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Big Stan Hibbert

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Makes an absolute nonsense of the ranking system.

I wouldn't put us 44th at the moment regardless of how the points are calculated.

Already a thread on this on this in general section (force of habit I assume for OP posting there). We've played a couple of competitive fixtures recently, hence going up, but yes a system that clearly doesn't work!

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We are probably top 20 but the points system does need looking at if we have been put 4th.

I think it is averaged out over 4 years so can't see how we would be 4th as we didn't even make Euro 2008.

Agree with this definitely top 20, probably top 10, but certainly not 4th! Ratings are just obscured at the moment as we've played a few competitive games recently.

Most qualifying results for 2008 won't count though as will be mostly outside the 4 year cut off. The points teams gained from playing in 2008 also won't count for much as more recent games are given a heavier weighting.

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Granted but those performances are few and far between. When was the last one of note before that... the 5-1 v Germany?

Personally found the Ghana match entertaining with what pretty much amounted to a second string side even if we didn't actually win.

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As a mutual view as I do not follow England and to look at it balanced out, England are not as some people think on here even in the top 20 international teams. International sides such as Spain, Brazil, Germany, Holland and Argentina are miles ahead of England. Even France who were in the dog muck this time last year are starting to rebuild and creating a younger and stronger team.

England fans think draws against the likes of Ghana, Switzerland and Croatia are poor results and believe England should be sweeping them aside. This is totally false, in my view those sides such as Ghana actually better than England and have come along way in the last few decades. Fans of England need to take a step back and realise their national team is on the same level as Ghana, Croatia, Switzerland, Denmark and other sides such as Czech Republic and USA.

England hardly has any world class players, even though the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand and Terry etc are billed as world class sadly there not. I really would like to see England do well but people need to realise draws against the likes of those middle class teams are actually good results.

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As a mutual view as I do not follow England and to look at it balanced out, England are not as some people think on here even in the top 20 international teams. International sides such as Spain, Brazil, Germany, Holland and Argentina are miles ahead of England. Even France who were in the dog muck this time last year are starting to rebuild and creating a younger and stronger team.

England fans think draws against the likes of Ghana, Switzerland and Croatia are poor results and believe England should be sweeping them aside. This is totally false, in my view those sides such as Ghana actually better than England and have come along way in the last few decades. Fans of England need to take a step back and realise their national team is on the same level as Ghana, Croatia, Switzerland, Denmark and other sides such as Czech Republic and USA.

England hardly has any world class players, even though the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand and Terry etc are billed as world class sadly there not. I really would like to see England do well but people need to realise draws against the likes of those middle class teams are actually good results.

Ferdinand not world class? He has been captain of Man Utd and at the top of the European game for years. So disagree with you on that completely.

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Ferdinand not world class? He has been captain of Man Utd and at the top of the European game for years. So disagree with you on that completely.

Agree on Ferdinand. As for the rest of the so called golden generation, I'd say no more than the following are world class:

Cole, Rooney. Maybe Lampard too. 4 at most basically, so yeah a quarter final side unless we draw someone above.

Agree with NudieRed in general though, mostly we're not as good as we are billed to be.

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As a mutual view as I do not follow England and to look at it balanced out, England are not as some people think on here even in the top 20 international teams. International sides such as Spain, Brazil, Germany, Holland and Argentina are miles ahead of England. Even France who were in the dog muck this time last year are starting to rebuild and creating a younger and stronger team.

Could the same not be said about England though? After years of underachievment the ''golden generation'' (what a load of bull that was) has come to an end thank God. The young talent we have coming through imo is very exciting. It seems that finally we have 6 or 7 real quality prospects all coming through at once. Wilshere, Jones, Smalling, Sturridge,Rodwell and Welbeck are the pick of the bunch, add them to the already decent 24/25 year olds we have in Rooney A.Johnson Theo Walcott Darren Bent etc and i would say the future looks bright if lead by the right manager.

The back 5 looks sorted for years to come, and the front line is looking very promising aswell. My only concern would be the lack of ''Jack wilshere's'' small technically gifted players that are comfartable on the ball. Josh mceachran if anyone has ever heard of him is apprently the next big thing and is likened to Wilshere a lot so hopefully he can be the player to partner Jack in central midfield, who knows..

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Could the same not be said about England though? After years of underachievment the ''golden generation'' (what a load of bull that was) has come to an end thank God. The young talent we have coming through imo is very exciting. It seems that finally we have 6 or 7 real quality prospects all coming through at once. Wilshere, Jones, Smalling, Sturridge,Rodwell and Welbeck are the pick of the bunch, add them to the already decent 24/25 year olds we have in Rooney A.Johnson Theo Walcott Darren Bent etc and i would say the future looks bright if lead by the right manager.

The back 5 looks sorted for years to come, and the front line is looking very promising aswell. My only concern would be the lack of ''Jack wilshere's'' small technically gifted players that are comfartable on the ball. Josh mceachran if anyone has ever heard of him is apprently the next big thing and is likened to Wilshere a lot so hopefully he can be the player to partner Jack in central midfield, who knows..

sturridge and welbeck????? did you not watch the euro under 21 championships....absolute pony

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Could the same not be said about England though? After years of underachievment the ''golden generation'' (what a load of bull that was) has come to an end thank God. The young talent we have coming through imo is very exciting. It seems that finally we have 6 or 7 real quality prospects all coming through at once. Wilshere, Jones, Smalling, Sturridge,Rodwell and Welbeck are the pick of the bunch, add them to the already decent 24/25 year olds we have in Rooney A.Johnson Theo Walcott Darren Bent etc and i would say the future looks bright if lead by the right manager.

The back 5 looks sorted for years to come, and the front line is looking very promising aswell. My only concern would be the lack of ''Jack wilshere's'' small technically gifted players that are comfartable on the ball. Josh mceachran if anyone has ever heard of him is apprently the next big thing and is likened to Wilshere a lot so hopefully he can be the player to partner Jack in central midfield, who knows..

for Englands sake I hope so. I hope all of them get a chance of playing for their parent club and play in Europe and such rather than being loaned out to lesser PL sides. They need to be handled with care and guided to play football not to win. Take a leaf out of Spains book.

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Agree on Ferdinand. As for the rest of the so called golden generation, I'd say no more than the following are world class:

Cole, Rooney. Maybe Lampard too. 4 at most basically, so yeah a quarter final side unless we draw someone above.

Agree with NudieRed in general though, mostly we're not as good as we are billed to be.

David Beckham, Michael Owen ?

They were the golden generation surely, at the 2006 World cup, even though Owen got injured !

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David Beckham, Michael Owen ?

They were the golden generation surely, at the 2006 World cup, even though Owen got injured !

Meant those still playing- but yes, Beckham too in his day. Owen? Very goiod goalscorer, pace wise too but all round game? Less sure- seems to need a 4-4-2 to thrive too which is a hell of a lot less prevalent at the top level these days.

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As a mutual view as I do not follow England and to look at it balanced out, England are not as some people think on here even in the top 20 international teams. International sides such as Spain, Brazil, Germany, Holland and Argentina are miles ahead of England. Even France who were in the dog muck this time last year are starting to rebuild and creating a younger and stronger team.

England fans think draws against the likes of Ghana, Switzerland and Croatia are poor results and believe England should be sweeping them aside. This is totally false, in my view those sides such as Ghana actually better than England and have come along way in the last few decades. Fans of England need to take a step back and realise their national team is on the same level as Ghana, Croatia, Switzerland, Denmark and other sides such as Czech Republic and USA.

England hardly has any world class players, even though the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand and Terry etc are billed as world class sadly there not. I really would like to see England do well but people need to realise draws against the likes of those middle class teams are actually good results.

I can see where you're coming from and we are definitely overrated, but think we are easily a top 20 side. A top 20 side should be able to qualify for World Cups and we often do that, despite being in tougher qualifying groups than some other regions. The 5 you mention are top sides though and as bris red mentions, we are also in a rebuilding process similar to France. We certainly lack the technical ability on and off the ball that some of the better nations have, but I think you are being a bit negative in terms of comparing ourselves with countries such as Switzerland, Denmark, etc ...

We may only have a few World Class players. I would include Ferdinand, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard and Cole (possibly even Terry) in that list. I also think Wilshere and Hart are not far off either and will only get better. From the teams you mention that we should be on a level with, I can't think of that number of world class players between them. Only Essien, Modric and Cech off the top of my head and a couple of promising youngsters. Draws against those teams should not be considered good results. We should be aiming higher.

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Owen was world class for a long period but obvious injuries set him back. Beckham has never been.

How would Owen pre injuries have fared as a lone striker though? Remember winning the midfield battle is pivotal now so would he have got in with that type of role? He might have done the business but I'd have reservations in that regard.

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