BCAGFC Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Absolutely agree with what you say. I've still not heard how the stadium will be paid for and over how long it will be paid for, who will own the stadium once completed. What kind of percentage the club will receive from each function if any. The shortfall in the project worries me, it's a £90m build and just over £20m will be obtained through the sale of AG. I suspect selling the name of the new stadium will add a few more million, but we are still talking approx. £40-50 million that has to come from somewhere, but you are not allowed to ask that question because you are deemed negative to the cause. As Monkeh says on another thread, SL took out 46m from his Hargreaves/Lansdown shares, that is ear marked for the stadium build. Whether that will be a gift or another secured loan (probable) is unclear, at the end of the day, BCFC do not own AG now, SL does and always will until he sells up. You have to realise that to achieve promotion from L1 we spent millions and before that Danny Wilson wasted millions (getting us nowhere) and we have continued to waste millions (GJ mainly) on poor over rated prima donnas....that has to and will change in the future. I was told by a 3rd party, who manages a local non league club (before FFP regs were mentioned) that SL would invest HEAVILY in the playing squad if AV was built, obviously that cannot happen now due to FFP, he will probably invest it in the academy instead. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Obviously passions will be high but hope neither side villifies the other on here and it turns into an us v them situation, we're all City fans at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalky Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm dreading to think what the new ground is going to be called! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm dreading to think what the new ground is going to be called! Dreamland Neverland Hogwarts Utopia Shangri-La Narnia Middle Earth Cloud Cuckoo Land Any of those should work ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIDER NOT CIDRE Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Absolutely agree with what you say. I've still not heard how the stadium will be paid for and over how long it will be paid for, who will own the stadium once completed. What kind of percentage the club will receive from each function if any. The shortfall in the project worries me, it's a £90m build and just over £20m will be obtained through the sale of AG. I suspect selling the name of the new stadium will add a few more million, but we are still talking approx. £40-50 million that has to come from somewhere, but you are not allowed to ask that question because you are deemed negative to the cause. With what you say about the 40 million to 50 million I totally agree and to add to that if we lose that money building it it will be in a season where the laws about losing a maximum of 5million pounds will be in place meaning we will have to make profits of about 35-45 million and if we are LOSING 10-15 million a season at the moment then how are we going to make sure that we don't face hte transfer embargo linked with this rule. Also the new stadium may be like a new toy to a child... You want it even though it may not be better just because it's new and everyone likes new stuff. (Not saying anyone who wants the stadium is childish or like a child) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 No new stadium, City will be ******, simple as...gotta get money in from other events rather than football..the Gate, is too old, too small Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 With what you say about the 40 million to 50 million I totally agree and to add to that if we lose that money building it it will be in a season where the laws about losing a maximum of 5million pounds will be in place meaning we will have to make profits of about 35-45 million and if we are LOSING 10-15 million a season at the moment then how are we going to make sure that we don't face hte transfer embargo linked with this rule. Also the new stadium may be like a new toy to a child... You want it even though it may not be better just because it's new and everyone likes new stuff. (Not saying anyone who wants the stadium is childish or like a child) New stadium builds/redevelopment & investment in academies/training facilities don't count towards FFP. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIDER NOT CIDRE Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 New stadium builds/redevelopment & investment in academies/training facilities don't count towards FFP. BCAGFC Really? Fair enough then. Still don't agree with new stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 As long as Dawe is not at the helm. What a plank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've still not heard how the stadium will be paid for and over how long it will be paid for, who will own the stadium once completed. What kind of percentage the club will receive from each function if any, but you are not allowed to ask that question because you are deemed negative to the cause. This. Has anyone seen revised figures since 2009? Been a while and the economies b***ered - 'build it and they will come' or 'build it and we will collapse'? Not saying I don't want it in the long term, but.. here and now not looking good, or backed up by facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I have noticed ref to a plan b (redevelop) recently and do not go for this make or break us, if we dont get the AV Stad. Success is made by the players on the pitch, not the newness of a stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I have noticed ref to a plan b (redevelop) recently and do not go for this make or break us, if we dont get the AV Stad. Success is made by the players on the pitch, not the newness of a stadium. Whats the main club income overall? Gate/boxes? or a conference centre? Can a new box support a poor club, or can an old stadium support a team of winners? Too many questions not enough answers. I'm saying stick not twist for the forseeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citybs3 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I voted no because although I want the new stadium I'd much rather it be where AG is now. I worry the AV site will feel too far outside of the BS3 community - no pubs or shops nearby, it could all feel a bit soulless. I don't want us to be another Reading or Brighton in terms of location. If all this extra money will come from corporate facilities then why not just build a huge new Williams stand, double tiered for boxes etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS15_RED Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I voted no because although I want the new stadium I'd much rather it be where AG is now. I worry the AV site will feel too far outside of the BS3 community - no pubs or shops nearby, it could all feel a bit soulless. I don't want us to be another Reading or Brighton in terms of location. If all this extra money will come from corporate facilities then why not just build a huge new Williams stand, double tiered for boxes etc? What 5 minutes walk across Winterstoke Road? Hardly a big move outside if the clubs heartland now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I know this has been brought up a load of times but I just wanted to know what everyone thinks about building Ashton Vale. In my opinion I really don't think that we should build the new stadium until we start to look promising and play good football, challenging for the Premier League. We will end up a laughing stock like Cov with half a stadium filled every game and a rubbish atmosphere and look where Cov are now!!! I realize it helps financially but I think it would be better to keep the same stadium which we can't even fill at the moment! And also at the moment we really need to save money or we may face a transfer embargo with the new laws coming in to the football league in the coming seasons that say 'By the 2015-16 season, losses at a Championship club can be no more than £5m, with a maximum of £3m funded by shareholders and clubs. Clubs not meeting the detailed criteria face a transfer embargo'. http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/20607144 And don't use Brighton as an example of a new stadium doing well because they are actually playing really well and are top half! You mention Coventry City and their new stadium. I heard that the owner of Coventry City FC is threatening to pull out of the council owned new stadium and play elsewhere as the rental charge is too high !!!!!!! I've no idea how Coventry Council came to own the stadium but the same could happen to us. Would you like the known anti Bristolian and anti sport Bristol Council to own the new Ashton Vale? It could eventually happen and this club could then be made homeless as a result !!!!! I voted 'no' to a new stadium for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citybs3 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 What 5 minutes walk across Winterstoke Road? Hardly a big move outside if the clubs heartland now is it? No it wouldn't be out of the heartland but still a good 20-30min walk from North Street at least. For me, meeting up with mates before and after the game going for a beer is often the best part of the match day experience. Also, I doubt there will be ample parking so is there going to be 10k+ fans walking across Winterstoke Road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranidaze Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 A new stadium can potentially mean the club is going forward. If you look at a lot of teams that have had new stadiums in the last 10-15 years and look at their position now they are a lot stronger, ok not every team but 80% of them are financially and practically better off. Reading Southampton Wigan Sunderland Mk dons Cardiff Swansea Brighton Doncaster Colchester Teams that have not worked out so well for Coventry Darlington This is an example of a few teams. No it's. not going to guarantee to make you a better team and financially better off but it shows what it can do to a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 If all the dissenting voices on this post were less demanding and more forthcoming then it might make a better discussion. You all want to know how much and where the finace is coming from and how much it will earn regarding the new stadium, the answer is, we don't know for sure. All we know is that it will have the biggest conference facilities with double the parking and an Hotel adjacent to it. Making it infinately better than the Dolman hall facilities at AG. It will have corporate facilities unlike anything we currently have. It will have a chance to hold bigger events than AG currently has and earn more from them, because of the increased size and quality of the facilities. There will also be much more scope for the club to earn more money from the stadium on matchdays because of the increased onsite facilities. This last point is the fear that some (in North st) have, meaning lost revenue for them, which is another reason they oppose it. Those dissenting voices never ask the question of, how much will AG cost to redevelop, or how much could we potentially lose during it's redevelopment, or where are those extra facilities going to come from, to make up the shortfall between the two sites, such as parking and the extra 500 capacity for conferences, or indeed who is going to shell out that money for a smaller return on their investment. They only highlight what they think will undermine the new stadium bid. From memory, the redevelopment costs for AG were put at £60m +. The new stadium costs were £92m, with money coming in from AG £20m, Housing site sale £10m, Hotel and restaurant site sale £5m and naming rites of £5-£10m. it would leave a shortfall of £52 or £47m, which is obviously lower than the redevelopment costs At AG of £60m. Take into account the disruption and possible losses from gate receipts,(cup runs or more success) and the case for a new stadium adds up finacially. Add into the equasion that a redeveloped AG would still have a reduced capacity compared to AV and absolutely no chance whatsoever of increasing that capacity, for whatever reason, even temporarily, then the advantage of a new stadium is plain for all to see, apart from those not wanting it. I can understand nostalgia and not wanting to be in what some describe as a souless bowl, even though it's only the lower section that is such but, the arguments of not wanting to play in a half empty/full stadium don't add up. Not long ago, we were playing to gates of 7/8,000 with a capacity of 32,000. our ground is regularly under capacity, should we reduce that capacity? When we were promoted to the old 1st division, our gates were not dissimilar to recently and we had a capacity of 40,000 plus, we needed that capacity on a few occasions with a team that had little success, a little more and we'd have used it more and increased our fan base. I suggest we try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 A new stadium can potentially mean the club is going forward. If you look at a lot of teams that have had new stadiums in the last 10-15 years and look at their position now they are a lot stronger, ok not every team but 80% of them are financially and practically better off. Reading Southampton Wigan Sunderland Mk dons Cardiff Swansea Brighton Doncaster Colchester Teams that have not worked out so well for Coventry Darlington This is an example of a few teams. No it's. not going to guarantee to make you a better team and financially better off but it shows what it can do to a club. Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but, historically, we've been more like Coventry City FC as a football club than like any other club in your lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 You mention Coventry City and their new stadium. I heard that the owner of Coventry City FC is threatening to pull out of the council owned new stadium and play elsewhere as the rental charge is too high !!!!!!! I've no idea how Coventry Council came to own the stadium but the same could happen to us. Would you like the known anti Bristolian and anti sport Bristol Council to own the new Ashton Vale? It could eventually happen and this club could then be made homeless as a result !!!!! I voted 'no' to a new stadium for this reason. Exactly the same could apply to AG then. We are tenents to the stadium company, they could go bust and be bought by the council. So it's either a new stadium for the benefits or don't try to improve, in my opinion it's a new home all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranidaze Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Fair enough but Coventry have played premier league football. And if you look at their average league position in the last 10-15 years I can guarantee its higher than ours. I'm not going to say it will make us a better club because it could work both ways, but I certainly don't think it will make us worse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS15_RED Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 No it wouldn't be out of the heartland but still a good 20-30min walk from North Street at least. For me, meeting up with mates before and after the game going for a beer is often the best part of the match day experience. Also, I doubt there will be ample parking so is there going to be 10k+ fans walking across Winterstoke Road? Bullshit, 20-30 minutes from North Street? Just leave 5 minutes earlier to get in the ground for KO. It's irrelevant about weather any one wants a new stadium or not, the club needs it ASAP, we can't sustain Championship football at the Gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 From memory, the redevelopment costs for AG were put at £60m +. The new stadium costs were £92m, with money coming in from AG £20m, Housing site sale £10m, Hotel and restaurant site sale £5m and naming rites of £5-£10m. it would leave a shortfall of £52 or £47m, which is obviously lower than the redevelopment costs At AG of £60m. That was how many years ago tho? Whats the value now and for the forseeable with all the sh*t that the torys dumped on us. Building costs must be lower and so are housing salles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Exactly the same could apply to AG then. We are tenents to the stadium company, they could go bust and be bought by the council. So it's either a new stadium for the benefits or don't try to improve, in my opinion it's a new home all the way. ....yes but, Coventry Council never got their mits on Coventry City FC's old stadium that was Highfield Road !!!!! A new stadium would make us vulnerable and increase the liklihood of a Bristol Council takeover of the new stadium for whatever reason. If we were a top flight club - with Ashton Gate rammed every week with people being turned away because of lack of room because we were playing superb football - then yes a new stadium would be a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citybs3 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Bullshit, 20-30 minutes from North Street? Just leave 5 minutes earlier to get in the ground for KO. It's irrelevant about weather any one wants a new stadium or not, the club needs it ASAP, we can't sustain Championship football at the Gate. Bullshit? I live in Ashton Vale and walk to AG and you'd struggle to get there in 5mins if you were flat out sprinting! Personally I'm unsure if I'd take Championship football at the cost of becoming another Reading/Brighton in terms of location. How far would you move away if it meant being in the Prem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 But West Brom haven't got a new stadium - The Hawthorns has been redeveloped to hold 26,000, rising to 30,000 max. in 2014, if the club then feel more seats are needed. West Brom are a very good example of how you can redevelop a ground successfully to provide banqueting, conference facilities, executive boxes etc. and increase revenue streams without leaving your traditional home. The Hawthorns is actually the perfect model to show what Bristol City could achieve without leaving Ashton Gate. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 ....yes but, Coventry Council never got their mits on Coventry City FC's old stadium that was Highfield Road !!!!! A new stadium would make us vulnerable and increase the liklihood of a Bristol Council takeover of the new stadium for whatever reason. If we were a top flight club - with Ashton Gate rammed every week with people being turned away because of lack of room because we were playing superb football - then yes a new stadium would be a necessity. Don't understand your argument regarding which ground what, odds does it make which ground the council take over? You could be just as much in finacial trouble with an old or new ground, if your bust your bust. I don't think the council are anti sport, just not pro sport. Their too worried pandering to the minority groups, who are the only people that pressure our council regularly. Cardiff City recently enticed a player to them, he had the option of joining us for £2k more per week so I'm told (LB, Taylor I think). He wasn't Welsh, so I can only assume that he thought of them as a bigger better club with more chance of success. why? As for the comparison between Coventry and us, well, I'd give my right arm for their history compared to ours, unless your talking about the last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 From memory, the redevelopment costs for AG were put at £60m +. The new stadium costs were £92m, with money coming in from AG £20m, Housing site sale £10m, Hotel and restaurant site sale £5m and naming rites of £5-£10m. it would leave a shortfall of £52 or £47m, which is obviously lower than the redevelopment costs At AG of £60m. That was how many years ago tho? Whats the value now and for the forseeable with all the sh*t that the torys dumped on us. Building costs must be lower and so are housing salles So the building costs might be lower. That applies to the new stadium, as well. Those figures are from three years ago, I think, so not a lot different. I didn't think it was the Tories that leaft the country in debt to the tune of £160 billion and in recession, though they haven't done much to help. Don't forget, it was the last government that got the anti greenbelt development opposition, backs up in the first place by proposing 120,000 houses around Bristol. That's just one of the groups who've been fighting us regionwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 So the building costs might be lower. That applies to the new stadium, as well. Those figures are from three years ago, I think, so not a lot different. I didn't think it was the Tories that leaft the country in debt to the tune of £160 billion and in recession, though they haven't done much to help. Don't forget, it was the last government that got the anti greenbelt development opposition, backs up in the first place by proposing 120,000 houses around Bristol. That's just one of the groups who've been fighting us regionwide. The anti English and pro unrestricted immigration and European Union loving traitor Labour Party did leave our country in massive debt. I doubt that those Labour Party Cultural Marxists would have got away with it in my Grandfathers' day as they'd all have been executed for High Treason.....and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 The anti English and pro unrestricted immigration and European Union loving traitor Labour Party did leave our country in massive debt. I doubt that those Labour Party Cultural Marxists would have got away with it in my Grandfathers' day as they'd all have been executed for High Treason.....and rightly so. Don't beat around the bush RG, say what you really think, chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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