Nogbad the Bad Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Ralphy, look someone else calling you negative, careful your getting a reputation He's getting a reputation from a couple of posters even though he goes to great pains to explain his point of view and provides facts and even links for others to refer to and follow. Ralph has posted convincingly on both threads and there is nothing negative whatsoever in his posts. Labelling someone 'negative' often seems to be the last resort of someone who has been outargued and simply has no other comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman Sam Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Not high enough stakes for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtonvale Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 He's getting a reputation from a couple of posters even though he goes to great pains to explain his point of view and provides facts and even links for others to refer to and follow. Ralph has posted convincingly on both threads and there is nothing negative whatsoever in his posts. Labelling someone 'negative' often seems to be the last resort of someone who has been outargued and simply has no other comeback. Well Noggers as you've responded I'll give you my take on Ralph's post. Before the guy has even signed he's being written off. Quote: Tries hard, gives his all but ultimately not up to this league seems to be the general concensus - according to SOME florist fans Ralph has talked to.. how many? is this an extensive survey? I wonder if I tried hard would I find a couple who rated the kid. Quote Sawyer mark two: - what was wrong with Sawyer? He came in and did a covering job (2 starts?) for us in a position we were weak in at the time and has moved on. Quote: Made the 2008 ( for 2007/8) League One Team of the season. has played only 25 games since the end of that season, despite 'only' being out for 18 months of 3 years! - So what .. he was injured.. I presume he would have a medical if he did join and the medical staff would have to make sure he was up to the job. Quote not exactly awe inspiring - who said he had to be.. if we need cover then isn't it a question of getting someone who can do a job for us.. whilst still looking for the right guy to bring in, however if this chap proves himself, then who knows, maybe his loan becomes permanent, that is if he does sign. Quote: Will give him the benefit of the doubt, but it does strike of looking backwards rather than forwards in terms of 'development' we don't have a good record of signing players who have been injury prone and them helping us in recent times.. So why are we going there again? - Classic, Ralph gives him the benefit of the doubt (and giving himself an out if he does do well) whilst running the management down at the same time. Overall, and of course, in my humble opinion, NEGATIVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Well Noggers as you've responded I'll give you my take on Ralph's post. Before the guy has even signed he's being written off. Quote: Tries hard, gives his all but ultimately not up to this league seems to be the general concensus - according to SOME florist fans Ralph has talked to.. how many? is this an extensive survey? I wonder if I tried hard would I find a couple who rated the kid. Quote Sawyer mark two: - what was wrong with Sawyer? He came in and did a covering job (2 starts?) for us in a position we were weak in at the time and has moved on. Quote: Made the 2008 ( for 2007/8) League One Team of the season. has played only 25 games since the end of that season, despite 'only' being out for 18 months of 3 years! - So what .. he was injured.. I presume he would have a medical if he did join and the medical staff would have to make sure he was up to the job. Quote not exactly awe inspiring - who said he had to be.. if we need cover then isn't it a question of getting someone who can do a job for us.. whilst still looking for the right guy to bring in, however if this chap proves himself, then who knows, maybe his loan becomes permanent, that is if he does sign. Quote: Will give him the benefit of the doubt, but it does strike of looking backwards rather than forwards in terms of 'development' we don't have a good record of signing players who have been injury prone and them helping us in recent times.. So why are we going there again? - Classic, Ralph gives him the benefit of the doubt (and giving himself an out if he does do well) whilst running the management down at the same time. Overall, and of course, in my humble opinion, NEGATIVE. I was more talking about the other thread, AV, and the practice of putting together views expressed there with comments on this one to form a jugdement on a poster and labelling him as negative. I was fully in agreement with Ralph on the other thread and could see no negativity on his part. So whether you consider him to be 'negative' on this one or not (I don't) he is certainly not a serial doom merchant based on these two threads. You have now opened this one up to further debate by expressing your opinion which is of far more interest to the reader than simply calling someone else's contribution negative. I'll leave Ralph to answer your points if he wants to. You spoiled it a bit at the end with such prominent use of your favourite word mind you. Earlier in the thread billywedlock gets the same accusation and it seems that anything that isn't overtly positive is jumped on by some posters as unworthy and dismissed in quite an unpleasant manner. This lowers the tone of the debate imo and puts posters who have made reasonable points on the defensive for no good reason. As for Julian Bennett - not an auspicious name after Julian Watts but no doubt if he does sign we'll all hope for the best and get behind him until he goes again in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Actually I saw him 3 times this season at Palace, and confirm what the people who saw his full loan spell did, he is rubbish. On what basis do you think he is a good signing ? City through and through by the way. He is a bad signing based on his form this season. You have decided he is a good player based on what exactly, obviously not his form in the Championship. You been training with him? You coached him? You have no argument stated and your intelligence is in question as you decided to throw personal insults at me as your only defence. As you have done again by saying I am gas. I am more worried about the player, based on his terrible form for a club that is below us in the league, form that is very recent and well documented. So if anyone is a nodding dog it is you. Without seeing him play you beleive he is a good signing. You now our chief scout? I never said he would be a good signing,i said i would reserve judgement until i seen him myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman Block B Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 This on our favourite transfer rumour site............... 21 Feb 2011 20:24:51 Billy Davies is happy to let Julian Bennett go on loan to the end of the season, with a view to a permanant move. JB has little chance of first team football with Forest and the player is keen on the move. JB has had major injury problems over the past couple of seasons but now is match fit and would love the chance to hold a first team place with a championship club. The move comes after left back Jamie McCallister will be out for up to 6 weeks at Bristol with a rib injury and here he is in action....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Please would you care to explain, giving details from accounts from Florist and CP fans plus a link to the CP forums regarding Bennett is somehow negative? You will have to confirm as to how we were already have let go a covering left back this season (Under Millen) and are now in the process of signing the 3rd one within a calendar year as to how this is progress though Its not forward looking because its a reactive loan (if it comes off) to the situation at hand that prolongs things rather than improves them. Instead of going to find some one better than the player injured we have gone for another injury prone player to provide cover for a position that has been identified by all and sundry as being a problem in the first place. How is that in any way solving things? What happens if the replacement gets crocked (as is likely) we have more wages to pay and nothing to show for it as we will have to get another loanee or shufty about with playing players in the wrong place again. That isnt negative. Its confirming the possible outcomes of any potential deal for the player. And a number of fans from 2 clubs one of which he is a life long fan of say he hasnt got it at this level but is a trier. We have one of them in Nyatanga, we also have Fontaine who can play on the left whilst Caulker and Cisse or Stewart or whoever play in the middle. The players and the positions are there. So why instead of not improving the squad are we merely providing cover for it and paying out needless wages for players we dont need in the interim. What we need is better, not cover or worse. So if that is somehow negative then Iam all ears. Cheers Perhaps the player Millen wants isn't available until the summer but we need someone as cover and williams wasn't the answer. The major problem with this is we haven't had competition for left back for years. I may be wrong here but wasn't Craig Woodman our last proper covering left back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtonvale Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I was more talking about the other thread, AV, and the practice of putting together views expressed there with comments on this one to form a jugdement on a poster and labelling him as negative. I was fully in agreement with Ralph on the other thread and could see no negativity on his part. So whether you consider him to be 'negative' on this one or not (I don't) he is certainly not a serial doom merchant based on these two threads. You have now opened this one up to further debate by expressing your opinion which is of far more interest to the reader than simply calling someone else's contribution negative. I'll leave Ralph to answer your points if he wants to. You spoiled it a bit at the end with such prominent use of your favourite word mind you. Earlier in the thread billywedlock gets the same accusation and it seems that anything that isn't overtly positive is jumped on by some posters as unworthy and dismissed in quite an unpleasant manner. This lowers the tone of the debate imo and puts posters who have made reasonable points on the defensive for no good reason. As for Julian Bennett - not an auspicious name after Julian Watts but no doubt if he does sign we'll all hope for the best and get behind him until he goes again in May. Well i'm still awaiting an answer on at least one of the points in the last discussion we had, but at the time I decided to let it go as we were all 'talked out' and he'd started to call me names. I guess I was reacting to what I saw as negativity (almost got through the post without saying it) for the sake of it. Its a loan of a left back. Keef feels we need someone, I have to say I agree, we don't know what Keefs longer term plans are. Why can't we see how it plays out. Welcome him if he does sign and encourage him to play well if he's called upon to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yeah Yeah Yeah, can we get back to the betting please??? :winner_third_h4h: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 well done to the club for acting so fast!! Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 any player even just to cover until the end of the season is better then playing somone out of postion, JB may not be the best player in the world but he would come here in the shop window so would want to impress to try and win a contract here or at another club, Other players have come here and people have ask "Why are we signing him for" Albert and Stead are perfect examples, If he comes here and gives 100% I'm happy as he would be giving about 50% effort then most of our first team at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifelong Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 This on our favourite transfer rumour site............... 21 Feb 2011 20:24:51 Billy Davies is happy to let Julian Bennett go on loan to the end of the season, with a view to a permanant move. JB has little chance of first team football with Forest and the player is keen on the move. JB has had major injury problems over the past couple of seasons but now is match fit and would love the chance to hold a first team place with a championship club. The move comes after left back Jamie McCallister will be out for up to 6 weeks at Bristol with a rib injury and here he is in action....... Lets hope that wasn`t one of his better crosses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 and here he is in action....... Nice skill. You don't see Jamie Mac showboating like that too often! Shame about the cross ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Been on loan at Palace before xmas, was shocking, fallen out of favour with Billy Davies possibly Only played 25 games in 3 seasons, and is injury prone. Not inspired, but if true will see what can bring as long as can stay fit for more than 6 secs Sounds like a good balance for Nicky Hunt then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betelgeuse Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 any player even just to cover until the end of the season is better then playing somone out of postion, JB may not be the best player in the world but he would come here in the shop window so would want to impress to try and win a contract here or at another club, Other players have come here and people have ask "Why are we signing him for" Albert and Stead are perfect examples, If he comes here and gives 100% I'm happy as he would be giving about 50% effort then most of our first team at the moment I'm ok I guess but I have to say right back is my prefered position! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-H Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Oops. £500 on it's way to...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi Ashtonvale thanks for taking the time to respond to my post to further the discussion I will add the following as you seem to want to pick apart the minutae. 1. Ive spoken to some forest fans, who have seen the player many times. There are several friends from Mansfield who follow the Florist, some fans in my own family and some on social networking sites. Within that bunch you have some casuals. some die hards and some season ticket holders. A nice spread as to which to garner a view of how the player is. They say pretty much the same thing. How many in number doesnt make it any more or less right, I was just passing on the view as people could find it of interest. 2. Sawyer played about 2 games for us during his spell vs Derby and Blackpool, when we had cover for him in the shape of the ability to change formation or put players in different positions like we do know as cover. He split opinion on here iirc with some saying he was a complete waste of space and others saying sign him up. Bennett if he was to sign on loan would likely create similar comparisions if he was to get a game, given the feedback from Forest fans and the linked thread for CP and indeed some views on Id say that the comparision to being Sawyer Mk II was a fair and just one. 3, Regarding the injury problems. We have a track record of signing players with injury problems and them not really doing anything of note and end up being released, thus wasting cash that could be spent better else where. Two of the more obvious examples of players who despite all their promise spent more time injured than anything else are Bridges and Matthews, We currently have a sick note of a RB in Ribeiro despite all his promise and seem, to have at least one player irrespective of management or league who is some what injury prone, Brooker being another in times gone by and so on. The reason I've highlighted the player of the year thing is because it has been mentioned several times before my post that he was player of the year 2010 when that is incorrect. This was confirmation of the correct information. Going back to the injury thing, we signed a RB at the start of the season who was an experienced Premier League Fullback, but had been out for a long time following serious injury he has also played roughly the same number of games as Bennett since the end of 2007/8 season. That player has been widely rounded on as being one of the worst players to ever grace a City shirt.. Bennett has no real experience at this level or higher and the games he has played for CP and for Forest at this level, going back to the evidence presented in my above post is suggestive that he could be the same as the other signing we made. So again it is a fair point to point out. Its backed up with empirical and anecdotal evidence. So how is that being something of a negative person. 4, If it comes off it isnt an awe inspiring signing, Millen has already let go a fullback who could do similar and has played more games at this level in the form of Tom Williams. He too was also not rated as being very good by PNE fans from him playing their last season and Ive spoken to quite a few of them, and the general concensus is he was rubbish He was also not rated by a fair few here, Swansea Fans and so on. We had him on a short term deal, and if we needed the cover why was he not kept on. he is currently bench warming for Walsall afaik. That is one side of the coin for sure another way of looking it at is is as follows Instead of using this opportunity to play 1 of 3 players we have who can play at left back we already have, we are going out of our way to potentially spend more money on a player who isnt as good as what we have, in a position we already have cover for. What we could have and should have done potentially is look for someone better to replace McAllister. He is roundly pilliored on here for not being up to the task so why not use the opportunity to bring in some one better. We have a scouting network, why arent we better utilising it. There are players here and abroad that could and would do a job for us, so why then are we potentially looking backwards rather than forwards to sign some one at this time, I cant see how using this to find some one better is in anyway a 'negative forcast' again perhaps you will have to explain that too me. 5. Please explain how questioning signing injury prone players given our record ( see point 3 above) with injury prone players whatever is somehow a dig at the current management set up. Again its another issue, that appears to be endemic at the club and is not relative to one manager nor regime yet has yet to be properly addressed. I hope that this answers your queries regarding my initial posts and unless we sign the fella I dont think Ive got much more to say on the subject. As per other posts, you will have to define how any of that is indeed negative. With regards to answering your previous points and name calling you mentioned, which posts are you referring to specifically. If you mean this thread, Ive said all Iam going to say on that, and said as much in the linked post because it wasn;t going anywhere for the reasons I mentioned in post Please excuse me with regards to this name calling as I cannot find any. Is there something else that you are refering specifically to. Many Thanks Terrycoopersmagic, when you mean covering left back do you mean as in one who could play for the first team and that was their sole position? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtonvale Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Ralphys post here Cant be ass*ed to debate it Ralphy, I'm tired and very happy after a great result tonight Pulling for the boys to do it again on Sat against Scunny. It'll be a massive game and I'm hoping AG will be rocking and push the boys on to what would be a brilliant win. Onwards and upwards COYR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJS_Cider_Army Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 BUMP Taking along time to announce this 'done deal'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II Wurzel II Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 BUMP Taking along time to announce this 'done deal'. What the signing or the £500 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_Lemon Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Im still waiting for my £500, i've had no reply from the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdc Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 BUMP Taking along time to announce this 'done deal'. I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Still got until Monday! Which way will the £500 go, my sources on e-mail at work suggest there could be some truth in it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 £500 please?!??? Don't want it myself but please donate it to the atyeo statue fund Cheers Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky89 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Or at least to help the people of Christchurch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzred Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Or at least to help the people of Christchurch. I will give you my address Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 It's fallen through cos someone else nipped in and got him after it was seen posted about his availability on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Or at least to help the people of Christchurch. Or the starving and poverty stricken Sierra Leone? Sorry, but as tragic as the earthquake is, Their needs will never be as great as the poorest regions of africa. Average life expectancy for women is 42 in Sierra Leone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Or the starving and poverty stricken Sierra Leone? Sorry, but as tragic as the earthquake is, Their needs will never be as great as the poorest regions of africa. Average life expectancy for women is 42 in Sierra Leone... Which country do you think will receive more aid in food and water over the next two months? As tragic as life conditions are in Africa, it's not like they are assisted in anyway by other countries and corporations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 What a difference a year makes, A year ago Bennett signed a contract extension at Florest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.