I Miss This Guy So Much....

[spudski]

Exactly, plus the fact Johnny Giles was an inch away from getting the job as manager and at the last second Clough got it.

Thought so...

I remember going to a Gentlemans evening that had Johnny Giles as an after dinner speaker... it was most enlightening, and a great look back at that time when clough was managing.

I embarrassed myself by asking about how good Duncan Mckenzie was... it was apparant Giles thought he was a cock, but answered very diplomatically.

[Lew-T]

Apparenty the Clough family were so offended by the whole concept of a film about their husband/father that they refused to have anything to do with it and have refused to see it.

Still a good watch though. It shows what a hard time he had at Leeds and the relationship between him and Revie.

Kotsy, they hated eachothers guts. Clough continuously slated Revie's tactics and said they played the game the wrong way. Didn't like eachother in football and didn't in person! They were always out to get at eachother.

[Cambridge Batch Red]

Bit weird when he kissed joe Jordan though

[Lita For Congo]

Mourinho maybe a good manager but imho, he has no class whatsoever.

Arsene Wenger on the other hand does imho.

Wenger has class?! Heard it all now! The guy will slag anyone off who doesnt play football 'his' way and when it goes wrong for him, he hasnt seen a thing. The bloke is a joke and had been found right out in the last couple of years.

[exiledinwatford]

Not so much Pete Tong, as Johnny Walker...

Years ago I went on a golfing trip and played with his old bank manager from his Derby days. He used to visit the club to meet with Clough and Taylor to do a financial review. He used to last about 15 minutes before Clough would signal to Taylor and a bottle of scotch would appear. When that was finished another would appear - after two he left them to it and went home to recover for a couple of days to try and figure out what the hell they discussed!

If I could have a drinking session with anyone past or present Cloughie would be right up there - what a character.

[123456789000]

Hm I still disagree. You don't have to like someone to respect them. I know full well that Clough didn't like Revie's style or the man himself, but he did respect what he had achieved. If you listen to the interview where they go head to head clough even says that its almost impossible to replace Revie at leeds. Another example is that most people on here and infact football in general dislike SAF, but all of us can respect that he is a great manager.

[spudski]

Wenger has class?! Heard it all now! The guy will slag anyone off who doesnt play football 'his' way and when it goes wrong for him, he hasnt seen a thing. The bloke is a joke and had been found right out in the last couple of years.

The bloke is a joke?

Seriously?

You won't find anyone in football slagging Wenger off. They all have total respect for Wenger.

Whether you agree with what he say's is another thing.

But the way he conducts himself is admireable in my book.

But if that's how you feel... that's your perrogative.

[Jordan Tansley]

The bloke is a joke?

Seriously?

You won't find anyone in football slagging Wenger off. They all have total respect for Wenger.

Whether you agree with what he say's is another thing.

But the way he conducts himself is admireable in my book.

But if that's how you feel... that's your perrogative.

Gotta disagree with you too Spud, Wenger is a sour, sore loser. He's a whinger, a moaner and as bad as anyone for slagging off referees.

And I'd bet you Kenny Dalglish would have a bad word to say abou him after the incident between them.

Wenger is a clown, decent manager, but as a person (from the tv etc) he's a clown.

[WellRedPhil]

Gotta disagree with you too Spud, Wenger is a sour, sore loser. He's a whinger, a moaner and as bad as anyone for slagging off referees.

And I'd bet you Kenny Dalglish would have a bad word to say abou him after the incident between them.

Wenger is a clown, decent manager, but as a person (from the tv etc) he's a clown.

Completely disagree with this, Dalglish on the other hand, he's pretty much the definition of bitter in post-match interviews. Wenger can come across as irritable on occassion but he is often dignified and believes in playing football in an exciting manner and building teams rather than simply buying them. Hardly traits to warrant unliking. When you consider the amount of shit he gets from the press I'd suggest he's not actually very bitter at all.

[Jordan Tansley]

Completely disagree with this, Dalglish on the other hand, he's pretty much the definition of bitter in post-match interviews. Wenger can come across as irritable on occassion but he is often dignified and believes in playing football in an exciting manner and building teams rather than simply buying them. Hardly traits to warrant unliking. When you consider the amount of shit he gets from the press I'd suggest he's not actually very bitter at all.

Well he's proving himself to not be very good at building teams. How many years now without even the hint of a trophy?

But of course, it's dignified to slag off the ref for every poor decision that hurts you, but when you get the rub of the green to claim you 'didn't see it'

How humble.

[Lew-T]

Wenger is a great manager but is also a complete idiot. When Arse lose, he finds every bit of detail that went against him. But if its in his favour, he didn't see it!

[WellRedPhil]

Well he's proving himself to not be very good at building teams. How many years now without even the hint of a trophy?

But of course, it's dignified to slag off the ref for every poor decision that hurts you, but when you get the rub of the green to claim you 'didn't see it'

How humble.

He has no control over that, for some reason Arsenal are the only Club that when the directors, such as Ivan Gazidis, say that they are selling players for business reasons etc. it is assumed Wenger is in control of this. He clearly did not want to lose Van Persie, Nasri etc. but continues to build a team that consistently achieves top 4 whilst spending significantly less money than the likes of Liverpool, whilst actually making a net profit. Not what fans particularly want to hear but still an achievement to some extent. No Arsenal have this new shirt deal it will be interesting to see if they are given increased funds in the summer as promised, or whether that will turn out to be a lie. He remains the only manager to have won the PL with a team that at the point in time didn't spend the most money in the league, competing with City, Chelsea and United was always going to be tough in the initial aftermath of the stadium as they wanted to achieve financial stability. I do always find it amusing how teams are bashed for spending more than they have and being in masses of debt and then Arsenal actually don't spend outside their means and even make money and they're deemed to have no ambition and are slated for it. Classic.

[Red-Robbo]

Wenger is a great manager but is also a complete idiot. When Arse lose, he finds every bit of detail that went against him. But if its in his favour, he didn't see it!

So... a bit like Ferguson, Warnock, Adkins etc etc etc in that respect.

[Jordan Tansley]

He has no control over that, for some reason Arsenal are the only Club that when the directors, such as Ivan Gazidis, say that they are selling players for business reasons etc. it is assumed Wenger is in control of this. He clearly did not want to lose Van Persie, Nasri etc. but continues to build a team that consistently achieves top 4 whilst spending significantly less money than the likes of Liverpool, whilst actually making a net profit. Not what fans particularly want to hear but still an achievement to some extent. No Arsenal have this new shirt deal it will be interesting to see if they are given increased funds in the summer as promised, or whether that will turn out to be a lie. He remains the only manager to have won the PL with a team that at the point in time didn't spend the most money in the league, competing with City, Chelsea and United was always going to be tough in the initial aftermath of the stadium as they wanted to achieve financial stability. I do always find it amusing how teams are bashed for spending more than they have and being in masses of debt and then Arsenal actually don't spend outside their means and even make money and they're deemed to have no ambition and are slated for it. Classic.

Where on earth did I mention money? Wenger can't build a defence, that's why they won't win anything of note for as long as he's still there.

As you mentiong it, take all the money he's wasted on Chamack, Giroud, Arshavin, Gervinho (never players good enough for a club like Arsenal) and spend it on a capable keeper and a centre half who can actually sprint and they'd be fine.

Can't help but feel Wenger got a lucky break when he picked up Kolo Toure all those years ago, without him and Sol they would have been as bad as they are now.

[Lew-T]

So... a bit like Ferguson, Warnock, Adkins etc etc etc in that respect.

Fergie very rarely moans at decisions that go against him. If he does, then it's only a something small, but Wenger takes it to a whole new level! Warnock and Adkins are not even in the same league as Fergie and AW.

[glynriley]

Arsene Wenger is the perfect manager for a club who are more interested in making money than winning trophies.

I expect Theo Walcott to leave in January , that will be another player they will have made a profit on , and there will no doubt be others over the next year or 2.

The problem Arsenal's board have , is wether the fans are patient enough to wait for the FFP rules to kick in. Thats when their good housekeeping will give them a headstart on the rest.

[Red-Robbo]

Fergie very rarely moans at decisions that go against him. If he does, then it's only a something small, but Wenger takes it to a whole new level! Warnock and Adkins are not even in the same league as Fergie and AW.

Not as managers, but as moaners, Lew! They are Champions League standard whingers.

[BookEnd]

Clough, wow we will never see anyone like him again in football! a true character and he just has something about him you can't help but like, truely one of the greatest people to ever grace English football. Never saw him as a player but wow scoring 251 league goals from 274 starts is crazy! and he cost Sunderland mere chicken feed at 55k, and these days we see the likes of Carroll commanding fee's of 35 million! .... Disgusting what modern day Football has become, in my opinion.

[Jordan Tansley]

Arsene Wenger is the perfect manager for a club who are more interested in making money than winning trophies.

I expect Theo Walcott to leave in January , that will be another player they will have made a profit on , and there will no doubt be others over the next year or 2.

The problem Arsenal's board have , is wether the fans are patient enough to wait for the FFP rules to kick in. Thats when their good housekeeping will give them a headstart on the rest.

I can't imagine they'll make profit on Walcott, they paid what £14m plus add ons? One would assume a percentage of any fee will also be heading southamptons way. He's only got 6 months left on his current deal, so I'd imagine they won't make anything at all.

[glynriley]

I can't imagine they'll make profit on Walcott, they paid what £14m plus add ons? One would assume a percentage of any fee will also be heading southamptons way. He's only got 6 months left on his current deal, so I'd imagine they won't make anything at all.

No ,the original deal was changed when Southampton hit the skids. Arsenal paid a revised fee of about £9M , and I reckon he'll leave in Jan for a bit more than that (especially if Liverpool buy him).

[Jordan Tansley]

No ,the original deal was changed when Southampton hit the skids. Arsenal paid a revised fee of about £9M , and I reckon he'll leave in Jan for a bit more than that (especially if Liverpool buy him).

Really? That's a killer for Saints. Then again, the Ox is much better anyway.

[Keith_Lemon]

Talk to an old friend who use to work in a pub back in the early 70s. Clough would always come to his pub on a sunday and would get smashed. Come 4 o'clock he could barely walk, everyone knew of him and his antics even in his early days.

During his time with M'boro, he would often slate the defence as he would usually score 3 or 4 goals a game. Still Boro would draw 3-3 or lose 4-3. Once turned round to the defence of the team and said " If us strikers score 4 goals next saturday, do you think we will draw the match?" Was so open minded it stunned people but he could not of gave a monkeys toss.

[WellRedPhil]

Where on earth did I mention money? Wenger can't build a defence, that's why they won't win anything of note for as long as he's still there.

As you mentiong it, take all the money he's wasted on Chamack, Giroud, Arshavin, Gervinho (never players good enough for a club like Arsenal) and spend it on a capable keeper and a centre half who can actually sprint and they'd be fine.

Can't help but feel Wenger got a lucky break when he picked up Kolo Toure all those years ago, without him and Sol they would have been as bad as they are now.

Of course he's made bad signings and I've always found it strange how he wouldn't sign someone like Cahill for £7m but would Squallici for £6.5m but everyone makes mistakes. Look at some of the shit Fergie's signed over the years, Bebe was £7m for godsake! He built the invincible's defence which always makes that argument void. Even suggesting that team would be as bad as it is now without Kolo and Sol is laughable when you look at the front 6 they had then. You don't fluke an unbeaten season, nor do you fluke 3 PL titles. Why is Kolo a lucky break rather than a good signing yet his bad signings are poor rather than bad luck? Talk about a biased view...

There's not really much point in this debate though, you clearly dislike Wenger whilst I admire his work and it seems unlikely either of us will agree.

[Jordan Tansley]

Of course he's made bad signings and I've always found it strange how he wouldn't sign someone like Cahill for £7m but would Squallici for £6.5m but everyone makes mistakes. Look at some of the shit Fergie's signed over the years, Bebe was £7m for godsake! He built the invincible's defence which always makes that argument void. Even suggesting that team would be as bad as it is now without Kolo and Sol is laughable when you look at the front 6 they had then. You don't fluke an unbeaten season, nor do you fluke 3 PL titles. Why is Kolo a lucky break rather than a good signing yet his bad signings are poor rather than bad luck? Talk about a biased view...

There's not really much point in this debate though, you clearly dislike Wenger whilst I admire his work and it seems unlikely either of us will agree.

Well, when you look at his other defensive signings you've got to wonder whether getting just about the only two he's got right is a bit of a fluke. Vermaelen is decent, but other than that his defensive signings have been awful across the board IMO.

I loved the invincible a team, I really did. Carra is one of my heroes and the way Henry made him look in that game was something to behold. As I look at it, Arsenal had two great teams under AW. The basis of those two teams was the defence, the first he inherited (the best defence in Premier League history IMO.) and the second with Sol and Kolo at the heart.

I truly think a lot of managers would have done a better job with Arsenal since the break up of the invincibles. They should have pushed on.

I don't like Wenger, true. I respect him though. Same as Fergie. I just think he's lost what he had and he isn't as good as then. The evidence of titles would tend to support that.

[howey_ducky]

Well, when you look at his other defensive signings you've got to wonder whether getting just about the only two he's got right is a bit of a fluke. Vermaelen is decent, but other than that his defensive signings have been awful across the board IMO.

I loved the invincible a team, I really did. Carra is one of my heroes and the way Henry made him look in that game was something to behold. As I look at it, Arsenal had two great teams under AW. The basis of those two teams was the defence, the first he inherited (the best defence in Premier League history IMO.) and the second with Sol and Kolo at the heart.

I truly think a lot of managers would have done a better job with Arsenal since the break up of the invincibles. They should have pushed on.

I don't like Wenger, true. I respect him though. Same as Fergie. I just think he's lost what he had and he isn't as good as then. The evidence of titles would tend to support that.

for once i completely agree with you jt. although the two "jt's" i know are both muppets for the most part.

[spudski]

I stumbled on this Documentary about the young Brian Clough. It really is fantastic and worth a 20 min watch. Some great footage in it. I reckon Del could do worse than watching this...Would love to see a Documentary done like this at the beginning of a City season...then viewed again at the end. Best i've seen in a long time....enjoy.