Port Said Red Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I've also read they owe money to a host of clubs, including us! I am assuming that is for Henderson!? Wasn't Hendo out of contract though? Unless we get something because he was under 24? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sadly for their fans i think they will get a 20 point deduction, what they owe and how they have been run is mental, please SL dont cross the road on your own. An Henderson was out of contact but under 23 so we get some money, maybe we can have him back if they don't pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sadly for their fans i think they will get a 20 point deduction, what they owe and how they have been run is mental, please SL dont cross the road on your own. An Henderson was out of contact but under 23 so we get some money, maybe we can have him back if they don't pay That would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Wasn't Hendo out of contract though? Unless we get something because he was under 24? We offered him a contract and he was under 24 therefore we are owed compensation, I think it was 250 - 400k if we didn't offer hinm a contract then they would owe us nowt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Hardly 'sadly', the point is this time the most important thing is that they still have a club at the end of this administration and not rush straight back out signing players they cannot afford like last time, if that means conference so be it at least they will still have a club, if the club goes altogether that's when the word 'sadly' is appropriate. But my god 10 points is taking the piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's a bit silly how a punishment of 3 wins and a draw is fair, 20 points would send out a bigger message to other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Different regulators - last time it was in the Premier League so I can't see that counting against them. i hope they get 20 which is what HMRC are asking for... Whilst I agree that 20 points is more appropriate for their horrendous financial mismanagement, can anyone tell me why HMRC are concerned with points deductions and feel that they should have any say in this sort of sanction? It has no bearing on the amount of money that they are owed, and I would say that strictly speaking any points deductions are frankly none of their business is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 We offered him a contract and he was under 24 therefore we are owed compensation, I think it was 250 - 400k if we didn't offer hinm a contract then they would owe us nowt Thanks for the clarification, I agree we should have him back and give them Gerken for the rest of the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Whilst I agree that 20 points is more appropriate for their horrendous financial mismanagement, can anyone tell me why HMRC are concerned with points deductions and feel that they should have any say in this sort of sanction? It has no bearing on the amount of money that they are owed, and I would say that strictly speaking any points deductions are frankly none of their business is it? But as an earlier poster said it would send out a stronger message, 10 points is patently not penalty enough and as I pointed out earlier this week, I find Portsmouth timing of this administration a little interesting because with the points already accumulated they have a more than fighting chance of beating the drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Thanks for the clarification, I agree we should have him back and give them Gerken for the rest of the season! They will be under a transfer embargo now so they can't have anyone, I would take that right back who tore us to pieces at the gate off them in a heart beat though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think 10 points is enough for the first time in admin. Going into admin isnt always bad management. The economy and results on the pitch can sometimes have an effect on finances.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isawjonshaw Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Don't know - just reported that they asked for the FL to deduct 20 because of their previous administration (HMRC are still owed a few million from that one). lets hope so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isawjonshaw Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 lets hope its a 20pt deduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Cant see it being 20 at all, it will be 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangers Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 It will be 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 it will inatially 10 but could be more later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semblar Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 For the two (rotherham and Luton) who got more than 10 in toal, there was 10 points for going into admin and additional penalties for other breaches of the FL insolvency rules, broadly failure to agree proper exits from admin but according to the news reports at the time it was linked to the fact that this wasn't the first admin for them. So - 10 for going into admin with the possibility (likelihood?) of more because they will almost certainly default on the CVA for their first admin now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 For the two (rotherham and Luton) who got more than 10 in toal, there was 10 points for going into admin and additional penalties for other breaches of the FL insolvency rules, broadly failure to agree proper exits from admin but according to the news reports at the time it was linked to the fact that this wasn't the first admin for them. So - 10 for going into admin with the possibility (likelihood?) of more because they will almost certainly default on the CVA for their first admin now... Aye they have broken their previous creditor agreement so I expect them to get more points deducted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 So PFC's former owner is now trying to blackmail the courts by offering 500k if they appoint the completely incompetent administrator that they used last time. -20 points, all loan players (if any) to go back to parent clubs and forced to cancel contract of anyone that earns more than 5k per week should be enough. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isawjonshaw Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 we want 20! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tins Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 So PFC's former owner is now trying to blackmail the courts by offering 500k if they appoint the completely incompetent administrator that they used last time. -20 points, all loan players (if any) to go back to parent clubs and forced to cancel contract of anyone that earns more than 5k per week should be enough. BCAGFC We all know thats easier said than done haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hippo Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Should be more than 10 as its second time round. Pompey have got a reasonably bad injury list as well at the moment! Not looking great for them. Supposidly they dont want to play any of their kids tho as it would damage the integrity of the league and distort results. What were the reasons for Leeds being deducted 15 points and not 10 in their first season in League One? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toblerone Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 lets get hendo back!!! Can we repossess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Can we repossess? He would probably be a free agent, if we get what we are owed who knows, not if they agree 10 p in the pound that is for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Should be more than 10 as its second time round. Pompey have got a reasonably bad injury list as well at the moment! Not looking great for them. Supposidly they dont want to play any of their kids tho as it would damage the integrity of the league and distort results. What were the reasons for Leeds being deducted 15 points and not 10 in their first season in League One? they tried to explot a loop hole by going into adminstration once relegation was confirmed so they would start in league 1 with zero points and no debt, so the fl punished them for trying to be clever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 We all know thats easier said than done haha. Well we had to send all our loan players back and play the youth team for the rest of the season. A 10 point deduction isn't worth the paper it is written on, administration really did Crystal Palarse harm didn't it..................they got their ground back from the bank and signed players that have helped them escape relegation and get to the semi finals of the League Cup. Rules need to be changed so that there is a PROPER penalty for going into administration (relegated at least 1 division)...............not just a slap on the wrists. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Should be more than 10 as its second time round. Pompey have got a reasonably bad injury list as well at the moment! Not looking great for them. Supposidly they dont want to play any of their kids tho as it would damage the integrity of the league and distort results. What were the reasons for Leeds being deducted 15 points and not 10 in their first season in League One? I wish the short answer was that "they failed to comply with the insolvency rules put in place by the football league", but it seems the longer answer is here........ "For those not familiar with the background to the case, Leeds United became heavily insolvent just six years after reaching the semi-finals of the UEFA Champions League. The club went into administration in May 2007. In line with Football League rules, this triggered an automatic deduction of 10 points from Leeds United's total that season, dooming them to relegation from the Championship. Then, for the first time in its history, the Football League went on to impose a further 15-point penalty on the club for the following season. Why? The story begins with the fact that the Football League insists that a club that becomes insolvent should conclude a CVA with its creditors - unless there are "exceptional circumstances". KPMG was appointed administrators of Leeds United and attempted to conclude a CVA and sell Leeds' assets to a third-party purchaser. Several potential buyers expressed an interest and KPMG sold the club to the highest bidder. Once the purchase had been concluded, the purchaser sought agreement from the Football League that the club could compete in the league during the coming season. However, the CVA did not go ahead. In the words of the arbitrators, the Football League "faced a novel situation"; namely, how to protect the interests of the unsecured creditors in the absence of a CVA? The Football League retains a discretion to permit a club to continue competing in the League without a CVA, but this discretion would be exercised only in "exceptional circumstances". The purchaser could have applied to the Football League for permission to join the League afresh by starting in the lowest applicable League competition (Coca-Cola Football League Two). But, understandably, this is not what they wanted, attempting instead to get the Football League's permission to compete in Coca-Cola League One, the same level of competition it would have enjoyed had a CVA been concluded successfully. Shortly before the 2007-08 season began, the Football League decided to permit Leeds United to compete in League One. However, in exercising its discretion to waive the requirement of the CVA under the "exceptional circumstances" proviso, it would only allow this on the condition that the club accepted a 15-point penalty. The purchaser reluctantly accepted and signed an agreement (the Compromise Agreement) with the Football League, releasing all rights to complain against the Football League, save for a right of appeal. The Football League arranged for the appeal to be heard by a special meeting of all the 72 Football League clubs. By a very substantial majority the clubs found in favour of the Football League. Unhappy with this outcome, Leeds United went to arbitration. The arbitrators did not accept Leeds United's arguments, but in any event, their view was that the case "begins and ends" with the Compromise Agreement and therefore failed in limine. The arbitrators said that the release of rights clause in the Compromise Agreement was not an ouster clause, but was a legitimate release and waiver provision in a commercial agreement. Thus the challenge was dismissed." I am no expert in company law, but I am reading this as "they got out of paying the "10p in the £" type of agreement which had been agreed with clubs creditors and the extra 5 points were a punishment for that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think 10 points is enough for the first time in admin. First time in admin? 1998, 2010 and now 2012. They'll get ten points immediately. They may well get an additional five or ten points for it being the second time in ten years (there is discretion allowed in FL regulations here). If they exit administration without a CVA they will get another points deduction again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 First time in admin? 1998, 2010 and now 2012. They'll get ten points immediately. They may well get an additional five or ten points for it being the second time in ten years (there is discretion allowed in FL regulations here). If they exit administration without a CVA they will get another points deduction again. So all in all they are in deep trouble and likely to be relegated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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