Riaz Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'd call one goal from the end of September to the Palace Game in February, despite starts and getting pitch time, being out of form. Ditto that he has scored only 2 goals this season, when he has started thus far Clearly your interpretation of being in form and mine differ... You cant be in or out of form, if you are in and out of the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Strikers need a run of 5 or 10 games to get sharpness in front of goal. BP has never had that this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I see, so not scoring or contributing when you are on the pitch or picked as starter during that time frame, means that instantly he was was in form then, according to you as it doesnt matter as despite playing, he should be given free reign on that? Clearly he wasnt in the team for a myriad of reasons, but in my view that's mainly to do with not being in form, or else when he did get the starts, surely he would have continued in that position? No? As above, it's clear the definition of a player being in form, are some what at a different point of view to my own Strikers need a run of games - as murraysrightplum says - they need that to get sharpness. Out of interest, did you go last night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 We've had this discussion in January, Riaz, I said then, if he was in form I'd have no qualms about picking him, and have maintained that all season. I was certain, I'd also gone into a number of other strikers who didnt need a run of games to start scoring, but I cant find it here, must have been somewhere else. I cant remember where, basically, though they dont, and that Pitman has come off the bench to score most of his goals thus rather than when starting would tie in to this. As for yesterday, I was in Hospital for a good portion of the day, so wasnt there. Problem? But goalscorers need a run of games to build form - something he has'nt had - so how can you say he's out of form. I suppose gerken is out of form, sat on the bench (mind you, he's always out of form) No problem that you were not there - I was just going to ask you, how you thought pitman played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Gerken, hasnt been playing all season, 2 games was it vs Leicester, ironically and vs Blackpool. Pitman, has been involved in most of our games this season in on way or another, and barring ocassional hot patches hasnt been doing 'it' consistently enough to maintain his starting position. Thus he hasnt been in form. This could all change now like, it's up to him. I was going to use Stead playing, and playing and playing and playing and so on at Blackburn as an example of not building form. Using this season as an example, Chris Wood was going through a mix of coming off the bench and starting (like Pitman) and managed to maintain a decentish strike rate from the start of the season, before for whatever reason going off the boil in October How do you think he did? Sorry, if Ive missed it We will never agree - I feel strikers cannot be judged when they are not getting a run of games. Take Clarkson for example - I dont think its fair to him that he was never given a run of games to prove himself. I feel strikers need a run of games to produce their best. Pitman did exactly what I know he can do - he found space and scored and was unlucky not to get a 2nd, which stead put away anyway. He's just like maynard in that respect - given games, he'll get goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Gerken, hasnt been playing all season, 2 games was it vs Leicester, ironically and vs Blackpool. Pitman, has been involved in most of our games this season in on way or another, and barring ocassional hot patches hasnt been doing 'it' consistently enough to maintain his starting position. Thus he hasnt been in form. This could all change now like, it's up to him. I was going to use Stead playing, and playing and playing and playing and so on at Blackburn as an example of not building form. Using this season as an example, Chris Wood was going through a mix of coming off the bench and starting (like Pitman) and managed to maintain a decentish strike rate from the start of the season, before for whatever reason going off the boil in October How do you think he did? Sorry, if Ive missed it Nobody has been 'doing it' this season including St. Nicky and as you are well aware Pitman is usually brought on when the game is either lost or we are chasing it, which is always going to be a recipe for shipping in more goals. Lionel Messi would struggle in our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 We will never agree - I feel strikers cannot be judged when they are not getting a run of games. Take Clarkson for example - I dont think its fair to him that he was never given a run of games to prove himself. I feel strikers need a run of games to produce their best. Pitman did exactly what I know he can do - he found space and scored and was unlucky not to get a 2nd, which stead put away anyway. He's just like maynard in that respect - given games, he'll get goals. i think you are right, however in regards to clarkson v pitman, on one hand pitman you know can score goals and look dangerous even when he comes on, then you have clarkson who imo whenever he has started previously or come on, never really looks like he will contribute, in respect of rmlf comments in regards to pitman not scoring when he has been involved coming off the bench, i think this is a very unfair criticism. As more often than not when he has been called upon we have been in losing positions, sometimes to the point where there is no hope of coming back. Asking a striker to come on and miraculously change the game in 25 minutes is not fair especially when the rest of the team are going through the motions until full time. Bottom line is Mcinnes has gone on record to say that Pitman is the best finisher at the club, in that respect Pitman is a must starter until the end of the season, we are in a sitiuation where we need goals to win games and if he is our best finisher the Mcinnes rates him as the man most likely to get a goal..... stead and pitman from now till end of season please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 i think you are right, however in regards to clarkson v pitman, on one hand pitman you know can score goals and look dangerous even when he comes on, then you have clarkson who imo whenever he has started previously or come on, never really looks like he will contribute, in respect of rmlf comments in regards to pitman not scoring when he has been involved coming off the bench, i think this is a very unfair criticism. As more often than not when he has been called upon we have been in losing positions, sometimes to the point where there is no hope of coming back. Asking a striker to come on and miraculously change the game in 25 minutes is not fair especially when the rest of the team are going through the motions until full time. Bottom line is Mcinnes has gone on record to say that Pitman is the best finisher at the club, in that respect Pitman is a must starter until the end of the season, we are in a sitiuation where we need goals to win games and if he is our best finisher the Mcinnes rates him as the man most likely to get a goal..... stead and pitman from now till end of season please But he did get goals in his small number of games..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Pitman's goalscoring record for City is top notch 19 goals in 28 starts (40 sub) When you consider at least half of those sub appearances are probably no more than 10 mins. Just think if you converted say 20 of those sub appearances into full starts you could hypothesise he'd have nearly 30 goals in approximately 50 starts. Cracking goalscorer, and thumped home that finish last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 How many starts has Pitman got this season? Probably hardly any. If he has a run of 5 or 6 games in the team he will score. I can't believe anyone wouldn't have him in the team right now which is lacking goals. Once again, he is probably our only player who can score regularly now Maynard is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Pitman's goalscoring record for City is top notch 19 goals in 28 starts (40 sub) When you consider at least half of those sub appearances are probably no more than 10 mins. Just think if you converted say 20 of those sub appearances into full starts you could hypothesise he'd have nearly 30 goals in approximately 50 starts. Cracking goalscorer, and thumped home that finish last night. Absolutely right Kid... Of course, it will never be enough for Tansley or RMLF... ...because he is not Nicky Maynard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Absolutely right Kid... Of course, it will never be enough for Tansley or RMLF... ...because he is not Nicky Maynard.... Being quite the bellend tonight, can only assume you're on the sauce. Try again next time though, Blue nose. Oh and read a few posts too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Great all action performance from him tonight, a goal and an assist to top it all. I'm glad McInnes's stubborn streak finally broke and he went two up front which enabled Pitman a start at last and the reward was three points against a very decent outfit. What more does Pitman have to do hold down a starting place? Came on against Palace, scores twice and scored again tonight. I'll be amazed/very disapointed if he doesn't start against Cardiff. Change his name to Maynard, develop a fantasy that Prem clubs are queuing up for him, string the club along for months in contract talks, stop trying, stop scoring goals and blame rhe fans? Yep, that should do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangers Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hope we haven't burnt bridges for when it comes to contract talks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 8 Starts this season, 23 sub appearences No one is saying not to pick him, I've just said he hasn't been in form this season, thus far I'm willing to bet that he hasn't had 3 starts in a row so not sure how you can tell his form from not starting games? I don't think it is fair to judge a players form by the odd start and the odd sub appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Started vs Reading L 3-2, Vs Blackpool L5-0 and vs Peterborough.L 2-1 Rightly picked for the Reading game after coming on and scoring as a sub vs Hull, scored vs Reading, in his the first full game of the 3 successive games and then was utter dross vs Blackpool and off the pace vs Peterborough. reverted back to sub afterwards I stand by what I've said previously Forget all the stats Ralph and just ask yourself who else in the City squad is as good a goalscorer as Pitman? Even when Maynard was at City I always reckoned that Pitman was the better finisher of the two and only his lack of real pace was the reason he was playing second fiddle. He reminds me very much of Tony 'tap-in' Thorpe who scored 50 odd goals for City. Like Thorpe,Pitman doesn't miss many and imo ( and the opinion of many fans) he should start every game simply because he's capable of get a goal out of nothing and there's no-one else who can fill that vacancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Forget all the stats Ralph and just ask yourself who else in the City squad is as good a goalscorer as Pitman? Even when Maynard was at City I always reckoned that Pitman was the better finisher of the two and only his lack of real pace was the reason he was playing second fiddle. He reminds me very much of Tony 'tap-in' Thorpe who scored 50 odd goals for City. Like Thorpe,Pitman doesn't miss many and imo ( and the opinion of many fans) he should start every game simply because he's capable of get a goal out of nothing and there's no-one else who can fill that vacancy. Problem is, Ralph is analysing his very stop-start season basing it mainly on stats and a few opinions on here. I think he if had seen pitman more often this season, he may have a different view. The lad knows where the goals - that much is obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Started vs Reading L 3-2, Vs Blackpool L5-0 and vs Peterborough.L 2-1 Rightly picked for the Reading game after coming on and scoring as a sub vs Hull, scored vs Reading, in his the first full game of the 3 successive games and then was utter dross vs Blackpool and off the pace vs Peterborough. reverted back to sub afterwards I stand by what I've said previously Oh my god, are you being serious?? Sorry but you really are a plonker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Started vs Reading L 3-2, Vs Blackpool L5-0 and vs Peterborough.L 2-1 Rightly picked for the Reading game after coming on and scoring as a sub vs Hull, scored vs Reading, in his the first full game of the 3 successive games and then was utter dross vs Blackpool and off the pace vs Peterborough. reverted back to sub afterwards I stand by what I've said previously Why are you picking on the lad? He is the best striker we have at the club, just as good as nicky if not better! Keep it up Brett! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I've said he has been off form and out of sorts and used a mix of stats, eyewitness stuff and other things to prove my point of view. That's it. There is no alterior motive, no wanting to get rid, undermine or whatever. He hasnt been on top stride this year, everything IMO points to that..The end. People dont agree with that, that's fine, but to make it out like I've some how got a vendetta or dont rate him or whatever is miles and miles off the mark I don't think that anyone has seen enough of Pitman this season to asses whether he's 'on form' or not. He simply hasn't had the game time to, a) show his form. b) get into any sort of match sharpness. That said, he looked very good when he scored twice against Palace in a 20min cameo recently and looked very good on Tuesday night with a goal and an assist. If you look back over footballing history you'll see a plethora of goalscorers who were often viewed as 'luxury players'.The brilliant Jimmy Greaves was one as was Gary Lineker, Michael Owen and even at 38 Kevin Phillips is still finding the net for Blackpool. These players often did very little for 89 mins but then pop up with the winner. That's how I see Pitman - a natural born goalscorer and imv should start every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I see, so not scoring or contributing when you are on the pitch or picked as starter during that time frame, means that instantly he was was in form then, according to you as it doesnt matter as despite playing, he should be given free reign on that? Clearly he wasnt in the team for a myriad of reasons, but in my view that's mainly to do with not being in form, or else when he did get the starts, surely he would have continued in that position? No? As above, it's clear the definition of a player being in form, are some what at a different point of view to my own Out of interest was Maynard 'in form' for us then ? Just a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to judge that a player can be on or off form based on stats when he's getting 10 minutes here or 15 minutes there. Every time Pitman's been on the pitch this season he's had it about him. The few comments on here about fitness/laziness have been completely wide of the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Again , I've said nada about fitness/laziness here. No, but others have and you've referred to those posts. I dont agree that you can excuse a player from being judged as being off form, because of the continual, he is only a bit part player schtick, as I've discussed above and plenty of times before. If a player isn't peforming to the best of his abilities or consistently when he is on the pitch then, he isn't on form, irrespective. The same points are made against other players in the same boat, and that' seems to be acceptable, but it's different to do it regarding Pitman?. My point is that he has been on form when he's played, you just can't expect that form to show in the statistics you're basing your view on when he is not getting much time on the pitch. Every time I've seen him brought on he's positively affected the game and looked dangerous or actually scored. He's worked hard, he's retained possession and linked play far better than Wood or Maynard, he's helped out wide and still got into the box and his passing is better than anybody bar Davis and Kilkenny. I cannot see anything in his performances to support your idea that he's not been on form whatsoever. I haven't seen points about "form" made against other players in the same boat myself, more about ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Pitman's goalscoring record for City is top notch 19 goals in 28 starts (40 sub) When you consider at least half of those sub appearances are probably no more than 10 mins. Just think if you converted say 20 of those sub appearances into full starts you could hypothesise he'd have nearly 30 goals in approximately 50 starts. Cracking goalscorer, and thumped home that finish last night. Well said. When you consider many of his sub appearances also came on the left wing or for 5-10 mins at the end of a game then it is absurd to judge him. His goals to minutes ratio will still be decent this season and when you consider he hasn't had a run of games or even been played in his preferred position at times suggesting he's been out of form is laughable. Comments from Ralph about Pitman being dire at Blackpool when I very much doubt he was there is priceless. And before you get all pissy that's not a criticism of your attendance Ralph but to evaluate a players performance based on a game you did not attend is ridiculous and one of otib's worst traits. Unless you did make the trip, in which case I take it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangers Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Brett Pitman is a class act and is one of the best natural goal scorers in the league. What worries me is if he will sign a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 One thing B'mouth fans said when Pitman signed for us was that he can tend to throw his toys out the pram when things aren't going his way. A bit of a moper and they sulker they reckoned. The fact that Millen and then McInnes didn't play him as a regular starter despite his goalscoring prowess, might be something to do with the way he reacts to being a sub. In fact Pitman himself said during a Player interview that he doesn't handle being on the bench as he should. Just a thought......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 One thing B'mouth fans said when Pitman signed for us was that he can tend to throw his toys out the pram when things aren't going his way. A bit of a moper and they sulker they reckoned. The fact that Millen and then McInnes didn't play him as a regular starter despite his goalscoring prowess, might be something to do with the way he reacts to being a sub. In fact Pitman himself said during a Player interview that he doesn't handle being on the bench as he should. Just a thought......... There's been nothing at all to suggest that's the case (bar rumours on otib) but even if it is, if RVP was a bit of a nob Wenger would hardly leave him benched. At the end of the day he's our most natural goalscorer and our most likely source of goals. To leave him out of a team that prior to Tuesday had scored the least goals in the entire football league is just absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 One thing B'mouth fans said when Pitman signed for us was that he can tend to throw his toys out the pram when things aren't going his way. A bit of a moper and they sulker they reckoned. But every time he's been brought on his performances have been full of determination, not moping or sulking one little bit. He desperately wants to play, and that's a very good thing to see in a player IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 There's been nothing at all to suggest that's the case (bar rumours on otib) but even if it is, if RVP was a bit of a nob Wenger would hardly leave him benched. At the end of the day he's our most natural goalscorer and our most likely source of goals. To leave him out of a team that prior to Tuesday had scored the least goals in the entire football league is just absurd. I was just pointing out what the B'mouth fans had said. I don't know if its true but Pitman himself did mention it during an interview so maybe there is something in it. The bottom line is that I, like many other fans would like to know the reason our last two managers have not selected him week in week out as a starter. We all know he's the best finisher ( better than Maynard was imo) at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 But every time he's been brought on his performances have been full of determination, not moping or sulking one little bit. He desperately wants to play, and that's a very good thing to see in a player IMO. Spot on Nibor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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