havanatopia Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Who cleared up the Tory mess in 97, who will have to do it again in a couple years time. They have compounded this total mess we are in. There running of our economy is like something out of monty python. The Torys are in it for themselves and no one else, it's there ideology to put the poorer down further and line there rich friends with money and power. If handing over the largest post war SURPLUS is handing over a 'tory mess' then I bow to your superior understanding of economics. And if selling 80% of our gold reserves at about their lowest price in 10 years, when 'crank shaft smile' brown was chancellor, is good stewardship then also, I bow to your superior understanding of economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Tory, Labour, Lib Dem... There is no difference anymore. Long gone are the days of party policies and ethics. Now they are all just as bad as each other, with their (see what I did there..?!) back handers, sleaze and general ineptitude with regards the well being of the country as a whole. Certainly a fair dose of truth in those remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Tory, Labour, Lib Dem... There is no difference anymore. Long gone are the days of party policies and ethics. Now they are all just as bad as each other, with their (see what I did there..?!) back handers, sleaze and general ineptitude with regards the well being of the country as a whole. Long gone? You'd be hard pushed to find a time when they existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Long gone? You'd be hard pushed to find a time when they existed. True! But at least in years gone by, you would vote Labour if you believed in one thing and Tory if you favoured another and the party lines were fairly clear. Now they are ALL simply a bunch of sleazy spin doctors who differ very little and share the same "whats best for me" attitude and **** the welfare of the country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 True! But at least in years gone by, you would vote Labour if you believed in one thing and Tory if you favoured another and the party lines were fairly clear. Now they are ALL simply a bunch of sleazy spin doctors who differ very little and share the same "whats best for me" attitude and **** the welfare of the country! Agreed. It was Tory if you wanted the country ruined by the upper classes and Labour if you wanted it ruined by the unions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Quite unbelievable! You would prefer that he didn't invest in City then??! Whilst you are right in saying that they have been his decisions (mainly) - how you can critise the man for investing 10's of millions into our football club..?!?! That has to be one of the most fcuked up posts i've ever read on here!! I've never critisisied him for investing. I have critisied him for they way he has bought debt on the club through bad choices. And you have backed that up with what you say in your 3rd paragraph! So it would seem you would think the same kind of thing as I do. I have never critisised lansdown for putting money in, and never asked for him to go. You made that opinion up after agreeing with what i said, then for some reason disagreeing while agreeing what I said. if you ask me that is fcuked up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I did not say EVERY public sector worker is less hard working than private. I did not even intimate that. Also, not asking for any sympathy on my 'lifestyle' choice either !! I wish they sold marmite here. Give me your address fella and I'll send you a pot! Call it a 'tax rebate' I had misread your post- you actually said on average self employed people work harder than those in the public sector. I'd also agree that and that self employed people work harder than the average private sector employee. You have no back up, no 'paid leave' or flexitime. You take a day off it might cost you money. But you chose to go down that road and good luck to you. I won't be ashamed of being a public servant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I assume you both invest a large % of your wages into the club as well every season without getting a return, yes? Idiots. I have invested a fair chunk over my life in season tickets and merchendise. When you factor in the Billion or there abouts Steve is worth, and the millions he has put in, comapred to the **** all I am worth and the amount I have put in, as a percentage of income, i would suggest I am close to being on par with him lets remember he only became a city Supporter not so long ago, originally Supporting rovers until his son decided he wanted to go to the gate. in terms of years supporting, years of putting money into the club, I out strip Steve by a long shot. In terms of the amount I put in, no where near. but when you consider 1 billion is 1000 million and he has put in what? 30-50 million it aint that much (although I would love that. no for instants a averge joe earns say 20k a season ticket is £400 that is 1/50th of a years salary i can't even workout what 50 million is of 1 Billion, but rest assured it is a hell of of a lot less in terms of a percentage than I fork out every year! and if you want to take it further down to losses of 12 million a year, well that is worse get a grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 So money buying AV is nothing to do with city?! Well maybe not directly on the Bank Balance of bristol City holdings. But is a huge part of Steve's scheme to make city run on it's own two feet! With out it, well I will let you think where we go without it. So yes having a great vision to do it, but balls it up alnong the way, my not taking the right advice. It is all linked, and you cannot deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I've never critisisied him for investing. I have critisied him for they way he has bought debt on the club through bad choices. And you have backed that up with what you say in your 3rd paragraph! So it would seem you would think the same kind of thing as I do. I have never critisised lansdown for putting money in, and never asked for him to go. You made that opinion up after agreeing with what i said, then for some reason disagreeing while agreeing what I said. if you ask me that is fcuked up He covers that debt himself! Without which, we would be highly unlikely to survive in the NPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 +1 So he's supposed to just bung his hard earned cash into the huge black hole that is BCFC? I think not, and frankly we should be grateful he puts in anything at all. Increase ticket prices, demand no debt for clubs let everyone actually pay for whats on offer that year. See crowds fall, clubs fail and then and only then we might get back to seeing players paid a fair amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 He covers that debt himself! Without which, we would be highly unlikely to survive in the NPC. I know, but it is debt incurred through his choice as it his his money. So bad choices from him ave transpired to increase his own debt. i cannot critisie the bloke for doing it, I think he maybe some sort of Sado Masochist when it comes to money, has it looks like he never learns from mistakes i.e. judge me on Tinnion, then goes and does the same thing with Millen, even though Millen was not good enough for the job or ready for the job only 4 months beforehand. All very odd, I think he makes some really bad judgment calls and seems to make the same mistakes. I think the best thing he did was take a step back, and hopefully has people there now who a slightly better decision makers when it comes to running a football club, whi ever they maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Who cleared up the Tory mess in 97, who will have to do it again in a couple years time. They have compounded this total mess we are in. There running of our economy is like something out of monty python. The Torys are in it for themselves and no one else, it's there ideology to put the poorer down further and line there rich friends with money and power. The Torys laid the groundwork for the next 10 years of economic success, thats why Labour spent a fortune on that election knowing that whoever won it could take credit for the next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I have invested a fair chunk over my life in season tickets and merchendise. When you factor in the Billion or there abouts Steve is worth, and the millions he has put in, comapred to the **** all I am worth and the amount I have put in, as a percentage of income, i would suggest I am close to being on par with him lets remember he only became a city Supporter not so long ago, originally Supporting rovers until his son decided he wanted to go to the gate. in terms of years supporting, years of putting money into the club, I out strip Steve by a long shot. In terms of the amount I put in, no where near. but when you consider 1 billion is 1000 million and he has put in what? 30-50 million it aint that much (although I would love that. no for instants a averge joe earns say 20k a season ticket is £400 that is 1/50th of a years salary i can't even workout what 50 million is of 1 Billion, but rest assured it is a hell of of a lot less in terms of a percentage than I fork out every year! and if you want to take it further down to losses of 12 million a year, well that is worse get a grip You are not even fit to wipe his ass No lansdown no bristol city No lansdown no championship football no lansdown no new players no lansdown no mcinnes no lansdown no baldock no lansdown no davis no lansdown no adomah no lansdown no youth acadmeny your so ******* ungreatful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 You are not even fit to wipe his ass No lansdown no bristol city No lansdown no championship football no lansdown no new players no lansdown no mcinnes no lansdown no baldock no lansdown no davis no lansdown no adomah no lansdown no youth acadmeny your so ******* ungreatful Agree entirely, i am amazed that anyone can criticize SL in the same way anyone gave Johnson any stick who gave us more excitement than anyone since the Dicks era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Give me your address fella and I'll send you a pot! Call it a 'tax rebate' I had misread your post- you actually said on average self employed people work harder than those in the public sector. I'd also agree that and that self employed people work harder than the average private sector employee. You have no back up, no 'paid leave' or flexitime. You take a day off it might cost you money. But you chose to go down that road and good luck to you. I won't be ashamed of being a public servant Oh for paid leave!!!!... they woz the dayz!!! Just send the marmite to: The Self Employed Mug, C/o Cuba Post, La Habana, Cuba. - that should reach me ok!!! Much appreciated. p.s. best send the largest one and in plastic, not those old fangled glass ones or it might break en route. I think there is VAT on the largest plastic one unlike the small glass ones; the former is considered a luxury! So you can also claim the vat back as well matey. every tiny amount helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_bristol Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I have invested a fair chunk over my life in season tickets and merchendise. When you factor in the Billion or there abouts Steve is worth, and the millions he has put in, comapred to the **** all I am worth and the amount I have put in, as a percentage of income, i would suggest I am close to being on par with him lets remember he only became a city Supporter not so long ago, originally Supporting rovers until his son decided he wanted to go to the gate. in terms of years supporting, years of putting money into the club, I out strip Steve by a long shot. In terms of the amount I put in, no where near. but when you consider 1 billion is 1000 million and he has put in what? 30-50 million it aint that much (although I would love that. no for instants a averge joe earns say 20k a season ticket is £400 that is 1/50th of a years salary i can't even workout what 50 million is of 1 Billion, but rest assured it is a hell of of a lot less in terms of a percentage than I fork out every year! and if you want to take it further down to losses of 12 million a year, well that is worse get a grip On that basis (you were nearly there working it out by the way) if SL has invested 50 million of the 1000 million (1bn) he is worth then he's invested a fifth of what he's earnt, 10 times more than average Joe. The other thing I have issue with is when and where did Lansdown ever say he was a Rovers fan originally. I've heard (him say) that he went to Rovers before he went to a city game but I know a few city fans who have gone/were taken to the dark side first then saw the light - he might have been taken as a guest, where did you find that out about his son wanting to watch city? Furthermore, if I told my old man that I wanted to support Rovers and I want you to put all your money into them as well, he'd have put me up for adoption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Horsman Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 If handing over the largest post war SURPLUS is handing over a 'tory mess' then I bow to your superior understanding of economics. And if selling 80% of our gold reserves at about their lowest price in 10 years, when 'crank shaft smile' brown was chancellor, is good stewardship then also, I bow to your superior understanding of economics. And I suppose you applauded the selling off of nearly all of the country's assets to cronies under Thatcher as the true an manifestation of free market economics??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 And I suppose you applauded the selling off of nearly all of the country's assets to cronies under Thatcher as the true an manifestation of free market economics??! Your point being? My answer is that I applauded the principle and execution on some but not all; the railways being a notable exception although like all others it was hemorhraging cash. Fact remains that most are now sustainable whereas before they were not and yes, apologies, that means making a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Your point being? My answer is that I applauded the principle and execution on some but not all; the railways being a notable exception although like all others it was hemorhraging cash. Fact remains that most are now sustainable whereas before they were not and yes, apologies, that means making a profit. What they have become are cash cows for the few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 What they have become are cash cows for the few. This is why wealth should be taxed and not income. Income tax was introduced in 1799 to try and raise £10m to ..... (You guessed it) pay for weapons. These weapons were used to fight the Napoleonic wars - those weapons must have cost a fortune if were still paying for them today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 What they have become are cash cows for the few. As opposed to drains on the state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 And I suppose you applauded the selling off of nearly all of the country's assets to cronies under Thatcher as the true an manifestation of free market economics??! Its not an asset if its costing more money than its making. There is no free market economics in this country Labour have ensured everything must be proped up and no one is aloud to fail, of course all with Tax payer money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 This is why wealth should be taxed and not income. Income tax was introduced in 1799 to try and raise £10m to ..... (You guessed it) pay for weapons. These weapons were used to fight the Napoleonic wars - those weapons must have cost a fortune if were still paying for them today In Switzerland you hardly pay any income tax and all tax is applied through their equivalent of VAT. Therefore consumption is taxed. It's actually very fair on the surface until you consider how much it would cost for an unemployed single mother to feed herself and her child, though perhaps that's another debate. They also have a system where after (I believe) 3 years of tax contribution, if you're made redundant, the state pay you the equivalent of your last wage for something like 6 months. The system (and indeed the whole country) doesn't appeal to my lefty sensibilities, but you have to admit there is a certain fairness in it. Shame about all their tax 'loopholes' really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 As opposed to drains on the state? Well they are so much better now aren't they,I mean all those lower prices and better service we were promised,not.what was needed was investment,which lab and con failed to do,more so the tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberts Dancing Boots Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 First ever post after years and years of lurking... Sorry but i just can not agree with this tory love in , if the problem of a non profitbale public service i.e trains, BT etc.. can be solved through the simple action of 'selling it to someone else who can turn a profit out of it, because we cant' , then surely the tories should hang their heads in shame over this. No excuses over the privatisation of much of this country other than 'we couldnt run it properly' !! it was supposedly owned by the people , for the people , and sold off for the few.. becuase 1 - people with money would be able to get even more money or 2 - they couldnt run it properly..either way its disgraceful More recently i see George Osbourne, only a few days ago, has stated that they are now looking at building infastructure to kickstart the economy , after a couple of years of critiscising the labour govt for this exact plan.. all we ever heard from the tories was that this was a bad idea, and the drastic cuts were harsh but necessary and the only way to conquer our problems.. (remindful of the fact the these cuts are far more harsh on those at the lower end of the socio-economic scale than they are 95% of tory supporters) anyways , back to the lansdown thing, whilst i am certainly not a disliker of SL and appreciate hugely that he has chosen to bankroll this club for so long, i do also understand the sentiment of those who are beginning to doubt his real passion for the club... the examples spoken about above show lansdown as having a fortune of £1 billion , £50 million of which he has spent on city.. 5% joe bloggs makes £20k a year and spends £400 on a season ticket, 2% of income, add into this £5 per home game on food/beer/programme etc..(which is generous given the astronomical pricing of some things at the gate) this brings the figure up to 2.5% not inlcusive of a shirt or sms subscription or any other money spinner the supporter may choose to partake in.. When this is put into perspective, i personally feel that joe bloggs gives more than his fair share, considering that he has the constant worry of :- next weeks shopping, can i afford to take the kids away this for a few days this year, pray council tax doesnt go up too much and prays even more something like the car doesnt break down or washing machine packs up where as Mr Lansdown's are probably much more along the lines of:- do they sell foie gras in jersey, which caribbean island will we be spending our summer on this year love, Hmmm how can i get out of paying tax to the government of the country in which i built my success and shall i go for the black or beige leather in the Rolls Royce.. Now i see the point of those criticising, they are not saying they he doesnt do enough and we would be better off without him , i think they are just saying that if they had the disposable income levels of SL then they would do more... This is why they feel that they are more passionate about the club.. simples.. For those that say, well what about the losses each year etc.. correct me if im wrong, but as i understand it these are covered by interets free loans to the club from SL which can be called in at any time.. same as Abramohvich at Chelsea, he could walk tommorrow and ask for all his money back.. Pretty much the end of chelsea, however i think ours are just about manageable at their current state.. So , what if Lansdown did walk... well , either his shoes would be filled by another local business man with a liking for the club, a foreign owner with stars of the prem in his eyes and an eye for profit , or perhaps just perhaps we would be left to our own devices and we'd find out where we really stand in the football ladder. Self-suffiency...If it was solely on the backs of our supporters to finance this club through ticket sales , shirts etc.. then we really would see just how big a club we are, and how many Bristolians really are passionate enough about this club to get right behind it and awake the so called sleeping giant. Newcastle, Man city, Leeds, Sheff Weds etc..we are not , we win we turn up, we lose we dont is pretty much what it boils down too.. So overall.. does lansdown do a good job , IMO yes but like everyone else in the world has made some mistakes Could he do more , undoubtedly yes but whilst he continues to be our main financier it is hard to criticise this.. Would it be the end of the world without him.. No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 In Switzerland you hardly pay any income tax and all tax is applied through their equivalent of VAT. Therefore consumption is taxed. It's actually very fair on the surface until you consider how much it would cost for an unemployed single mother to feed herself and her child, though perhaps that's another debate. They also have a system where after (I believe) 3 years of tax contribution, if you're made redundant, the state pay you the equivalent of your last wage for something like 6 months. The system (and indeed the whole country) doesn't appeal to my lefty sensibilities, but you have to admit there is a certain fairness in it. Shame about all their tax 'loopholes' really... Do they tax food in switzerland then? In the EU food is largely zero rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I have invested a fair chunk over my life in season tickets and merchendise. When you factor in the Billion or there abouts Steve is worth, and the millions he has put in, comapred to the **** all I am worth and the amount I have put in, as a percentage of income, i would suggest I am close to being on par with him lets remember he only became a city Supporter not so long ago, originally Supporting rovers until his son decided he wanted to go to the gate. in terms of years supporting, years of putting money into the club, I out strip Steve by a long shot. In terms of the amount I put in, no where near. but when you consider 1 billion is 1000 million and he has put in what? 30-50 million it aint that much (although I would love that. no for instants a averge joe earns say 20k a season ticket is £400 that is 1/50th of a years salary i can't even workout what 50 million is of 1 Billion, but rest assured it is a hell of of a lot less in terms of a percentage than I fork out every year! and if you want to take it further down to losses of 12 million a year, well that is worse get a grip There is so much wrong with your post. 50 million is 5% of 1 billion. £400 is 1/500th or 0.2% of £20k, not 1/50th. And you're comparing an annual salary with a largely paper net worth anyway. You as an individual have contributed nowhere near as much as SL to BCFC, whether you measure it proportionally or not, so stop kidding yourself. SL was never a rovers fan either. He went to a few games, wasn't into football much until Jon was. You are not even fit to wipe his ass No lansdown no bristol city No lansdown no championship football no lansdown no new players no lansdown no mcinnes no lansdown no baldock no lansdown no davis no lansdown no adomah no lansdown no youth acadmeny your so ******* ungreatful And now we have the other end of the spectrum. You are also wrong on every count. There was a BCFC before Lansdown and there'll be one afterwards. The club generates 8 figures of revenue every year, SL chooses to overspend massively and fund that overspending. The overspending isn't necessary. Many other clubs manage to have all of the things you list spending less than half of what we do. The truth is of course in between the two foaming at the mouth extremes. SL has invested in the club and should be thanked for it, he's done many good things. He has also made a number of mistakes and admitted as much himself. Whilst City fans should be grateful for his investment of time and money, they should not ever think that there would be no club without him or that he's beyond scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Do they tax food in switzerland then? In the EU food is largely zero rated. It's either taxed or very expensive! But Switzerland isn't in the EU so your zero rated thing may still stand true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Don't need to give you a master plan, he has alluded to his many mistakes, many times, How much do you reckon he has paid in terms of poor managerial appointments and the signings that go with them? How much has he wasted buying AV, and not doing his homework properly. Maybe now he has taken a back seat, the monatary control may be a little better. yes as you rightly say we may be in Div 1/2, but not losing the amount we have done, and that is squarely down to poor decision making. Football is an expensive game. Ensure you have the proper guy ion charge of the team in place, and it may get a little less expensive. Sorry but this debt has come when lansdown has been running things. We were running a pretty tight ship beforehand. Personally all this debt, for 1 promotion, some pretty average players, and lets be honest garbage football, including the promotion season... Well, lets just say I am glad he is able to flitter his money away on it. if we had got promotion in our first season up, we may not be having this conversation. What we have done is stagnate, and go backwards, while employing poor managers, chosen by lansdown, who has then backed those poor manger with poor signings. I am sure if he Ran his original business like that, Hargreaves would have booted him out if he got the chance. Just as well he is good with finances in the workld away from football. The last few seasons he has banged on about the club standing on its own two feet.... Well that is not going to happen after lansdown threw loads of money at it, he chose to ladel the club with debt to him. Maybe he should have been concentrating on letting the club run on its own two feet when the debt was managable. i'm sorry you cannot be so flighty it seems lansdown has gone with one football model, got half way through accomplishing it, then backtracked as he realised he was pushing his own hard earned money up useless managers arses. Too late lansdown, you policy has ensure the horse has well and truely Bolted. And now you hopes and drerams rest on AV, which he also buggered up by not fencing off when he bought it. So many poor poor decisions, but he is still the messiah! Once I saw the above (in bold), I knew it wasn't worth reading your post. What chariman of any football club has not made any mistakes or made poor decisions. Lansdown was a top chairman and is still a top bloke for what he has done and is still doing for our club. Anyone who thinks otherwise can go support the gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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