Excellent Independent Write Up On Norwich Game

[Coach]

http://theseventytwo.com/football-league/championship/2011/03/15/norwich-city-3-bristol-city-1-a-tactical-perspective/

I agree with much of this and especially the view that Millen did well with his tactical changes during the game, which augurs well for the future. I'm a supporter of KM.

For me, basically we lack quality and last night's performances absolutely summed up the views I have built up from seeing this season's matches. From the back:

Fontaine & Nyatanga - plus Stewart for that matter - are very basic in possession, barely Championship standard. The result of a ball going to them is almost always a hoof forward. Add in their chronic lack of pace and their level of defending ability being no more than passable for this league and for me they aren't good enough if we want to progress, although you do have to remember how young they are. McAllister, when he returns, is little better in possession and this lack of technical ability really hampers our ability to build attacks. Spence (and Ribeiro) are both very good going forward, in my opinion, and Spence particularly always looks for a neat pass instead of an aimless whack, but they aren't the greatest defenders. However, in this day and age I'd say this was the norm for full backs and would be happy for either to be our chosen RB (I think Spence was unnerved by firstly being way out of position in the build up to last night's penalty then getting booked early, contributing to a poor night for the lad)

Elliott also is very poor in possession. A consistently shocking first touch plus an inability to get his head up before hopefully helping the ball forward means he'll surely never play at a higher level. A pity because his passion and desire to win every ball and get on the end of things is inspirational. (Cisse looks just a bit better, a little cleverer, but again his first touch is not Prem quality)

Clarkson is an intelligent player but for me just not sharp enough, nor quite good enough technically. Takes too many touches, which slows play down, and often his first touch lets him down. Does however have vision and can pick out lovely passes when given time. As with Elliott, surely playing at his highest level.

It was hard to watch last night the basic inabilities of some of our players up against the skill and cleverness of Hoolahan. He was leagues apart and far too good for us.

[Red Exile]

that is indeed an excellent write up. Thanks for posting it.

[The Bard]

that is indeed an excellent write up. Thanks for posting it.

It was spot on and Millen more than anyone else will be aware of the deficiencies we have. Lambert is destined for great things. He had an excellent playing career and would have learned loads playing for Bayern Munich - a large club still run by football people as opposed to foreign gangsters and asset strippers.

[Busterrimes]

It was spot on and Millen more than anyone else will be aware of the deficiencies we have. Lambert is destined for great things. He had an excellent playing career and would have learned loads playing for Bayern Munich - a large club still run by football people as opposed to foreign gangsters and asset strippers.

Good point Lambert has played in Germany but for Dortmund and won the Champions League with them. He was also lucky enough to learn great Man-management from Martin O'Neill

[Redhyde]

Read the article think it missed a few tactical points.

While operating as a diamond (and didn't they work hard, a point many missed) the pretty much allowed Hoolahan to have a roaming role which he cleverly mainly stayed on the left for, pinning back Spence and Adomah. Especially after Spence got booked Adomah spent much of his time defending, and thats another reason we didnt have any outlets to keep the ball.

However on the other flank, that meant we had alot of space. If you noticed everytime Woolford got the ball he had time to run with it, but he's the one winger without the pace or ability to take people on it seems. Where the goal came from where the break came from, was having pace, in that space. Keith saw that and adapted, great.

David clarkson sitting deep... now you've got access to football manager, and you put a slow creative player, in the exact same space on the pitch as a quick holding player... that's not tactically clever at all. He was swamped on the few occasions he even got close to it.

The other horrendous tactical decision was to pump high balls up to Maynard and Clarkson, even the couple of times they won it, there's noone there. It didnt change, so either it's instructed or not noticed. Worrying either way.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The problem was that Millen stayed with 3 at the back when it clearly was not working, Spence could'nt come terms with playing as a wing back and Woolford was nullified. The substitutes were puzzling not the players but the positions they were asked to play in. Adomah was pushed forward and JCR was given a central midfield role and Pitman employed as a wing FFS, Millen still stayed with the 3 at the back and having got back into the game, instead then reverting to a flat back 4 and bringing Adomah back into midfield for 5 across the middle, to see the game out, He stayed with 3 at the back, when it was clearly not working, was not going to work and will never work with the defenders at our disposal. Anything else is just an excuse, the tactics were wrong and were never changed and exacerbated by playing players out of position in a poorly thought out formation.

[Mr Popodopolous]

[Robbored]

The other horrendous tactical decision was to pump high balls up to Maynard and Clarkson, even the couple of times they won it, there's noone there. It didnt change, so either it's instructed or not noticed. Worrying either way.

Absoloutley spot on. Personally I loath long balls 'over the top' or 'in to the channels' especially when they come from defenders. 90% of the time its a complete waste.

I've always tended to blame the players as I find it hard to accept that any manager would instruct his players to play that way. Its so obvious that its a low percentage tactic that they simply wouldn't use it.

That said I well remember Millen as a defender and he was one of the worst at hoofing the ball aimlessly up the pitch. You would think that having seen the whooosh up pitch not being effective during his playing days that he would fine his players if they did it these days.

[lifelong]

The trouble is the alternative is pass and move and on the evidence of Monday we could neither>

[Coach]

Absoloutley spot on. Personally I loath long balls 'over the top' or 'in to the channels' especially when they come from defenders. 90% of the time its a complete waste.

I've always tended to blame the players as I find it hard to accept that any manager would instruct his players to play that way. Its so obvious that its a low percentage tactic that they simply wouldn't use it.

That said I well remember Millen as a defender and he was one of the worst at hoofing the ball aimlessly up the pitch. You would think that having seen the whooosh up pitch not being effective during his playing days that he would fine his players if they did it these days.

I think it is down to the players (in general). If it isn't how come those comfortable on the ball don't do it often and those who aren't comfortable do it regularly? Spence I don't think I've seen him lump it aimlessly in two games and last Tuesday against Pompey in the second half I particularly noticed he had a number of opportunities to "get rid". He never did, he always looked for a clever pass or tried to hold on until someone was available. Against Norwich he tried that again but was less successful but I applauded him for trying. Caulker also will bring the ball forward when there's space and he's certainly not averse to passing through the midfield. Compare that with Nyatanga and Fontaine; the slightest bit of pressure around them and it's a big whack. Fontaine can actually play a good long ball given time but it's the regular aimless punts which let him down.

I think the passing ability and confidence of the defenders has a bigger effect than most people realise on how a team plays.

[Mad Cyril]

I think it is down to the players (in general). If it isn't how come those comfortable on the ball don't do it often and those who aren't comfortable do it regularly? Spence I don't think I've seen him lump it aimlessly in two games and last Tuesday against Pompey in the second half I particularly noticed he had a number of opportunities to "get rid". He never did, he always looked for a clever pass or tried to hold on until someone was available. Against Norwich he tried that again but was less successful but I applauded him for trying. Caulker also will bring the ball forward when there's space and he's certainly not averse to passing through the midfield. Compare that with Nyatanga and Fontaine; the slightest bit of pressure around them and it's a big whack. Fontaine can actually play a good long ball given time but it's the regular aimless punts which let him down.

I think the passing ability and confidence of the defenders has a bigger effect than most people realise on how a team plays.

For me the frustration is always the lack of movement in front of the back 4 when one of the defenders has the ball. Take a glance next time the full back has the ball - no one is moving into space or coming to take the ball (Lee Johnson was the closest we had to this) - its all musical statues ahead of them, boots stuck in concrete.

Not being funny, I can look the best passer of the ball and a true exponant of total football if one of my team mates puts a shift in, makes some movement and gives me a simple option - Arsenal always have one player offering this, Barcelona always have 3. If no one moves though, what do you do as the last player? You certainly dont risk giving the ball away in your half......

[Coach]

For me the frustration is always the lack of movement in front of the back 4 when one of the defenders has the ball. Take a glance next time the full back has the ball - no one is moving into space or coming to take the ball (Lee Johnson was the closest we had to this) - its all musical statues ahead of them, boots stuck in concrete.

Take your point, absolutely, but I do think Cisse is now always available and asking for it. Maybe we should take particular note of this area on Saturday, see if anyone is indeed available.

[BCFC_Dan]

The other horrendous tactical decision was to pump high balls up to Maynard and Clarkson, even the couple of times they won it, there's noone there. It didnt change, so either it's instructed or not noticed. Worrying either way.

Long balls are an inevitability at times at this level and will be used at one time or another by all teams with the possible exception of Swansea.

Norwich had the advantage of having a player capable of making something out of them (Grant Holt) which, I think, makes them a little less noticeable. If one of their defenders hits Holt with a 50 yard pass and he holds it up then lays it off to an attacking midfielder, starting off a passing movement, it looks like decent football. If one of ours hits the ball long towards Maynard, he fails to hold it, and it comes straight back, it looks crap.

Norwich's pressing all over the pitch (which without wanting to make ridiculous comparisons reminded me somewhat of Barcelona) stopped City from getting any kind of short passing going. The options at that point are either to work harder and pass better (a good long term aim but unrealistic in the short term) or to have a player who can hold up the ball from long passes. I think we'd have done quite a bit better if Stead had been available but I don't know why Keogh wasn't used, as that is surely what he was signed to do? When it was clear Maynard was getting no joy I'd have brought Keogh on to see if he could hold the ball up a bit better.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Absoloutley spot on. Personally I loath long balls 'over the top' or 'in to the channels' especially when they come from defenders. 90% of the time its a complete waste.

I've always tended to blame the players as I find it hard to accept that any manager would instruct his players to play that way. Its so obvious that its a low percentage tactic that they simply wouldn't use it.

That said I well remember Millen as a defender and he was one of the worst at hoofing the ball aimlessly up the pitch. You would think that having seen the whooosh up pitch not being effective during his playing days that he would fine his players if they did it these days.

Agree in general but there is balls over the and hoof ball, watching Rooney last night picking out Hernandez and Giggs and Nani with long 'over the top' balls was a joy to watch at times and for a counter attacking team it's very effective, the trouble is we have nobody on the books to deliver such passes. Which is strange because counter attacking seems to be our main tactic these days.

To be honest I thought that after the first 25 minutes of the first half we did'nt hoof the ball much at all, until we equalised. The real problem was we haven't got the players capable of playing 3 at the back either and that was obvious very early on but Millen persisted with it which was plain stupid, I really thought he would change it at half time and also (Millen has been criticised for late substitutions) actually made his changes early in this game but never changed the set up which again was wrong, poor old Woolford never had a chance to deliver any sort of offensive pass and I won't mention Pitman playing at wing back (oops). Holt (deemed by many on here not worthy of signing for us when we tried to sign him) really showed how naive our young defence was he bullied all of them and used every trick in the book to get free kicks, I think a fit Carey might have looked after him better than the youngsters.

[SC_Red]

Agree in general but there is balls over the and hoof ball, watching Rooney last night picking out Hernandez and Giggs and Nani with long 'over the top' balls was a joy to watch at times and for a counter attacking team it's very effective, the trouble is we have nobody on the books to deliver such passes. Which is strange because counter attacking seems to be our main tactic these days.

To be honest I thought that after the first 25 minutes of the first half we did'nt hoof the ball much at all, until we equalised. The real problem was we haven't got the players capable of playing 3 at the back either and that was obvious very early on but Millen persisted with it which was plain stupid, I really thought he would change it at half time and also (Millen has been criticised for late substitutions) actually made his changes early in this game but never changed the set up which again was wrong, poor old Woolford never had a chance to deliver any sort of offensive pass and I won't mention Pitman playing at wing back (oops). Holt (deemed by many on here not worthy of signing for us when we tried to sign him) really showed how naive our young defence was he bullied all of them and used every trick in the book to get free kicks, I think a fit Carey might have looked after him better than the youngsters.

3 at the back?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 at the back?

You don't think we played 3 at the back then?.

[SC_Red]

You don't think we played 3 at the back then?.

no.

Nyatanga -------- Fontaine ---------- Caulker ------------ Spence

[Esmond Million's Bung]

So why did Woolford play the whole of the time he was on the pitch playing at left back and Nyatanga played as a central defender for the whole game, because he never once went anywhere near the left back position.

[SC_Red]

So why did Woolford play the whole of the time he was on the pitch playing at left back and Nyatanga played as a central defender for the whole game, because he never once went anywhere near the left back position.

lack of discipline? being pegged back by a better team?

you'd have to ask Millen but it was clearly meant to be a 4 - 4 - 1 - 1 formation

[Esmond Million's Bung]

lack of discipline? being pegged back by a better team?

you'd have to ask Millen but it was clearly meant to be a 4 - 4 - 1 - 1 formation

if that was 4-4-1-1 FFS, Nyatanga was very ill disciplined indeed and also Spence who seemed to be pushing on and getting caught out of position and Millen must be blind, because that was the worst 4-4-1-1 I have ever seen but a great impersonation of an even worse 3-5-1-1.

[Monkeh]

if that was 4-4-1-1 FFS, Nyatanga was very ill disciplined indeed and also Spence who seemed to be pushing on and getting caught out of position and Millen must be blind, because that was the worst 4-4-1-1 I have ever seen but a great impersonation of an even worse 3-5-1-1.

Couldn't work out the formation as we lost our shape after 45 seconds,

It seem to me that we played 8-1-1 in the first half and 6-1-3 in the second half

[spudski]

if that was 4-4-1-1 FFS, Nyatanga was very ill disciplined indeed and also Spence who seemed to be pushing on and getting caught out of position and Millen must be blind, because that was the worst 4-4-1-1 I have ever seen but a great impersonation of an even worse 3-5-1-1.

It wasn't ill dicipline...Defenders are not rigid in where they have to stay. They have to adapt if another defender is out of position or pushing forward. Norwich were exploiting Spence on City's right hand side. The whole back four moves across as one unit. Woolford would drop back into the hole created by Nyatanga to make cover.

Most of Norwich's attacks came down City's right hand side.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

It wasn't ill dicipline...Defenders are not rigid in where they have to stay. They have to adapt if another defender is out of position or pushing forward. Norwich were exploiting Spence on City's right hand side. The whole back four moves across as one unit. Woolford would drop back into the hole created by Nyatanga to make cover.

Most of Norwich's attacks came down City's right hand side.

interesting theory except that even when Norwich attacked down their right/our left Nyatanga was always in a position in line with near post, he rarely if ever in the left back position all night.

We were confused watching, the players were confused playing and manager and coach were just confused.