wiltshire_exile Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Its just not a very happy club anymore or is it the social media bubble we now seem to live in. Value for money is an issue and with smaller gates comes smaller wages, so wanting this player or that player will be an issue! Football is changing and I don't think we were ready for it! I wanted Del to succeed and don't really want him to go, I wish he could prove us all wrong but he seems to be drowning at the moment! Bad times ahead, even if we appoint a new manager and stay up we could be back in this dilemma this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted January 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I really don't want to change managers again, I detest the idea of a club that has no stability. But isn't McInnes CAUSING instability (within the team, anyway) by his constant tinkering with the line up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lager loud Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I really don't want to change managers again, I detest the idea of a club that has no stability. I'm concerned that there is some deeper problem at the club and sacking the manager will not solve it. It's very easy to arrive at "manager is clueless" but is it really the manager or (purely suspicion) have the board totally ****** up the contract situation amongst the players with new signings and created a lot of disharmony? Something isn't right at the club and hasn't been since before McInnes IMO. I think his signings have been generally good (particularly the expensive ones like Baldock, Davies and Cunningham) and though there are definitely gaps in the squad we don't know what has happened in deals we haven't completed. I also like McInnes, he speaks like a charismatic, intelligent bloke and I want him to succeed so I'm sure I have some bias. However: - It's now pretty much impossible to understand let alone defend his team selections and constant chopping and changing - There's little sign of improvement in performances since the start of the season - Two goals a game and not a single clean sheet yet a different back 3/4/5 every week - January is the last chance to change the squad So I guess the question is, who could we hire that has a better chance of turning this around? I hear names like O'Driscoll, Cotterill, Davies... I'm not really that confident. If there were a stellar candidate I guess it's time to act but is there? Like you, I'm not sure there's anyone available who we could get to come here who'd be any better. For me, it's not about finding a way to stay up this season (although that would be a nice unexpected bonus). It's about getting the club operating on a basis that makes it viable in the long run. It's simply not sustainable to run the kind of deficits we have in recent years. And there's a real danger that we spend a lot of money (again) in the short term - paying off Del and others, giving the new manager money to spend - and just end up in the same sort of mire in a year or two's time, whichever division we're in. Somehow, we need to become a club that develops players, rather than just buys them. We need to get some young players in the team who we can move on for a profit, rather than paying top dollar for mediocre older players. I was optimistic when Coppell was appointed as I thought he might be around for a few years and make changes throughout the club. I don't know exactly what "behind the scene" changes Del is making. I do know that there are few signs that he's improving things on the pitch at the moment, or has the nouse to do so. If the Board does decide that Del isn't the man to take us forward, I hope they think beyond the next 20 or so games, and try to get someone who can rebuild the club AND get the 1st team playing competently. The likes of Davies might kick enough ass to keep us up this year, but leave us in an even worse position in the long run. I don't envy those who have to actually make this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 It wasn't so long ago that this forum was full of criticism for Millen and almost everyone was calling for his head. They got their wish and now 15 months or so later the club is in a worse position. Take a look at our 'friends' north of the river. They're antics show that changing the manager frequently doesn't mean things will improve. Whats to say that replacing McInnes now will make any difference? .Replacing Millen made none so why should it make a difference now? Be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 So if you don't believe change is the answer why have you been calling him " tinkerman" for the past few weeks? At least be consistent, comparing us with Rovers is ridiculous, you could just easily say Swansea, as they change managers regularly, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 So if you don't believe change is the answer why have you been calling him " tinkerman" for the past few weeks? At least be consistent, comparing us with Rovers is ridiculous, you could just easily say Swansea, as they change managers regularly, too. No, he just wanted to claim he was right and everyone else was wrong about Millen. Fact is, we'd have been down last season if we hadn't changed managers so it kind of flies in the face of Robbo's masturbatory told you so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 But isn't McInnes CAUSING instability (within the team, anyway) by his constant tinkering with the line up? Yes, he is. I don't disagree, but that is a different level of instability - you could fix it by playing the same side for 6 weeks. Changing managers annually is a whole different kind and much harder to recover from IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I really don't want to change managers again, I detest the idea of a club that has no stability. I'm concerned that there is some deeper problem at the club and sacking the manager will not solve it. It's very easy to arrive at "manager is clueless" but is it really the manager or (purely suspicion) have the board totally ****** up the contract situation amongst the players with new signings and created a lot of disharmony? Something isn't right at the club and hasn't been since before McInnes IMO. I think his signings have been generally good (particularly the expensive ones like Baldock, Davies and Cunningham) and though there are definitely gaps in the squad we don't know what has happened in deals we haven't completed. I also like McInnes, he speaks like a charismatic, intelligent bloke and I want him to succeed so I'm sure I have some bias. However: - It's now pretty much impossible to understand let alone defend his team selections and constant chopping and changing - There's little sign of improvement in performances since the start of the season - Two goals a game and not a single clean sheet yet a different back 3/4/5 every week - January is the last chance to change the squad So I guess the question is, who could we hire that has a better chance of turning this around? I hear names like O'Driscoll, Cotterill, Davies... I'm not really that confident. If there were a stellar candidate I guess it's time to act but is there? I see your point Nibor but I really don't think we have a choice now. We are showing no signs of improvement and if we're honest bar two spells of McInnes reign (his opening 6 games and the unbeaten run of 7 at the end of last season) we have been pretty dire throughout his tenure. I honestly cannot see how we are going to stay up with McInnes at the helm and I have zero faith in the man to rebuild this team in League 1. Now moving onto which candidates represent suitable choices, I think SOD has to be considered. He has a track record for building football teams and more importantly changing the philosophy at the clubs he's been at, something which could benefit us. I would be willing to risk his appointment (assuming he'd come) and even if we did go down at least he has experience in building a team in League 1 and getting them promoted. The other option, a nasty manager such as Cotterill of Davis may provide the 'kick up the backside' we need but will it work in the long run, or even be enough this season? Perhaps not and they would not be my ideal choice but they still represent a much better option than McInnes who for me has shown zero signs of making us better anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 So if you don't believe change is the answer why have you been calling him " tinkerman" for the past few weeks? At least be consistent, comparing us with Rovers is ridiculous, you could just easily say Swansea, as they change managers regularly, too. Swansea's managers ( except for Sousa) have been changed because of the clubs success and not because of lack of it. It's completely different when a manager leaves for another club because of his successful period at "said" club. Swansea and Rovers just can't be compared. Rovers are the model that our fans seem intent on following,they have changed numerous times in the last 5 years,and look where that has got them There is NO guarentee that changing managers will help us. It was only last season that there were fans on here worrying that MCinnnes would leave us for a bigger club!! The fickleness of 2012 football fans is incredible. Yes,we are pretty Shute at the mo, but all that's happening is that we are in a relegation battle. We have most of the other low sides still to come to play at AG. I'm not saying it will happen, but 2-3 wins in the next month and all of a sudden our manager will be a hero to the same fickle fans who are coming out with there extreme bile and hatred towards him currently. For the record,I don't think he has enough nouse as a manager at the moment, but I won't be abusing him etc on here, unlike the pathetic cowardly ranters who are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 No, he just wanted to claim he was right and everyone else was wrong about Millen. Fact is, we'd have been down last season if we hadn't changed managers so it kind of flies in the face of Robbo's masturbatory told you so. We'll never know whether City would have been relegated under Millen. He had turned it around before and may well have done it again. I'm saying that whatever the board do regarding the managerial dilemma it will be a gamble. They sacked Millen after a run of poor performances and gave in to fans pressure and eventually appointed McInnes. 15 months later the clubs situation is worse so the gamble of changing managers failed. Maybe thats why the board are so reluctant to act now. They got it wrong last time and are afraid of messing up again. I'm glad its not me that has to make the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 It wasn't so long ago that this forum was full of criticism for Millen and almost everyone was calling for his head. They got their wish and now 15 months or so later the club is in a worse position. Take a look at our 'friends' north of the river. They're antics show that changing the manager frequently doesn't mean things will improve. Whats to say that replacing McInnes now will make any difference? .Replacing Millen made none so why should it make a difference now? Be careful what you wish for. we don't change manager frequently, nor could anyone accuse of doing so if & when mcinnes is sacked by my reckoning, since september 2005 we have had 4 managers, one of whom walked out of his own accord after 5 minutes which necessitated another appointment having 3 managers in almost 8 years isn't what i call chopping & changing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 we don't change manager frequently, nor could anyone accuse of doing so if & when mcinnes is sacked by my reckoning, since september 2005 we have had 4 managers, one of whom walked out of his own accord after 5 minutes which necessitated another appointment having 3 managers in almost 8 years isn't what i call chopping & changing If McInnes is sacked that'll be two managers in two years. Or six managers in 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 It wasn't so long ago that this forum was full of criticism for Millen and almost everyone was calling for his head. They got their wish and now 15 months or so later the club is in a worse position. Take a look at our 'friends' north of the river. They're antics show that changing the manager frequently doesn't mean things will improve. Whats to say that replacing McInnes now will make any difference? .Replacing Millen made none so why should it make a difference now? Be careful what you wish for. In principle I would be the first to support such statements as 'give him time' and 'constantly sacking managers isn't going to get us anywhere', but you have to be pragmatic. You cannot stubbornly stick with McInnes purely because sacking him and replacing him would mean our fourth manager in less than three years since Gary left. If McInnes had actively shown some kind of plan to improve us in the medium and long terms then fine. I would currently be in the minority supporting him, but the fact is that he hasn't. From his team selections and interviews you would believe he had been here a couple of weeks and is constantly experimenting in order to find a solution, in reality he is in his 16th month of having the job. What particular style of football is McInnes trying to instill into our team? I've been to every game this season and I have no real clue about how we attempt to play, with or without the ball. Does McInnes actually have a system he believes in? He has said he he preferred 442 at St. Johnstone, but why then has he seemingly made no attempt to strengthen the midfield in order for us to be able to play in that formation. Sure there is a need to be flexible and being able to play with more than one system is an advantage over the course of the season, but all we have shown is that we are incapable of playing in many systems. By all accounts that have been improvement made in the academy in the last few months and I fully expect he has played an active part in this, but does anybody actually to know as to what extent the improvements are down to him? The scouting system as far as I can see remains poor. In the summer he said we were only looking at targets from the Premier League or other Championship teams. Is this down to Derek and our scouts (wrongly) believing there are no adeuqate players in the lower leagues, or is it more worrying actually because we did not even put the work in to find rough diamonds such as Albert at a lower level? The McManus loan sums it up for me. We may not be paying anywhere near all of his (ridiculous) wages, but we will be paying a fair chunk, are there not similar players available for much less at a lower level. After all we signed big Jamie McCombe from Lincoln and although he was found out eventually at this level, he still played a major role in a team that firstly got promoted to this division and then got to Wembley the following year, unlike McManus who's record while playing for City is abysmal. In Cunningham, Heaton, Baldock and Davies he has signed four good players (in Cunningham's case an excellent one). However McInnes himself has admitted that neither Davies or Baldock can play up front on their own and our midfield and defence are so weak that even when we play two up front at least one of them has to be Taylor or Stead. Now we can sit here endlessly debating the merits of Baldock/Davies and Pitman, but to me 'obvious goal threat, but unable to lead the line and unable to carry their weaknesses in our team' sounds an awful lot like our ostracized former striker from the Channel Islands. Some would even question the merits of Heaton compared to Gerken. Lastly, as I keep repeating the vast majority of our squad have shown in the past that they can at least be reasonable players at this, or an equivalent, level. How have so many of them managed to play so badly for such a long time under McInnes' instructions. A few of the performances put in from certain players or in many cases the whole team this season (and last season in games such as Peterborough and Hull away) would go down as awful in League 2, let alone our level. So for me all of these things stack up make me think that McInnes' time as City manager should be brought to an end. And I haven't even mentioned the pointless signings such as Wilson and Morris, his scattergun selection policy or, most importantly, his appalling record on the pitch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Excellent post oh bearded one, can't argue with any of that. I believe he will be gone tomorrow and takes my best wishes back to Scotland with him. Pity we wasted so much time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Excellent post oh bearded one, can't argue with any of that. I believe he will be gone tomorrow and takes my best wishes back to Scotland with him. Pity we wasted so much time and money. Bearded like others has highlighted several reasons why McInnes should be dismissed and no-one can argue with any of them. Question is - will the board act this month, let alone this week having got it so badly wrong last time. Personally I feel regardless of what the board do its already too late. The damage has been done in the first half of the season. There are no managers out there imo that could save us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Bearded red's post sums it up perfectly. It is the lack of a cohesive plan, no consistent formation and still no idea at all what he sees as his first choice side which is why we should bring his reign to a close. It would be difficult for whoever came in to save us, but acting now at least gives us a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newarkred Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Excellent post oh bearded one, can't argue with any of that. I believe he will be gone tomorrow and takes my best wishes back to Scotland with him. Pity we wasted so much time and money. Do you really believe he will be gone tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Bearded like others has highlighted several reasons why McInnes should be dismissed and no-one can argue with any of them. Question is - will the board act this month, let alone this week having got it so badly wrong last time. Personally I feel regardless of what the board do its already too late. The damage has been done in the first half of the season. There are no managers out there imo that could save us. 1.5 points per game is all it would take. It's all there to play for. With a settled, organised defence we'd do that quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin101 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 It's a very, very tough call. I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that, on the pitch at least, McInnes has appeared tactically poor - poorer than both Millen and Johnson. Or argue that the football we are watching is significantly better than that under the previous two managers. Personally, i believe he is probably the worst of the bunch. However, as a club, is it the right decision? I'm not sure we the fans can really answer that fully. We know that finances have to improve and sacking McInnes is hardly going to achieve that. Sacking McInnes means sacking the entirety of the backroom staff, and I believe the academy has been developing nicely has it not? And then we'll be left with several players signed by a previous manager, no longer playing, taking up wages. It would, clearly, mean the whole club would have to rebuild. It could be argued that this is exactly what we need, but how on earth do we know? The back room staff haven't been here long enough for us to see whether their efforts are bearing fruit. The club is gambling. If we stick and survive huge success. If we sack and survive, success. Stick and be relegated, failure. Sack AND be relegated, disaster. Personally, i think we'll be relegated whatever. Sticking with McInnes until the summer at least is what the board will do, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 1.5 points per game is all it would take. It's all there to play for. With a settled, organised defence we'd do that quite easily. I really wish I could feel as upbeat as you Nibor. After three seasons of fighting the drop the optimism I once felt has evaporated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 It seems such a long time now since we had a team that could compete at this level (under Gary Johnson i think it was). And i take no pleasure in knowing i was right all along that we were too hasty in giving him the boot. Unfortunately what is done is done, and now cannot be reversed. Successive managers have since been such a let down. And previous managers failed to bring any sort of success at all. Alas it would appear we again need a true leader, someone who can make us hard to beat and actually compete. We seem such a pushover side at present. And yet, i still feel with one or two very good signings we could put all this behind us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I really wish I could feel as upbeat as you Nibor. After three seasons of fighting the drop the optimism I once felt has evaporated. Hardly upbeat, just not defeatist. Nobody's ever relegated in January, you see the evidence of that every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 That could be 1.75 points per match by the end of the month, which would be play off places average over a season, no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Hardly upbeat, just not defeatist. Nobody's ever relegated in January, you see the evidence of that every season. You sum it up nicely, I just wish a lot on this forum would take note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 1.5 points per game is all it would take. It's all there to play for. With a settled, organised defence we'd do that quite easily. and a fully functioning midfield, which we do not have on our books at present in way shape or form. oh yes and settled side, to give them a chance to get to know each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff65 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Is McInnes' problem in assuming that the squad of players can adapt to several different styles/formations that he can utilise against different opposition and the fact of the matter is that the players haven't shown the ability to master one formation let alone being competent enough to come up with the goods in several different formations. When the formation works we score four, playing in a 4-4-2 against Cardiff and Palace and a 3-5-2 against Peterborough. Trouble is when we ask the players to play in a diamond or pressure high up the field, the players don't succeed in following his well thought out plan for the opposition. Millen said that the players can play different formations and are capable of playing different formations, but I have to wonder whether this is actually true at all. The evidence of the Millen tenure and McInnes tenure is that the players are incapable of fulfilling the remit given to them by different managers. Changing the manager again, still might not achieve this fundamental requirement of players, playing to the manager's preparations for the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fleuriot Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Is McInnes' problem in assuming that the squad of players can adapt to several different styles/formations that he can utilise against different opposition and the fact of the matter is that the players haven't shown the ability to master one formation let alone being competent enough to come up with the goods in several different formations. When the formation works we score four, playing in a 4-4-2 against Cardiff and Palace and a 3-5-2 against Peterborough. Trouble is when we ask the players to play in a diamond or pressure high up the field, the players don't succeed in following his well thought out plan for the opposition. Millen said that the players can play different formations and are capable of playing different formations, but I have to wonder whether this is actually true at all. The evidence of the Millen tenure and McInnes tenure is that the players are incapable of fulfilling the remit given to them by different managers. Changing the manager again, still might not achieve this fundamental requirement of players, playing to the manager's preparations for the match. I think this is an excellent analysis of the problem. But I do think McInnes needs to recognise this and stop making sch radical changes each week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshback Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 For me, the only hope is to relieve McInnes of his duties and allow A.N. OTHER to try to get us to safety (I DON'T CARE WHO is appointed - ANYONE! - because they can't be any worse than what is happening right now). Even a caretaker manager, for heavens sake! (Blackburn aren't doing bad, are they?) What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 and a fully functioning midfield, which we do not have on our books at present in way shape or form. oh yes and settled side, to give them a chance to get to know each other. As midfields go ours is average, if the defence was settled it would be enough for 1.5 points a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 As midfields go ours is average, if the defence was settled it would be enough for 1.5 points a game. Have you seen the first goal yesterday?, where exactly was our average midfield?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.