New Stadium

[CIDER NOT CIDRE]

I know this has been brought up a load of times but I just wanted to know what everyone thinks about building Ashton Vale.

In my opinion I really don't think that we should build the new stadium until we start to look promising and play good football, challenging for the Premier League. We will end up a laughing stock like Cov with half a stadium filled every game and a rubbish atmosphere and look where Cov are now!!! I realize it helps financially but I think it would be better to keep the same stadium which we can't even fill at the moment! And also at the moment we really need to save money or we may face a transfer embargo with the new laws coming in to the football league in the coming seasons that say 'By the 2015-16 season, losses at a Championship club can be no more than £5m, with a maximum of £3m funded by shareholders and clubs. Clubs not meeting the detailed criteria face a transfer embargo'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/20607144

And don't use Brighton as an example of a new stadium doing well because they are actually playing really well and are top half!

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Anyone who wants to see BCFC in 10 years time must hit 'yes'. Rather sit as part of a 14k crowd in a 30k stadium than not see bcfc at all cos we've gone bust. Simple really

[Kid in the Riot]

Money spent on stadium development does not impact on FFP.

The legal battle for AV is being pursued by the landowners. It has nothing to do with us right now, so let em get on with it

[jambodinho]

It's a no brainer. If we stay at the gate, we will keep on going backwards. Saying we should wait until we are playing well and challenging for promotion is crazy. It doesn't take a couple of weeks to build a stadium. We could start building the stadium at the end of this season and in the time it takes to build we could get promoted to the Premier League, relegated and be fighting for our lives in the championship again. We NEED this stadium

[arpaul]

A new, well designed stadium could bring in revenue from non footballing activities every single day; Not just the one match day every two weeks.

A few years ago, I worked for a company whose head office was in Cradley Heath.

Any Company "get together" was held at The Hawthorns, home of West Brom. Every time I went, the other various banqueting & conference facilities were fully booked.

I've always thought that Bristol City and West Brom were clubs of similar ilk. (Admittedly, in the last 5 years or so they have left us behind),

However when you compare the off field facilities on offer you begin to grasp the extent of how dilapidated Ashton Gate has become.

With average crowds dwindling to just above 12 - 13,000 we City fans must face a reality check over our ambitions and aspirations for our beloved club.

13,000 people will not take Bristol City forward,unless admission prices rocket.

A new stadium may, just may, be the answer to all our prayers and dreams.

It's a yes for me.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Any Company "get together" was held at The Hawthorns, home of West Brom. Every time I went, the other various banqueting & conference facilities were fully booked.

I've always thought that Bristol City and West Brom were clubs of similar ilk. (Admittedly, in the last 5 years or so they have left us behind),

However when you compare the off field facilities on offer you begin to grasp the extent of how dilapidated Ashton Gate has become.

It's a yes for me.

But West Brom haven't got a new stadium - The Hawthorns has been redeveloped to hold 26,000, rising to 30,000 max. in 2014, if the club then feel more seats are needed.

West Brom are a very good example of how you can redevelop a ground successfully to provide banqueting, conference facilities, executive boxes etc. and increase revenue streams without leaving your traditional home.

The Hawthorns is actually the perfect model to show what Bristol City could achieve without leaving Ashton Gate.

[BCAGFC]

But West Brom haven't got a new stadium - The Hawthorns has been redeveloped to hold 26,000, rising to 30,000 max. in 2014, if the club then feel more seats are needed.

West Brom are a very good example of how you can redevelop a ground successfully to provide banqueting, conference facilities, executive boxes etc. and increase revenue streams without leaving your traditional home.

The Hawthorns is actually the perfect model to show what Bristol City could achieve without leaving Ashton Gate.

The Hawthorns site doesn't have the restrictions AG has, ie: houses at both ends and one side of the site.

BCAGFC

[Nogbad the Bad]

The Hawthorns site doesn't have the restrictions AG has, ie: houses at both ends and one side of the site.

BCAGFC

That's irrelevant.

We can equal both their capacity, and their revenue streams, on the present site.

[poland_red]

Anyone who wants to see BCFC in 10 years time must hit 'yes'. Rather sit as part of a 14k crowd in a 30k stadium than not see bcfc at all cos we've gone bust. Simple really

how do you know this?

[Welcome To The Jungle]

how do you know this?

Losing 8 figures every year and SL and his millions won't be around forever. Clearly a business that loses millions every year will go bust when the bailing stops. We can't ride this wave of Landsdown's cash forever, as eventually the wave will crash and we will be beached. I don't know for sure but unless it turns out that some Oil baron who is worth £xbillion wants to buy us, I suggest we help our club increase turnover, whilst lowering expenses.

Lord Sugar: 'Your hired' for understanding you must make a profit to make **** work

[Rob k]

how anybody can not understand the importance of a new stadium staggers me.

[poland_red]

Losing 8 figures every year and SL and his millions won't be around forever. Clearly a business that loses millions every year will go bust when the bailing stops. We can't ride this wave of Landsdown's cash forever, as eventually the wave will crash and we will be beached. I don't know for sure but unless it turns out that some Oil baron who is worth £xbillion wants to buy us, I suggest we help our club increase turnover, whilst lowering expenses.

Lord Sugar: 'Your hired' for understanding you must make a profit to make **** work

so surely we should be looking to make ourselves more sustainable than spunk money on what looks like a bloody hideous stadium that we'll fill once a decade.

[Lew-T]

It's a no brainer. If we stay at the gate, we will keep on going backwards. Saying we should wait until we are playing well and challenging for promotion is crazy. It doesn't take a couple of weeks to build a stadium. We could start building the stadium at the end of this season and in the time it takes to build we could get promoted to the Premier League, relegated and be fighting for our lives in the championship again. We NEED this stadium

" if we stay at the gate, we will keep going backwards "

That's not true. A new stadium doesn't always bring success to a football club. Look at Darlington! If we perform on the pitch, people will come. It's as simple as that

[Stephen Lewis]

Only 64 votes so far but running over 80% in favor, and I think that trend will continue.

Will probably fail to stop the stay at the gate fans from accepting their in a minority though.

[poland_red]

" if we stay at the gate, we will keep going backwards "

That's not true. A new stadium doesn't always bring success to a football club. Look at Darlington! If we perform on the pitch, people will come. It's as simple as that

What is startling is the number of people with the blinkered view that it's new stadium or bust. Their argument is irrational at best, and furthermore not supported by any precedent in history. I can't think of any club that has hit financial meltdown because they didn't move stadium, though I can certainly think of a few who did move and hit slippery slopes specifically because of their glittering new white elephant.

But the bottom line is people need to understand that that is neither here not there. It is not old stadiums or new stadiums that get clubs into financial black holes, but bad management. Should BCFC not be around in ten years time - heaven forfend - that will not be because of a refusal to move from AG, but because of the ineptitude that has long dominated the board room.

[poland_red]

Only 64 votes so far but running over 80% in favor, and I think that trend will continue.

Will probably fail to stop the stay at the gate fans from accepting their in a minority though.

Firstly, the poll is only going to indicate true levels of support when it hits the several thousand mark, up until then it has the accuracy of a blinded monkey. I'm certainly happy to accept that on this forum Stay at the Gater's like myself are a minority. I have no trouble accepting that, because as several other threads have proven, there's only a minority on here who speak sense in the first place.

[KeepUpLino]

That's irrelevant.

We can equal both their capacity, and their revenue streams, on the present site.

Tripe!!!

[Rob k]

" if we stay at the gate, we will keep going backwards "

That's not true. A new stadium doesn't always bring success to a football club. Look at Darlington! If we perform on the pitch, people will come. It's as simple as that

It's absolutely nowhere near as simple as that,

What revenue is generated through AG for approx 340 days a year there is no match on?

[poland_red]

It's absolutely nowhere near as simple as that,

What revenue is generated through AG for approx 340 days a year there is no match on?

what revenue is going to be generated at ashton vale when there is no match on?

[Stephen Lewis]

Firstly, the poll is only going to indicate true levels of support when it hits the several thousand mark, up until then it has the accuracy of a blinded monkey. I'm certainly happy to accept that on this forum Stay at the Gater's like myself are a minority. I have no trouble accepting that, because as several other threads have proven, there's only a minority on here who speak sense in the first place.

Thank you for proving my point.

[ralphindevon]

I voted yes, of course I want a new stadium.

But do I think it would be the end of the world if we didn't get one and had to develop AG.........NO! I wouldn't be at all bothered.

[Cider red]

I will miss the gate. But im on the side of we need the stadium to move forward. Better facilities and non match day revenue, as someone else said with conference facilities the new ground would be used more often than not...sl has gone on record saying we have pretty much NO non match day reveneu at ag, yes you could develop it but there isnt the space for parking and to have the same facilities. Saying all of that if the new ground doesn't go ahead a redeveloped gate that is designed accordingly could surely bring in some form of non match day revenue?

[Welcome To The Jungle]

so surely we should be looking to make ourselves more sustainable than spunk money on what looks like a bloody hideous stadium that we'll fill once a decade.

1) There is more income to any stadium than general season ticket and matchday sales.

2) The only way the club will fund AV is through the sale of AG. SL and co are funding the rest.

Sorry bud but it's AV (or other stadium) or bust for us

[JammyOne]

Sorry bud but it's AV (or other stadium) or bust for us

That's it in a nutshell. Do people honestly believe we can get by just refurbishing AG and expect SL to bail us out to the tune of 12 million each year? We need AV to bring in a income so that we can compete within FFP rules and so that we can have a sustainable club.

AV is a MUST. If not, we can expect to be where Rovers are, only with the debt.

[Lew-T]

That's it in a nutshell. Do people honestly believe we can get by just refurbishing AG and expect SL to bail us out to the tune of 12 million each year? We need AV to bring in a income so that we can compete within FFP rules and so that we can have a sustainable club.

AV is a MUST. If not, we can expect to be where Rovers are, only with the debt.

That's what I love about City fans, there is always exaggeration. If we lose, the world is going to end. If we win, we are unbeatable!

If we perform on the pitch, spend money on players wisely and ship out the dead wood, we will no doubt decrease the debt. I'm not against the stadium in any shape or form, I just don't think us staying at the Gate would be the end of the world?

[Nogbad the Bad]

It's absolutely nowhere near as simple as that,

What revenue is generated through AG for approx 340 days a year there is no match on?

We're talking about a redeveloped AG - including conference facilities, restaurants, executive boxes etc. - as an alternative to a new stadium, not settling for staying at an unchanged AG.

As well as an increased capacity to about 28k.,there would be the potential for markedly increased non matchday revenue - why would SL say a redeveloped AG was a viable alternative, and his stated plan B, otherwise?

[Red-Robbo]

I voted yes as I want my club to be able to subsidise its on field activities with the extra commercial opportunities a new stadium will bring. A revamped AG just isn't going to bring in the same sort of income and TBH would only be worth doing if we were likely to get bigger crowds in the near future.

[poland_red]

again, no-one has actually explained in REAL terms where this extra revenue is going to come from - 'conference facilities' is the one repeated answer, though no-one is saying exactly who will be holding there conferences here. It's not going to be big enough to be holding international trade fairs or expos, and the conferences that are held are not going to attract blue chip firms - that's bristol's fault in general for not having a good structure of hotels and transport facilities (in the international scheme of things). The reality is people holding conferences at AG are going to be tinpot local companies. That's all very good, but it's not going to push us to the next level and untap the stream of gold people seem to think it will. As a concert venue, either, it's not going to rival cardiff millenium, nec, wembley or anything like that, so forget about seeing madonna there. Executive boxes? Long overdue, of course, but they're not going to sell (well) unless the team is flying high. I guess we will have an extra big club shop, and that'll certainly be a benefit because so many people are desperate to wear a Bristol City shirt.

A great article that argues the point more eloquently than I ever could can be found at: http://www.footballfancast.com/football-blogs/a-huge-investment-that-delivers-no-guarantees

some great quotes in there, among them: "Recent cases across the football pyramid tend to suggest that taking the former option is far more advisable to maintain short-term stability and security, with only the most prestigious, profitable clubs attaining any form of long-term benefit from constructing a new ground"

this point is even more erudite:

"Whilst the allure of constructing a new, sparkling stadium may be too much too resist, history suggests that working within a club’s means is a far more sensible alternative to being lumbered with a recessive financial burden."

Anyway, when I ask for what revenue streams we'll benefit from, it'd be great if people could come up with proper facts and figures to support their argument - something more solid than "people will hold conferences here". As someone who travels globally to attend conferences, trade fairs and forums, I find it very hard to believe anyone worth more than three shillings and a sausage would choose AV. All evidence points to AV being 'doing on the cheap', and not much more than a replica of other grounds of the ilk of derby, coventry, mboro, bolton, leicester etc. Bristol City needs sensible financial planning, not a new stadium, it'll be a great day when people realize that.

[chalky]

What were the end results of the last poll on this? Be interesting to see if attitudes have changed at all....

[screech]

again, no-one has actually explained in REAL terms where this extra revenue is going to come from - 'conference facilities' is the one repeated answer, though no-one is saying exactly who will be holding there conferences here. It's not going to be big enough to be holding international trade fairs or expos, and the conferences that are held are not going to attract blue chip firms - that's bristol's fault in general for not having a good structure of hotels and transport facilities (in the international scheme of things). The reality is people holding conferences at AG are going to be tinpot local companies. That's all very good, but it's not going to push us to the next level and untap the stream of gold people seem to think it will. As a concert venue, either, it's not going to rival cardiff millenium, nec, wembley or anything like that, so forget about seeing madonna there. Executive boxes? Long overdue, of course, but they're not going to sell (well) unless the team is flying high. I guess we will have an extra big club shop, and that'll certainly be a benefit because so many people are desperate to wear a Bristol City shirt.

A great article that argues the point more eloquently than I ever could can be found at: http://www.footballf...s-no-guarantees

some great quotes in there, among them: "Recent cases across the football pyramid tend to suggest that taking the former option is far more advisable to maintain short-term stability and security, with only the most prestigious, profitable clubs attaining any form of long-term benefit from constructing a new ground"

this point is even more erudite:

"Whilst the allure of constructing a new, sparkling stadium may be too much too resist, history suggests that working within a club’s means is a far more sensible alternative to being lumbered with a recessive financial burden."

Anyway, when I ask for what revenue streams we'll benefit from, it'd be great if people could come up with proper facts and figures to support their argument - something more solid than "people will hold conferences here". As someone who travels globally to attend conferences, trade fairs and forums, I find it very hard to believe anyone worth more than three shillings and a sausage would choose AV. All evidence points to AV being 'doing on the cheap', and not much more than a replica of other grounds of the ilk of derby, coventry, mboro, bolton, leicester etc. Bristol City needs sensible financial planning, not a new stadium, it'll be a great day when people realize that.

Absolutely agree with what you say.

I've still not heard how the stadium will be paid for and over how long it will be paid for, who will own the stadium once completed. What kind of percentage the club will receive from each function if any.

The shortfall in the project worries me, it's a £90m build and just over £20m will be obtained through the sale of AG. I suspect selling the name of the new stadium will add a few more million, but we are still talking approx. £40-50 million that has to come from somewhere, but you are not allowed to ask that question because you are deemed negative to the cause.