Johnson Leaves Cobblers

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Do you think that the style of football served by Johnson was great to watch? I said way back that it was not and got slated for saying it. Now, some are saying exactly the same as what I said back then. Their view has changed and now I feel vindicated especially after the insults and abuse I took over what I saw on the pitch and had the temerity to post it.

That's all I've commented on in this thread.

No idea why you should get on your high horse about this. You rarely comment on my posts.

in amongst all of the bullshit, there are 2 inescapable FACTS. When GJ joined us we were almost bottom of the 1st division. When he left we were an established championship side. Hands up how many people wouldn't have settled for that when he was appointed?.

[exiledinwatford]

in amongst all of the bullshit, there are 2 inescapable FACTS. When GJ joined us we were almost bottom of the 1st division. When he left we were an established championship side. Hands up how many people wouldn't have settled for that when he was appointed?.

Well - everybody would put their hands up! This is certainly stating the obvious. No one is disputing either of your facts.

Once again, IMO the quality of football we played under Johnson's reign was mostly cautious, rather unimaginative and pretty dull. One previous poster quite rightly said "hang on - we played well at home to Sheffield United" and so we did. We are not debating Johnsons achievements - we are debating whether his Bristol City played attractive football and I don't think anyone on this forum has said we ever did!

[Robbored]

there are 2 inescapable FACTS. When GJ joined us we were almost bottom of the 1st division. When he left we were an established championship side. Hands up how many people wouldn't have settled for that when he was appointed?.

No-one is arguing with those facts, they are as you say facts.

This debate is about the style of football we were subjected to under Johnson. It was, as most now see pretty dull most of the time.

I understand your confusion as you probably didn't actually see first hand what was served up and therefore don't appreciate what we are on about.

[CotswoldRed]

Well, I remember on several occasions leaving AG after City had won 1-0 or 2-1 under Johnson. The feeling I had was not the 'feel good factor' but more of the ''how did we win that?" Obviously I was delighted to win but at the same time wondering just how much longer City could hold their luck. As it happened, it lasted pretty much all season but went awol the following one.

Ditto.

[Nibor]

Do you think that the style of football served by Johnson was great to watch? I said way back that it was not and got slated for saying it. Now, some are saying exactly the same as what I said back then. Their view has changed and now I feel vindicated especially after the insults and abuse I took over what I saw on the pitch and had the temerity to post it.

That's all I've commented on in this thread.

No idea why you should get on your high horse about this. You rarely comment on my posts.

I'm not on any high horse. You hate Johnson because he pulled your pants down about not being supportive and you bottled owning up. Fair enough, we get it.

In your infamous and woefully inaccurate Conference Manager post which coupled with your attention seeking is why you get so much abuse, you didn't mention style of football or entertainment once. You said he was out of his depth, tactically inept, disliked, unpopular and unable to manage players above a conference level.

Frankly you couldn't have been more wrong and you have nothing to feel vindicated about whatsoever, quite the reverse as his success here proved.

Why don't you just keep the fact that you've got a little boner because he's now having a tough time to yourself? It's neither interesting nor relevant.

My views about his time in charge are available to anybody who cares to use the search function, I see no reason to repeat them ad nauseum.

[Robbored]

,you didn't mention style of football or entertainment once. You said he was out of his depth, tactically inept, disliked, unpopular and unable to manage players above a conference level.

Wrong, Nibor.

I complained constantly about the dull football on display but you can ignore that if it suits your point. I don't deny saying he was out of his depth, tactically inept, disliked, unpopular and unable to manage players above a conference level. A little harsh maybe......

[Esmond Million's Bung]

No-one is arguing with those facts, they are as you say facts.

This debate is about the style of football we were subjected to under Johnson. It was, as most now see pretty dull most of the time.

I understand your confusion as you probably didn't actually see first hand what was served up and therefore don't appreciate what we are on about.

Well here is another fact, only 8 present league managers have got more time in their present job than GJ had when he left us, that means 84 yes 84 have been replaced sometime in the past 4.5 years, meaning that David Blunketts dog could have predicted GJ's demise, the odds on you eventually getting it right were always in your favour, so whilst you are talking about confusion and high horses just bear that one in mind.

[redfred]

No-one is arguing with those facts, they are as you say facts.

This debate is about the style of football we were subjected to under Johnson. It was, as most now see pretty dull most of the time.

I understand your confusion as you probably didn't actually see first hand what was served up and therefore don't appreciate what we are on about.

Personally the 2007/08 season was the most enjoyable I've experienced whilst watching City, and I don't remember not enjoying a game that season. Admittedly the high of Championship football might of had a bearing, but I don't ever remember City not being at it every game?

I think you've set your stall out and you are cimpletely unable or unwilling to see the situation objectively.

[Nibor]

Wrong, Nibor.

I complained constantly about the dull football on display but you can ignore that if it suits your point. I don't deny saying he was out of his depth, tactically inept, disliked, unpopular and unable to manage players above a conference level. A little harsh maybe......

Not wrong in the least.

The context around that remark, which you removed like a junior evil post journalist, was your Conference Manager post. I was addressing that since it is why you get the barracking you have a seeming love/hate relationship for. The clue is in the bit where I said "In your infamous and woefully inaccurate Conference Manager post".

You only started talking about entertainment after the success of promotion, presumably running low on subject matter for your anti-GJ wankathon.

[Kid in the Riot]

Personally the 2007/08 season was the most enjoyable I've experienced whilst watching City, and I don't remember not enjoying a game that season. Admittedly the high of Championship football might of had a bearing, but I don't ever remember City not being at it every game?

Yep that 2007/08 was fantastic, best season following City by far.

No idea what gimps like Robbored get up to at games but we were on a constant high that season taking thousands of fans to all corners of the country, taking over trains and pubs and also GETTING RESULTS against many established C'ship teams. We were unbeaten for the first 9 games I think?!

At the end of the day Gary Johnson took us from 23rd in League One to a Championship playoff final in 2.5 seasons. No one can take that away from him and I will always remember him with great fondness and respect for sorting the club out and laying the foundations for where we are today.

[Donald]

Well - everybody would put their hands up! This is certainly stating the obvious. No one is disputing either of your facts.

Once again, IMO the quality of football we played under Johnson's reign was mostly cautious, rather unimaginative and pretty dull. One previous poster quite rightly said "hang on - we played well at home to Sheffield United" and so we did. We are not debating Johnsons achievements - we are debating whether his Bristol City played attractive football and I don't think anyone on this forum has said we ever did!

agreed.

That said considering the amount of money he had to spend (and how much of it he wasted) he did the job he was employed to do, but bloody hell did he leave the club in a utter mess,

Apart from the first season when he took over, I would NEVER describe Johnson football as entertaining, effective football, never entertaining

[Red Exile]

Yep that 2007/08 was fantastic, best season following City by far.

No idea what gimps like Robbored get up to at games but we were on a constant high that season taking thousands of fans to all corners of the country, taking over trains and pubs and also GETTING RESULTS against many established C'ship teams. We were unbeaten for the first 9 games I think?!

At the end of the day Gary Johnson took us from 23rd in League One to a Championship playoff final in 2.5 seasons. No one can take that away from him and I will always remember him with great fondness and respect for sorting the club out and laying the foundations for where we are today.

Agreed - well said. Great days...best of the last 30 years. Followed City home and away for almost every match with my son. For the first time in a very very long time we were watching a side that thought it could win and often did. Did we dominate sides with Barca football?...of course not. But who imagined we would?

For whatever reason there are a few on here who had it in for GJ and were very anxious to see him fail. In time he did, of course, as everyone does in football. Often they were the same folk who tried to convince us that Millen was the man to take us forward. In clutching at straws they exposed their agenda, which was personal.

Each to his own but 2006/07, 2007/08 and large parts of 2008/09 were wonderful times to follow City. Here's hoping those days return.

[Riaz]

agreed.

That said considering the amount of money he had to spend (and how much of it he wasted) he did the job he was employed to do, but bloody hell did he leave the club in a utter mess,

Apart from the first season when he took over, I would NEVER describe Johnson football as entertaining, effective football, never entertaining

Absolute rubbish. We were playing poor, yes - but he left the club in a healthy state with a decent squad.

[redfred]

Yep that 2007/08 was fantastic, best season following City by far.

No idea what gimps like Robbored get up to at games but we were on a constant high that season taking thousands of fans to all corners of the country, taking over trains and pubs and also GETTING RESULTS against many established C'ship teams. We were unbeaten for the first 9 games I think?!

At the end of the day Gary Johnson took us from 23rd in League One to a Championship playoff final in 2.5 seasons. No one can take that away from him and I will always remember him with great fondness and respect for sorting the club out and laying the foundations for where we are today.

As I said, he's set his stall out and it would be beyond him to say what seems to be popular opinion amongst City fans; that Gary Johnson played attacking and exciting football. It didn't last long, but the memories of Palace away and at home in the play-offs will never fade for me and alongside the likes of Cov City away they were some of the best performances I've ever seen from a City side.

It's all one big pantomime for our Robbo though. "Gary - he's behind you!! With a big knife in his hand......."

[Guest Orj]

I don't deny saying he was out of his depth, tactically inept, disliked, unpopular and unable to manage players above a conference level. A little harsh maybe......

Or maybe not. Let's dissect it, shall we?

Out of his depth? He gained promotion so, not harsh, just demonstrably wrong.

Tactically inept? His tactics saw the club finish higher on the football ladder than it had since the 1970s so not harsh, just demonstrably wrong.

Disliked, unpopular? Bounce around. Light a candle. I'm sure there are other examples but they're sufficient so not harsh, just demonstrably wrong. (note: just because you don't like someone does not make them 'disliked').

Unable to manage players above a conference level? Ummmm. At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious here, managing players above Conference level was the job he performed with more success than any of his predecessors of the previous 3 decades. That you can't bring yourself to admit it because he humiliated you for being a gutless, self-important troll has no bearing on the factual inaccuracy of your statements.

One day later in your life you'll look back and reflect and wonder why you expended so much time and effort pursuing a futile vendetta against someone who brought moments of pleasure and happiness to thousands of your peers. Hours, days, weeks, months of your life, and that's just the time you've spent pursuing the vendetta on this forum - never mind how much of your life it consumed away from the keyboard. You'll either decide that it was a waste of your time and feel a sense of sadness and regret that you didn't channel that considerable energy in something positive to make you happy or you'll decide that it was a worthwhile use of your time and you'll take the bitterness to your grave. Either way, from the outside looking in, it's very, very sad. You of all people, as someone who regularly comes into contact with individuals who waste their lives away, should have the awareness to realise that there's more to life than allowing yourself to be consumed by a warped negative obsession.

[Andy082005]

wow....I'll admit ive not read this thread all the way through....but this topic still rumbles on?????

We all know the facts, they are simple...........heres four basic facts we all know

Johnson was a huge success here

Johnson eventually ran out of ideas and had to go

Millen was clueless should never have got the job in the first place

Robbored talks utter sh*te.

[Nibor]

Absolute rubbish. We were playing poor, yes - but he left the club in a healthy state with a decent squad.

I would suggest the squad was very unbalanced and expensive relative to it's quality and we had just renewed some expensive contracts we shouldn't have. Coppell compounded the problem. Hopefully we will offload a lot of that mediocrity this summer.

[bearded_red]

I remember playing us some decent football under GJ. Remember Sheff Utd at home when Noble and McIndoe scored in a 2-0 win - some excellent football. After we got to the PO final it did get worse though.

It certainly was! When you take into account the quality of opposition that is probably the best I have ever seen us play in regards to pass and move Football. I remember looking at the clock just before Noble scored, seeing there was about forty minutes gone and and thinking to myself that I may never see City look as assured in possesion as they had done that night ever again.

Indeed. The first season when Johnson took over was entertaining once he'd established himself, especially with Russell and Noble in midfield.

That for me is the most annoying thing about Lee Johnson being an ever present. I really, really don't want to get into an argument about Johnson, but in the second half of GJ's first season we played a simple 442 with two wingers and Noble and Russell in the middle of midfield and we played some excellent stuff. It did appear that we were going to copy Yeovil's philosophy of 'We'll score one more than you'. Then we sign Johnson junior and those two players were never allowed to play together again in that formation, even the times that Noble came in and played behind the striker him and Russell showed what a good understanding they have. (See the first goal away at Boro and the second goal at home to Rotherham!). Even on Lee's home debut I remember us trying to play some ridiculous formation that involved one winger and Johnson, Noble and Skuse all playing in the middle.

For what it's worth we did play some really good Football at times under Johnson, as far as I can see this almost always coincided with Noble being in the team, but that is another issue. But there were also times that we played some bloody dire stuff, but our togetherness and team spirit saw us through. I don't blame him for trying to cling on to a one goal lead when we were first back up in this division, and due to our team spirit, fitness and attitude we got away with it alot more than we perhaps should have. For example the last ten minutes in the Hull home game that season were spent in our box and I'm still not sure to this day how we hung on. But this seemed to convince Johnson that that was perhaps the way to go, when in reality we were always going to be found out. In the end for every time we hung on in the play-off season, there was a time that we gave away a late equaliser in the following season and a half.

[Frank Reynolds]

It certainly was! When you take into account the quality of opposition that is probably the best I have ever seen us play in regards to pass and move Football. I remember looking at the clock just before Noble scored, seeing there was about forty minutes gone and and thinking to myself that I may never see City look as assured in possesion as they had done that night ever again.

That for me is the most annoying thing about Lee Johnson being an ever present. I really, really don't want to get into an argument about Johnson, but in the second half of GJ's first season we played a simple 442 with two wingers and Noble and Russell in the middle of midfield and we played some excellent stuff. It did appear that we were going to copy Yeovil's philosophy of 'We'll score one more than you'. Then we sign Johnson junior and those two players were never allowed to play together again in that formation, even the times that Noble came in and played behind the striker him and Russell showed what a good understanding they have. (See the first goal away at Boro and the second goal at home to Rotherham!). Even on Lee's home debut I remember us trying to play some ridiculous formation that involved one winger and Johnson, Noble and Skuse all playing in the middle.

For what it's worth we did play some really good Football at times under Johnson, as far as I can see this almost always coincided with Noble being in the team, but that is another issue. But there were also times that we played some bloody dire stuff, but our togetherness and team spirit saw us through. I don't blame him for trying to cling on to a one goal lead when we were first back up in this division, and due to our team spirit, fitness and attitude we got away with it alot more than we perhaps should have. For example the last ten minutes in the Hull home game that season were spent in our box and I'm still not sure to this day how we hung on. But this seemed to convince Johnson that that was perhaps the way to go, when in reality we were always going to be found out. In the end for every time we hung on in the promotion season, there was a time that we gave away a late equaliser in the following season and a half.

Completely agree. He couldn't be objective when it came to his son and that ended up haunting him a couple of years down the line.

I will never have the fondness for GJ that I have for other people who have been successful for us, but I'll always have respect for the fact that he gave me the best times I've had in about 16 years of supporting City.

[Riaz]

I would suggest the squad was very unbalanced and expensive relative to it's quality and we had just renewed some expensive contracts we shouldn't have. Coppell compounded the problem. Hopefully we will offload a lot of that mediocrity this summer.

Of course - not going to pretend everything was rosy - because it was'nt. GJ lost the plot near the end.

But while mistakes were made - the club was not an 'utter mess' as suggested - would you not agree?

[Nibor]

Of course - not going to pretend everything was rosy - because it was'nt. GJ lost the plot near the end.

But while mistakes were made - the club was not an 'utter mess' as suggested - would you not agree?

Certainly, it wasn't an utter mess. It was in a better position just the squad needed partially clearing out and rebuilding.

[Donald]

Absolute rubbish. We were playing poor, yes - but he left the club in a healthy state with a decent squad.

What!!! Madness?

Decent squad?

You believe haveing players like LJ, McAllister, JCR on long term contracts good?

Having a first choice keeper of the standard of dean gerken?

Having expensive loan players like mairhoffer and agyemang a benefit?

£1m signings like Trudle unable to even get a place on the bench

Having a player like Evander Sno and wasting his ability for most of the season

All whilst helping the club stagger onto record losses, ok SL sanctioned the deals but Johnson recommended them.

You call that a healthy state to be in?

[Robbored]

Or maybe not. Let's dissect it, shall we?

Out of his depth? He gained promotion so, not harsh, just demonstrably wrong.

Tactically inept? His tactics saw the club finish higher on the football ladder than it had since the 1970s so not harsh, just demonstrably wrong.

Disliked, unpopular? Bounce around. Light a candle. I'm sure there are other examples but they're sufficient so not harsh, just demonstrably wrong. (note: just because you don't like someone does not make them 'disliked').

Unable to manage players above a conference level? Ummmm. At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious here, managing players above Conference level was the job he performed with more success than any of his predecessors of the previous 3 decades. That you can't bring yourself to admit it because he humiliated you for being a gutless, self-important troll has no bearing on the factual inaccuracy of your statements.

One day later in your life you'll look back and reflect and wonder why you expended so much time and effort pursuing a futile vendetta against someone who brought moments of pleasure and happiness to thousands of your peers. Hours, days, weeks, months of your life, and that's just the time you've spent pursuing the vendetta on this forum - never mind how much of your life it consumed away from the keyboard. You'll either decide that it was a waste of your time and feel a sense of sadness and regret that you didn't channel that considerable energy in something positive to make you happy or you'll decide that it was a worthwhile use of your time and you'll take the bitterness to your grave. Either way, from the outside looking in, it's very, very sad. You of all people, as someone who regularly comes into contact with individuals who waste their lives away, should have the awareness to realise that there's more to life than allowing yourself to be consumed by a warped negative obsession.

z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z

[Guest Orj]

z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z

15,000 posts (and that's only on this incarnation of the forum) and that's the best you can do? Wow. You've been wasting the last few years of your life even more than I realised.

Piece of advice. If you're no good at this forum debating lark after this many posts and this much time and effort, you're never going to be. Why not just knock it in the head and find something worthwhile to obsess about? Something you're capable of doing to a reasonable standard. Something you will look back on with a satisfying glow of having achieved something with your time.

You're middle-aged, for goodness' sake. Take a look at yourself. Johnson has long-since forgotten about you and has fried much bigger fish since taking you aside and making you squirm. Do you really want to look back at yourself when you reach old age and remember yourself as someone who was consumed with animosity towards a man who probably no longer even remembers who you are? Is that not a pitiful prospect?

[Riaz]

What!!! Madness?

Decent squad?

You believe haveing players like LJ, McAllister, JCR on long term contracts good?

Having a first choice keeper of the standard of dean gerken?

Having expensive loan players like mairhoffer and agyemang a benefit?

£1m signings like Trudle unable to even get a place on the bench

Having a player like Evander Sno and wasting his ability for most of the season

All whilst helping the club stagger onto record losses, ok SL sanctioned the deals but Johnson recommended them.

You call that a healthy state to be in?

He left us as an established championship side. A few players he left us with were poor, but overall a squad that was very capable. Proven by the fact we finished that season 10th

An utter mess, is what I'd describe how Millen left us!

[Ron]

What!!! Madness?

Decent squad?

You believe haveing players like LJ, McAllister, JCR on long term contracts good?

Having a first choice keeper of the standard of dean gerken?

Having expensive loan players like mairhoffer and agyemang a benefit?

£1m signings like Trudle unable to even get a place on the bench

Having a player like Evander Sno and wasting his ability for most of the season

All whilst helping the club stagger onto record losses, ok SL sanctioned the deals but Johnson recommended them.

You call that a healthy state to be in?

That squad took us to 10th place in the league that season. Some people may say 'the shackles were off', but that is to do a massive disservice to this league when we were playing teams going for promotion/fighting to avoid relegation and shows a massive lack of understanding of professional football. It's not as easy as the 'shackles were off', and anyone who thinks so is kidding themselves for an easy excuse.

[Pete1975Legend]

I find it amazing that people look back on GJ reign on a negative stand point.

Promotion, play off final, established championship side and a huge togetherness around the place. No one can tell me that Johnson did not know what he was doing.

Shame that the players as normal got bigger than the club yet I don't see anyone slating them for the way this club has gone since GJ left.

Let's hope the players don't do the same to DMc

[Robbored]

Let's hope the players don't do the same to DMc

Even though McInnes has been in charge for only four games I think he's well respected my the players already. No reason to expect that to change either. He's a ''players manager'', having played to a decent level himself and represented his country gives him credibility immediately. In the short time he's been at City he's impressed everyone and he appears to be a rising star. He reminds me of Moyes when he was PNE and if McInnes can do a similar job as Moyes did then we'd all be happy.

[BristolNorthEndRed]

I find the continued interest in Gary Johnson, strange. I can understand the idea of the original post, and I suppose that leads to discussion, but, I genuinely cannot understand the ongoing debate, most of which has been said time and time again, and some of which can get a little bit nasty. I feel almost no affinity to Gary Johnson at all; I feel a far greater affinity to Terry Cooper.

[glynriley]

Even though McInnes has been in charge for only four games I think he's well respected my the players already. No reason to expect that to change either. He's a ''players manager'', having played to a decent level himself and represented his country gives him credibility immediately. In the short time he's been at City he's impressed everyone and he appears to be a rising star. He reminds me of Moyes when he was PNE and if McInnes can do a similar job as Moyes did then we'd all be happy.

Why ?? Moyes didn't play at the highest level or for his country.