Nogbad the Bad Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 He deserves a one year contract at a reduced wage with bonus payments if he is selected. He would prefer cover for the regular centre backs Amougou, Wilson, Fontaine, Nyatanga and McManus (hopefully) as well as providing cover for right back Foster. Just like the West Ham match, I cannot think of anyone better to spring from the bench if we are trying to hold onto a lead or grind out a draw. If we have those 5 then re signing Carey would be absurd. The club has a stated policy to reduce squad size and wages so we will definitely not be carrying a squad with 6 centre backs. He's not up to the job as a full back. There are 2 distinct camps here. Firstly those who would renew his contract due to his loyalty, apparent beneficial influence on team spirit, his passion for the club, and the likelihood he will be required for maybe 10 games next season. Then there are those who think that although he can still have very good games, that isn't always the case and his appearances for the first team are sporadic and certain to be increasingly so. He hasn't been a regular first team choice, barring injuries, for the last 2 seasons In Bristol City's position do you keep on giving contracts to veteran players until they are hardly featuring at all due to injuries/better replacements or do you eventually decisively call an end to that player's career before they are contributing next to nothing? The club have been guilty of over generosity when renewing contracts in the past but this bloated squad must finally be culled. No sentiment, no room for popular passengers, no repeating past costly errors of keeping players well beyond their sell by date. Survival will mean a new start for the club and we will need better players than we've had these past few seasons if we are to avoid yet more struggle. The club will show how serious they are about moving forward in to this new era when we see how pragmatic and cold blooded they are when it comes to not renewing contracts. For those on here who are such fans of Carey's longevity at City that they find it impossible to be so practical it has to be pointed out that on the basis of what he is likely to contribute next season Louis Carey is clearly one who should not be retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Considering the amount of players out of contract this season there will be a massive overhaul to the squad, partly due to this I think Carey should be given a 1 year deal on reduced and bonus payments for games played as well. Someone who doesn't mind being cover and can do a job when needed. It also means we don't panic buy a CB who could end up rubbish for us knowing we have Carey. I expect Nyatanga to be sold in the summer, don't know why just gut feeling. Think Bikey could be on his way in with 1 other so, Fontaine and Bikey first choices, the other defender and Wilson as back ups and Carey as cover incase of injuries like this season. Then if we get in trouble bring up a youth player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 I expect Nyatanga to be sold in the summer, don't know why just gut feeling. Probably because he's not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Thought with so many people out of contract we may not be selling many people if any to keep a decent sized but no overly large squad. But I think Del will sell him.... if we can find a buyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Question for the forum ? Carey is very competitive and imo would love to get the all time appearance record. The BCFC site has John Atyeo with 645 however the page is dated 2end April 2011. At that time Carey is listed as 603, add 18 [1] this season, that's 622 appearances + whatever he played in the last month of last season. Supposing he only needs say 20 more appearances to top John Atyeo, he would definitely be playing for a contract. I had an old BCFC history book which showed John Atyeo having 645 starts. Carey is listed as having 622+ appearances, that would include coming off the bench. Question is, were John Atyeo's Stats for 645 starts, and how many of Louis Careys appearances were for actual starts and how many appearances off the bench ? To me, there is quite a difference between starts and appearances. Atyeos record if beaten needs to be beaten on a level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Question for the forum ? Carey is very competitive and imo would love to get the all time appearance record. The BCFC site has John Atyeo with 645 however the page is dated 2end April 2011. At that time Carey is listed as 603, add 18 [1] this season, that's 622 appearances + whatever he played in the last month of last season. Supposing he only needs say 20 more appearances to top John Atyeo, he would definitely be playing for a contract. I had an old BCFC history book which showed John Atyeo having 645 starts. Carey is listed as having 622+ appearances, that would include coming off the bench. Question is, were John Atyeo's Stats for 645 starts, and how many of Louis Careys appearances were for actual starts and how many appearances off the bench ? To me, there is quite a difference between starts and appearances. Atyeos record if beaten needs to be beaten on a level playing field. I don't think you can compare the degree to which the playing field is level as the eras in which they played are so different. The culture and rules regarding substitutions has changed and it unfair to penalise Louis because of that. If we are going to do that then I could just as easily hypothosise that Atyeo wouldn't have played as much if he was from the modern era because the game is now much more strenuous on the body and much quicker. Louis' appearance record is already a phenomenal achievement, and I for one would love to see him become the all time leading appearance record holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I don't think you can compare the degree to which the playing field is level as the eras in which they played are so different. The culture and rules regarding substitutions has changed and it unfair to penalise Louis because of that. If we are going to do that then I could just as easily hypothosise that Atyeo wouldn't have played as much if he was from the modern era because the game is now much more strenuous on the body and much quicker. Louis' appearance record is already a phenomenal achievement, and I for one would love to see him become the all time leading appearance record holder. Just answer the question..... starts or appearances ???? That's all I want to settle a bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 He deserves a one year contract at a reduced wage with bonus payments if he is selected. He would prefer cover for the regular centre backs Amougou, Wilson, Fontaine, Nyatanga and McManus (hopefully) as well as providing cover for right back Foster. Just like the West Ham match, I cannot think of anyone better to spring from the bench if we are trying to hold onto a lead or grind out a draw. Nyatanga should be out of here, as he just isn't good enough; McManus I haven't seen enough to be convinced and Wilson is good but inexperienced. Up against a wily opponent who knows all the tricks, who you going to prefer - Wilson or Carey? I'd say the later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 How is Wilson going to get that experience? Signing defenders over him and retaining old players really wont solve it. Playing him, when he is fit/recovered will ergo, Carey to go. If he isn't good enough to get a starting position over a 35/36 year old then he will never be good enough IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 If he isn't good enough to get a starting position over a 35/36 year old then he will never be good enough IMO Well it's horses for courses and dependent on the sort of threat he will face. I don't think Louis will be an automatic starter every week for us next season, but he will start some weeks and he will be a very useful reserve. Defenders tend to pick up more knocks and suspensions than other players. Pay as you play. Reasonable considering the age factor IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Just answer the question..... starts or appearances ???? That's all I want to settle a bet I believe it is appearances including those made as a substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Well it's horses for courses and dependent on the sort of threat he will face. I don't think Louis will be an automatic starter every week for us next season, but he will start some weeks and he will be a very useful reserve. Defenders tend to pick up more knocks and suspensions than other players. Pay as you play. Reasonable considering the age factor IMO. Indeed, very unlikely he will suddenly become an automatic starter next season when he certainly hasn't been one this season, or last. Very much time for the club to make room for James Wilson - a player with far more potential than Carey has ever had - and other young academy defenders. Carey himself would never have had a chance to establish his long career at BCFC if the club at the time had been determined to continue with long established veterans clearly past their best and thereby stifle his own chances of progression. Out with the old, in with the new - it's the natural order of things and a healthy way to refresh the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Indeed, very unlikely he will suddenly become an automatic starter next season when he certainly hasn't been one this season, or last. Very much time for the club to make room for James Wilson - a player with far more potential than Carey has ever had - and other young academy defenders. Carey himself would never have had a chance to establish his long career at BCFC if the club at the time had been determined to continue with long established veterans clearly past their best and thereby stifle his own chances of progression. Out with the old, in with the new - it's the natural order of things and a healthy way to refresh the club. He's had a great season Nogbad. Unlike David James, he will be ending his career on a high. I think he still offers the club something, but you've never rated him, so we best agree to disagree on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 He's had a great season Nogbad. Unlike David James, he will be ending his career on a high. I think he still offers the club something, but you've never rated him, so we best agree to disagree on that point. Oh, come on Robbo, 'great season'? - you're making yourself look ridiculous. He's actually only played 17 games out of 44, and though he's had several very good matches no one could deny his performances have undoubtedly varied in quality. You're wrong on another thing as well, It's complete nonsense that I've 'never rated him'. I've watched his City career from day 1 (unlike many commenting on this thread) and I very much respect his contribution to Bristol City. There have been season's when he has been a stalwart, but he is now very much at the veteran stage, down the pecking order, injury prone, diminished in pace, and it's simply time for the parting of the ways. I disagree that he offers enough to the club going forward to get yet another contract, but it seems you simply can't imagine Bristol City ever being without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Oh, come on Robbo, 'great season'? - you're making yourself look ridiculous. He's actually only played 17 games out of 44, and though he's had several very good matches no one could deny his performances have undoubtedly varied in quality. You're wrong on another thing as well, It's complete nonsense that I've 'never rated him'. I've watched his City career from day 1 (unlike many commenting on this thread) and I very much respect his contribution to Bristol City. There have been season's when he has been a stalwart, but he is now very much at the veteran stage, down the pecking order, injury prone, diminished in pace, and it's simply time for the parting of the ways. I disagree that he offers enough to the club going forward to get yet another contract, but it seems you simply can't imagine Bristol City ever being without him. Not true on so many counts I can't even be bothered to retort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Oh, come on Robbo, 'great season'? - you're making yourself look ridiculous. He's actually only played 17 games out of 44, and though he's had several very good matches no one could deny his performances have undoubtedly varied in quality. You're wrong on another thing as well, It's complete nonsense that I've 'never rated him'. I've watched his City career from day 1 (unlike many commenting on this thread) and I very much respect his contribution to Bristol City. There have been season's when he has been a stalwart, but he is now very much at the veteran stage, down the pecking order, injury prone, diminished in pace, and it's simply time for the parting of the ways. I disagree that he offers enough to the club going forward to get yet another contract, but it seems you simply can't imagine Bristol City ever being without him. Spot on, It use to be a classic carey moment highlight reel when he use to play right back always use to cost us goals with his comical defending, He's played 17 out of 46 games so far this season (including cup games) thats 36% of this season's game ho can you have a great season only playing a third of the seasons games is beyond me, two more starts then Wilson who's progress will be blocked if he stays, he shouldn't get a new contract because he won't play much next season we're meant to be reducing the wages bill not retaining players for the sake of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Not true on so many counts I can't even be bothered to retort. If you can't be bothered to retort that's fine, but I'm not aware of one thing I have written above that is 'not true'. Funny response from someone who has just wrongly accused me of 'never rating him'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Leaving aside the bickering, the trouble with this is that we approach it in isolation. The players we have under contract next season are all under 30 except for Stewart so I won't be surprised if Louis is offered another year with a very basic salary (for a footballer) with substantial incentives. Del's reasoning will be that we haven't replaced Louis yet, specifically in terms of leadership. Fontaine doesn't strike me as a leader - he seems quiet and understated a bit like Cole Skuse. If Louis plays 15 games next year then it will be worth it. His experience particularly in some of the away games has been vital. He may be slow, but he's been slow for some time so has gotten used to it. Del has managed to keep the careers of some older players going before so clearly values experience. He has picked the games Louis has played in well so has got the best out of him. He has played a role in dragging us out the s***e this season and can play a role next year. Hopefully we will sign some quality players but also improve the leadership of the side as it has seemed rudderless on too many occasions this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.