and as has been pointed out that's the Club's choice, not his. And at least he uses his wealth to support some of those less fortunate in this world, rather than the likes of Mercedes Benz and William Hill. Over-rated: - yes, that's an opinion, and fans will always have different views about that. Depends partly where you come from - if you're a Barcelona fan you probably take a different view of a player than if you're a Barnet fan. And I think that what gets me about DJ specifically. We are a very average Chamionship club. We're not Barcelona, we're not Liverpool, we're not even Fulham! And here's a guy who has a proud record of playing for his country, who has 2 of the 4 longest consecutive appearances records ever in the Premier League, who on the basis of those two facts alone is clearly very highly rated by a lot of people who know an awful lot about football. But here at average Chamionship side Bristol City we think he's not good enough for us. Donkeys behind: well I won't even comment on that. The point I was trying to make is that even now, even after his international career and his Premier League career are over, the overwhelming "independant" view - from the national dailies, from SSN, from BBC news etc, is that DJ is doing a decent job for us. And yet on this forum of all places - the forum for Bristol City fans, there are people who seem to delight in slagging him off (as they do other City players), not only on the basis of his performance but also his character. As I've said, I'd expect that if I went to the gas forum, but not here. And from what I've read recently I'm not the only person who's had just about enough of it. Does anyone know if there are other City forums where there's the kind of debate that we use to get on here, rahther than the weekly "that game just proves how crap James/Skuse/Johnson/Macca etc is" comment. I've noticed recently that the club no longer posts links to the OS on this forum, and have to say I'm not surprised: I really think that the sort of negative and often personal, stuff on here can be doing nothing for squad and club morale and perhaps otib is now getting sidelined by the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 IMO we have 3 very good keepers in our squad, something that we should all be gratefull for. I would also add that at this moment in time, James is the best option. Ive just looked at the leicester highlights and you could say that James could of held the ball in all honesty for the first goal, although at full stretch on what looked like a fairly zippy surface. You could also question the fact that Elliott got turned by what i can only describe as an ocean liner! The fact that the defenders didnt get across to the front post to block the ball before James intervention. And finally that leading upto the goal there was a foul throw. I would also point out the saves James made. 2 or 3 one on ones, a finger tipped save from a dangerous drive and a save just before they scored the 1st from a header. IMO his age or wage do not come into it( although he had much better financial offers from elsewhere!), its what he brings to the party and that is a wealth of experience, as well as being a very good keeper. PS sorry for the signature!!! its on my list to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Risk Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Why are some people going crazy over James? Saying he's the best keeper in the league etc is just idiotic. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with Gerken - he's a decent young keeper. I can't help but feel the money spent on David James could have gone to a good creative midfielder or something. A position that actually needed to be addressed in the first place. Those saying he is the best keeper in the league are totally deluded....i dont even think he is in the top 5......way past his best and as for being a brilliant organiser, jesus wepps if we have been organised this season hate to see it when we are a shambles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 IMO we have 3 very good keepers in our squad, something that we should all be gratefull for. I would also add that at this moment in time, James is the best option. Ive just looked at the leicester highlights and you could say that James could of held the ball in all honesty for the first goal, although at full stretch on what looked like a fairly zippy surface. You could also question the fact that Elliott got turned by what i can only describe as an ocean liner! The fact that the defenders didnt get across to the front post to block the ball before James intervention. And finally that leading upto the goal there was a foul throw. I would also point out the saves James made. 2 or 3 one on ones, a finger tipped save from a dangerous drive and a save just before they scored the 1st from a header. IMO his age or wage do not come into it( although he had much better financial offers from elsewhere!), its what he brings to the party and that is a wealth of experience, as well as being a very good keeper. PS sorry for the signature!!! its on my list to do! Just have the heads ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 There is no "SO CALLED" support about it? The vast majority of contributors who have been brave enough to stand up against the "rose tinted" WE LOVE DAVID brigade are supporters of long standing (40 plus years in my case alone) so please do not insult others who just may have a differing opinion to your own? I have supported come what may, through thick and (a hell of a lot) of thin and in my humble opinion CALAMITY has neither made a massive improvement to the team or appears to have either his team mates or the club as a whole at heart? So whilst I appreciate certain peoples views that at the similar age as I have been supporting City CALAMITY may be seen as the Worlds answer to all goalkeepers in my view he is an OVERPAID, POMPOUS, OVER RATED, DONKEYS BEHIND who is at Ashton solely to line his (already) rich pockets. Myself and others have no wish to "damage" our beloved team and I am not ashamed to make my feelings known, even "if" they dont always agree with the vast majority. We are all entitled to our opinions. After all its what makes our game what it is today. KABISH You get offended by the suggestion that negative behaviour from fans (scapegoating, unfair crtiticism, personal insults, etc ...) is not what I would consider to be supporting the team. You ask not to be insulted, but then you launch in to a highly personal attack on our goalkeeper. You can obviously give out criticism, but clearly can't take it. If DJ was after money, he would have joined Sunderland or Celtic, who would have paid twice as much as we did. I do not aim my criticism at people who have a different opinion to me on whether DJ is a good keeper or not. It is purely aimed at those that make unfair personal attacks on our players, manager or chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Some simple maths: David James - 193 saves, 48 goals conceded = 4.02 saves/goal Dean Gerken - 196 saves, 64 goals conceded = 3.06 saves/goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 We never needed James. Henderson was the future and this should have been his season between sticks. What I have said right from the start. Undoubtedly a good keeper, but we just didn't need him, and the money could have been better used strengthening other parts of the team. And if we lose Henderson cheaply, the long-term cost will have been far greater than any short-term benefits. Bit like when we signed Jan Moller, and look what happened that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Some simple maths: David James - 193 saves, 48 goals conceded = 4.02 saves/goal Dean Gerken - 196 saves, 64 goals conceded = 3.06 saves/goal Thoroughly pointless stats, in my opinion. Bear in mind that James earns (I would guess) about three times (minimum) what Gerken earns, so I'd expect him to produce a whole lot better than the sort of performances he's produced for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john shaws hair Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thoroughly pointless stats, in my opinion. Bear in mind that James earns (I would guess) about three times (minimum) what Gerken earns, so I'd expect him to produce a whole lot better than the sort of performances he's produced for us. spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thoroughly pointless stats, in my opinion. Bullshit. A goalkeeper is paid to save shots. And James is saving a third more than Gerken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Bullshit. A goalkeeper is paid to save shots. And James is saving a third more than Gerken. He's also paid to build a strong and productive relationship with his outfield players and there's no evidence of that. Anyway, this thread isn't about whether James is better than Gerken - it's simply about whether or not it's a good thing James plays for us. I think, on balance, that it isn't, in view of the wages he's costing us which could be put to better use elsewhere in the team. And I've thought that since the day we signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 He's also paid to build a strong and productive relationship with his outfield players and there's no evidence of that. Ah yes, no evidence of something relatively untangible. Basso and Orr used to exchange pleasantries on a regular basis yet he was a superb goalkeeper for us. Going by his experience knowledge and seeing his vociferousness first hand during games, and how he is the first to congratulate a last-ditch tackle from his defence etc. I would also entirely disagree with your statement. He is undeniably predominantly here to save shots. Which he's doing at a far superior rate than Dean Gerken was last season. We finished 10th last year. We're shipping goals for fun this year but our goalkeeper is making 1/3 more saves for every goal that we've conceded. If it weren't for situations outside of James' control then that kind of statistic could be the difference between 10th and being in contention for promotion - or our current predicament and relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 I reckon you could have any keeper in the division behind that defence, it wouldn't make a difference to where we currently stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Stumbled across this thread again. Regarding James, yes markedly better goals/saves ratio than Gerken. No argument there. However, Basso 2007/08- pretty similar really as I expected. It's findable on ESPN soccernet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Marsh Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Did this thread really need to be bumed? One of the worst threads this season. Awful read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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