Genuine City Legends

[TRL]

Good shout those that said Llewellyn. May have been stupid recently, but that bloke would have run through a brick wall for city.

The kind of full back we could do with now. Tackle hard, win the ball. If the opposition was quicker, move further up the pitch and bring them down. If quick and skillful, smack em down. Either way tho shalt not pass. The bloke did not possess great pace, height or technique. He made up for it with fight and tenacity.

I'd have him as a legend, and he got his 10 years in.

[exiledinwatford]

Post War mine would be:

John Atyeo, Geoff Merrick, Chris Garland, Trevor Tainton, Gerry Gow, Tom Ritchie, Gerry Sweeney, Alan Walsh, John Galley, Bob Taylor, Louis Carey, Brian Tinnion, Scott Murray and Mike Gibson - best goalkeeper I can remember.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

John Atyeo, Brian Clark, Bobby shadow Williams, Jack Connor, Mike Gibson, Gerry Sharpe, John Galley, Chris Garland, Geoff Merrick, Gerry Gow, Gerry Sweeney, Tom Ritchie, Dave Rogers, Clive Whitehead, Terry Cooper, Bob Taylor.

[BCFC OF SWEDEN]

Kevin Mabbutt! A hat tric at Old Trafford....Say no more...

[ralphindevon]

It would be good to see a true definition of a footballing legend,

I notice some of the older posters, who obviously have a bigger choice, don't entertain putting the likes of Andy Llewelyn, Rob Newman, Basso in their selection.

I think we should draw a line between, great players, great (fairly loyal) clubmen and big characters. As TRL said in his praise of Llewelyn, "The bloke did not possess great pace, height or technique" well this kind of rules him out as a footballing legend for me. I was a big fan of his though.

If you find a player with all 3, then I think you have a legend.

I like the lists posted by EMB and Exiled in Watford. Though I'm too young to remember some mentioned.

[TRL]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="ralphinfrance" data-cid="1683696" data-time="1355863171"><p>

It would be good to see a true definition of a footballing legend,<br />

<br />

I notice some of the older posters, who obviously have a bigger choice, don't entertain putting the likes of Andy Llewelyn, Rob Newman, Basso in their selection.<br />

<br />

I think we should draw a line between, great players, great (fairly loyal) clubmen and big characters. As TRL said in his praise of Llewelyn, "The bloke did not possess great pace, height or technique" well this kind of rules him out as a footballing legend for me. I was a big fan of his though.<br />

<br />

If you find a player with all 3, then I think you have a legend.<br />

<br />

I like the lists posted by EMB and Exiled in Watford. Though I'm too young to remember some mentioned. </p></blockquote>

What the problem is is the definition of legend. In real terms it is a myth or story. I am not sure we can call a player a legend in these terms.

A great maybe, but any choice of word to describe a player is in the eye of the beholder. You do not need to be a great player to be a legend.

Think about the goalie who scored for Carlisle to keep them up in the last minute. That is a legendary tale, also true. He is a legend in Carlisle fans eyes, even though he was not a great player.

For me Llewellyn is a legend, one of the youngsters to help rebuild the club, first Wembley win, promotion and wholehearted displays and a testimonial. For me, he has to be up there.

[GrahamC]

Good shout those that said Llewellyn. May have been stupid recently, but that bloke would have run through a brick wall for city.

The kind of full back we could do with now. Tackle hard, win the ball. If the opposition was quicker, move further up the pitch and bring them down. If quick and skillful, smack em down. Either way tho shalt not pass. The bloke did not possess great pace, height or technique. He made up for it with fight and tenacity.

I'd have him as a legend, and he got his 10 years in.

Absolutely.

My definition of legend would be someone who gave their all for the club and did so over a fairly lengthy period, so Llewellyn, (like Newman and Carey) would be in for me.

That's why I have to laugh when a drunkard who managed barely 35 games for us, a striker who didn't score a league goal for us away from home is classified as a "legend" for about 5 decent performances and a load of unnecesary ball tricks..

[ralphindevon]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="ralphinfrance" data-cid="1683696" data-time="1355863171"><p>

It would be good to see a true definition of a footballing legend,<br />

<br />

I notice some of the older posters, who obviously have a bigger choice, don't entertain putting the likes of Andy Llewelyn, Rob Newman, Basso in their selection.<br />

<br />

I think we should draw a line between, great players, great (fairly loyal) clubmen and big characters. As TRL said in his praise of Llewelyn, "The bloke did not possess great pace, height or technique" well this kind of rules him out as a footballing legend for me. I was a big fan of his though.<br />

<br />

If you find a player with all 3, then I think you have a legend.<br />

<br />

I like the lists posted by EMB and Exiled in Watford. Though I'm too young to remember some mentioned. </p></blockquote>

What the problem is is the definition of legend. In real terms it is a myth or story. I am not sure we can call a player a legend in these terms.

A great maybe, but any choice of word to describe a player is in the eye of the beholder. You do not need to be a great player to be a legend.

Think about the goalie who scored for Carlisle to keep them up in the last minute. That is a legendary tale, also true. He is a legend in Carlisle fans eyes, even though he was not a great player.

For me Llewellyn is a legend, one of the youngsters to help rebuild the club, first Wembley win, promotion and wholehearted displays and a testimonial. For me, he has to be up there.

Fair enough, like I said I was a fan, as I was of most of the players who help drag us out of the mire. We could certainly do with some, what can I do for the club, not, what can the club do for me, attitude from some of our players now.

[TRL]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="ralphinfrance" data-cid="1683713" data-time="1355864861"><p>

<br />

Fair enough, like I said I was a fan, as I was of most of the players who help drag us out of the mire. We could certainly do with some, what can I do for the club, not, what can the club do for me, attitude from some of our players now.</p></blockquote>

Ain't that the truth.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

It would be good to see a true definition of a footballing legend,

I notice some of the older posters, who obviously have a bigger choice, don't entertain putting the likes of Andy Llewelyn, Rob Newman, Basso in their selection.

I think we should draw a line between, great players, great (fairly loyal) clubmen and big characters. As TRL said in his praise of Llewelyn, "The bloke did not possess great pace, height or technique" well this kind of rules him out as a footballing legend for me. I was a big fan of his though.

If you find a player with all 3, then I think you have a legend.

I like the lists posted by EMB and Exiled in Watford. Though I'm too young to remember some mentioned.

I forgot about Biffo Newman so I add him now to my list.

[Bowie]

Tinnion - ha ha...hell no.

10 year+ servant maybe, but only a great player for 3 years or so under Wilson when he was stuck in the middle, 7 years of mederoicty and unprofessional behaviour when Ward left and undermining of Benny doesn't make him a legend

Care more about himself than the club.

[Whites]

It would be good to see a true definition of a footballing legend,

I notice some of the older posters, who obviously have a bigger choice, don't entertain putting the likes of Andy Llewelyn, Rob Newman, Basso in their selection.

I think we should draw a line between, great players, great (fairly loyal) clubmen and big characters. As TRL said in his praise of Llewelyn, "The bloke did not possess great pace, height or technique" well this kind of rules him out as a footballing legend for me. I was a big fan of his though.

If you find a player with all 3, then I think you have a legend.

I like the lists posted by EMB and Exiled in Watford. Though I'm too young to remember some mentioned.

Scott Murray

[bcfcbrowners]

Tinnion - ha ha...hell no.

10 year+ servant maybe, but only a great player for 3 years or so under Wilson when he was stuck in the middle, 7 years of mederoicty and unprofessional behaviour when Ward left and undermining of Benny doesn't make him a legend

Care more about himself than the club.

wow seriously ..... verbal diarrhea springs to mind

[New Dazzler]

Collectively there is no way the Ashton 8 can be regarded as legends. 6 of them, Garland, Mann, Merrick, Rodgers, Tainton and Sweeney were all players who were on top flight wages, and most of them on lengthy contracts. Although they can be remembered as being decent players during the late 70s as members of the promotion team, and subsequently varying individual success as top flight players for 4 seasons, they were a big part of the team that delivered 2 successive relegations and were, by early1982, fighting another relegation battle and bleeding the club dry. Aitken and Marshall were on "Championship" wages and were added to the other 6 as they were also overpaid under-achievers. The first thing the administrators realised was that if these bunch of wasters were not booted out the club would die. So, although its never good when someone has to lose their living wage, these things happen in the real world, where a company cannot sustain its outgoings due to under-performance. It was not such a sacrifice to tear up their contracts, if the club had folded they would have got less than they did!

I wonder how such a situation would have been perceived today. It would have been interesting to have Chris Garland tweeting from the Christmas party of 1981 about how much he lost at the bookies, perhaps Julian Marshall (who would have made Nyatanga look like Beckenbauer) was only signed as he was a brilliant social events organiser, 'cos he was no footballer (would have got dog's abuse on here without a shadow of doubt).

So let's not romanticise this bunch of has-beens, as they sadly were by the spring of 1982. If they had been worth half what City were paying, they would all have been snapped up by top flight clubs on 3 year contracts. In reality they all found clubs but it was Trowbridge Town, Torquay, York and some club in Hong Kong. None of them were able to say that the club was wrong to get rid, as they only got short term contract before most of them hung up their boots.

Anyway my City legends are Norman Hunter, our best ever defender (in my time at least), Gerry Gow, arguably the best player I have ever seen in a City shirt, Jackie was the most entertaining, Clive Whitehead and Scott Murray not far behind and a wild card shout of David Noble for his 2 goals on promotion day and the screamer against Palace, and a very honourable mention to Jody Morris for organising the best ever Christmas Party!

[Mr Mosquito]

Collectively there is no way the Ashton 8 can be regarded as legends. 6 of them, Garland, Mann, Merrick, Rodgers, Tainton and Sweeney were all players who were on top flight wages, and most of them on lengthy contracts. Although they can be remembered as being decent players during the late 70s as members of the promotion team, and subsequently varying individual success as top flight players for 4 seasons, they were a big part of the team that delivered 2 successive relegations and were, by early1982, fighting another relegation battle and bleeding the club dry. Aitken and Marshall were on "Championship" wages and were added to the other 6 as they were also overpaid under-achievers. The first thing the administrators realised was that if these bunch of wasters were not booted out the club would die. So, although its never good when someone has to lose their living wage, these things happen in the real world, where a company cannot sustain its outgoings due to under-performance. It was not such a sacrifice to tear up their contracts, if the club had folded they would have got less than they did!

I wonder how such a situation would have been perceived today. It would have been interesting to have Chris Garland tweeting from the Christmas party of 1981 about how much he lost at the bookies, perhaps Julian Marshall (who would have made Nyatanga look like Beckenbauer) was only signed as he was a brilliant social events organiser, 'cos he was no footballer (would have got dog's abuse on here without a shadow of doubt).

So let's not romanticise this bunch of has-beens, as they sadly were by the spring of 1982. If they had been worth half what City were paying, they would all have been snapped up by top flight clubs on 3 year contracts. In reality they all found clubs but it was Trowbridge Town, Torquay, York and some club in Hong Kong. None of them were able to say that the club was wrong to get rid, as they only got short term contract before most of them hung up their boots.

Anyway my City legends are Norman Hunter, our best ever defender (in my time at least), Gerry Gow, arguably the best player I have ever seen in a City shirt, Jackie was the most entertaining, Clive Whitehead and Scott Murray not far behind and a wild card shout of David Noble for his 2 goals on promotion day and the screamer against Palace, and a very honourable mention to Jody Morris for organising the best ever Christmas Party!

It's just a great shame that we couldn't hold on to the likes of Super Bob Taylor, Andy Cole, Steve Caulker and Jason Roberts for a few years longer - all great players for other clubs after they left here.

[redcityman]

Wouldn't it be great if John Ward can be thought of in legendary status come May!

[poland_red]

I'm only listing players I've seen live n in my lifetime here...

Jacki

Bob Taylor

Wayne Allison

Rob Newman

Scott Murray

Keith Welch

Micky (I know!-good player though)

Bradley Orr

Louis

good shout for wayne - god, i though he was a useless lump when he played for us, but you could never doubt he was city through and through and would lay down and die for the club. a real genuine player, and by all accounts a great bloke off the pitch as well.

[poland_red]

It's just a great shame that we couldn't hold on to the likes of Super Bob Taylor, Andy Cole, Steve Caulker and Jason Roberts for a few years longer - all great players for other clubs after they left here.

Cole was clearly destined for the top flight, you could tell the moment he made his debut against wolves (?) that he was something special. unfortunately, it was also clear that while he didn't hold an agenda against us, we were simply a stepping stone for greater things. Bob on the other hand, I don't think it was a case of us not being able to hold on to him, i think the club wanted shot of him and scandalously thought 300 large was a smart price I'm gutted to this day, he was my first cult hero at city still, i think it's a great testament to him that no-one at city begrudged him the success he would later enjoy elsewhere.

for the record, the AG8 and that era are before my time, but would say Bob and Jacki are my all time city legends - great memories.

[Timbo7]

Collectively there is no way the Ashton 8 can be regarded as legends. 6 of them, Garland, Mann, Merrick, Rodgers, Tainton and Sweeney were all players who were on top flight wages, and most of them on lengthy contracts. Although they can be remembered as being decent players during the late 70s as members of the promotion team, and subsequently varying individual success as top flight players for 4 seasons, they were a big part of the team that delivered 2 successive relegations and were, by early1982, fighting another relegation battle and bleeding the club dry. Aitken and Marshall were on "Championship" wages and were added to the other 6 as they were also overpaid under-achievers. The first thing the administrators realised was that if these bunch of wasters were not booted out the club would die. So, although its never good when someone has to lose their living wage, these things happen in the real world, where a company cannot sustain its outgoings due to under-performance. It was not such a sacrifice to tear up their contracts, if the club had folded they would have got less than they did!

I wonder how such a situation would have been perceived today. It would have been interesting to have Chris Garland tweeting from the Christmas party of 1981 about how much he lost at the bookies, perhaps Julian Marshall (who would have made Nyatanga look like Beckenbauer) was only signed as he was a brilliant social events organiser, 'cos he was no footballer (would have got dog's abuse on here without a shadow of doubt).

So let's not romanticise this bunch of has-beens, as they sadly were by the spring of 1982. If they had been worth half what City were paying, they would all have been snapped up by top flight clubs on 3 year contracts. In reality they all found clubs but it was Trowbridge Town, Torquay, York and some club in Hong Kong. None of them were able to say that the club was wrong to get rid, as they only got short term contract before most of them hung up their boots.

Anyway my City legends are Norman Hunter, our best ever defender (in my time at least), Gerry Gow, arguably the best player I have ever seen in a City shirt, Jackie was the most entertaining, Clive Whitehead and Scott Murray not far behind and a wild card shout of David Noble for his 2 goals on promotion day and the screamer against Palace, and a very honourable mention to Jody Morris for organising the best ever Christmas Party!

This is one of the bravest posts I have ever seen on this forum - I hope you are able to maintain your anonymity. But before you come under attack may I add my support and agreement to much if not all that you have said?

In some ways you beat me to it. On reading the forum on the train home last night I too was struck by the irony of acclaim for the 8 juxtaposed with vitriol for current overpaid under-performing bunch. As you have said, some of the 8 are worthy of acclaim for their part in past glories but also played their part in the miserable failures of 79-80, 80-81 and 81-82. I am too young to clearly recall the attitude of the supporters towards the players during those dark days BUT I would be very surprised if it was too far removed from that reflected on this forum in recent weeks - I am certain that at times it looked like they didn't care and were not trying hard enough - I have never heard accounts of three years of heroic failure.

When it all came to head in February 1982, Coller and Sage played hard ball with the 8 and fortunately a deal was eventually done. Some of the 8 still say the club could have done more for them although the evidence appears to suggest the contrary. Whatever the truth, and it is interesting to see the diametric split of acclaim between Coller and Sage on one hand and the 8 on the other, it is a matter of fact that Bristol City only just survived. I recall a match against Swindon around Christmas/New Year 82/83 with City at the foot of the 4th. The first team played in a mixture of at least three strips (fortunately all red and white) and memorably the referee stopped the game at one point to instruct one of our two number 8's to change his shirt to number 7 as indicated on the team sheet!

On the basis of all of this, is it reasonable expect any one of our current squad to be immediately elevated form zero to hero if they willingly move on in January to another club on a lower wage without demanding we pay them compensation for the remainder of their current inflated contract???

To avoid doubt - for me Coller, Sage, Des Williams, Les Kew and the 8 all deserve our thanks for their sacrifices in 1982 - but, absent other evidence, none of our current players deserve a dog's abuse for fear of failure, lack of confidence and self-belief or signing a contract which is more lucrative than we can afford or that they are worth. All but a few of us are equally subject to all of these vices!

[SecretSam]

The definition of a "legend" seems to be quite subjective; I'd not put in Jacki 'cos although entertaining, he never moved the team forwards or gave his heart and soul for the side. There have been 'entertaining' greats down the years - eg Scotty on his day - but it's notable that many of these players are admired for their graft and dedication.

[AtyeoRed]

That's a scary thought - using that logic, you could say that the only Bristol team to win at the Millennium stadium should becomes legends also......gulp!! :laugh:

What ever, The point being CITY DID IT FIRST!!!

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Shaun Taylor - How we could do with a man of his calibre now! Besides him, recent memory Tinman, Scott Murray and Shaun Goater.

[TRL]

I may put up Martin Scott. Brilliant hard left back, 100% every time and one of a rare few to go on to better things.

We have had many good left backs, but none in the last 30 years better than him at defending. Not to shabby going forward either.

[Cunnyfunt]

Alan Walsh, Scott Murray and Tinnion in my time.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Collectively there is no way the Ashton 8 can be regarded as legends. 6 of them, Garland, Mann, Merrick, Rodgers, Tainton and Sweeney were all players who were on top flight wages, and most of them on lengthy contracts. Although they can be remembered as being decent players during the late 70s as members of the promotion team, and subsequently varying individual success as top flight players for 4 seasons, they were a big part of the team that delivered 2 successive relegations and were, by early1982, fighting another relegation battle and bleeding the club dry. Aitken and Marshall were on "Championship" wages and were added to the other 6 as they were also overpaid under-achievers. The first thing the administrators realised was that if these bunch of wasters were not booted out the club would die. So, although its never good when someone has to lose their living wage, these things happen in the real world, where a company cannot sustain its outgoings due to under-performance. It was not such a sacrifice to tear up their contracts, if the club had folded they would have got less than they did!

I wonder how such a situation would have been perceived today. It would have been interesting to have Chris Garland tweeting from the Christmas party of 1981 about how much he lost at the bookies, perhaps Julian Marshall (who would have made Nyatanga look like Beckenbauer) was only signed as he was a brilliant social events organiser, 'cos he was no footballer (would have got dog's abuse on here without a shadow of doubt).

So let's not romanticise this bunch of has-beens, as they sadly were by the spring of 1982. If they had been worth half what City were paying, they would all have been snapped up by top flight clubs on 3 year contracts. In reality they all found clubs but it was Trowbridge Town, Torquay, York and some club in Hong Kong. None of them were able to say that the club was wrong to get rid, as they only got short term contract before most of them hung up their boots.

Anyway my City legends are Norman Hunter, our best ever defender (in my time at least), Gerry Gow, arguably the best player I have ever seen in a City shirt, Jackie was the most entertaining, Clive Whitehead and Scott Murray not far behind and a wild card shout of David Noble for his 2 goals on promotion day and the screamer against Palace, and a very honourable mention to Jody Morris for organising the best ever Christmas Party!

This is one of the bravest posts I have ever seen on this forum - I hope you are able to maintain your anonymity. But before you come under attack may I add my support and agreement to much if not all that you have said?

In some ways you beat me to it. On reading the forum on the train home last night I too was struck by the irony of acclaim for the 8 juxtaposed with vitriol for current overpaid under-performing bunch. As you have said, some of the 8 are worthy of acclaim for their part in past glories but also played their part in the miserable failures of 79-80, 80-81 and 81-82. I am too young to clearly recall the attitude of the supporters towards the players during those dark days BUT I would be very surprised if it was too far removed from that reflected on this forum in recent weeks - I am certain that at times it looked like they didn't care and were not trying hard enough - I have never heard accounts of three years of heroic failure.

When it all came to head in February 1982, Coller and Sage played hard ball with the 8 and fortunately a deal was eventually done. Some of the 8 still say the club could have done more for them although the evidence appears to suggest the contrary. Whatever the truth, and it is interesting to see the diametric split of acclaim between Coller and Sage on one hand and the 8 on the other, it is a matter of fact that Bristol City only just survived. I recall a match against Swindon around Christmas/New Year 82/83 with City at the foot of the 4th. The first team played in a mixture of at least three strips (fortunately all red and white) and memorably the referee stopped the game at one point to instruct one of our two number 8's to change his shirt to number 7 as indicated on the team sheet!

On the basis of all of this, is it reasonable expect any one of our current squad to be immediately elevated form zero to hero if they willingly move on in January to another club on a lower wage without demanding we pay them compensation for the remainder of their current inflated contract???

To avoid doubt - for me Coller, Sage, Des Williams, Les Kew and the 8 all deserve our thanks for their sacrifices in 1982 - but, absent other evidence, none of our current players deserve a dog's abuse for fear of failure, lack of confidence and self-belief or signing a contract which is more lucrative than we can afford or that they are worth. All but a few of us are equally subject to all of these vices!

Nice to read the flipside about the AG8, thankyou I'm too young to remember this in fact I wasn't even a year old but I've read, heard and watched the story..I to have been caught up in the romanticism of the idea about these guys ripping up the contracts to save the club as well and consider them heroes but then you think that they were on big wages through Citys downward spiral and were sucking the club dry, ultimately killing the club.

[Mr Mosquito]

Kevin Mabbutt! A hat tric at Old Trafford....Say no more...

....indeed, Kevin Mabbutt is a genuine City legend for that amazing feat that very few others have achieved in the long and illustrious history of Old Trafford.

[glynriley]

....indeed, Kevin Mabbutt is a genuine City legend for that amazing feat that very few others have achieved in the long and illustrious history of Old Trafford.

Only 2 players have scored a hat trick at Old Trafford since Mabbutt in 1978.

Dennis Bailey for QPR 1992 and Fat Ronaldo for Real Madrid in 2003.

[Mr Mosquito]

Cole was clearly destined for the top flight, you could tell the moment he made his debut against wolves (?) that he was something special. unfortunately, it was also clear that while he didn't hold an agenda against us, we were simply a stepping stone for greater things. Bob on the other hand, I don't think it was a case of us not being able to hold on to him, i think the club wanted shot of him and scandalously thought 300 large was a smart price I'm gutted to this day, he was my first cult hero at city still, i think it's a great testament to him that no-one at city begrudged him the success he would later enjoy elsewhere.

for the record, the AG8 and that era are before my time, but would say Bob and Jacki are my all time city legends - great memories.

Cole, Caulker and Roberts were certainly destined for top flight football and a great shame they didn't take this club with them to the promised land. As for Super Bob, brilliant player and a genuine City legend as was Kevin Mabbutt with his hat-trick at Old Trafford during our top flight days. Paul Cheesley as well until Stoke's Peter Shilton helped get him crocked.

As was explained by New Dazzler, there was a flip side to the Ashton Gate 8 saga. Personally, I think that the club was generally mismanaged during that era. Had a more capable and monied Chairman taken the helm in the late 1970s we may still be a top flight club now. Also, Bristol's big businesses failed to back the club with enough big money so as to keep us in the top flight. Alan Dicks was a very capable manager and him getting us promotion back to the top flight and getting his players to win 0-1 at Highbury against Arsenal was magical. However, without the big money for big signings we were always going to struggle in the top flight of English football.

[Dorset_Cider]

My Dad....... was (Is still too me) a genuine CITY LEGEND!

Okay he was a BCFC supporter & not player....... but he did point me and most of my family (Brothers) towards the true path.

UP THE CITY! (As most of my dead & still living relatives say)

[Red-Robbo]

Shaun Taylor - How we could do with a man of his calibre now! Besides him, recent memory Tinman, Scott Murray and Shaun Goater.

Taylor was everything you'd want as a defender.

Whilst never destined to be a fleet-footed target man at the opposite end, in our half he was dogged, resolute, intimidating - he positioned himself excellently, foresaw threats and closed them down and inspired others around him to do likewise.

The guy was a born leader and - from reports - the life-and-soul of any party and a big morale lifter for the entire team.

Whether ST deserves the legend tag I'm not so sure. But one thing's undeniable: He's one of the best players we've seen in the last 30 years.