Football, Rugby And Refs

[Big Stan Hibbert]

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm just watching the All Blacks game and started thinking about how we could achieve the same level of respect for refs in football. So i suggest football tries a couple of things as a starting point.

1. Referees should have their mics audible to the TV audience and to their bosses to improve accountability and understanding of decisions.
2. Players having a bit of handbags (a la Barton vs Gervinho) shouldn't be red carded.
3. Only captains can talk to the ref - not sure if this is already being brought in?

Perhaps this would allow commentators and pundits to actually talk about the football on display rather than questioning refereeing decisions and exacerbating the issue.

[Monkeh]

Refs in rugby have all the tools to do the job and are respected by the players

Refs in football have no tools and are treated with contempt by players and fans alike

Foot needs to move into the 21st century but the corrupt FIFA won't let it

[TRL]

Refs in rugby have all the tools to do the job and are respected by the players

Refs in football have no tools and are treated with contempt by players and fans alike

Foot needs to move into the 21st century but the corrupt FIFA won't let it

Easy Solution. Any player abusing refs red carded, any player other than Captain approaching the ref about a descion red card. If any player/players aproaches the ref to abuse him/her in any match after the first offence then the club gets points docked.

Money and red cards make no difference and only the players are held to account. Clearly a lot of these problems are a club issue, by docking points it is the only way you can really make a club look up and take notice.

Dock points, 1 point first infringment 2 ponts 3 points then in increments of 5 points. It would wipe out ref abuse in about a month at the most. Job done

[Nibbler]

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm just watching the All Blacks game and started thinking about how we could achieve the same level of respect for refs in football. So i suggest football tries a couple of things as a starting point.

1. Referees should have their mics audible to the TV audience and to their bosses to improve accountability and understanding of decisions.
2. Players having a bit of handbags (a la Barton vs Gervinho) shouldn't be red carded.
3. Only captains can talk to the ref - not sure if this is already being brought in?

Perhaps this would allow commentators and pundits to actually talk about the football on display rather than questioning refereeing decisions and exacerbating the issue.

All good ideas but it will only work if it's implemented at all levels. My son plays rugby, ANY kind of dissent or chuntering and they're sent off. Consequently they don't argue with the ref. I don't think they would tolerate screaming parents on the touchline either.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm just watching the All Blacks game and started thinking about how we could achieve the same level of respect for refs in football. So i suggest football tries a couple of things as a starting point.

1. Referees should have their mics audible to the TV audience and to their bosses to improve accountability and understanding of decisions.
2. Players having a bit of handbags (a la Barton vs Gervinho) shouldn't be red carded.
3. Only captains can talk to the ref - not sure if this is already being brought in?

Perhaps this would allow commentators and pundits to actually talk about the football on display rather than questioning refereeing decisions and exacerbating the issue.

1. Do you really think that referees need to be accountable to the TV audience? Rugby is a different sort of game - much more stop start, with much more considered and often complex decisions from the referee. I think miking up rugby refs was more about helping the crowd to understand what was happening. I don't think this would work for soccer.

2. But how do you define handbags? I think the present interpretation - that you can't raise your hands to anyone - seems fair.

3. Again, I think this doesn't suit soccer. In rugby, the captain is often called upon to make key decisions during a match (e.g. what option is taken after a penalty is given), and it would be confusing if the referee was hearing from several players, but this doesn't really arise in soccer. Good refs communicate well with all the players.

My own recommendation would be for soccer referees to apply the letter of the law in the way that rugby refs always do. In particular, they should penalise some of the ludicrous behaviour that goes on at corners and other set pieces. DId anyone see the Welsh central defender virtually throttling Rooney at a corner earlier this week? If the rules are applied firmly and consistently with no exceptions, then no one can have cause for complaint.

[Robbored]

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm just watching the All Blacks game and started thinking about how we could achieve the same level of respect for refs in football. So i suggest football tries a couple of things as a starting point.

1. Referees should have their mics audible to the TV audience and to their bosses to improve accountability and understanding of decisions.
2. Players having a bit of handbags (a la Barton vs Gervinho) shouldn't be red carded.
3. Only captains can talk to the ref - not sure if this is already being brought in?

Perhaps this would allow commentators and pundits to actually talk about the football on display rather than questioning refereeing decisions and exacerbating the issue.

Point one was partly trialled when David Ellery reffed an Arsenal match, probably about 15 years ago although the feed didn't go out to the crowd.. The stick he took from Adams in particular was truly shocking and the whole thing was abandoned. Now all the officials are wired up to each other only.

It would take strong leadership from FIFA to introduce such huge changes and they don't have a strong leader. FIFA would probably argue that referee abuse is only a problem in British football....

[Big Stan Hibbert]

1. Do you really think that referees need to be accountable to the TV audience? Rugby is a different sort of game - much more stop start, with much more considered and often complex decisions from the referee. I think miking up rugby refs was more about helping the crowd to understand what was happening. I don't think this would work for soccer.

2. But how do you define handbags? I think the present interpretation - that you can't raise your hands to anyone - seems fair.

3. Again, I think this doesn't suit soccer. In rugby, the captain is often called upon to make key decisions during a match (e.g. what option is taken after a penalty is given), and it would be confusing if the referee was hearing from several players, but this doesn't really arise in soccer. Good refs communicate well with all the players.

My own recommendation would be for soccer referees to apply the letter of the law in the way that rugby refs always do. In particular, they should penalise some of the ludicrous behaviour that goes on at corners and other set pieces. DId anyone see the Welsh central defender virtually throttling Rooney at a corner earlier this week? If the rules are applied firmly and consistently with no exceptions, then no one can have cause for complaint.

The accountability argument is to their seniors. I think some of the decisions in football are also fairly complex.. lets take for example that Freddy Sears "goal" against us (which was obviously miles wide btw).

I'd class handbags as a bit of squaring up after a challenge. Football needs to man up a bit (with the exception of women's football). Before anyone mentions kids' football and the example it sets, there doesn't seem to be an issue with children's rugby and the adult game is littered with punch ups and violence.

Maybe the role of captain in football needs to be clarified a bit then as per rugby and cricket. Any communication of a decision should come from the ref to the captain and the captain has responsibility for keeping his side disciplined.

Your last point assumes that the ref sees everything. In reality they don't and if they don't see it, they can't give it. If we could hear the refs reason for giving or not giving a decision I think most people would respect it.... unless the ref became Wengerised and fails to see anything, ever.

[David Brent]

Point one was partly trialled when David Ellery reffed an Arsenal match, probably about 15 years ago although the feed didn't go out to the crowd.. The stick he took from Adams in particular was truly shocking and the whole thing was abandoned. Now all the officials are wired up to each other only.

It would take strong leadership from FIFA to introduce such huge changes and they don't have a strong leader. FIFA would probably argue that referee abuse is only a problem in British football....

Yep. Adams called the ref a cheat didn't he. Ouch.

Refs don't even need to justify decisions to players (although they somtimes do justify them) so not sure what the benefits of audible mics for people watching on TV are. The players aren't watching on TV are they?

The only way to instill a bit of discipline and respect for the ref is severe punishments for those who surround and abuse the ref. Instant dismissals for abusive language / behaviour. Get rid of the at least 7 players rule. It would be farcical initially but would work in the long run.

[the frampton balti]

I know this has been discussed before, but I'm just watching the All Blacks game and started thinking about how we could achieve the same level of respect for refs in football. So i suggest football tries a couple of things as a starting point.

1. Referees should have their mics audible to the TV audience and to their bosses to improve accountability and understanding of decisions.
2. Players having a bit of handbags (a la Barton vs Gervinho) shouldn't be red carded.
3. Only captains can talk to the ref - not sure if this is already being brought in?

Perhaps this would allow commentators and pundits to actually talk about the football on display rather than questioning refereeing decisions and exacerbating the issue.

totally agree current situation is farcical and an embarrassment to adulthood and fair play.

hit emm where it hurts red card for dissent equals no wages .introduce an orange card for sending off .

[pride of the west]

Refs only appear to rule the roost in rugby because all the decisions are obvious. Football refs decisions are based entirely on their own opinion and often get things wrong (in the eye of the offender) because the games 10 times as fast.

Refs dont necessarily get respect in rugby. Its more that the offender aint got a leg to stand on and cant argue back.

Footballers get in arguments with refs because theres a difference of opinion which is the reason for all of lifes arguments.

[Big Stan Hibbert]

Refs only appear to rule the roost in rugby because all the decisions are obvious. Football refs decisions are based entirely on their own opinion and often get things wrong (in the eye of the offender) because the games 10 times as fast.

Refs dont necessarily get respect in rugby. Its more that the offender aint got a leg to stand on and cant argue back.

Footballers get in arguments with refs because theres a difference of opinion which is the reason for all of lifes arguments.

So how do you explain the respect shown in cricket when an umpire makes a decision based on opinion? They don't always use the 3rd umpire. The problem is with football and currently it is a vicious circle of every man and their dog questioning the refs and then wondering why kids getting into the game show disrespect for the officials. The constant harassment of the ref during the game leads to further questioning by pundits and media alike, all fueling the fire.

[hippy273]

Point one was partly trialled when David Ellery reffed an Arsenal match, probably about 15 years ago although the feed didn't go out to the crowd.. The stick he took from Adams in particular was truly shocking and the whole thing was abandoned. Now all the officials are wired up to each other only.

It would take strong leadership from FIFA to introduce such huge changes and they don't have a strong leader. FIFA would probably argue that referee abuse is only a problem in British football....

Not just strong leadership, strong cost too. Any rules FIFA add/remove have to be added to all leagues everywhere. It's like video footage every time a goal goes in, the costs would be astronomical and not cost effective.

[Paul G]

Not just strong leadership, strong cost too. Any rules FIFA add/remove have to be added to all leagues everywhere. It's like video footage every time a goal goes in, the costs would be astronomical and not cost effective.

There is video footage in the rugby Premier League but this does not extend to any leagues below this unless it is televised. It is accepted as the way things are because financialy it is not be viable. All it needs is the players to show respect to the official on the pitch. We should not forget that without them the game would not even happen. These are people are like you and I that give up their free time to officiate at games so that we can all enjoy the pastime of sport. This I feel at professional level has been forgotton and its about time we stood back abnd had a good look at ourselves. Fans included.

[red66]

Easy Solution. Any player abusing refs red carded, any player other than Captain approaching the ref about a descion red card. If any player/players aproaches the ref to abuse him/her in any match after the first offence then the club gets points docked.

Money and red cards make no difference and only the players are held to account. Clearly a lot of these problems are a club issue, by docking points it is the only way you can really make a club look up and take notice.

Dock points, 1 point first infringment 2 ponts 3 points then in increments of 5 points. It would wipe out ref abuse in about a month at the most. Job done

good post,totally agree

[Northern Red]

I was watching Warrington v Wigan in the Super League last week, and there was an incident where a Warrington player dived over for a try and the Wigan player came in trying to kick the ball out of his hands as he was grounding it, however he missed and almost caught the try scorer in the face. A melee insued with a few players on both sides getting involved, but after the referee had calmed it down, he called the Wigan player who'd made the kick, and the Warrington player who had been the main agressor in the ensuing row over to him and told them to pack it in. What was noticeable was that the Warrington player (Lee Briers) could clearly be heard calling the referee "Sir" several times during the chat, a bit like a naughty schoolboy who'd just been caught scrapping in the playground. The commentators explained that this was the way it had always been, where the players would address the ref as "Sir". Of course they question and argue the referee's decisions, but it's done in a polite and respectful way.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The real problem is TV schedules yet again. in rugby they allow time to review decisions and also the ref can ask the video ref to review and then can take retrospective action where necessary and this also gives the ref valuable thinking time, also the touch judges play a major role unlike in football, in short the game takes as long as it needs to take to get a fair outcome.

Can you imagine bent Murdoch and his payees allowing that?.

[22A]

Only captains can talk to the ref - not sure if this is already being brought in?

40 years ago this was in. 1971 City away to Brum & the Ref awarded the home side a free kick. Dicky Rooks went to the Ref and asked why the kick was awarded and was booked for it!

Now only a few years back at Old Traff, the ref awarded a penalty to the visitors and had three Man U players all over him shouting & screaming etc but no action was taken against those three.