Bristol City's Drinking Culture

[Robbored]

You are so patronising! I know more than you think. It may have only delayed the drinking problem, but it may have put them into good habits for the rest of their life's. If they were told by Danny Wilson and the senior pro's to look after their body's, they may never have developed a problem in the first place. As it was, they obviously all drank. A young sportsman should'nt be. A young sportsman certainly shouldn't be a alcoholic, even if they have it in them.

Darren Hawkins obviously had no chance. But you look at someone like cole skuse who I'm led to believe does not drink at all - he won't have these problems and he'll be able to fulfil his potential.

Whereas, Hawkins and roberts almost had no choice but to drink, because it was the done thing at the club.

Danny Wilson, as well as others must shoulder some blame that Hawkins and roberts and maybe other players, weren't able to fulfil their potential.

It wasn't intended to be patronising but I can't do anything about it if thats how you read it.

I'll stand by my original statement that you (and almost everyone outside of the subject) don't know anything about or understand alcoholism.

I'll also stand by statement that regardless of the drinking culture at City under Wilson, both Roberts (who was almost certainly addicted long before he joined City) and Hawkins would still have gone down the same path.

If you did know anything about the subject you would understand what I'm saying - and thats not meant to patronising.

[Robbored]

My Dad is an alcoholic. He has never worked in any kind of industry that has a typical "drinking culture" in fact he has to drive a lot for his job.

He started drinking to blank out the pain when his Nan died, but now he's addicted, he doesn't see it as a problem, he's quite happy being the way he is, and doesn't want to change. It's such a shame because the Dad I had growing up "died" years ago, now I just have this bloke who looks like my dad, talks like my Dad, but is just a shell, and resembles nothing like the Dad I used to have. Alcohol has robbed me (and my family) of that.

I stopped trying to waste my energy trying to change him years back, because I realised there's nothing I can do to change him, he has to want to do that himself, and there's nothing I can do in the meantime.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make, but wanted to add my thoughts anyway.

I don't whether you've ever been to Al-Anon but your third paragraph sums up their message very well.

[Robbored]

He dealt with it at bristol city. He also set good standards and habits for players like cole skuse.

Come off it Riaz.

I know you're a die-hard Johnson disciple but give Skuse some credit. He may well have made the decision not to drink long before Johnson arrived at the club. It seems like common sense to me.

[Donald]

Drinking Culture has been massive at City for years,

Osman let it go (well apart from Jacki)

Ward let it go, Murray, Cramb, Thorpe, Tommy (City was probably at it's worst then!)

Benny - tried to fix it and it effectively cost him his job

Wilson let it go, Forget Christian Roberts, Lee Peacock was the worst of the lot

Is was still their under Johnson, but most of the players were alot more clever about it

It still lurks within the club now, no one will ever be able to banish it unfortunately, it's what happens when some "less-educated" people have to much free time and too much money,

To blame any specfic manager though is pointless, Beer, Fast Cars, Money and Women, it's just the footballers mentality.

[Monkeh]

It wasn't intended to be patronising but I can't do anything about it if thats how you read it.

I'll stand by my original statement that you (and almost everyone outside of the subject) don't know anything about or understand alcoholism.

I'll also stand by statement that regardless of the drinking culture at City under Wilson, both Roberts (who was almost certainly addicted long before he joined City) and Hawkins would still have gone down the same path.

If you did know anything about the subject you would understand what I'm saying - and thats not meant to patronising.

I'm with you Rob some are using it to have ago at you and your Anti GJ stance,

Its nothing to do with that Johnson did tackle it at the club and put a stop to it at the club by moving players on thats all he could do,

I have 2 uncles who are alco's 1 died one moved to Scotland for treatment to get away from it,

only people who can treat are the alcoholics theirselfs no one else, Darren lost a promising career in football and his girlfriend to it but has sorted himself out,

Wilson did try and help him by telling him he won't be around the first until he sorts himself out as it states in my OP aprt from that there wasn't much more he could do,

[Mr Popodopolous]

Drinking Culture has been massive at City for years,

Osman let it go (well apart from Jacki)

Ward let it go, Murray, Cramb, Thorpe, Tommy (City was probably at it's worst then!)

Benny - tried to fix it and it effectively cost him his job

Wilson let it go, Forget Christian Roberts, Lee Peacock was the worst of the lot

Is was still their under Johnson, but most of the players were alot more clever about it

It still lurks within the club now, no one will ever be able to banish it unfortunately, it's what happens when some "less-educated" people have to much free time and too much money,

To blame any specfic manager though is pointless, Beer, Fast Cars, Money and Women, it's just the footballers mentality.

It is kinda inevitable but it seems quite specific to British football really. Lots of foreign managers over here have commented on it and correctly identified it as a problem. How did it effectively cost Benny his job though, most interesting that. Would have thought the club would have stood behind him in an attempt to get rid but there we are.

[myol'man]

The landlords of Gloucester Road are rubbing their hands at the prospect of Danny Wilson taking over at the rugby ground

[Riaz]

I'll also stand by statement that regardless of the drinking culture at City under Wilson, both Roberts (who was almost certainly addicted long before he joined City) and Hawkins would still have gone down the same path.

I guess my point is, if they never started drinking in the first place - they may never have become alcoholic's.... would you say thats a fair statement?

[phantom]

Was he really around playing for City in Wilson's time ?

I can remember him playing for WSM, but the reason he was playing non league football was he had taken an insurance pay out on another injury.

[Riaz]

Come off it Riaz.

I know you're a die-hard Johnson disciple but give Skuse some credit. He may well have made the decision not to drink long before Johnson arrived at the club. It seems like common sense to me.

Maybe he would have. But I doubt he would be tee-total if he had came through during the danny wison era.

[Robbored]

I guess my point is, if they never started drinking in the first place - they may never have become alcoholic's.... would you say thats a fair statement?

Yeh, thats a fair but unrealistic statement. Most of us have sampled alcohol by the age 15 or younger and no doubt the seeds of alcoholism were stimulated in Roberts and Hawkins around they age they first drank.

Two extreme examples.

I recall one professional cricketer who told me that he knew he was addicted to alcohol from his first ever drink taken on a scout camp aged 14 when they managed to down a couple of flagons of cider around the camp fire. They all got pissed and the next morning nearly all of them were hanging. Not this bloke, he started searching for the flagons to see if any was left...Sadly he's no longer with us.

Another bloke, a 55 year old successful teetotal on religious grounds buisnesman sold up to spend his retirement with his wife travelling. Within months of selling up she died and he was devastated. Angry and bitter with God he took to drink for the first time ever in his life. Within 18 months he was completely done in and on his knees. He stopped and recovered but realised that he would have developed alcoholism earlier in his life had it not been for his faith stopping him. That kinda supports your statement.

[Stephen Lewis]

.

If you did know anything about the subject you would understand what I'm saying - and thats not meant to patronising.

I understand Robbored.

[Donald]

Maybe he would have. But I doubt he would be tee-total if he had came through during the danny wison era.

Skuse was playing in the reserves at the same time as Hawkins, both of them were around when Wilson was boss.

Hawkins problem was coming through the young setup at the same time as the likes of Ryan Harley, Sekani Simpson and Marvin Brown, who both liked to hang out senior players such as Fortune and Aaron Brown.

Looking at that list of names many of them had potential, but only Harley took being released by City as a wake up call and sorted his act out,

Skuse didn't fall into the trap as he his dad kept a wise eye on him as a youngster and as a fan himself travel to games with Cole and made sure he didn't fall into the same traps as a many young players do.

[Donald]

It is kinda inevitable but it seems quite specific to British football really. Lots of foreign managers over here have commented on it and correctly identified it as a problem. How did it effectively cost Benny his job though, most interesting that. Would have thought the club would have stood behind him in an attempt to get rid but there we are.

Cost Benny his job, in that Ward let the players do what they wanted, he came in and rightly called them the most unfit squad he'd ever worked with and demanded they get fit and stop drinking, a number of senior (some so called legends) 't like it and told him what they thought of his views, by the time they had come around to his views city were almost down already.

Similar happened to Arsene Wenger when he joined Arsenal but then trusted him and Tony Adams extended career was an example of that,

[Riaz]

Yeh, thats a fair but unrealistic statement. Most of us have sampled alcohol by the age 15 or younger and no doubt the seeds of alcoholism were stimulated in Roberts and Hawkins around they age they first drank.

Two extreme examples.

I recall one professional cricketer who told me that he knew he was addicted to alcohol from his first ever drink taken on a scout camp aged 14 when they managed to down a couple of flagons of cider around the camp fire. They all got pissed and the next morning nearly all of them were hanging. Not this bloke, he started searching for the flagons to see if any was left...Sadly he's no longer with us.

Another bloke, a 55 year old successful teetotal on religious grounds buisnesman sold up to spend his retirement with his wife travelling. Within months of selling up she died and he was devastated. Angry and bitter with God he took to drink for the first time ever in his life. Within 18 months he was completely done in and on his knees. He stopped and recovered but realised that he would have developed alcoholism earlier in his life had it not been for his faith stopping him. That kinda supports your statement.

Okay, its a little unrealistic. But, lets say it delayed the inevitable until after their career. At least their career could have been saved??

[Fodbarmyarmy]

The drinking culture in this country is now so deep in the mindset of its indigenous population that it is no wonder it shows up in our top level people like it does......

Sports, politicians, business leaders.....its there for all to see ...............football is one of the worst ...........and it appears to be getting more & more a problem for our youth - I think a lot of it is being driven by the celeb party culture pushed upon our youngsters

You even see it in some of the comments on this forum re travelling to games on coaches etc..."Im not doing that coz I cant drink"...................

Thts not saying that anyone who likes a drink has a problem.............its saying that there is a problem being made by putting drink first...

[nebristolred]

As much as it pains me to say it, RR is right. Of course it exists everywhere. Not Danny Wilson's fault at all.

[BCFC_Dan]

As much as it pains me to say it, RR is right. Of course it exists everywhere. Not Danny Wilson's fault at all.

Just because it exists everywhere and isn't confined to the club doesn't mean it can't be reduced.

I'd bet that most young players will have tried drinking and largely made up their mind on the matter long before they get near the first team squad but it stands to reason that if the first team players are out drinking all night then some of the youngsters will get dragged along with them. If they see first team players coming into training drunk then it will be seen as acceptable.

If Wilson had cracked down on it harder then Roberts and Hawkins might well have still had problems, but there could have been less impact on other players, the squad would have been fitter and the promotion near-misses might have been seasons to celebrate.

It might not be Wilson's fault that players became alcoholics but he did nothing to help the situation.

[Monkeh]

As much as it pains me to say it, RR is right. Of course it exists everywhere. Not Danny Wilson's fault at all.

it is hard to say that isn't it,

but he's true and Donald is also true about the other acadmey products he mentioned,

People ask all the time why we released Harley and thats because he was pissing his career up the wall with us and it took that kick in the teeth to sort it out,

Its a shame its come to late for Hawkens but he's sorted now and to be honest is pritty brave coming out about it,

Thats why I'll always have respect for Merson and Adams both had big problems and both faced them Adams now a manager in Albania I think and merce is a funney pundet (in my view) and well like on soccor saturday,

Some people need a wake up call and sadly until they admit they have a problem they won't,

[Riaz]

Just because it exists everywhere and isn't confined to the club doesn't mean it can't be reduced.

I'd bet that most young players will have tried drinking and largely made up their mind on the matter long before they get near the first team squad but it stands to reason that if the first team players are out drinking all night then some of the youngsters will get dragged along with them. If they see first team players coming into training drunk then it will be seen as acceptable.

If Wilson had cracked down on it harder then Roberts and Hawkins might well have still had problems, but there could have been less impact on other players, the squad would have been fitter and the promotion near-misses might have been seasons to celebrate.

It might not be Wilson's fault that players became alcoholics but he did nothing to help the situation.

Exactly.

[phantom]

My Dad is an alcoholic. He has never worked in any kind of industry that has a typical "drinking culture" in fact he has to drive a lot for his job.

He started drinking to blank out the pain when his Nan died, but now he's addicted, he doesn't see it as a problem, he's quite happy being the way he is, and doesn't want to change. It's such a shame because the Dad I had growing up "died" years ago, now I just have this bloke who looks like my dad, talks like my Dad, but is just a shell, and resembles nothing like the Dad I used to have. Alcohol has robbed me (and my family) of that.

I stopped trying to waste my energy trying to change him years back, because I realised there's nothing I can do to change him, he has to want to do that himself, and there's nothing I can do in the meantime.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make, but wanted to add my thoughts anyway.

You should be thankful that he is still alive and still has the chance to get himself sorted !

Many people have lost their fathers and would do anything to swap places with you !!!

[Avalonred]

You should be thankful that he is still alive and still has the chance to get himself sorted !

Many people have lost their fathers and would do anything to swap places with you !!!

We feel your pain Dolls but Phanton has a point, even if he was a little blunt about it! For the last 30 years I have wished I could have taken my Dad out for a beer (no offence meant) and gone with him to the football, to repay him for the years before I was old enough to repay him..... he died when I was 15.....

[HIGHRIDGE BCFC]

Just reading this morning's evening post about an old player of ours who had a problem with the old drink under Danny Wilson found it quite interesting and show where the club was going Before Johnson got rid of it, and also show's where the gas are heading if thier drinking culture is to be beleved,

I'm not against a pro going out to enjoy himself but this is what could happen if that sort of thing wasn't cut back under Johnson and to a degree Millen,

From the evil post website

DARREN Hawkins has opened up about the alcohol and gambling addictions that curtailed what should have been a promising professional football career.

The talented forward, who recently celebrated his 27th birthday, looked destined to become one of Bristol City's next generation of stars around the time he won a first professional contract nine years ago.

And when he marked his senior bow for the Robins with a second-half hat-trick in a pre-season friendly against a Wiltshire representative side, a one-way pass to future success appeared to have been pocketed.

Hawkins, who has been playing a lead role of late in Bishop Sutton's impressive emergence in the Toolstation League top-flight, went on to win a maiden league start in a goalless draw against Peter Reid's Leeds United at Ashton Gate in that same summer of 2003.

This journo may or may not have a drinking problem,but you can't make your maiden league start in a friendly.

[Dollymarie]

You should be thankful that he is still alive and still has the chance to get himself sorted !

Many people have lost their fathers and would do anything to swap places with you !!!

He doesnt want to "get sorted" because he doesn't see that he has any problem. It's my Mum I feel sorry for, not him. Believe me it's not nice living with an aggressive violent bully who can't see that he has any kind of problem. I know it's an illness, I've had to live with it over half my life, but I don't feel sorry for him anymore because it's a waste of energy.

Believe me it's no fun having a verbally abusive, sometimes violent parent. I've had to take that attitude to protect myself from any more hurt.

[REDOXO]

The period throughout Danny Wilson's reign was littered with posts on here about the drinking culture that existed at the club...Certain forwards, backs and goalkeepers were constantly being reffered to as being out on the town (piss), the big suprize to me was it was Christian Roberts that in the end admiited to a drink problem when he was rarely mentioned as a partier.

GJ certainly killed that dressing room culture, more power to him, but what really bothered me was that this wasn't the first time we had problems in the changing room since the late 90's, I have been reliably informed one of the reasons Sean Dyche came here was to put a leader in the dressing room and try and change the dressing room culture that existed at the time....

Over a number of years some of our players it would seem, have behaved in the fashion of local celebrity, it is very hard to change a culture and takes some considerable time and effort, however I would suggest that for now at least those days are over and I would further suggest that credit is due to those in the club that have pushed us forward like SL, CS (and the rest of the board over the last ten years) who want to achieve something for our city our club and us!

COYR

[southvillekiddy]

.Similar happened to Arsene Wenger when he joined Arsenal but then trusted him and Tony Adams extended career was an example of that,

Similiarly greatly respect Johnson for what he did for our club in pointing out to the players that they could extend their careers as athletes by looking after themselves.

It took someone with Johnson's forcefull character to take on the problem at City. Players like Akmankwah who went to Yeovil when he was still there said his players were fitter.

So thankyou Gary for bringing about a situation where Bristol City were taken seriously.

Have to agree with other posters in saying that a football manager cannot prevent a latent alcoholic becoming one however.

[Guest]

It's fair to say it wasn't Danny Wilson's fault but living in Chesterfield certainly didn't help.

Thhankfully moved on from those days now. Maybe the antics of Brooker/Orr/Partridge & Co did actually have a positive effect in serving as a wake up call thereafter.

[bristolcitysweden]

My Dad is an alcoholic. He has never worked in any kind of industry that has a typical "drinking culture" in fact he has to drive a lot for his job.

He started drinking to blank out the pain when his Nan died, but now he's addicted, he doesn't see it as a problem, he's quite happy being the way he is, and doesn't want to change. It's such a shame because the Dad I had growing up "died" years ago, now I just have this bloke who looks like my dad, talks like my Dad, but is just a shell, and resembles nothing like the Dad I used to have. Alcohol has robbed me (and my family) of that.

I stopped trying to waste my energy trying to change him years back, because I realised there's nothing I can do to change him, he has to want to do that himself, and there's nothing I can do in the meantime.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make, but wanted to add my thoughts anyway.

Alcoholism is a disease and a suffering for all people involved. The one suffering most is your dad and deep inside he is still the same person. By his heart he would like it too be like it once was. On this forum we know each other although we do not know each other. We are freinds although we in many cases never have met. Thank you for sharing your story Marie. I esteem you for your trust in us all - your friends.

Tommy

[BristolCity1992]

There is a drinking cultre ingrained in society as a whole not just football, it is also one that is seen as very socially acceptable, has anyone in here ever tried to tell an average drinker that they are doing a drug?

The response you get is sometimes quite astounding but the truth is that it is no different to doing any other drug out there, however the drink company's with help from the government have had a very good crack at telling us it is completly safe.

I do think that you can not blame wilson for hawkins or roberts, even if the club had cracked down on them harder it would have juat forced the problem underground which would have been even worse for the person involved. If anything it would be a lot better if we were more open and people could come out and say they have a problem. (If they are ready) safe in the knowledge that no one is going to judge them.

When you are addicted to any substance you can get a very one track mind, what is going on around you does not take as much importance anymore and it can be a totally isolating experience. Drink if it was invented tomorow would be a class a drug today. (Not that prohibition is a good thing but thats a totally different subject.)

[bristolcitysweden]

There is a drinking cultre ingrained in society as a whole not just football, it is also one that is seen as very socially acceptable, has anyone in here ever tried to tell an average drinker that they are doing a drug?

The response you get is sometimes quite astounding but the truth is that it is no different to doing any other drug out there, however the drink company's with help from the government have had a very good crack at telling us it is completly safe.

I do think that you can not blame wilson for hawkins or roberts, even if the club had cracked down on them harder it would have juat forced the problem underground which would have been even worse for the person involved. If anything it would be a lot better if we were more open and people could come out and say they have a problem. (If they are ready) safe in the knowledge that no one is going to judge them.

When you are addicted to any substance you can get a very one track mind, what is going on around you does not take as much importance anymore and it can be a totally isolating experience. Drink if it was invented tomorow would be a class a drug today. (Not that prohibition is a good thing but thats a totally different subject.)

Alcohol is a socially accepted drug and as long as you stick to your pint you can behave perfectly alright although you probably will put on as much weight that you will die of a heart attack in the end.

It's down the genes and nothing to be ashamed off.