Tour De France

[Robbored]

Can anyone explain how it all works?

I watched some on TV but didn't really grasp any of the finer points.

Different stages, different winners with the yellow jersey half way down the field. How do you know whose winning?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

[marshy]

Can anyone explain how it all works?

I watched some on TV but didn't really grasp any of the finer points.

Different stages, different winners with the yellow jersey half way down the field. How do you know whose winning?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Keep watching, they explain it all as it goes along. I find it hypnotic viewing. Basically the guy that cycles the whole tour in the shortest time wins but it won't really get going until they hit the mountains. Andy Schleck to win this year I hope as he was controversially beaten by Contador last time. The official site is a good source of information, surprise, surprise, and updates the overall standings each day. Stick with it Robbored, you will learn to love it.

[Robbored]

Keep watching, they explain it all as it goes along. I find it hypnotic viewing. Basically the guy that cycles the whole tour in the shortest time wins but it won't really get going until they hit the mountains. Andy Schleck to win this year I hope as he was controversially beaten by Contador last time. The official site is a good source of information, surprise, surprise, and updates the overall standings each day. Stick with it Robbored, you will learn to love it.

Just watched today's stage and wondered why the leading group allowed themselves to get caught with only 7k to go. Surely at least one/two of them could have pushed on. I assume they were pacemakers.

Do the teams race as a team, or is it dog eat dog?

[RedZepperin]

Just watched today's stage and wondered why the leading group allowed themselves to get caught with only 7k to go. Surely at least one/two of them could have pushed on. I assume they were pacemakers.

Do the teams race as a team, or is it dog eat dog?

From what I can work out, it's about taking as many performance-enhancing drugs as possible without getting caught.

Allegedly.

[Robbored]

From what I can work out, it's about taking as many performance-enhancing drugs as possible without getting caught.

You mean the leading group ran out of speed?

[RedZepperin]

You mean the leading group ran out of speed?

Deals on wheels...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just watched today's stage and wondered why the leading group allowed themselves to get caught with only 7k to go. Surely at least one/two of them could have pushed on. I assume they were pacemakers.

Do the teams race as a team, or is it dog eat dog?

OK there are 22 teams of 9 riders = 198.

Within the teams you have sprinters, who compete for points in intermediate sprints and stage wins, they compete for the green jersey and sprinters have no chance of winning the overall tour. Also in the team you have lead out men usually 3 or 4 who protect, pace and ensure the sprinter is the best position to attack. Britain has the best sprinter in the world in Mark Cavendish.

You also have climbers in each team, who specialize in the mountain stages, they compete for points in intermediate climbs and overall stage wins in the mountain stages when the tour reaches the Alps, they contest the red & white polka dot king of the mountain jersey, the climb specialist occasionally win the overall tour, so the polka dot jersey and the yellow jersey. Each team usually has 2 or 3 climbers but 2 usually protect and pace the main team climber.

Within the tour there is usually 2 time trials, 1 a team trial where the team of 9 set off over about a 30km course and ride as hard and fast as they can the overall team time is given each of the teams riders and the clock stops after the 5th team member crosses the line. There is also an individual time trial over a slightly longer distance and each rider adds his time to his overall total.

Within the team you have possibly 1 maybe 2 riders who have reasonable chance of actually winning the tour, so maybe about 30 out the 198 overall. The have to be all rounders, but especially good in the mountains because that is where the tour will be won or lost good at sprinting and time trialing.

As for the breakaways, it's usually 3 to 6 riders who just basically have a good go (traditionally lesser known French riders for the limelight) usually they are caught but very occasionally they do succeed, now bearing in mind that most stages are in excess of 100 miles and the peleton (the 190 riders not in the breakaway) pull each other along and pace and protect the guys in their teams with a chance of winning the stage or winning the whole event and those guys have expended far less energy than the breakaway group, because of that protection.

There are great traditions, for instance if the tour goes anywhere near an area where a rider lives, they usually stop for 30 seconds or so and riders meets and greets his family and is then paced back into the peleton by his team.

As for the point about drugs, I understand that and there is a lot of truth in it, however bearing in mind that these guys have the most horrendous accidents, but they rarely stay down and often get up ride on with broken bones and even complete the tour with these injuries. They don't go down like modern footballing pussies when there has'nt been any contact, rolling around feigning injury as if they have been shot by a sniper. This year a major rider has died and another has been put into an induced coma with injuries that the surgeons say replicate the expected injuries from a fall from a 4th storey window. These guys are real hard men, the kind you would'nt pick a fight with, believe me.

I was at a place called Pont Chateau yesterday as the tour roared through and it took my breath away and it only lasted about a minute (although the spectacle start 2 hours before, with a carnival). These guys average 50 to 70 kmh on these stages and speeds of 100 kmh are not unknown when descending from a mountain stage.

[Robbored]

Thanks Esmond, thats very comprehensive!

I'll know a bit more about what going on when I tune in later today. In fact I'm going to print off your reply and keep it handy for reference.

[ralphindevon]

You're right about them going by in a flash Mr Million, last time they went through Carcassonne, by the time I had focused my camera and pressed the button, all I had was the back up cars.

I did seem to gain some magic from Lance Armstrong as he brushed past me at about 50mph, I cycled back up our hill faster than I had ever before.

Hoping for more magic to rub off on Sunday the 17th when they go past the bottom of our road, I will be wearing a City shirt.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

You're right about them going by in a flash Mr Million, last time they went through Carcassonne, by the time I had focused my camera and pressed the button, all I had was the back up cars.

I did seem to gain some magic from Lance Armstrong as he brushed past me at about 50mph, I cycled back up our hill faster than I had ever before.

Hoping for more magic to rub off on Sunday the 17th when they go past the bottom of our road, I will be wearing a City shirt.

My missus called it right, " it was as if the 194 riders had taken all the available oxygen where we were, it took my breath away ". Absolutely right I found it difficult to breathe and even operate my camera.

in 39 years of marriage, I don't recall ever having taken her breath away, still it took 194 men to do that, no shame there.

[Robbored]

My missus called it right, " it was as if the 194 riders had taken all the available oxygen where we were, it took my breath away ". Absolutely right I found it difficult to breathe and even operate my camera.

in 39 years of marriage, I don't recall ever having taken her breath away, still it took 194 men to do that, no shame there.

Watched again today and your spot on about Cavendish - where the **** did he come from?

You were also right about these guys being hard cases. So many crashes and that Boonen (sp?) carrying on with what looked like a busted collar bone.

Do stage winners get prize money for each stage, or is it just prestige?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Watched again today and your spot about Cavendish - where the **** did he come from?

You were also right about these guys being hard cases. So many crashes and that Boonen (sp?) carrying on with what looked like a busted collar bone.

Do stage winners get prize money for each stage, or is it just prestige?

Prize money (which is not a lot actually) goes into the team pot.

Cavendish was a wounded animal today, having had 10 points taken off of him for an incident that usually happens in every sprint, the tour officials don't like him this is the 3rd year running that he or his team have been punished unfairly. He was impeded in the intermediate sprint, it will be interesting to see how the officials judge that.

Also it is interesting to know that out of the 9 men teams, only about 5 of them will earn big money the rest are worker drones trying to take the bigger money when a big money earner retires or moves on and to be honest big money in comparison to footballers is piss poor for instance Cavendish probably earns about 500/750k per year and he is like what Messi is to football at what he does.

Also don't rule out Boonen racing tomorrow.

[Robbored]

Prize money (which is not a lot actually) goes into the team pot.

Cavendish was a wounded animal today, having had 10 points taken off of him for an incident that usually happens in every sprint, the tour officials don't like him this is the 3rd year running that he or his team have been punished unfairly. He was impeded in the intermediate sprint, it will be interesting to see how the officials judge that.

Also it is interesting to know that out of the 9 men teams, only about 5 of them will earn big money the rest are worker drones trying to take the bigger money when a big money earner retires or moves on and to be honest big money in comparison to footballers is piss poor for instance Cavendish probably earns about 500/750k per year and he is like what Messi is to football at what he does.

Also don't rule out Boonen racing tomorrow.

You obviously know your stuff about Tour de France. I've enjoyed watching so far and have a few more questions!

How many stages are there?

On Eurosport today the commentators were saying that Eurosport won't be covering every stage as some are just sprints and pretty dull. Did I hear that right?

Who are the strongest teams?

And.....I still don't fully understand the coloured jerseys. Yellow, green, polka dot.

One more! Yesterday one rider seemed to be using the slip stream of a car and was encouraging the car to go faster at one point. Is that not illegal?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

You obviously know your stuff about Tour de France. I've enjoyed watching so far and have a few more questions!

How many stages are there?

I think there are 21 stages.

On Eurosport today the commentators were saying that Eurosport won't be covering every stage as some are just sprints and pretty dull. Did I hear that right?

ITV4 have it live every day and a highlights show if you miss it live. (eurosport is shit).

Who are the strongest teams?

HTC, Garmin, Leopard Trek, Sky, Saxo bank. if you google Tour de France 2011 go to the official tour site you can read it in English. it'll tell you pretty much everything you need to know or ITV4 tour de france website.

And.....I still don't fully understand the coloured jerseys. Yellow, green, polka dot.

Yellow jersey is for the overall leader (on the road in overall time). The green jersey is for the sprint points leader (points for intermediate sprints & stage wins). Red & white polka dot jersey is for the king of the mountains classification (again points for intermediate stages and mountain top stage wins). These are updated every day. There are a couple of other jerseys one for the youngest rider (with overall best standing) and the most combative rider of the day and of course overall team leaders;

One more! Yesterday one rider seemed to be using the slip stream of a car and was encouraging the car to go faster at one point. Is that not illegal?

it is totally illegal, but tends to be somewhat overlooked unless it is a prolonged abuse, as with today when the peloton are aware of a crash behind them they will deliberately slow down to allow the fallers to rejoin them and team members will wait and pace the fallers back as well. it is a very aggressive sport with quite a bit of fair play and honour involved.

[marshy]

I I love the tour and watch every year. It's great tourist publicity for the French as it takes in fabulous scenery. I've been walking in the Pyrenees the past couple of years so particularly like those stages. Cavendish is without doubt the best sprinter but somehow has the points scoring system stacked against him and fails to win the green jersey. I genuinely think he has a point when he says the tour officials are against him. The points deduction yesterday was ridiculous although Hushvolt(sp?) to his credit said he was prepared to take the full deduction himself. Was checking out Frank Schleck's wiki page to-day.It's amazing the crashes that guy has survived. For what it's worth, given my little knowledge of the sport, I've had a small flutter on Frank Schleck to finish top 6, the reasoning being that he's done it a couple of times before and should pick up time in the mountains as he tries to help his brother to overall victory. Let's just hope he doesn't break his collar-bone again this time. I've also had a small flutter on Andy Schleck to win as I think he was unfortunate not to last time. There was also one hell of a grimace on Contador's face yesterday when he hit the 'mur de Bretagne' and he does have time to make up. We shall see, great viewing for the next three weeks, let's hope we can have a repeat of that amazing Schleck/Contador head-to-head last year which I think was one of the most awe-inspiring sporting contests I've ever witnessed.

[Akira]

EMB - Did i understand your last bit right, if the leaders or group of cyclists know that there has been a crash behind, they will slow down to let their competitors catch up?Also, how would they hear about it, do they have radios/earpieces?

[marshy]

EMB - Did i understand your last bit right, if the leaders or group of cyclists know that there has been a crash behind, they will slow down to let their competitors catch up?Also, how would they hear about it, do they have radios/earpieces?

As I understand it the etiquette of the tour is that they will slow down to enable a 'catch-up' if the maillot jaune(tour leader) is involved. This is why there was so much controversy last year when Scleck had just hit the front on that titanic mountain stage and then suffered what looked like a mechanical fault. Contador took advantage, hit the front and rode away leaving Schleck isolated with no support. Many felt this broke the etiquette of the tour.

I'm sure EMB will know more about this than me.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

EMB - Did i understand your last bit right, if the leaders or group of cyclists know that there has been a crash behind, they will slow down to let their competitors catch up?Also, how would they hear about it, do they have radios/earpieces?

Yes indeed the riders are radioed and mic'd up and can be contacted and make contact with their back up teams. Also the Police, members of the press, camera men and the officials who pass on the information about how far ahead (time wise) all of whom are on motor bikes can convey any information to riders in the peloton and word spreads very quickly and when the riders at the front finally get the message they will slow down and set the pace. The riders will be privvy to all of this information so will be aware of the severity of the crash and whether riders have been taken off by ambulance or when they have caught up with the peloton.

They even stop for a piss in the bushes and their own team members will pace them back into the peloton, most full stages are in excess of 100 miles so between 6 to 8 hours in the saddle.

and Marshy is quite correct about the Contador/Shleck incident. However it must be put into the context that on an earlier stage of the tour on cobbles in the countryside of Belgium Shleck fell off his bike several times and Contador did'nt, Shleck was left quite a way off of the pace and probably out of contention, he and his team whinged so much that the stage result was cancelled, which made a mockery of the tour and made the guys who actually raced on the day, stayed upright and eventually broke away and earned their place on the day very angry and the only person who profitted was Shleck and his team, so I must say personally **** him.

[ralphindevon]

For those who don't know France very well, some of these stages they ride are so gruelling it's unbelievable.

A number of times they have had a stage start or finish in the one ski resorts that I use.

When I drive it I arrive with a stiff neck and legs and feel a bit queasy from all the bends and a bit short of breath due to the altitude.

And that's driving in a car not as long a distance as they've cycled, in often, searing southern heat.

A number of the teams are based around here and you can often drive up behind some practising in the winter.

The funny thing is, on a windy road in the hills they don't hold you up they're going so fast.

EMB will have to confirm this but I think they have a slower resting heart beat than any other sportsmen, barely ticking over. Superhuman.

[marshy]

For those who don't know France very well, some of these stages they ride are so gruelling it's unbelievable.

A number of times they have had a stage start or finish in the one ski resorts that I use.

When I drive it I arrive with a stiff neck and legs and feel a bit queasy from all the bends and a bit short of breath due to the altitude.

And that's driving in a car not as long a distance as they've cycled, in often, searing southern heat.

A number of the teams are based around here and you can often drive up behind some practising in the winter.

The funny thing is, on a windy road in the hills they don't hold you up they're going so fast.

EMB will have to confirm this but I think they have a slower resting heart beat than any other sportsmen, barely ticking over. Superhuman.

I've often wondered how they manage to practise the descents. Do they block off the road to uphill traffic ?

[marshy]

Yes indeed the riders are radioed and mic'd up and can be contacted and make contact with their back up teams. Also the Police, members of the press, camera men and the officials who pass on the information about how far ahead (time wise) all of whom are on motor bikes can convey any information to riders in the peloton and word spreads very quickly and when the riders at the front finally get the message they will slow down and set the pace. The riders will be privvy to all of this information so will be aware of the severity of the crash and whether riders have been taken off by ambulance or when they have caught up with the peloton.

They even stop for a piss in the bushes and their own team members will pace them back into the peloton, most full stages are in excess of 100 miles so between 6 to 8 hours in the saddle.

and Marshy is quite correct about the Contador/Shleck incident. However it must be put into the context that on an earlier stage of the tour on cobbles in the countryside of Belgium Shleck fell off his bike several times and Contador did'nt, Shleck was left quite a way off of the pace and probably out of contention, he and his team whinged so much that the stage result was cancelled, which made a mockery of the tour and made the guys who actually raced on the day, stayed upright and eventually broke away and earned their place on the day very angry and the only person who profitted was Shleck and his team, so I must say personally **** him.

'The Hell of the North' I think that stage was called last year. Most of the riders seemed to think that it was madness including the Stage as it turned the race into a lottery. Crash after crash as the cobbles and stones chipped away at the tyres. It was the stage where Frank Schleck broke his collar-bone I think which indirectly contributed to his brother's overall defeat as it deprived him of his most important team member. I seem to remember Armstrong being way out in front before puncturing. May be wrong though.

[ralphindevon]

I've often wondered how they manage to practise the descents. Do they block off the road to uphill traffic ?

No, when they're practising no roads are closed, they either go out with a car or out alone or with other team mates.

France is a huge country and there are plenty of roads where you won't see another car for ages, especially in the Pyrenees.

I know what you mean about the descents, they look frightening but even in practice they tare down the hills, just keeping to the right side of the road and overtaking any slow cars. Drivers in France seem to be kinder to cyclists than in England which helps.

Lance Armstrong used to practice every mountain climb for the following year's tour during the winter months.

[marshy]

No, when they're practising no roads are closed, they either go out with a car or out alone or with other team mates.

France is a huge country and there are plenty of roads where you won't see another car for ages, especially in the Pyrenees.

I know what you mean about the descents, they look frightening but even in practice they tare down the hills, just keeping to the right side of the road and overtaking any slow cars. Drivers in France seem to be kinder to cyclists than in England which helps.

Lance Armstrong used to practice every mountain climb for the following year's tour during the winter months.

Thanks for that info. Ralph, very interesting. I'm always amazed there aren't more crashes on the descents. Seems to me you've only got to hit a stone or an uneven patch of road and you'd be off down a ravine.

[ralphindevon]

Well, all the talk of how dangerous the descents are and a day after very wet stage, Bradley Wiggins has crashed out on the flattest stage in perfect weather.

I don't know why they cycle so close together in these big groups.

He was really hoping for a podium finish this year. Bad luck Bradley.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Well, all the talk of how dangerous the descents are and a day after very wet stage, Bradley Wiggins has crashed out on the flattest stage in perfect weather.

I don't know why they cycle so close together in these big groups.

He was really hoping for a podium finish this year. Bad luck Bradley.

Yes indeed, but whose the daddy??????, Cavendish and the whole 9 riders of HTC were awesome today and deservedly won again today. I was particularly impressed with his post stage interview, for a guy who is not liked by officials, teams and other riders (jealous bastards) as usual the genuine praise heaped on his team and his genuine shock and upset over Brads crash and subsequent withdrawal.

[marshy]

Yes indeed, but whose the daddy??????, Cavendish and the whole 9 riders of HTC were awesome today and deservedly won again today. I was particularly impressed with his post stage interview, for a guy who is not liked by officials, teams and other riders (jealous bastards) as usual the genuine praise heaped on his team and his genuine shock and upset over Brads crash and subsequent withdrawal.

Couldn't agree more. Cavendish is clearly the best sprinter and has been for the past couple of years. Really hoping the best sprinter can win the green jersey this year.

[ralphindevon]

Yes indeed, but whose the daddy??????, Cavendish and the whole 9 riders of HTC were awesome today and deservedly won again today. I was particularly impressed with his post stage interview, for a guy who is not liked by officials, teams and other riders (jealous bastards) as usual the genuine praise heaped on his team and his genuine shock and upset over Brads crash and subsequent withdrawal.

Agreed, he really is one of the top British sportsmen at the moment. Already in the top ten of all time stage wins

And agree with Marshy, lets hope he can get his just rewards at the end of the race.

With the Pyrenees coming up next week, I always find it amazing that a sprinter can stay in the tour. Would you say it's a bit like asking Usain Bolt to run the 1500 metres, 10,000 metres or even a marathon.

It's remarkable to expect someone who races around a velodrome to then race up a mountain over twice the height of snowdonia.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Agreed, he really is one of the top British sportsmen at the moment. Already in the top ten of all time stage wins

And agree with Marshy, lets hope he can get his just rewards at the end of the race.

With the Pyrenees coming up next week, I always find it amazing that a sprinter can stay in the tour. Would you say it's a bit like asking Usain Bolt to run the 1500 metres, 10,000 metres or even a marathon.

It's remarkable to expect someone who races around a velodrome to then race up a mountain over twice the height of snowdonia.

The problem is the rule changes, brought into this years tour, as Cav has already said they punish his team HTC more than any other team, it's as if the organisers will do anything to prevent Cav from winning the green jersey. This years race has pretty much been set up for Huschold to win again or maybe Gilbert, Cav cannot compete with these 2 guys in the mountains.

[Frenchay Red]

Along with BCFC, cycling is my absolute passion. Good to see a bit of sensible discussion on here (unlike quite often on the footie pages!) and some quite knowledgeable posters.

These guys are truly at the top of their craft. The training and preparation they put in is immense and is particularly targetted to the events they are competing in. It is not possible to hold the required form for all of what is a very long season. So riders who do well in the spring classics don't usually figure in the GC (general classification) of the big Tours (Giro, Vuelta & TdeF). One notable exception being Eddy Merckx, a few years ago. Though I doubt that these days with more scientific training for every rider, better team organisation and preparation, Merckx would be quite so dominant if he was riding today.

Anyway it was a real disaster for Brad to crash out yesterday, given that he came into the tour with really good form after months and months of preparation and a significant win in the Dauphine Criterium, a sort of mini TdeF taster.

Perhaps being a bit harsh, I do wonder whether the Sky team failed to protect him properly and allowed him to be in a place in the peleton where he should not have been. Although Contador came down the other day, all of the other GC hopefulls have been well protected (apart from Radio Shack who are all over the place).

Serious GC contenders should be kept near the front as much as possible and away from possible spills, and perhaps a lack of concentration allowed Sky to drift back a bit, and a just a touch of wheels has ruined a rider's dreams and the hopes of many cycling fans. Perhaps he will recover in time to ride the Vuelta.

Cav for Green

[Robbored]

Perhaps being a bit harsh, I do wonder whether the Sky team failed to protect him properly and allowed him to be in a place in the peleton where he should not have been. Although Contador came down the other day, all of the other GC hopefulls have been well protected (apart from Radio Shack who are all over the place).

Serious GC contenders should be kept near the front as much as possible and away from possible spills, and perhaps a lack of concentration allowed Sky to drift back a bit, and a just a touch of wheels has ruined a rider's dreams and the hopes of many cycling fans. Perhaps he will recover in time to ride the Vuelta.

Cav for Green

I've only just started to follow the Tour de France and thanks to EMB who has provided me with an outline of what is going on. I was able yesterday to appreciate what the HTC team were doing in order to give Cavendish the best chance to win the stage.

One thing I don't get (yet) is why the Yellow Jersey hasn't featured in a stage win in recent days. Cav has won 2 of the last 3. How does he keep hold of the jersey if other riders are quicker? I think I might be missing something.