Guest Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Yes it was then the new stadium plans came about so it did not progress further. Mock up pictures back then. View of the houses and EE The original permissions for new stands were EE 3 storey stand with 5000 seats, and Williams stand 11543. Added to the Dolman 6195 and Atyeo 4249 would give a capacity of 27K. All on the existing footprint. Can anyone seriously see us with regular gates over 25K anytime soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 The original permissions for new stands were EE 3 storey stand with 5000 seats, and Williams stand 11543. Added to the Dolman 6195 and Atyeo 4249 would give a capacity of 27K. All on the existing footprint. Can anyone seriously see us with regular gates over 25K anytime soon? No based on just football crowds in the current climate. Pretty much why a new stadium was planned (more space) to add extra facilities so there was possible income 24/7 and the size of a match day gate is not totally relied on, how this can be done at ashton gate in any upgrade would remain to be seen depending on space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Many posters on here seem to have missed the point ( no.4) that none of the mayoral candidates would have any say over AV whatsoever. Ferguson's not against the stadium, he's against a monstrous new Sainsbury's that many more of us would object to were it not facilitating City's move. The point is if it comes to plan B - and SL has always stated that redevelopment of AG was a viable option and WOULD happen if AV falls through - would Ferguson then use his mayoral powers where possible (LIverpool style) to help City to expand AG, and get on with it quickly? Sounds to me from the above like he would. I notice point 4 and he's wrong, because a new inspector report will be made and then the council have agreed it will follow the inspectors recommendation . So the council have made a political decision and so when Ross Crail finally reports back it may well be the Mayors decision and not the council , it won't be Ross Crail she can only recommend what should happen . The JR was brought against the council as to wether the decision was legal this review never took place. We have planning premission and the fact remain it will be up to the democratic leaders of this City to make this decision . George Ferguson is being very disingenuous if he says otherwise . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargent Pepper Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 The original permissions for new stands were EE 3 storey stand with 5000 seats, and Williams stand 11543. Added to the Dolman 6195 and Atyeo 4249 would give a capacity of 27K. All on the existing footprint. Can anyone seriously see us with regular gates over 25K anytime soon? Certainlly that mock up looks decent. I guess the walkway behind the EE could be under the stand like there is a St James and Old Trafford, although if planning permission is granted this shouldnt be a problem. The Dolman is plenty big enough but lacks facillities and exits. For me if we are gonna rebuild the Williams lets make the most of the space we have and no neighbours to complain and build BIG perhaps extended the 11k projected capacity to 15000. Of course, i still dont see any of these plans fessable with no major cash injection from Sainsburys. What intrigues me from GF statement above is point 6: 6. Plan B is to build a new 30,000 seat stadium at Ashton Gate, keeping it at its historic home, which has been facilitated by SL buying the Hirerite site. This can be done without losing a season's play. Could he be privy to our plan B or is he just guessing? What good does owning Hirerite offer, the length of it ends just as the Williams stand begins. Unless there is an ambitious/crazy plan to knock it down and use it as parking while moving the pitch over and rebuilding each stand over the course of years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Interesting sl has actually bought the hirerite site then. I thought that was just rumour. Must have plan b as the new stadium is looking more and more unlikely. My understanding is that SL bought Hirerite in order to enable the Sainsbury's application to overcome a hurdle put up by planners before the planning hearing. Something to do with access. Sorry to be so vague but only regurgitating something I heard over a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'd much rather stay at AG with German style safe standing. (A proper inquest into Hillsbrough might help safe standing happen). Bristol mayoral election (which I didn't want either) is much more important than City. The wrong mayor can do more damage than a relegation. GF strikes me as someone that has contributed positively to the redevelopment of Bristol and South Bristol especially. He's actually made things happen as opposed to others who are all mouth and no, er, trousers. I'd prefer him to any party political lackey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 If the council and Lansdown thought about it a bit more, they could have relocated the inustrial units onto ashton vale, freeing up the land to be built on for the new stadium, money on the ashton gate sale could have gone towards it. I know it would have cost more in the long run but it would have been worth it with all the hastle going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Certainlly that mock up looks decent. I guess the walkway behind the EE could be under the stand like there is a St James and Old Trafford, although if planning permission is granted this shouldnt be a problem. The Dolman is plenty big enough but lacks facillities and exits. For me if we are gonna rebuild the Williams lets make the most of the space we have and no neighbours to complain and build BIG perhaps extended the 11k projected capacity to 15000. Of course, i still dont see any of these plans fessable with no major cash injection from Sainsburys. What intrigues me from GF statement above is point 6: 6. Plan B is to build a new 30,000 seat stadium at Ashton Gate, keeping it at its historic home, which has been facilitated by SL buying the Hirerite site. This can be done without losing a season's play. Could he be privy to our plan B or is he just guessing? What good does owning Hirerite offer, the length of it ends just as the Williams stand begins. Unless there is an ambitious/crazy plan to knock it down and use it as parking while moving the pitch over and rebuilding each stand over the course of years? He betrays the fact that he's not really a fan with that comment. Would any City fan you know use the phrase 'a season's play'. It's the sort of thing politicians pretending to be football fans have done for years. Oh wait. That's exactly what he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 loose lips sinks ships..............Shhhhhhhhhh...this is an open forum, dont trust the bastards!!!! shhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 He betrays the fact that he's not really a fan with that comment. Would any City fan you know use the phrase 'a season's play'. It's the sort of thing politicians pretending to be football fans have done for years. Oh wait. That's exactly what he is. Can't see how the phrase has anything to to do with being a politician or 'pretending' to be a football fan. 'Without losing a season's play' is a perfectly reasonable term, i.e., in cricket, "A day's play has been lost to the rain.' He could have said, 'The ground can be redeveloped without the club ever having to seek temporary accommodation elsewhere, and City could continue to play there throughout' or suchlike, but it would be unnecessarily long winded and unless you are actively seeking to find fault the way he phrased it would be immediately understandable to most without any suspicious connotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Yes it was then the new stadium plans came about so it did not progress further. Mock up pictures back then. http://members.freez...neweastend.html View of the houses and EE Why does the new East End finish only a couple of yards past the side of the pitch on both sides? Compare that with the aeriel view of the present East End which extends far further in both directions and it's clear the capacity could be much higher were it extended to more normal proportions. If you then fill in further join up with the Dolman and the New Williams you must be talking in terms of at least 1,000 more on each end at a very conservative estimate. Why would they possibly contemplate a New East End being considerably shorter than the present one when estimating future capacity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcityman Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Think it was just a cut and paste mock up, isn't it one of Barnsleys' stands superimposed after the we'd locks been removed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Yes it was then the new stadium plans came about so it did not progress further. Mock up pictures back then. http://members.freez...neweastend.html View of the houses and EE I remember these plans, definately a single tier structure, the roof does not look very well designed, looks like the atyeo so the sound would just go out. Hopefully if we have to do this the club will do a revamp and more modern stand designs taking accoustics into account. Like people have said if we do have to go down that route it has been proven it can be done reletively affectively without effecting capacity for too long at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knowle Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Why does the new East End finish only a couple of yards past the side of the pitch on both sides? Compare that with the aeriel view of the present East End which extends far further in both directions and it's clear the capacity could be much higher were it extended to more normal proportions. If you then fill in further join up with the Dolman and the New Williams you must be talking in terms of at least 1,000 more on each end at a very conservative estimate. Why would they possibly contemplate a New East End being considerably shorter than the present one when estimating future capacity? It was going to have 5200 seats which is less than the EE now although lots are not useable now for various reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 I for one have never really looked at the "re-vamp" plans fot the gate, but going on what i have seen posted it does look do-able, but with one downer.... where does the finance come from ? consider no sale...no cash from sainsbury's..downturn in attendancies due to work being carried out, huge outlay of funds to buy up stragetic points on the site, time limitations, traffic management ( the councill will be on this like a flock of seagulls on a thrown away cod lot ).....sorry guy's this is a no brainer unless we move away for 2 years, and oh and who's gonna pay for it all SL ? i wish !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 It was going to have 5200 seats which is less than the EE now although lots are not useable now for various reasons. How could it be less capacity when it was going to be much taller? I always thought they were aiming for 7k. They'd surely never build a stand as shown, finishing just past the pitch sidelines. Even if the corners were not joined up ( immediately) with adjacent stands either side you could still angle the new EE end towards the corners and increase initial capacity quite copnsiderably straight away. As i said, to build one so much shorter than the present EE wouldn't make any sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knowle Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 How could it be less capacity when it was going to be much taller? I always thought they were aiming for 7k. They'd surely never build a stand as shown, finishing just past the pitch sidelines. Even if the corners were not joined up ( immediately) with adjacent stands either side you could still angle the new EE end towards the corners and increase initial capacity quite copnsiderably straight away. As i said, to build one so much shorter than the present EE wouldn't make any sense at all. Cant answer the ??'s but 5200 seats was the capacity. Google bristol city new wedlocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 I for one have never really looked at the "re-vamp" plans fot the gate, but going on what i have seen posted it does look do-able, but with one downer.... where does the finance come from ? consider no sale...no cash from sainsbury's..downturn in attendancies due to work being carried out, huge outlay of funds to buy up stragetic points on the site, time limitations, traffic management ( the councill will be on this like a flock of seagulls on a thrown away cod lot ).....sorry guy's this is a no brainer unless we move away for 2 years, and oh and who's gonna pay for it all SL ? i wish !!!!!! It is doable, and viable, or at least it was. We got planning permission for the Wedlock's and a huge new Williams stand years ago and fans were sent detailed plans and sketches of how it would look in the 'Gatepost'. Corporate boxes, conference halls, the lot. Very impressive it looked too, and City were planning to go ahead without any land sales, or supermarket money, before AV cropped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 loose lips sinks ships..............Shhhhhhhhhh...this is an open forum, dont trust the bastards!!!! shhhhh Exactly. Those opposed to Sainsbury's are backing the TVG lot, no new stadium = no Sainsbury's, so let's keep things in house and remember the things they've taken from this site and used against us and the club. George Fergusson is and always will be devisive, this time when suggesting that the Hireite site could be used to extend AG, it could not, unless we could have an L shaped stadium/pitch. He's come up with this so as not to alienate himself from possible votes from city fans, he is an hypocrite. He claims to support local shops, yet runs a market in direct competition, allows a bakery from which he gets rent to compete with already established local bakers, opens a theatre in the suburbs but states that places of entertainment should be accessable to all and central, opposes an arena at AV while promoting one at Temple Meads, which surprise surprise he is part of the consortium promoting it and opens a giant bar which hastens the closing of local traditional boozers. Do you really think SL will have given him any info about his plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Oh Yes, and planning permision has already ceased on any existing redevelopment plans for AG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Cant answer the ??'s but 5200 seats was the capacity. Google bristol city new wedlocks. I have, and you're right. Are you sure there wasn't a later, second plan? Doesn't make any sense because Sexton is quoted there as saying it would be 'even taller than the Dolman'. If it was taller than the Dolman and on the same footprint as the present EE you'd surely be looking at 7-8k, especially if the ill planned corporate facilities/executive boxes were scrapped and moved in to the far more appropriate New Williams. Mind you the New Williams was going to be 'more than 13k', so even if the new EE was less than 6k you'd still be looking at the new capacity being easily 30k+ with the corners filled in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Oh Yes, and planning permision has already ceased on any existing redevelopment plans for AG. Really? The club kept quiet about that - when exactly did planning permission expire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Can't see how the phrase has anything to to do with being a politician or 'pretending' to be a football fan. 'Without losing a season's play' is a perfectly reasonable term, i.e., in cricket, "A day's play has been lost to the rain.' He could have said, 'The ground can be redeveloped without the club ever having to seek temporary accommodation elsewhere, and City could continue to play there throughout' or suchlike, but it would be unnecessarily long winded and unless you are actively seeking to find fault the way he phrased it would be immediately understandable to most without any suspicious connotations. But I don't think it is inherently suspicious. He's a politician just trying to curry favour with football fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 Exactly. Those opposed to Sainsbury's are backing the TVG lot, no new stadium = no Sainsbury's, so let's keep things in house and remember the things they've taken from this site and used against us and the club. George Fergusson is and always will be devisive, this time when suggesting that the Hireite site could be used to extend AG, it could not, unless we could have an L shaped stadium/pitch. He's come up with this so as not to alienate himself from possible votes from city fans, he is an hypocrite. He claims to support local shops, yet runs a market in direct competition, allows a bakery from which he gets rent to compete with already established local bakers, opens a theatre in the suburbs but states that places of entertainment should be accessable to all and central, opposes an arena at AV while promoting one at Temple Meads, which surprise surprise he is part of the consortium promoting it and opens a giant bar which hastens the closing of local traditional boozers. Do you really think SL will have given him any info about his plans? The Ship and Castle burnt down, the Wedlocks was basically shut by its owners charging a unrealistic rent. East and West street where pubs have shut attracts a different demographic drinker. The giant bar appears to have hastened an increase in premises serving alcohol in North street. A theatre in the suburbs! Another venue for Bristol makes art more accessible, not less, particularly if you live locally. Bakers, markets, entertainment, the area is thriving. Temple Meads is the best site for an arena next to an "accessible" major transport hub I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 I for one have never really looked at the "re-vamp" plans fot the gate, but going on what i have seen posted it does look do-able, but with one downer.... where does the finance come from ? consider no sale...no cash from sainsbury's..downturn in attendancies due to work being carried out, huge outlay of funds to buy up stragetic points on the site, time limitations, traffic management ( the councill will be on this like a flock of seagulls on a thrown away cod lot ).....sorry guy's this is a no brainer unless we move away for 2 years, and oh and who's gonna pay for it all SL ? i wish !!!!!! The finance comes from the same place, SL's wallet. The cost of AV was reportedly going to be in the region of £90m. Selling AG was never going to pay for all that needed to be done. Wolves have managed a very succesful update to Molineux. I remember going there when they were turning the pitch around and you were practically looking at 30 yds of empty space from the terrace. It can be done simply, it's just not the preferred option. EE and Williams did have plans in the past to be almost one continuous stand with the corners filled in, also the Williams stand was also sketched up into being, I think, a massive 3 tier stand. If for example you made the Williams footprint stretch over the car park with a big open walkthrough, you could have a massive area to do all sorts with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 EDIT: I think on reflection it was a big 2 tier stand much like the size of Leicester City's filbert street. I'm sure the club released an architects sketch of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 But I don't think it is inherently suspicious. He's a politician just trying to curry favour with football fans You must think it's suspicious because you're not taking him at his word. He's said he's a Bristol CIty supporter, he's even sponsored the scoreboard for years, yet you're maintaining it's all a pretence to 'curry favour'. What he's actually trying to do is dispel the fallacy that he is against a new stadium - when he's actually said he isn't - just because he isn't in favour of a monstrous new Sainsbury's at AG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 The finance comes from the same place, SL's wallet. The cost of AV was reportedly going to be in the region of £90m. Selling AG was never going to pay for all that needed to be done. Wolves have managed a very succesful update to Molineux. I remember going there when they were turning the pitch around and you were practically looking at 30 yds of empty space from the terrace. It can be done simply, it's just not the preferred option. EE and Williams did have plans in the past to be almost one continuous stand with the corners filled in, also the Williams stand was also sketched up into being, I think, a massive 3 tier stand. If for example you made the Williams footprint stretch over the car park with a big open walkthrough, you could have a massive area to do all sorts with. Thanks for that, but without SL it aint gonna happen which is really my main concern, as a footy club without the afore mentioned is it not viable, i for one think it's a cracking idea to re-do AG but it would need massive funds, and without the promised kick backs from utilising a purporpose built stadium with built in 7 day a week usage whilst bringing in corporate ( hate that word but gotta live with it ) backing i really feel that ashton gate has fulfilled it's potential,.....that said Mr lansdown aint no mug...steve, wots next ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 You must think it's suspicious because you're not taking him at his word. He's said he's a Bristol CIty supporter, he's even sponsored the scoreboard for years, yet you're maintaining it's all a pretence to 'curry favour'. What he's actually trying to do is dispel the fallacy that he is against a new stadium - when he's actually said he isn't - just because he isn't in favour of a monstrous new Sainsbury's at AG. I've got to say Noggers, you're bloody hilarious to read. Very Naive to think that GF isn't going through with this embarrassing canvassing for any other reason than to 'curry favour' with a large section of the Bristol electorate who do not like him. It's almost as naive to think that as it is to think your defence of George is based on anything other than your desire to see Bristol City stay at Ashton Gate. Had George come out claiming he was entirely in favour of both the new stadium and the redevelopment of Ashton Gate into an apparently 'monstrous' (more exaggeratory poppy-cock) Sainsbury's then you would never have even posted on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 This is what was sent out at the time. (funny really as the open the old eastend by the fans started in 2006 ready for 2007) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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