Appalling Police Brutality

[Mr Popodopolous]

There is some real bullshit in this thread even by this forum's standards.

I'm not condoning any unwarrented police brutality, and as I don't know the specifics of this case - as does know one else here - then I can't comment on that.

What I can comment on is the ludicrous anti-police sentiment in here. The tarring with the same brush. The police are scum etc. Quite incredible really. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. The vast majority of the policeforce are hard working, honest people. Fortunately it is incidents of disgusting police brutality such as the Ian Tomlinson case recently that are so much the exception to an otherwise superb organisation.

What about kettling, a lot of controversy over the use of that by our police, seems a relatively new practice at that too.

[Matty-H]

What about kettling, a lot of controversy over the use of that by our police, seems a relatively new practice at that too.

What about it? The theory is good. If you get the odd idiot that abuses it then that's wrong, but doesn't detract from my main point about blanketing the entire police force as scum

[Mr Mosquito]

I'm not a great fan of the police by any means, and yeah questionable practices, i.e. handling of football fans, kettling to name but 2. What happened here was a disgrace but the Gestapo were quite possibly the most brutual police force/internal security force in history. To compare to that particular organisation, well it's quite a statement.

Still, you may be onto something...

http://www.waspsnest...ike-the-gestapo

Similar enough practice in this instance I suppos, but overall a markedly ott comparison IMO.

As has already been mentioned, our Police service was nowhere near as corrupt 25 years ago as they are now. During the Weimar Republic the Prussian State Police (the Gestapo) were probably nowhere near as bad but then they came under the control of Hitler and his gang. I've got no idea who now controls the strings and ideology of our Police - someone like the unelected witch Lady Catherine Ashton of the EU? Whoever controls them now has tyrannical tendencies that's for sure.

[LSR]

What about kettling, a lot of controversy over the use of that by our police, seems a relatively new practice at that too.

should we just let them fight it out then?

[LSR]

As has already been mentioned, our Police service was nowhere near as corrupt 25 years ago as they are now. During the Weimar Republic the Prussian State Police (the Gestapo) were probably nowhere near as bad but then they came under the control of Hitler and his gang. I've got no idea who now controls the strings and ideology of our Police - someone like the unelected witch Lady Catherine Ashton of the EU? Whoever controls them now has tyrannical tendencies that's for sure.

You talk some bollox, I suppose 9/11 was an inside job and there is a machine that controls the weather.....Police 25 years ago were a lot more corrupt. Did you ever get smacked around teh head by the local bobby? now a days they cant do it and the amount of abuse i saw them get when i went out ,twice on patrol with response was nothing like I have ever seen,. Again, go on a observation shift and come back and tell me they are all as bad as the Gestapo....90% of the shit they dealt with was drunks or addict,even helping a women who was suffering from depression who had a knife, the officer didnt think twice about going near here with just his hands ,no weapons. You seem to have this problem with authority....If you think its bad here go live in somalia they have no laws or government. You will be living in paradise.

[Mr Popodopolous]

What about it? The theory is good. If you get the odd idiot that abuses it then that's wrong, but doesn't detract from my main point about blanketing the entire police force as scum

should we just let them fight it out then?

Well, it seems to be used very often these days- not always with justification. I know for a fact it was used in Bristol in December time, based on what I was told against purely peaceful protesters on College Green. I think it was anti cuts march, something like that- but hardly rioters of a high order, was it!? Similarly, was used against School Children last November in London, to much controversy- what a public order offence they had caused. Then there was the recent decision (and some may say coverup too) with Fortnum and Mason. Though technically I guess they are in the right by the letter of the law to prosecute, the fact that a police officer commented on how well they had behaved etc only adds to a bad rep. Mud sticks and all that.

http://www.bristol.i.../article/702376

Calling all police scum is perhaps a bit much but down the years they have in some respects made a bad rep for themselves- as with the examples above.Rod for their own back, some might say.

Forgot to add, ECHR will be adjudicating as to whether kettling is proportionate, or appropriate in a democracy.

[Mr Popodopolous]

As has already been mentioned, our Police service was nowhere near as corrupt 25 years ago as they are now. During the Weimar Republic the Prussian State Police (the Gestapo) were probably nowhere near as bad but then they came under the control of Hitler and his gang. I've got no idea who now controls the strings and ideology of our Police - someone like the unelected witch Lady Catherine Ashton of the EU? Whoever controls them now has tyrannical tendencies that's for sure.

Well I wasn't alive 25 years ago so can hardly comment on the quality of our police over that period. Like I said though, with regards civil liberties Europe is an interesting and in some respects, contradictory arbiter of civil liberties or lack of.

[Davros]

I dont go to reading games ever since I had a similar situation about 8 years ago, basically got off the train from london made my self known to the police as an away supporter who wanted to get to the away end of the staduim as safe and hassle free as possible, some trouble kicked off and they shoved all the football fans onto one bus heading towards the home end of the staduim, they also bundled all the drunken reading thugs onto the same bus one of the few times in my life I felt scared for my life.

I dont trust the police at football games at all now fullstop.

[eskay]

Disgusting story, another cover-up by your good old friendly bobby.

[Monkeh]

very one sided bias story I've been going home and away for 23 years now I've probbally seen police over react 4 or 5 times not often,

The amount of abuse police in this country face is whats sickening the amount of dis-repect they get for doing a very differcult job is also disgracful,

Yes they make mastake yes some times they go over the top they are human after all look at some of the things that happen,

Having to be called out by paramedics because of stones getting thrown at them by yobs same with the fire service no wonder there is isolated incedents like these the pressure on them is awful,

Expect it to get worse with this shitty govenment cutting every bit of support they get as well,

Also think yourself lucky we don't have the yank police force as this chap wouldn't of been bitten he would of been shot dead

[Riaz]

very one sided bias story I've been going home and away for 23 years now I've probbally seen police over react 4 or 5 times not often,

The amount of abuse police in this country face is whats sickening the amount of dis-repect they get for doing a very differcult job is also disgracful,

Yes they make mastake yes some times they go over the top they are human after all look at some of the things that happen,

Having to be called out by paramedics because of stones getting thrown at them by yobs same with the fire service no wonder there is isolated incedents like these the pressure on them is awful,

Expect it to get worse with this shitty govenment cutting every bit of support they get as well,

Also think yourself lucky we don't have the yank police force as this chap wouldn't of been bitten he would of been shot dead

And then you woke up....

[Keith_Lemon]

A few seasons ago when we were away to Plymouth a lot of fans came down by train. So when arrived at the train station in Plymouth we were escorted from the station to the ground, christ it was like walking in slow motion with the speed we were going. Some of the officers then and all male officers were being absolute idiots. Playing the jack the lad character and the bully. This one officer harrased this one guy from the station all the way to the ground for no apparent reason at all. Fair play to the bloke not saying anything or having the temptation to whack him.

In my view police make matters worse by mouthing off for no apparent reason. While there was another city fan and a police officer just having a friendly chat throughout the journey, which was great to see without causing any problems between the two.

[Robbored]

Its down to the senior police officer on duty to make it clear during the briefing what is expected in terms of behaviour from his/her officers. We've all seen coppers dish out brutality on TV as the Tomlinson case shows as well as witnessing OTT tactics like those at Walsall. I had two inspectors from a different constabulary visit me in my home from internal affairs after that. So obviously they were investigating after all the complaints.

If I remember rightly not long after the Walsall fiasco, we went to either Torquay or Argyle ( can't quite remember which) and the policing at those games was so laid back and unobtrusive that you barely noticed them. The police don't get wrong at every game.

[Red-Robbo]

Backing up corrupt Police is - literally - an army of Crown Prosecution Service lawyers - most often Toffs with refined and braying accents. Even if a Policeman is as guilty as hell of an offence he's got this army of CPS lawyers to help him in court - that's if the Policeman ever gets taken to court in the first place because there's plenty of his corrupt Police buddies that'll provide false statements to help get him off a summons to court.

Surely if a policeman was takien to court it would be the "toff" CPS lawyers prosecuting him. He'd have a different team of posh, braying defence lawyers, probably paid for by the Police Federation.

Anyway, I do agree that the exercise of absolute, unchecked power has corrupted many police officers, who behave like little Hitlers. Not just at footie matches either. They are also utterly shit at investigating crimes, as a rule, too.

[Carey 6]

Well, it seems to be used very often these days- not always with justification. I know for a fact it was used in Bristol in December time, based on what I was told against purely peaceful protesters on College Green. I think it was anti cuts march, something like that- but hardly rioters of a high order, was it!? Similarly, was used against School Children last November in London, to much controversy- what a public order offence they had caused. Then there was the recent decision (and some may say coverup too) with Fortnum and Mason. Though technically I guess they are in the right by the letter of the law to prosecute, the fact that a police officer commented on how well they had behaved etc only adds to a bad rep. Mud sticks and all that.

http://www.bristol.i.../article/702376

Calling all police scum is perhaps a bit much but down the years they have in some respects made a bad rep for themselves- as with the examples above.Rod for their own back, some might say.

Forgot to add, ECHR will be adjudicating as to whether kettling is proportionate, or appropriate in a democracy.

Was there during it, they kettled about 500 students just walking peacefully, as soon as we set off from college green they tried to kettle us, they do however say something about kettling being used when there is a threat of violence...but there was none at this moment yet they still did it, kettled at the top of park street for about hour and half, then marched us all down to college green where they kept us for a further couple of hours. I think police do a great job on the streets, it's just they have flaws with their big crowd controls.

[CotswoldRed]

Haven't bothered to read it. I know what the police are like. But what can anyone do??

Just hope we never victims of the polive??

I would strongly recommend that if things get a bit tasty with the Old Bill then you should leave your camera phones rolling. Any evidence you can muster is your only backup.

[Andy082005]

There is some real bullshit in this thread even by this forum's standards.

I'm not condoning any unwarrented police brutality, and as I don't know the specifics of this case - as does know one else here - then I can't comment on that.

What I can comment on is the ludicrous anti-police sentiment in here. The tarring with the same brush. The police are scum etc. Quite incredible really. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. The vast majority of the policeforce are hard working, honest people. Fortunately it is incidents of disgusting police brutality such as the Ian Tomlinson case recently that are so much the exception to an otherwise superb organisation.

I have respect for the police, but when it comes to football, they are known to abuse their power. One thing that always sticks in my mind is my mate who works in the West Midlands Constabulary. He said to me once that there are so many officers who love working the games, an even volunteer to do it on overtime, just because they know they can get away with certain things they wouldnt be able to get away with normally.

Ive never been arrested, and ive never thrown a punch at a football match.....but I have on countless occasions, been treated like a scum bag by our friends in blue. I have on countless occasions had, what I believe to be my human rights, taken away. "Walk here....go there". QPR away a couple of seasons ago, missed the first 35 minutes thanks to the police holding us up. There was no trouble in or around the pub, yet if we tried to leave their little escort...we were threatened with arrest.

Crewe away in our promotion season. We swapped trains coming home at Brum, the reception we got there was unbelievable. Anyone would have thought a train full of high risk terrorists had turned up. I didnt see an ounce of trouble all day, yet they still insisted on confiscating (I prefer the word stealing)....everyones cans of beer. They then shut the bar on the train aswell. For what reason?? they didnt give one.

I could go on....and on...and on.

Respect works both ways.

Out of interest, I would love to know what the percentage of football fans at a game of football are hooligans who want to cause trouble....compared to the percentage of coppers on duty who are thugs and bullies

[Riaz]

Ive never been arrested, and ive never thrown a punch at a football match.....but I have on countless occasions, been treated like a scum bag by our friends in blue. I have on countless occasions had, what I believe to be my human rights, taken away. "Walk here....go there". QPR away a couple of seasons ago, missed the first 35 minutes thanks to the police holding us up. There was no trouble in or around the pub, yet if we tried to leave their little escort...we were threatened with arrest.

Same here - that was a disgrace!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Was there during it, they kettled about 500 students just walking peacefully, as soon as we set off from college green they tried to kettle us, they do however say something about kettling being used when there is a threat of violence...but there was none at this moment yet they still did it, kettled at the top of park street for about hour and half, then marched us all down to college green where they kept us for a further couple of hours. I think police do a great job on the streets, it's just they have flaws with their big crowd controls.

Default mechanism perhaps? Certainly seemed way ott in this instance.

[grifty]

The police have to be somewhat aggressive and 'in your face' at football. Could you imagine one going upto a group of hooligans trying to get at another group and saying "err excuse me chaps, would you mind awfully settling down and watching the game ?"

I never really believe these news articles. The newspapers want something to moan about and will always pick the side of the 'victim'

What made me laugh was this quote "There was a lot of pain and a lot of blood. I knew from my own medical knowledge that I'd been badly hurt."

He's obviously doing well in his degree!

[Andy082005]

The police have to be somewhat aggressive and 'in your face' at football. Could you imagine one going upto a group of hooligans trying to get at another group and saying "err excuse me chaps, would you mind awfully settling down and watching the game ?"

I never really believe these news articles. The newspapers want something to moan about and will always pick the side of the 'victim'

What made me laugh was this quote "There was a lot of pain and a lot of blood. I knew from my own medical knowledge that I'd been badly hurt."

He's obviously doing well in his degree!

.....but no one disagrees with this, and you I agree a group of hooligans should be dealt with in this way. The issue is how they treat EVERY football fan as a hooligan and how they are allowed to get away with it.

[T R]

I thought the police were supposed to protect the people. now it seems the people need protecting from the police, what a sad world.

[grifty]

.....but no one disagrees with this, and you I agree a group of hooligans should be dealt with in this way. The issue is how they treat EVERY football fan as a hooligan and how they are allowed to get away with it.

I agree, but consideration has to be made how the policeman can tell who is a hooligan and who isn't. Obviously there will be some obviously ones like old people and families, but I assume the majority of people on here complaining about the heavy-handedness will be men aged between 18-55 - who, lets be fair, will be the age range involved in hooliganism.

All the hooligans would have to do is say "I'm not up for trouble" and they should be let off to do what they want?

[Mr Mosquito]

You talk some bollox, I suppose 9/11 was an inside job and there is a machine that controls the weather.....Police 25 years ago were a lot more corrupt. Did you ever get smacked around teh head by the local bobby? now a days they cant do it and the amount of abuse i saw them get when i went out ,twice on patrol with response was nothing like I have ever seen,. Again, go on a observation shift and come back and tell me they are all as bad as the Gestapo....90% of the shit they dealt with was drunks or addict,even helping a women who was suffering from depression who had a knife, the officer didnt think twice about going near here with just his hands ,no weapons. You seem to have this problem with authority....If you think its bad here go live in somalia they have no laws or government. You will be living in paradise.

Firstly, I'm not talking I'm writing. Secondly, this thread is about an incident on Reading station, when a 20-year-old Leeds University medical student - Tommy - was forced to the ground by Police and a Police dog was set on him. The dog bit fiercely into Tommy's face - he couldn't even raise his handcuffed hands to protect himself. The injuries will be with him for the rest of his life, partly because the Police refused him access to antibiotics for 14 hours, by which time infection had taken hold. Thirdly, I've got absolutely no problem with legitimate authority but who in authority gave these Policeman the will and the training to carry out such an assault ???!!! There must be real hatred in the minds of these Police toward football supporters for them to carry out such an assault.

As has been written previously, standards in Policing have definately dropped over the last 25 years. Policing at football used to be robust but nothing happened 25+ years ago to compare to a Police dog being set on the face of a medical student football supporter. This was an horrendous incident of Police brutality.

[Jordan Tansley]

I agree, but consideration has to be made how the policeman can tell who is a hooligan and who isn't. Obviously there will be some obviously ones like old people and families, but I assume the majority of people on here complaining about the heavy-handedness will be men aged between 18-55 - who, lets be fair, will be the age range involved in hooliganism.

All the hooligans would have to do is say "I'm not up for trouble" and they should be let off to do what they want?

So now the reasoning behind my civil rights being taken away is I am in the same age bracket as a hypothetical person who could perhaps start some trouble?

Surely until a crime is committed they are there as a simple deterrent? There presence is enough to stop people acting like louts, and if it isn't, then they can have a word with those people.

[Mr Mosquito]

Surely if a policeman was takien to court it would be the "toff" CPS lawyers prosecuting him. He'd have a different team of posh, braying defence lawyers, probably paid for by the Police Federation.

Anyway, I do agree that the exercise of absolute, unchecked power has corrupted many police officers, who behave like little Hitlers. Not just at footie matches either. They are also utterly shit at investigating crimes, as a rule, too.

Comrade Robbo, you are - indeed - right but at the end of the day it'll be Toff lawyers versus Toff lawyers and a no lose situation for these Toffs as they'll be paid their extortionate salaries and fees whatever. At taxpayers' (our) expense of course.

As a footnote, a German dominated European Union is Hitler's dream come true - but that's another topic.

[spudski]

**** me... I know more 'Toff' lawyers and solicitor's who have been brought up on Council Estates, who have worked hard and got to University to better themselves. What is it with this forum and supposed 'Toff' superiority? They pay tax as well...

More people need to get off their arses in this Country and get educated, regardless of where they come from. It's not a 'Toff' domain to be clever. Too many 'working class' people in this country, that don't actually work, claim benefits, and give working class people a bad name.

Get over the 'Toff' thing ffs... Very,very sad. Talk about chip on the shoulder...

Hat on...waiting for explosives...should be fun...

[Andy082005]

I agree, but consideration has to be made how the policeman can tell who is a hooligan and who isn't. Obviously there will be some obviously ones like old people and families, but I assume the majority of people on here complaining about the heavy-handedness will be men aged between 18-55 - who, lets be fair, will be the age range involved in hooliganism.

All the hooligans would have to do is say "I'm not up for trouble" and they should be let off to do what they want?

Do the police treat all Muslims as "Muslim extremists"?

No they don't. So why should all football fans be treated like hooligans

[LSR]

Firstly, I'm not talking I'm writing. Secondly, this thread is about an incident on Reading station, when a 20-year-old Leeds University medical student - Tommy - was forced to the ground by Police and a Police dog was set on him. The dog bit fiercely into Tommy's face - he couldn't even raise his handcuffed hands to protect himself. The injuries will be with him for the rest of his life, partly because the Police refused him access to antibiotics for 14 hours, by which time infection had taken hold. Thirdly, I've got absolutely no problem with legitimate authority but who in authority gave these Policeman the will and the training to carry out such an assault ???!!! There must be real hatred in the minds of these Police toward football supporters for them to carry out such an assault.

As has been written previously, standards in Policing have definately dropped over the last 25 years. Policing at football used to be robust but nothing happened 25+ years ago to compare to a Police dog being set on the face of a medical student football supporter. This was an horrendous incident of Police brutality.

Were you there at the incident? did little tommy just lay down, when you are being taken donw by many police it isnt a thug gang concept its for a safty reason, if i was to try to get you on the ground and i pushed you back,you will more than likely fall back smack your head and your dead, safty in numbers , you can be taken down safely and with no damage to yourself if there are many officers. Now the fact the dog bite him is wrong ,if that was what happned. And every detained person if injured will be assed by the police doctor at the station , I don't believe he was deprived of it,just the doctor didnt believe he needed them.

[Andy082005]

Were you there at the incident? did little tommy just lay down, when you are being taken donw by many police it isnt a thug gang concept its for a safty reason, if i was to try to get you on the ground and i pushed you back,you will more than likely fall back smack your head and your dead, safty in numbers , you can be taken down safely and with no damage to yourself if there are many officers. Now the fact the dog bite him is wrong ,if that was what happned. And every detained person if injured will be assed by the police doctor at the station , I don't believe he was deprived of it,just the doctor didnt believe he needed them.

...but the doctor at the hospital felt the need to give him antibiotics? Sorry, if a doctor at the hospital feels he should be taking antibiotics, then it should have been administered! Whether it is a bias story or not, the fact a dog was set on him when he was on the floor is a disgrace! And the fact he was refused medicine given to him by a qualified doctor is in-excusable!

Someone has cocked up there.... and should be disciplined big time