internetjef Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 need to start 442 at home IMO --------------------------------Jamo----------------------------------- Spence---------Wilson---------------Tangs----------McGivern Adomah---------Elliot------------------Killa-----------Jamal CR ------------------Maynard---------------Stead----------------------- i know its going out of fashion a bit in favour of more fluid formations these days but at least the players have no excuse for not being able to play it. And it hasn't just become a redundant formation over night. With two out and out strikers and attacking wide men theres no need for elliot to go bursting forward. IMO he was always at his best as a combatitive centre mid breaking up play and picking up some of LJs tackling duties in a 442. Elliot and Killa can both sit in front of back 4 and protect them. Elliot doing the tackling and Killa trying to feed the 4 more attacking players ahead, even if just simple short balls to put them in possesion, not necessarily needing to be killer through balls. All the players are natural in those positions (or at least very comfortable in JCR and McGiverns cases). It gets our best players in the starting 11, and when we bring on Pitman there will be more chance of it being in his favoured position as one of the top two. I know the concern will always be leaving our defence unprotected, but if we offer a bit more going forward and look like scoring ourselves that would stop the pressure building on our back four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenyards Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 How is Millen "building from scratch" this season? He was assistant to Tinnion, Johnson and Coppell so involved in building the current squad. He was a player before that so knows the one or two older players and youngsters who have been brought through the ranks inside out. He has signed a raft of players (most of which he doesn't put in the side) and he has signed some loan players. This is Millen's squad. We were a good mid-table Championship side when he took over and we are now a very shaky bottom of the table side. He has lost the confidence of the fans. His team selections seem odd and substitutions odder. He is passionless on the touchline and seems to rely on "statistics" and computer print-outs to analyse the game rather than seeing what is in front of his eyes. By his own admission in most games this season the players have looked second best to the opposition at the start of games and are failing to "come out of the traps" with any enthusiasm or speed - that enthusiasm and speed is usually put there by an inspiring pre-match team talk by the manager. There is no way he should be given another season. This club should have ambitions to have a new stadium and be in the Premier League.....are we as a club inferior to Swansea? Blackpool? Hull?....No we are not. We just lack a manager. Now Brighton have shown that even though they were a division lower last year they have got their act together and are nearer to Premier League status than us (complete with a new stadium). If you want years of mediocrity...stick with Millen...if you believe in the dream that Steve Lansdown sold to fans over recent years then he must go and be replaced by a more experienced manager who can motivate and organise these expensive, well-paid, talented players into something that resembles a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 The strange thing is Millen signings are now mainly proving to be poor to average in fact so much so many either don't get a game or even on the bench and he has to rely on the GJ signings many of whom you have castigated, I for one would not trust him with a decent budget he has already wasted the wrong end of 2 mill and is proving himself clueless tactically, he is out of his depth. Poor to average? who and Based on what? How many of these players have you actually seen play? Or do you just judge them based on how often they appear on teletext? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Millen is essentially building from scratch and trying to keep City in the Championship while he does it. The real development will take place next summer when loads of fringe players will be out the door Give it a rest. He should be getting more out of what's there not unsuccesfully trying to freeze out players we are paying good money to. Starting from scratch? Wrap up ffs. Maynard, pitman, stead, Elliott, cisse, kilkenny, adomah, are all decent enough for this league so he isnt starting from scratch. He should be getting more. When is it going to be his responsibility? one excuse after another. I'm convinced another manager could do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Poor to average? who and Based on what? How many of these players have you actually seen play? Or do you just judge them based on how often they appear on teletext? Teletext or not his facts are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Teletext or not his facts are true. ???? English please ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Excuse after excuse after excuse Teflon will never make a manager he will never get a job after this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangers Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 After the Leicester game we should of gone straight to 442 at home....451 is perfect away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 ???? English please ???? ? The signings haven't done too good, the boy of Plymouth is showing goals on twitter to show how good he was, is that English or were we picking up on a spelling mistake Sir Donald. Sorry Sir Donald mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myol'man Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Considering Brighton are top of the league there wasn't much difference between the two teams today. Not many chances either end and they nicked the points with a scrappy/sloppy goal. The difference was the tactic of isolating Maynard up front on his own. No doubt the plan was for the midfielders to support him but that didn't work very well. In fairness City didn't look like they would have scored if they played until midnight. Millen has to change it for the next home game on 27th September.. I don't want to join the usual Robbo bashing session, but i think you'll find 24th September is the next home game. If we lose at Leeds and fail to score past Basso and Reading i think you'll have a new manager to love/hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednotblue Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 The whole idea of 451 is that the midfield support the striker. Who out of our 3 central midfielders gets forward? Answers on a postcard to Keef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Poor to average? who and Based on what? How many of these players have you actually seen play? Or do you just judge them based on how often they appear on teletext? Your about a month behind as usual, I have seen more than you have this season and last. Pitman can't get a full game. Stead can't get a full game. Woolford can't get a full game and crap when he comes on. Bolasie can't get on the bench. Taylor can't get on the bench. Killkenny LJ doppleganger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Colby-Tit Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Can we play 4-4-2 to a decent standard though? I do have my doubts personally though the current situation is far from ideal- certainly an Elliott-Skuse axis in a traditional 4-4-2 wouldn't fill me with hope, regardless of home, away or neutral. I think we can, if one of Elliot or Skuse is dropped. Millen doesn't seem to keen on this idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Goals win games so consider this. Milly for all his statistics, has to consider the goal scoring issue and we have a major trend that has developed. I think we have played 16 pre season, cup and league games. At this stage we have failed to score in 8 of them. Four of these non scoring games were pre season and 4 since the season started. When you dont score in half your games, its usually a recipe for disaster/ relegation. This point was pointed out to me by a retired bookie. After pre season he said " I think your lot could go down, they have no goals in them ". The defence has only conceded 3 goals in the last 4 matches, however we have to score more than the other teams. Its not happened pre season or during the season. The warning lights were flashing in July, most of this forum can see it and the fans are staying away from the gate. Goals Milly, Goals ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 3-2, 2-2, 4-3, edge of the seat games i don't won't every home game but football is meant to be something i enjoy at the end of a hard working week, not a chess game of football, i have nether heard AG so quiet and dull as under Millen in all my years of watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Goals win games so consider this. Milly for all his statistics, has to consider the goal scoring issue and we have a major trend that has developed. I think we have played 16 pre season, cup and league games. At this stage we have failed to score in 8 of them. Four of these non scoring games were pre season and 4 since the season started. When you dont score in half your games, its usually a recipe for disaster/ relegation. This point was pointed out to me by a retired bookie. After pre season he said " I think your lot could go down, they have no goals in them ". The defence has only conceded 3 goals in the last 4 matches, however we have to score more than the other teams. Its not happened pre season or during the season. The warning lights were flashing in July, most of this forum can see it and the fans are staying away from the gate. Goals Milly, Goals ! Exactly We didn't get the players we were looking for and as such we have had to bed in a back four with an average age of 21 and a bit... KM is/has been trying to protect them as much as possible which explains the five across the midfield, thus leaving Nicky up front on his own...The problem being we dont have goals in us playing like that and certainly Nicky isn't happy having little to feed off...Lets face it his goals at Leicester were from a Free Kick and a dispossesion of a full back which speaks for it self, with a consolation thrown in at cardiff.. Thus we have not created a scoring chance for Maynard in six games (and he has still come up with three goals)...We need to be attacking at home and the players need a lift, we need to set up to win games, but within the abilities of the players we have, as such 352 may be better at the start and not just deployed when we are chasng a game that we often are!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Millen is essentially building from scratch and trying to keep City in the Championship while he does it. The real development will take place next summer when loads of fringe players will be out the door and he'll have a decent budget. In the meantime he has to find a successful formation away from AG (4-5-1) and a formation that works at AG. So far he's played 442 against Ipswich and conceded 3 goals and in the two games since 4-5-1 and has not yet scored a home goal. So what's next? 3-5-2 has been suggested but that would mean bringing Albert inside as he's no wing back. Personally I'd like to see that against Hull on the 24th Sept but listening to Millen after todays match he appears to be under the impression that one up front at home is effective, but no goals at home all season should be a bit of a clue that maybe its not working. No problem with 4-5-1 at Leeds but things have to change come the Reading game. 3-5-2 may be useful enough- I still can't see us dominating the midfield enough in a 4-4-2 however. The whole idea of 451 is that the midfield support the striker. Who out of our 3 central midfielders gets forward? Answers on a postcard to Keef. Well quite, this is it. Not necessarily inherently defensive as a style, the problem seems to be either how we use it or our personnel. The movement is terrible also. I think we can, if one of Elliot or Skuse is dropped. Millen doesn't seem to keen on this idea though. Well yeah, if one them is dropped then maybe. Dunno why Cisse is personanongrata, thought he kept the ball quite well last season but I'm sure Millen has a good reason...Either way though, Elliott's technical ability isn't fantastic, remain wary about 4-4-2 with our squad- though the bad individual errors at the back seem to have been cut out somewhat so maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Some good posts on this topic and I would add the following. Last season after Christmas our best revival had a midfield of Cisse who was very solid and Elliot who ended the season with 8 goals. Elliot is wasted with players like LJ and Kilkenny, he has to spend more time covering for them, rather than moving forward and adding to the attack and the goal tally. Elliot pressures opposition defences and helps close down the opposition midfield. Used with the right partner MILLY he is a strong assett to our game plan in attack and defence. Elliot has recieved plenty of flack since his first great season, he was doing the midfield clean up for 2 players, if anyone could not see that, they know very little about the game. For me he is not as technically proficient as say Luke Wilkshire, but he puts in a grand shift and last season started to move up the field and scored 8 goals. For me and working on previous results, I would play Cisse and Elliot behind Stead and Pitman/Maynard. Stead is a better pro at this level than Maynard or Pitman and should be the first pick in a 4-4-2. Pitman needs to soon get a run as first pick with Stead, Maynard needs to know he is not gauranteed an automatic selection . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Your about a month behind as usual, I have seen more than you have this season and last. Pitman can't get a full game. Stead can't get a full game. Woolford can't get a full game and crap when he comes on. Bolasie can't get on the bench. Taylor can't get on the bench. Killkenny LJ doppleganger. more lies as ever..... it's well know you barely go to games, evidence being the amount of posting your doing during match threads (ditto, last season) , personally I've been to 9 games so far this season as for the player, Pitman and Stead have both proven to be good signings and are merely out of the team due to the formaotion, Kilkenny - mixed but starts ever week (doubt you've even seen him play) Bolasie and Taylor with both signed "for the future" for nominal fee's Woolford - mixed when he comes on, seems to be better at left back than left wing, AGAIN - doubt you have even seen him play. more ramblings from the king of teletext. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talk Of The Town Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Millen is essentially building from scratch and trying to keep City in the Championship while he does it. The real development will take place next summer when loads of fringe players will be out the door and he'll have a decent budget. In the meantime he has to find a successful formation away from AG (4-5-1) and a formation that works at AG. So far he's played 442 against Ipswich and conceded 3 goals and in the two games since 4-5-1 and has not yet scored a home goal. So what's next? 3-5-2 has been suggested but that would mean bringing Albert inside as he's no wing back. Personally I'd like to see that against Hull on the 24th Sept but listening to Millen after todays match he appears to be under the impression that one up front at home is effective, but no goals at home all season should be a bit of a clue that maybe its not working. No problem with 4-5-1 at Leeds but things have to change come the Reading game. Did they play 4-4-2 against Swindon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Did they play 4-4-2 against Swindon? Starting lineup had Taylor and Pitman so presumably so- unless Pitman was on the left once more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Did they play 4-4-2 against Swindon? Yes they did and Swindon ran through the middle again and again........ Bottom line is that 4-4-2 doesn't suit the players at Millen's disposal and its clear why he plays 5 across the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Yes they did and Swindon ran through the middle again and again........ Bottom line is that 4-4-2 doesn't suit the players at Millen's disposal and its clear why he plays 5 across the middle. This. Just leaves us much too open as our midfield isn't good enough to function in that style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Yes they did and Swindon ran through the middle again and again........ Bottom line is that 4-4-2 doesn't suit the players at Millen's disposal and its clear why he plays 5 across the middle. I recall the Swindon midfield passing and moving. It was actually quite enjoyable as I haven't seen that from our midfielders for about 3 years now. We actually have a good midfield squad of players who are quite capable of playing 4-4-2. Bottom line is that Millen is an innately conservative personality who would rather not lose a point than win 3. This attitude is now apparent in the entire team's performance who are scared stiff to risk anything going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 more lies as ever..... it's well know you barely go to games, evidence being the amount of posting your doing during match threads (ditto, last season) , personally I've been to 9 games so far this season as for the player, Pitman and Stead have both proven to be good signings and are merely out of the team due to the formaotion, Kilkenny - mixed but starts ever week (doubt you've even seen him play) Bolasie and Taylor with both signed "for the future" for nominal fee's Woolford - mixed when he comes on, seems to be better at left back than left wing, AGAIN - doubt you have even seen him play. more ramblings from the king of teletext. You really behind the times old fruit, but hey you don't know me never met me yet you feel you can call me a liar, stick to what you are good at, so just keep on talking out your arse. Trust me I have seen more BCFC games than you especially since Millen took over, with all the functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 I genuinely can't believe how much time some are willing to give him. And I say that from a perspective of not rampaging for his head, simply struggling to see what he is either trying to achieve or infact achieving. Talk of him not having his own squad, inheriting poor/unwanted players, every single manager to be appointed to any job encounters this or similar. Those who defend the current state of things are not demonstrating patience, they are demonstrating a complete blindness to a situation approaching critical. We're not talking about a new manager who is struggling to settle, he's been in the role, if you include post Johnson / pre Coppell, about 63 of the last 65 games. There should be something, anything, by now which tells me what he is trying to instil into this team but I have absolutely no idea. On the pitch we look weak and rudderless while off it we're all but a circus. Where is Cisse!? Hunt seems to have had a decent pre-season, why he is literally nowhere? Pre match comments are so utterly tedious they're not even worth reading - players don't respond, his words seem to have no affect what-so-ever. Post match is just the same old repetitive, drab mundaneness. Just where is anything? Where is the fight, the passing football, the leadership, the solid defense (and by that I don't mean James making x amount of saves to keep us in games). Where are the goals, where is the running. Something, anything, the whole club is just ponderously drooping through the motions while crowds drop and interest wanes. How can we be talking about him not having his squad, Stead, Pitman, Killkenny, Bolasie, Taylor, Spence, McGivern, Woolford. Loan signings aside, only Killkenny starts and he appears graced with being an Aussie, coming in with a reputation of being a bit gobby and not being Gary Johnson's son, because I'm afraid the harsh reality is we've, on the evidence so far, signed a replica of a player we already had when being told the squad is too big and wages are too high. I genuinely think it's getting to the stage where, unfortunately, a change is required. A fresh face, fresh staff, reinvigorate the squad and start with a clean slate. Hiding behind fictitious assertions that the squad is poor or we're carrying too much dead wood to make a fist of things is complete nonsense. The truth is the man at the helm needs to start inspiring not just the players, but the fans too, otherwise it's 'thanks for your efforts, we're going to go in a different direction.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pederho ll Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 This. Just leaves us much too open as our midfield isn't good enough to function in that style. What, are centre midfield players cannot play centre midfield? We are in serious trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pederho ll Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 I genuinely can't believe how much time some are willing to give him. And I say that from a perspective of not rampaging for his head, simply struggling to see what he is either trying to achieve or infact achieving. Talk of him not having his own squad, inheriting poor/unwanted players, every single manager to be appointed to any job encounters this or similar. Those who defend the current state of things are not demonstrating patience, they are demonstrating a complete blindness to a situation approaching critical. We're not talking about a new manager who is struggling to settle, he's been in the role, if you include post Johnson / pre Coppell, about 63 of the last 65 games. There should be something, anything, by now which tells me what he is trying to instil into this team but I have absolutely no idea. On the pitch we look weak and rudderless while off it we're all but a circus. Where is Cisse!? Hunt seems to have had a decent pre-season, why he is literally nowhere? Pre match comments are so utterly tedious they're not even worth reading - players don't respond, his words seem to have no affect what-so-ever. Post match is just the same old repetitive, drab mundaneness. Just where is anything? Where is the fight, the passing football, the leadership, the solid defense (and by that I don't mean James making x amount of saves to keep us in games). Where are the goals, where is the running. Something, anything, the whole club is just ponderously drooping through the motions while crowds drop and interest wanes. How can we be talking about him not having his squad, Stead, Pitman, Killkenny, Bolasie, Taylor, Spence, McGivern, Woolford. Loan signings aside, only Killkenny starts and he appears graced with being an Aussie, coming in with a reputation of being a bit gobby and not being Gary Johnson's son, because I'm afraid the harsh reality is we've, on the evidence so far, signed a replica of a player we already had when being told the squad is too big and wages are too high. I genuinely think it's getting to the stage where, unfortunately, a change is required. A fresh face, fresh staff, reinvigorate the squad and start with a clean slate. Hiding behind fictitious assertions that the squad is poor or we're carrying too much dead wood to make a fist of things is complete nonsense. The truth is the man at the helm needs to start inspiring not just the players, but the fans too, otherwise it's 'thanks for your efforts, we're going to go in a different direction.' SJC, you my friend talk sense. Spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 What, are centre midfield players cannot play centre midfield? We are in serious trouble. I don't think they have the technical ability in the main to play a 4-4-2. I'm generally against the 4-4-2 anyway, no numerical advantage in midfield in terms of controlling the game, give the ball away too cheaply a risk, more pressure on back 4 etc. 4-4-2 may suit some sides but I'm unconvinced it suits us at this moment in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 What, are centre midfield players cannot play centre midfield? We are in serious trouble. That's not the way to look at it. Games are won and lost in midfield and if a team sets up with 4 across the middle then the two wide players need to tuck in. By doing that attacking options are restricted. If they stay wide then the middle is exposed especially against a team who are playing with 5 across the middle. I'm convinced 5 across the middle is the right tactic home and away but what to do with the remaining 5 outfield players at AG is open to debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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