Riaz Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Well given similar level experience isn't relevant and McInnes is supposedly this awesome manager - how come they didn't interview him? Oh dear. I'm gonna explain in simple terms, cos your struggling... Chelsea took on a manager who had done a exceptional job in a slightly lesser league. If we appoint mcinnes, we will also taking on a manager who has done a exceptional job in a slightly lesser league to US Its all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 At the time though, before he had become a full has-been like he is now, I too would have picked Fowler if available. Jones hardly picked him though when you look at his time at Cardiff. Ridsdale signed him I believe though - which is hardly Jones' fault. He used to get a helicopter in and out of Cardiff as he said the place was a shit hole, from a man that comes fron Liverpool, that's saying something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hicksy-BCFC Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 so if Dave jones was championship standard thats where he'd be then? Billy Davies like wise? Are you just trying to argue with yourself here? They are only just out of work - they will return when the time is right. I would be stunned to see either take up a position with a League 2 club or even a club lower than the Championship standard. I am not remotely surprised to see Johnson in a league or 2 lower than Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 They are only just out of work - they will return when the time is right. I would be stunned to see either take up a position with a League 2 club or even a club lower than the Championship standard. I am not remotely surprised to see Johnson in a league or 2 lower than Championship. vacancies have come up. they havent got them. do you think dowie is a better bet than mcinnes? He had relevant experience at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I just think the arguments taken by some that experience at this level is not relevant to be ridiculous. Thats the point of this topic. Experience in this division is relevant, but not essential. Look at Brighton. Gus poyet was managing them in his first job last season in league one. It's done him no harm and they have overtaken us.... We need to find the next Brendan rodgers, gus poyet or Paul lambert.... I think this mcinnes chap might be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Tell you what, why do you go on the Southampton board and tell them how stupid they are for appointing an inexperienced physiotherapist - I bet they are really regretting that... Its all about ability, not experience - some people will never understand this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hicksy-BCFC Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 vacancies have come up. they havent got them. do you think dowie is a better bet than mcinnes? He had relevant experience at this level. How do you know they applied or not? For my mind Davies would probably get near on any Championship position around - bar Forest or West Ham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 How do you know they applied or not? For my mind Davies would probably get near on any Championship position around - bar Forest or West Ham. And dowie? he ticks your boxes of experience at this level and above and has a promotion to his name. Seems to fit the profile you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 How do you know they applied or not? For my mind Davies would probably get near on any Championship position around - bar Forest or West Ham. Pompey are after a new boss , it will be interesting to see who gets it and how they get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kala Taro Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Pompey are after a new boss , it will be interesting to see who gets it and how they get on. It'll be interesting to see how the three clubs, Forest, Pompey and us get on with their respective choices. Time will tell who got it right. I hope it's us! Does anyone know for certain that we approached Dave Jones, that he had an interview and that he is not one of the two remaining candidates? Does anyone know if he turned us down either on initial approach or at the interview stage? It's all very well stating that the club should appoint him but what if he didn't want to manage us? Same goes for Billy Davies. I'd be happy with either of those two or SOD or McInnes or even Robins, easy to please I guess. They all have points in their favour and negatives against their styles. It's a tricky choice for the board. The only sure thing is that whoever gets it will have those on here who don't like it. C'est la vie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Whereas we should just be thankful we can get no-names and wait for another few decades of ordinary standard football? Think you're coming over as a right snob with that comment. There are very few examples of top managers cutting their teeth at the top level and most have worked their way up from lesser divisions. It's called gaining experience before you move up to the next level. Let's turn this argument on its head and you then tell us exactly why Championship experience is so vital for success, when so many others have already given you very good examples that go against your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 What inexperienced physiotherapist? Do you mean Nigel Adkins? who had won the Welsh League twice win Bangor and had a few European prelim matches before he went down the physio route. By the time Southampton got him, he had taken S****horpe up twice, once as champions, and once through the play offs. As seeing as the Saints were in League One at the time of his appointment, it was a 'no brainer' as he had proven that he could get out of that league on two separate occasions. He has now 3 separate occasions got a club out of that league as Saints also got promoted as runner up. Not sure where you are going with that, as clearly Saints hired someone who was capable of getting out of that league and had experience of doing exactly that But didn't he also manage to get them relegated back to league 1 twice as well? Someone could also use the same argument to say he couldn't hack it in the Championship either. Hiring managers is a bit of a lottery, because they could do well at one club, but with a different squad of players do badly at another. What we should be looking for at the moment is someone who can motivate our players and get the best out of them, which we all know isn't happening at present. A manager with those abilities really shouldn't have to come with Championship experience to be successful, should he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 What inexperienced physiotherapist? Do you mean Nigel Adkins? who had won the Welsh League twice win Bangor and had a few European prelim matches before he went down the physio route. By the time Southampton got him, he had taken S****horpe up twice, once as champions, and once through the play offs. As seeing as the Saints were in League One at the time of his appointment, it was a 'no brainer' as he had proven that he could get out of that league on two separate occasions. He has now 3 separate occasions got a club out of that league as Saints also got promoted as runner up. Not sure where you are going with that, as clearly Saints hired someone who was capable of getting out of that league and had experience of doing exactly that Bangor and S****horpe yet where is he sat now with a decent squad - You prove my point entirely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the1stknowle Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 If Gary Johnson is a Championship class manager - then why does he find himself managing back down in the far reaches of League 2? How come Martin O'Neil, Dave Jones, Billy Davies are unemployed? That must make them even worse than a League 2 manager, right? Those guys dont even have a level. Come on. You must be able to see that that argument is terrible. Managers take (and refuse) jobs for all sorts of reasons. GJ managed in the championship pretty successfully for three seasons. Surely that is being highlighted now by how we are doing since. He can obviously cut it at this level and that fact will remain no matter where he chooses to take a job. We don't need to rewrite history to push or counter the credentials of the current contenders for the manager's job. By your argument, GJ isn't even a league one manager which is surely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Keep reading, the new manager must have experience in this division.... but why? How many new managers in this division actually come from other championship clubs? Cotteril has just done it, but thats rare! Tons of managers come from elsewhere (unemployed, lower league or Scotland) and do well in this division. The new man would have Championship experience ideally, but its not essential...... What IS needed is a Knowledge of this division - and if McInnes is our man, surely he will have a knowledge of players in this division? he's has been recruiting for a team that has to compete with the old firm. Scotland is not a million miles away and there is good coverage of this division. What we need is a man who can manage and organise a team. A man who can get the best out of average players. That is more important than championship experience. Exactly. I'm sure Keith, McClaren, SoD, have experience of the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yup, he did, your point being. Oh right I see. That he couldnt hack it in the Champs, because of the relegations. So instead of sacking him and trying to find a manager who could taken them out of that league, for which he was hired in the first place, they gave him the chance to do it again. If Scunny had faltered, likely that that he would of gone . He didnt and got them up again. Instead of taking a punt on the complete unknown 2nd time around they kept with a manager who was likely to get them promoted again based on past experience. Hardly rocket science. Maybe a non promotion/ third relegation may have ended his tenure, but that is pure speculation at this junction How so? You said he was inexperienced when they, Southampton, hired him. Clearly he was hired to get the team out of the league because of his previous track record of doing exactly that. He got them out of the league, which was his required remit and is doing amazing well this time around. He has had two previous attempts at this league, admittedly he got relegated, but he has had experience of this league, which is a bit more than the complete unknown that many seem to be championing on here. They never took a punt on an 'inexperienced physiotherapist' as you put it, so your justification of that discussion is null and void. Southampton hired a twice successful manager at that level to get out of that level and it worked. They didnt hire someone at the time who hadnt done it at that level nor someone who had never managed at that level to progress the club. And who did they fire to put a manager in place to get them out of league one - are you seriously trying t otell me that they fired a manager with premier league experience to replace him with a bloke who had previously managed Bangor and Scunny - I mean, SERIOUSLY, do you not think that Pardews "experience" wouldn't have got them out of league one...??? Adkins had demonstrated ability and Southampton saw it and fired a VASTLY more experienced bloke to put him in place FOR THE LONG TERM as they saw him as the better option - or, if you want to put the altenative spin on it, you could call him the "cheap option" Hasn't worked out too bad for them has it - either way, his work is far from done because, HE HAS ABILITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Oh dear. I'm gonna explain in simple terms, cos your struggling... Chelsea took on a manager who had done a exceptional job in a slightly lesser league. If we appoint mcinnes, we will also taking on a manager who has done a exceptional job in a slightly lesser league to US Its all relative. Well said Riaz. It really isn't that hard to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Whereas we should just be thankful we can get no-names and wait for another few decades of ordinary standard football? A certain no name came into Arsenal and made them ****il recently) Manures greatest challengers in the Prem year after year, and who's team was the first team to go unbeaten in a season. AND he had **** all big league experience too. Your arguement is based on twaddle. Great managers can come from many directions, getting Jones or (especially) Davis would be no garantee of success. Lambert, and Rogers prove unproven works. AND while we're on the subject of Jones, Southampton took a chance on him despite being manager of the then League 1 Stockport County....so thats another hole shot in that arguement. Davis's Florist were serial bottlers.. Great managers do not come from one source, top flight. Bad managers exist at every level. We are in the dire mess we are because our two most recent managers made piss poor judgments in getting the players in that we have. Most every manager has made those bad choices.......sadly ours last two made more than their fair share... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 The problem with all this wittering on about experience is simple. Underpinning the whole argument is the assumption that experience makes a manager more likely to be successful. The facts simply don't bear that out. If you'd like to see this proven, try and find a correlation between years experience at this level and resultant league position over the last 10 years. Good luck. Of course, we're not even starting to take into account that being successful is more likely to be the cause of having longer experience at a higher level than vice versa, or the relative expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Took Tottenham from the foot of the Premier League to be recognized as genuine regular Champions league contenders. Took Portsmouth to be regular top half Premier League finishers with a club that wouldn't normally be expected to finish there - when he left they went down. Took West Ham United to regular higher up finishes with squads that would normally be expected to be in danger of going down. When he has left, both clubs previously have struggled without him. A brilliant football manager. Ask a Saints fan what they think of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Ask a Saints fan what they think of him. My dad is a die hard Southampton fan and he thinks he is a judas. But really they all know he is a top class manager like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 My dad is a die hard Southampton fan and he thinks he is a judas. But really they all know he is a top class manager like the rest of us. I know plenty of them and they all think he's shite. I think they weren't a fit for him, and vice versa hence the problems they had. His record really speaks for himself. He also started out at Bournemouth and if West Ham hadn't given him his chance then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night84 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 A look at some other managers... Ian Holloway - A year at Plymouth, Relegated Leicester, promoted to the PL with Blackpool Paul Lambert - Couple years at Wycombe, Less than a year at Colchester, promoted to the PL with Norwich Bredan Rodgers - A year at Watford, Less than a year at Reading before being sacked, promoted to the PL with Swansea Phil Brown - Sacked from Derby with the club in 19th, Promoted to the PL with Hull Experience isn't everything. It's about finding the right manager for the club. I'm looking forward to whoever becomes the new manager. I'm excited that it's not a care taker and hopefully not another 'cop out' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hicksy-BCFC Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I know plenty of them and they all think he's shite. I think they weren't a fit for him, and vice versa hence the problems they had. His record really speaks for himself. He also started out at Bournemouth and if West Ham hadn't given him his chance then... As I said, there's a few Spurs regulars in my office, I'll ask them whether they think they are better or worse off since Redknapp joined. I think they were bottom when he joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the1stknowle Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Erm, Ill think you'll find that Pardew was sacked for a number of reasons, including spunking £3 million on players and not delivering at least the playoffs, despite the 10 point deduction the saints had in that league. It was a harsh target to be fair, but he had the funds to make it and didnt get there. It wasnt enough. Afaik Pardew was Markus Leiberr's man, and Nicola Cortese couldnt stand him whatsoever. When Leiberr died, any good will with the club he had disappeared, and was sacked after thrashing the gas 4-0 because of the 'apparent' failure of the season before and, the personal infighting behind the scenes. Would he have got the saints promoted, probably. However in his tenure he didnt and that helped him on his way out of the door for a club who now had money after being in administration previously. Saints didnt fire a vastly more experienced bloke, just to bring in Adkins, as said above there was much more to it than that but why let that get in the way of anything. Going back to your initial point. Adkins wasnt an inexperienced Physio as you put it, nor the cheap option nor whatever other spin you want to put on it. They hired him because he could get them out of the league based on previous experience. A shout out to all the forum, why do people think that Wenger had no experience or it was a surprise that he did well at arsenal or was a no name. Is it the Japan thing, the british media's interpretation of said Japan stint or something else? Im genuinely curious, because as mentioned on several occasions, Wenger, had plenty of big league experience He was the driving force that helped Monaco become a big club in France, winning the league, and getting them in to Europe as well as winning the French Cup and being runners up in the Uefa Cup and finishing 2nd 3 times in the French league. Hardly a no name. or someone without 'big league' experience. As an aside, first team to go unbeaten in a season, is slightly incorrect, that honour belongs to PNE of all teams who did that in their first season and won the first double, earning them the nickname "The Invincibles" I think because he came from Japan. Not Monaco. And by the logic of some of the arguments on this board, that means he was a manager on the way down. Also, he wasn't a name. He was someone who had success in a slightly worse league than the Premier League. I remember when he was appointed and no one knew who he was in the pre-internet/race to wikipedia to check win-ratio days. So it is a fair argument. If you're saying he SHOULD have been known because he had success in other leagues, then I agree. As SHOULD McInnes be known for the same reasons and indeed is known to many of the boards of directors who have looked at him becoming the manager of their football club. And of course winning the French league is a different level of success to promotion from Scottish League One and maintaining SPL status. But then, we're not Arsenal. And Mourinho, Fergie and Wenger together wouldnt win that league with St Johnstone so there is only so far he can go with them. So I think the Wenger comparison lends itself perfectly to the argument: just because we havent heard of a guy or he doesn't have experience in our league, doesnt make him the cheap option or rubbish or a terrible mistake by the board before a ball has even been kicked. We should be judging the board on the process not whether they appoint "our" man. And you have to say the process they have gone through seems very, very sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.