SC_Red Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I thought for a while you might actually be capable of reasonable debate, but you just can't help yourself can you? Still, on the bright side you racked up half a dozen posts that weren't worshipping Robbored. Well done you. I wasnt the one who resorted to calling someone elses view "bunk" was I? you didnt manage to post half a dozen pots not worshipping yourself. shame on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifelong Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Agreed, Newcastle have a reputation as buying club not a developing club and even then they tried to flop Carroll 12 months earlier on the cheap! Think the fact that when they first had Shearer they stuck him in goal some up newcastle! can't think of another top quality player that Newcastle have produced before Carroll? oh and anyone who suggests Sheola Ameboi will get a slap! Chris Waddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I wasnt the one who resorted to calling someone elses view "bunk" was I? I am terribly sorry for making you feel insecure. I humbly apologise. Any time you're able to provide some sort of substance to back your opinion I'll be delighted to debate it with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifelong Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Agreed, Newcastle have a reputation as buying club not a developing club and even then they tried to flop Carroll 12 months earlier on the cheap! Think the fact that when they first had Shearer they stuck him in goal some up newcastle! can't think of another top quality player that Newcastle have produced before Carroll? oh and anyone who suggests Sheola Ameboi will get a slap! Steve Howey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I am terribly sorry for making you feel insecure. I humbly apologise. Any time you're able to provide some sort of substance to back your opinion I'll be delighted to debate it with you. no apology needed. only someone who thinks they know it all has insecurities. Like someone who claims they know how to assemble a squad, how to referee and how to run the line whilst doing none of them to any sort of standard. as a random example. I already have. you chose to ignore it and bang on about a defender who didnt go for more than £3m to back up your argument rather than listen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateyomike Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 this has slipped a bit from the orginal talking about caulker to maynard but if we sold maynard at any time for what ever price lest learn the lesson of andy cole and make sure we have a % share of sell on fee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Agreed, Newcastle have a reputation as buying club not a developing club and even then they tried to flop Carroll 12 months earlier on the cheap! Think the fact that when they first had Shearer they stuck him in goal some up newcastle! can't think of another top quality player that Newcastle have produced before Carroll? oh and anyone who suggests Sheola Ameboi will get a slap! Stephen Taylor and Steve Harper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Stephen Taylor and Steve Harper? I thought the discussion was about top quality players??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I thought the discussion was about top quality players??? I was told defenders who play in the championship and for the U21s go for well in excess of £3m. Taylor plays in the Prem and captained the U21s so must be worth a lot more surely. Harpers played in the champions league. Is that not for players at the top end of the ability range then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I was told defenders who play in the championship and for the U21s go for well in excess of £3m. No you weren't, I posted the opinion that if Caulker signed for £3m and played well for two years and was still in the under 21s he'd be worth more. Not that all defenders would be. You asked for examples of u-21s capped defenders from the championship going for more than £3m and you'd already been provided with one. As well as examples of midfielders and forwards. There are more examples but what's the point in digging them up? You disregard them and you were unable to provide a single example to support your view that clubs who don't have a track record of producing young players and selling them for big bucks will get less money. Your opinion isn't really based on data or any real thinking is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I was told defenders who play in the championship and for the U21s go for well in excess of £3m. Taylor plays in the Prem and captained the U21s so must be worth a lot more surely. Harpers played in the champions league. Is that not for players at the top end of the ability range then? Harper was the perminent number two when Shay Given was at Newcastle and Taylor is almost as bad as Titus Bramble - hopeless and a regular laughing stock. The fact that Harper played in the Champions League ( I didn't know he had) means zilch. Lots of average players have played in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 No you weren't, I posted the opinion that if Caulker signed for £3m and played well for two years and was still in the under 21s he'd be worth more. Not that all defenders would be. You asked for examples of u-21s capped defenders from the championship going for more than £3m and you'd already been provided with one. As well as examples of midfielders and forwards. There are more examples but what's the point in digging them up? You disregard them and you were unable to provide a single example to support your view that clubs who don't have a track record of producing young players and selling them for big bucks will get less money. Your opinion isn't really based on data or any real thinking is it? oh your back. I thought your ego wouldnt allow anyone else to have the final word. Thanks for not disappointing Nibsy. you gave one example of a defender. Curtis Davies who had already played in the premier league. You'll remember that bit. It was when you provided just one inaccurate example to back up your argument but then went on to dismiss one example of a Newcastle player being developed as an adeqaute counter argument. your opinion is based on one young defender who had already played a full season at the top level (unlike Caulker so therefore not comparable) being sold for more than £3m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Harper was the perminent number two when Shay Given was at Newcastle and Taylor is almost as bad as Titus Bramble - hopeless and a regular laughing stock. The fact that Harper played in the Champions League ( I didn't know he had) means zilch. Lots of average players have played in it. yes because Given is better. He's not number 2 now though. Playing in the top competition in europe now means zilch? ok. Taylor is a laughing stock? where have you read that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 oh your back. I thought your ego wouldnt allow anyone else to have the final word. Thanks for not disappointing Nibsy. I never went away, you seemed to be trying to have a debate again but you're misrepresenting what I posted so I am happy to correct you. you gave one example of a defender. Curtis Davies who had already played in the premier league. You'll remember that bit. It was when you provided just one inaccurate example to back up your argument but then went on to dismiss one example of a Newcastle player being developed as an adeqaute counter argument. your opinion is based on one young defender who had already played a full season at the top level (unlike Caulker so therefore not comparable) being sold for more than £3m. Er no. I gave Curtis Davies as an example of a defender in the Championship that had gone for a lot more than £3m. That was all you asked for and it was off the top of my head. If I recall correctly it was an undisclosed fee but I remember it because he was on soccer am a few weeks back and confirmed it was £8m. He had played a part season in the Prem and a full season in the Championship when he was sold. But my opinion isn't based on that and I never said it was. It's actually based on all the other players of that level of quality that have been signed from Championship clubs by Premier League clubs for lots of money irrespective of what position they play in, some of which I mentioned. I am certain there are lots of others, likely defenders too. It was you who started making an issue out of positions in any case, not me. What's your opinion based on again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 yes because Given is better. He's not number 2 now though. Playing in the top competition in europe now means zilch? ok. Taylor is a laughing stock? where have you read that? I say it again, lots Champions League players are average, most play for teams that don't get through the group stages or quarters. To qualify a player as a class act on the grounds that they played in the compition is meaningless. There are of course plenty of top quality players in the Champions League but not all of them are, Taylor has been ridiculed on the radio, on Match of the Day and Sky Sports for his ridiculous feigning injury, stupid fouls and general clownish attitude and defending. One Toon fan I know considers him an embarressment to the club. I'm sure there are plenty more that think the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I think it would be sensible if we signed him for say about £1.5M and Spurs had a buy back clause (maybe £8M) and a bonus if he played for England whilst still on our books. This would be realistic if we went for a permanent deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I say it again, lots Champions League players are average, most play for teams that don't get through the group stages or quarters. To qualify a player as a class act on the grounds that they played in the compition is meaningless. There are of course plenty of top quality players in the Champions League but not all of them are, Taylor has been ridiculed on the radio, on Match of the Day and Sky Sports for his ridiculous feigning injury, stupid fouls and general clownish attitude and defending. One Toon fan I know considers him an embarressment to the club. I'm sure there are plenty more that think the same. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkLane82 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 How many of those are defenders? And.....if Harry Redknapp thought Caulker was already good enough he wouldn't have allowed him out on loan. Your last statement isnt entirely true Harry has installed a set up where all of our promising youth players go out on loans instead of playing in our reserve side, which no longer exists. During these loans Harry is wanting to see if these players can cut it or not, and for those that do obviously get pushed up to the PL an example of this is Kyle Walker's progress from QPR to Villa. Harry thinks that playing at a competitive level as opposed to your average reserve game will benefit this players more in the long run. So IMO, we will be keeping Caulker and he'll either be loaned out to a Championship club or a lower PL next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkLane82 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 However, if tottenham need a new gallas, tottenham will tend to pay £10+ million for a proven player who is less of a gamble And I really really really do not want us to do this, its typical Spurs but I dont want a player like Gary Cahill coming in and bumping back Caulker or slowing his progress into our first team. Like its been said Gallas/King/Woody I think will all be gone in 2 seasons time so that will leave us with Daws, Kaboul, Bassong, Khumalo, Caulker to be our CBs. I would like us to find a CB who isnt going to be the superstar signing but someone who will come in and provide good cover for us. Once those 3 mentioned above leave then thats where Caulker will come in. For me he'll be a better player than both Bassong and Khumalo by the time he hits their age (he's probably better now). He'll also be a great partner for either Dawson or Kaboul (who I like at RB for us, until Walker comes through next season), so really it just depends on how quickly Caulker can continue his progress and how long we'll keep hold of our aging CBs. If we dont spend money on a CB this summer/winter who is a high profile name, that for me is a clear sign Caulker will be involved in the coming seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Eye Beef Hooked Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Caulker will be at QPR on loan next season ...Millen has said that he is looking at other young Premier League loanies for next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I never went away, you seemed to be trying to have a debate again but you're misrepresenting what I posted so I am happy to correct you. Er no. I gave Curtis Davies as an example of a defender in the Championship that had gone for a lot more than £3m. That was all you asked for and it was off the top of my head. If I recall correctly it was an undisclosed fee but I remember it because he was on soccer am a few weeks back and confirmed it was £8m. He had played a part season in the Prem and a full season in the Championship when he was sold. But my opinion isn't based on that and I never said it was. It's actually based on all the other players of that level of quality that have been signed from Championship clubs by Premier League clubs for lots of money irrespective of what position they play in, some of which I mentioned. I am certain there are lots of others, likely defenders too. It was you who started making an issue out of positions in any case, not me. What's your opinion based on again? sorry. you kept misrepresenting me so I thought it was ok to do that. Davies played 35 games in the prem and was captain. he was a known quantity at that level unlike Caulker. The nearest player I can find for comparison is Michael Dawson but he was signed with Andy Reid for a combined fee of £8m so its not possible to say how that was calculated. my opinion is based on a theory based on finances in football these days and prem clubs increasing reluctance to pay inflated prices for English players when its cheaper abroad and Citys historical inability to sell players on at a decent profit. Added to the fact there are very few examples of young English defenders who have only ever played outside the championship going for amounts that would leave us any profit after paying the players contract and Spurs sell on fee. I realise yours is a fact though and not a theory at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_Lemon Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Some of you may be scratching your head at this. But I honestly do not wish Caulker to come here next season. He's a great defender that's for sure, one of the best I have seen down AG, and at only 19 years old. Imagine his full capability when he hit's around 22-23. The reason I do not want him is purely because the lad deserves his chance in the Premier League next season. Im not sure it will be with Spurs but someone will take him. e.g Stoke, Villa, QPR etc. He's too good of a potential to stay in this league and I would love to see him progess into a world class defender. If he get's the offer to either join a PL team or us, no doubt I would say "Go on kid take it with both hands and show the PL what you can do". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Some of you may be scratching your head at this. But I honestly do not wish Caulker to come here next season. He's a great defender that's for sure, one of the best I have seen down AG, and at only 19 years old. Imagine his full capability when he hit's around 22-23. The reason I do not want him is purely because the lad deserves his chance in the Premier League next season. Im not sure it will be with Spurs but someone will take him. e.g Stoke, Villa, QPR etc. He's too good of a potential to stay in this league and I would love to see him progess into a world class defender. If he get's the offer to either join a PL team or us, no doubt I would say "Go on kid take it with both hands and show the PL what you can do". I dont agree with not wanting him here - but I totally get what your saying. Staying with us will only harm is career IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Agreed, Newcastle have a reputation as buying club not a developing club and even then they tried to flop Carroll 12 months earlier on the cheap! Think the fact that when they first had Shearer they stuck him in goal some up newcastle! can't think of another top quality player that Newcastle have produced before Carroll? oh and anyone who suggests Sheola Ameboi will get a slap! Santiago Muñez from the movie goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_Lemon Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I dont agree with not wanting him here - but I totally get what your saying. Staying with us will only harm is career IMO. I mean in the way I would love him to be here to benefit us next season. But I do not want him here because as you said it could harm is career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I mean in the way I would love him to be here to benefit us next season. But I do not want him here because as you said it could harm is career. unless we're fighting for promotion instead of relegation then it could be seen as a step, Etherway it doesn't harm to ask and he's said he wants to play in the prem sooner rather then later but would be happy to come back if no offer appears, If a prem club were to sign him on loan it would be the wolves and west hams of this world as they wouldn't want a top half team (sunderland etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Not a bid deal but he should probably say something non-commital like "we'll see in the summer" until he's got an answer IMO. Then answer the question properly when we have a firm No. There's never any profit from talking about these things ahead of them being decided. Agree and we should certainly be planning for that anyway. I am glad there are others who think Millie needs to clam up more. I would answer in this way when asked about Caulker:- Of course we are always looking to improve our squad, money permitting., we recognise talent especially those that have or are at this club on long term deals or loans. I am not about to say we have made a bid or enquiry for any player now or in the future however and you would not expect me to unless you want us to spend more money needlessly... that should be his default answer every time; if journos don't like it they should lump it up field into the clover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gater2 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Break the bank to sign him if there's any chance he'll come and build the team around him. Future England player for sure. Even if we bought him for £4m, we'd probably sell him on for more than that in a few years if we don't make the prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think it would be sensible if we signed him for say about £1.5M and Spurs had a buy back clause (maybe £8M) and a bonus if he played for England whilst still on our books. This would be realistic if we went for a permanent deal. I can't imagine how unlikely that is. Surely there is more chance of BCFC adopting pink as their preferred colour and Louis Carey having a sex change? Now which way is the bookies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 "Caulker Considers City Return" http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11726_6832522,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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