nebristolred Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 We did have a very good squad. Shows what a ba job hoddle did How is winning Le Tournoi and then being knocked out of the World Cup unluckily on penalties a bad job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 How is winning Le Tournoi and then being knocked out of the World Cup unluckily on penalties a bad job? Le Tournoi?? what was that again? WHAT AN ACHEIVEMENT. We got knocked out in the 2nd round - thats a bad job. If we beat Romania, we would'nt have been playing the argies at that stage. Losing to Romania = bad job 2nd Round with a very good squad = bad job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Le Tournoi = Beating Italy, Brazil and France, 3 of the greatest teams in the world at the time. Yeah, that's a pretty good achievement imo. Losing to Romania is one poor game. We drew with Argentina, then lost on penalties, when we had a fair goal disallowed. So seeing as we've established that he had one poor game that matters, name me one manager in the history of football that has never had a poor game? The fact that we only reached the 2nd round is irrelevant when you look at the circumstances involved (team we were playing, goal disallowed, knocked out only via penalties). It's the same as those who criticise Sven. Had we won just one of those penalty shootouts (and we had a 50:50 chance of doing so), we would have reached a semi-final and equalled our best performance since winning anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 So if we follow your logic I can say anything racist , sexiest or homaphopic and no one can argue with me because I can say it is my religious belief. Your sound like a sixth former who have not grown up with stupid views like that. Actually, I think you will find that (amongst others) Some forms of Christian and Muslim faith work very much to those principles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Le Tournoi = Beating Italy, Brazil and France, 3 of the greatest teams in the world at the time. Yeah, that's a pretty good achievement imo. Losing to Romania is one poor game. We drew with Argentina, then lost on penalties, when we had a fair goal disallowed. So seeing as we've established that he had one poor game that matters, name me one manager in the history of football that has never had a poor game? The fact that we only reached the 2nd round is irrelevant when you look at the circumstances involved (team we were playing, goal disallowed, knocked out only via penalties). It's the same as those who criticise Sven. Had we won just one of those penalty shootouts (and we had a 50:50 chance of doing so), we would have reached a semi-final and equalled our best performance since winning anything. Le Tournoi was more of a friendly competition. Not one, that was taken seriously - surely you agree with that/ We lost on penalties to argentina - if we had not had lost to romania, we would have had possibly a "easier" route and got further. Instead of getting to the 2nd round and facing a big team. Managers had bad games? not against teams like romania - we should have beat them, with the players at our disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Le Tournoi was more of a friendly competition. Not one, that was taken seriously - surely you agree with that/ We lost on penalties to argentina - if we had not had lost to romania, we would have had possibly a "easier" route and got further. Instead of getting to the 2nd round and facing a big team. Managers had bad games? not against teams like romania - we should have beat them, with the players at our disposal. 1986 World cup - Lost v Portugal (they were shit then) Drew v Morrocco 1988 Euros - Lost all 3 group games v ROI , Holland & Soviet Union 1992 Euros - Finished bottom of group 1994 World Cup - Failed to qualify 1996 Euros - Drew v Switzerland 2000 Euros - Failed to qualify from group after losing to Portugal & Romania So just to clarify , other England managers have had equally bad results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 1986 World cup - Lost v Portugal (they were shit then) Drew v Morrocco 1988 Euros - Lost all 3 group games v ROI , Holland & Soviet Union 1992 Euros - Finished bottom of group 1994 World Cup - Failed to qualify 1996 Euros - Drew v Switzerland 2000 Euros - Failed to qualify from group after losing to Portugal & Romania So just to clarify , other England managers have had equally bad results. Of course other managers had equally poor results - but they usually earned the right to be manager. Glenn Hoddle has done nothing to suggest he's good enough for that level. Not in club management, or as England Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Of course other managers had equally poor results - but they usually earned the right to be manager. Glenn Hoddle has done nothing to suggest he's good enough for that level. Not in club management, or as England Manager. So you're original comment "Managers had bad games? not against teams like romania " , not strictly true then !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 So you're original comment "Managers had bad games? not against teams like romania " , not strictly true then !! Not the good ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Anyone considered that it might not have always be the managers that have been shite....?!! People go on about the "modern day problems with over paid professionals not being good enough or caring enough about the team, but in truth, our players have not cut the mustard since 1970. Even in 1990 we were pretty shite, if truth be told! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Not the good ones! Not even close to being true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Anyone considered that it might not have always be the managers that have been shite....?!! People go on about the "modern day problems with over paid professionals not being good enough or caring enough about the team, but in truth, our players have not cut the mustard since 1970. Even in 1990 we were pretty shite, if truth be told! That's sort of the point I'm trying to make. We've always had shit results , no matters who is in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Anyone considered that it might not have always be the managers that have been shite....?!! People go on about the "modern day problems with over paid professionals not being good enough or caring enough about the team, but in truth, our players have not cut the mustard since 1970. Even in 1990 we were pretty shite, if truth be told! Like PlymouthCity alluded to earlier in the thread - Hoddle had no such problems. He had a very decent set of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Like PlymouthCity alluded to earlier in the thread - Hoddle had no such problems. He had a very decent set of players. So have most England managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would agree with Riaz, that Hoddle probably did have the best squad of players post 1970 at his disposal, but I wouls also say that not going further in France 98 was just as much down to bad luck as it was down to bad management. Infact it was probably even more down to an individual who many would now regard as some kind of "legend!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateyomike Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 pleaseeeee nooo not hoddle the maniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would agree with Riaz, that Hoddle probably did have the best squad of players post 1970 at his disposal, but I wouls also say that not going further in France 98 was just as much down to bad luck as it was down to bad management. Infact it was probably even more down to an individual who many would now regard as some kind of "legend!" Not sure about that. I actually think the 1986 squad was better. If Robson had not got injured and Wilkins sent off , we would have had a serious chance of winning that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Not sure about that. I actually think the 1986 squad was better. If Robson had not got injured and Wilkins sent off , we would have had a serious chance of winning that one. Possibly. '86 was just before my time of being properly into football, so my knowledge is not that great. It would be interesting to see who from '86 would get into the squad of '98 ahead of their equivilent collegue. Obviously there would be a few, but not sure that there would be that many. I could be wrong - it would be an interesting comparrison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I can see the arguments for and against considering 1998. We played well against the Argies especially when you consider we had 10 men for well over an hour if you include extra-time and were unlucky to lose on penalties. However Riaz's point that we should not have lost to Romania bears substance in the fact that...well we shouldn't have lost to Romania! Since then we did well at the 2002 tournament in my opinion losing to the winners in the QF only due to a goalkeeping error. The following two World Cups were quite simply embarrassing and as I was only 4 in 1996 my memories of watching England at tournaments are mostly horrendous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Nothing embarrassing about the 2006 World Cup. We went out on penalties... again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Should've won Euro 2004 and World Cup 2006. Decent squads for both compared to the rest of the world. 2010 we were too old, not hungry enough for success and shown up as being left behind once again by the Germans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Nothing embarrassing about the 2006 World Cup. We went out on penalties... again. Hardly inspiring though, was it...? Scaping past 3 3rd world countries and drawing against Sweeden before drawing 0-0 with with Portugal and losing (AGAIN) on Penalties. Don't get me wrong, I love England dearly and still, stupidly, get excited when the big tournaments come around. But really, has there been a tournament post '66/'70 where our results and form have actually been impressive....? In all honesty, no, I don't think there have been. Plenty of false dawns with the odd inspired performance/result, but generally we flatter to deceive at every possible opportunity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifelong Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hardly inspiring though, was it...? Scaping past 3 3rd world countries and drawing against Sweeden before drawing 0-0 with with Portugal and losing (AGAIN) on Penalties. Don't get me wrong, I love England dearly and still, stupidly, get excited when the big tournaments come around. But really, has there been a tournament post '66/'70 where our results and form have actually been impressive....? In all honesty, no, I don't think there have been. Plenty of false dawns with the odd inspired performance/result, but generally we flatter to deceive at every possible opportunity! Think we were unlucky in Spain 82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Think we were unlucky in Spain 82 True , went out without losing a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Roughneck Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Not sure about that. I actually think the 1986 squad was better. If Robson had not got injured and Wilkins sent off , we would have had a serious chance of winning that one. Hang on a minute, it was having these two out of the tournament that helped us go as far as we did. The midfield of hoddle, wilkins, robson and waddle looked unbalanced as we lost to a poor portugal side and drew dismally with morocco. There was a real danger of going out in the first round. The enfored reorganisation allowed Stevens and Steven to link up down the right hand side at a time when they were terrorising defences up and down the land for everton. Reid replacing robson helped in this respect as he knew their games inside out, they were an unknown force thanks to the club ban, teams didn't know what they were facing, whereas they knew all about Wilkins and Robson. Ditching Waddle for Hodge was a good move too, but not as good as ditching hateley for Beardsley. Lineker would never have scored 6 goals alongside Hateley, he was just an old fashioned battering ram already outdated in international football. Beardsley pulled defences around by playing deeper and created the space for lineker to be the point of attack. This made us play a shorter passing game rather than lumping it around hoping it would bounce off hateley's head in the general direction of lineker. But, of course, no team was ever going to win a world cup playing terry fenwick at centre half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Robson was the major miss of the 2 , and I dont think Maradonna would have ran past Robson like he did with Reid. Agree about Fenwick though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Roughneck Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Think we were unlucky in Spain 82 Having struggled to qualify, after losing to the swiss and norway, we actually looked quite good going into this tournament. but a few conspired against us. there were the well known injuries to keegan and brooking and they should probaby have been left at home, neither played until the last half hour of the tournament, and in tournament football you need to utilise a squad not go in 2 men light. then when a chance did fall to keegan, he was in no state to finish it. the ipswich lads were out on their feet. ipswich had a tiny squad and were victims of their own success, they would have won the league in '81 if they hadn't done so well in the uefa cup. they went close again in 82, but a lot of players played a lot of games. By the second stage of 82, Mariner could barely walk, let alone run. He'd scored in 5 succesive games (arguably 6, depending where you stand on the czech game), he was vital to our progression. We played worse as the tournament goes on, mostly through tiredness, the move away from a 42 game top division was a sensible decision for the english national side. We didn't deserve to progess from the second stage, germany should have beaten us on the night and we played the spain game at walking pace. Had we got through, France would have torn us a new one in the semi final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I don't think we will appoint Hoddle. He had his chance and if he wanted another then he should have been out in club management since. I thought he was a reasonable England manager. We were unlucky not to beat Argentina with 10 men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Should've won Euro 2004 and World Cup 2006. Decent squads for both compared to the rest of the world. 2010 we were too old, not hungry enough for success and shown up as being left behind once again by the Germans. We were good in 2004, but nowhere near the best side in the world in 2006. It was the height of our overinflated view of ourselves. Since then we've clung to this overinflated view of ourselves despite the clear evidence to the contrary. When we think we're good we always fail. Euro 96 was so good because we reminded ourselves and Europe that we could still play the game. I thought Hoddle continued this well, giving us an edge and assimilating the likes of Scholes, Beckham and Owen into the side at the right time. Unfortunately, his weird views and careless talk prevented him from continuing to move our better, younger players into the squad and the cult of personality took over. Keegan was embarrassing and Sven flattered to deceive. We've been s**** since the moment Sven thought a 17 year old reserve striker was going to help us win the world cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryans Left Peg Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hoddle won't be appointed, neither I think will Harry. Sadly, I can see Roy Hodgson being the new England manager, one of the most over-rated managers in my opinion. Not even Pep Guardiola would make our current England team play well; the players just don't mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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