Celtic / Rangers And A Possible Move South?

[Andy082005]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11787/8596030/Charles-Green-believes-Old-Firm-will-be-play-in-England

I have always been against these two clubs moving south of the border, however if they were to start at Conference Level....what would people think?

[Maesknoll Red]

I've never bothered to research the reason Welsh clubs are allowed in English leagues, but would the sweaty's be able use the same argument (whatever it is).

[Dynamite Red]

Where would it stop if it "Under European law, is categorically a restraint of trade", surely this would allow PSG or Barcelona to join the English football leagues. The more I hear from this Charles Green guy the more I think he comes across as an odious fool.

[Barrs Court Red]

They can jog on. Potentialy more damaging to European football than bosman.

[Cowshed]

I've never bothered to research the reason Welsh clubs are allowed in English leagues, but would the sweaty's be able use the same argument (whatever it is).

Football leagues originally were very Northern leagues. Those leagues were enlarged to include clubs in the South, West and Wales. It is in effect a structure of English and Welsh clubs, and has been for ninety[?]years.

Celtic and Rangers can join the Premier league if the Premier league decides it is commercially in its interest.

[slartibartfast]

Surely it wouldn't be possible if the sweaties get independance ?

[phantom]

They bring nothing to the table, all about benefit to them.

With their current squads they would do well to compete in the Championship

Expect that they just want a wedge of the Sky TV cash

[dezgimed]

Hope this doesnt happen.

Sick to death of hearing about Celtic/Rangers on this board, let alone on the BBC Sport page, on the news, etc etc. Constantly bickering load of tossers. If I never heard anything about Scottish football again it would be too soon.

[glynriley]

I hate 'the' Rangers with a passion, odious club since reformation. This we should be playing in England stuff is horrendously and ill through out as Slarti says if they get independence will be the most pointless thing going, as effectively will be inelligible.. Or else the Super League will be upon us and all the 'top' teams can get lost

"This still going on? It's been suggested a load of times. I really cant see why it's ruffled everyone's feathers so much. It isnt happening so hold your horses. Good grief it's like mumsnet on here but worse some times."

Ring any bells ?

[RedZepperin]

I gave up reading when he said: "That is what football wants - to bring the money in."

The idea of "football" has been so distorted recently that it now just means "business" to some people.

[glynriley]

I see what you did there

I was making a passing comment on how this wouldnt happen.. and my general disdain for 'The' Rangers and Charles Green. Rather than being all frothy in the mouth because someone suggested that Bristol United should be formed for the umpteenth time.

Cheers for the discussion

Ah I see , it's ok for you to make a 'passing comment' on a subject that's been done to death , but when others do the same , you feel compelled to make a $4itty comment !!

Perhaps , if it's ok with you , people should be allowed to discuss what they want on a discussion form. Just a thought.

[Son of Fred]

no thanks..stay where you are..

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

If they go into the Conference, How many teams would cope financially paying for there players and staff to travel to Scotland and Back?

If a team gets promotion from Conference South I feel they would definitely struggle to find funds for travel

[Red Cloud]

could you imagine the Jocks considering helping English clubs? never in a million years!

stuff 'em

[dezgimed]

Cant believe its even being discussed. They are Scottish, let them play in Scotland. Simple. There is precedent with the Welsh clubs but that is done and dusted now.

[Monkeh]

if they want to join the english league they have to start at the very bottom just like fan formed teams,

[catcott_red1]

What gives them the right to go straight into the Blue Square Bet Premier (conference) anyway?! Why do they get to start there, surely thats unfair on the teams in the blue square north and south and even below that in the Isthmian league and so on. Look at AFC Wimbledon (i know its different but the principle remains the same) a new club and they had to start at the very bottom and work thier way up the leagues. Why can't rangers and celtic do that if they wish to be in our league system.

Would it mean that one year clubs don't get promoted from the north and south leagues and Rangers and Celtic just push in.

Seems unfair. here's an idea, stay in your country and league and improve the competiveness of that rather than jumping ship!

[dezgimed]

Even better, move them to Ireland, seeing as most the fans are pikeys from there anyway.

[Aizoon]

I've never bothered to research the reason Welsh clubs are allowed in English leagues, but would the sweaty's be able use the same argument (whatever it is).

There wasn't a Welsh League when Wrexham joined the FL, and the others followed. In fact, technically, there wan't even a Wales in the administrative sense.

[Monkeh]

There wasn't a Welsh League when Wrexham joined the FL, and the others followed. In fact, technically, there wan't even a Wales in the administrative sense.

Wrexham, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport county always played in the english league as far as I;m aware,

[Lrrr]

Green says he would not even accept an invitation to play in the Premier League or Football League

BULL S***!!!

[chalky]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11787/8596030/Charles-Green-believes-Old-Firm-will-be-play-in-England

I have always been against these two clubs moving south of the border, however if they were to start at Conference Level....what would people think?

I say remove Cardiff and Swansea and replace it with the old firm....

Long way for us to travel were we ever to play them in comparison however!!

[22A]

Green says he would not even accept an invitation to play in the Premier League or Football League but would wish to start their English adventure at Conference level.

Dammed decent of the guy. Did he perchance think they'd have automatic entry to the Prem? Going on current League standings Inverness and Ross Co have more right than Rangers to progress to a higher level of football.

Some years ago Celtic's Chief Exec stressed it was vital for them to play in the English Prem as;

1. the wealthy clubs must stick together and

2. the higher standard of competition would benefit the Scottish pair for when they play in Europe.

[Monkeh]

Green says he would not even accept an invitation to play in the Premier League or Football League but would wish to start their English adventure at Conference level.

Dammed decent of the guy. Did he perchance think they'd have automatic entry to the Prem? Going on current League standings Inverness and Ross Co have more right than Rangers to progress to a higher level of football.

Some years ago Celtic's Chief Exec stressed it was vital for them to play in the English Prem as;

1. the wealthy clubs must stick together and

2. the higher standard of competition would benefit the Scottish pair for when they play in Europe.

its all about greed in boardroom level for rangers they aren't making millions in the scottish third and they can't because the got caught fiddling their tax,

The club shouldn't be aloud to exist

[Always Believesham]

If they go into the Conference, How many teams would cope financially paying for there players and staff to travel to Scotland and Back?

If a team gets promotion from Conference South I feel they would definitely struggle to find funds for travel

I think Glasgow can only be as difficult to get to as Barrow; anyway, I've long thought clubs should have to pay for teams to travel to them, put them up in a hotel if over 2 hours coach away - that's well off topic though, point well made re:travel

Maybe if they put together a Glasgow United their application might be succesful ...

They're just angling for a European super league of some of the lesser nations - or at least Green is.

It will happen when Rangers return to the SPL - it would prove to Platini and UEFA that Rangers are too big for sanctions in the SPL/SFA

[22A]

They're just angling for a European super league of some of the lesser nations - or at least Green is.

About 10 - 15 years ago the Glasgow pair wanted to be in a stronger League. They realised the Leagues in Portugal, Holland & Belgium also consisted of two strong teams and a load of mediocrity. They proposed forming a league of their own; The Atlantic League was the chosen name, but UEFA put a stop to it stating they all had to play in their own domestic leagues.

[chipdawg]

The idea of them not being able to play in England as a "retraint of trade" sounds like one of those brilliant anti-EU tirades you get from people like Farage. It sounds vaguely plausible when printed as a Daily Mail editorial but contains no actual 'fact'. For them to prove 'restraint' of trade, they would have to prove that they can't operate effectively as a company due to being denied entry to English football pyramid. Given that they're playing matches on tv most weeks in front of 40000+ people, that's patently not true. That's before you even consider the fact that the English leagues themselves are businesses so are under no obligation to deal with Rangers or Celtic full stop unless they decided to operate an open tender process to find new members. Indeed, I would argue that it's more likely that they COULDN'T admit Rangers and Celtic without Inviting tender from other clubs and if some Russian oligarch wanted to set up a club from scratch anywhere in the EU they would probably have just as much of a right to apply to enter. So in Charles Greens "restraint of trade" terms, Ferencvaros or Spartak Plovdiv have just as much chance of gaining entry to the English football pyramid and it just ain't gonna happen

[screech]

The idea of them not being able to play in England as a "retraint of trade" sounds like one of those brilliant anti-EU tirades you get from people like Farage. It sounds vaguely plausible when printed as a Daily Mail editorial but contains no actual 'fact'. For them to prove 'restraint' of trade, they would have to prove that they can't operate effectively as a company due to being denied entry to English football pyramid. Given that they're playing matches on tv most weeks in front of 40000+ people, that's patently not true. That's before you even consider the fact that the English leagues themselves are businesses so are under no obligation to deal with Rangers or Celtic full stop unless they decided to operate an open tender process to find new members. Indeed, I would argue that it's more likely that they COULDN'T admit Rangers and Celtic without Inviting tender from other clubs and if some Russian oligarch wanted to set up a club from scratch anywhere in the EU they would probably have just as much of a right to apply to enter. So in Charles Greens "restraint of trade" terms, Ferencvaros or Spartak Plovdiv have just as much chance of gaining entry to the English football pyramid and it just ain't gonna happen

Although unlikely it will happen, Berwick do play in Scotland, and we have Welsh teams in the English league. So I would say he may have a small point. But of course, it would require the FA to invite them, and for that reason I can never see it happening. He seems to think that the league will want them to generate more money, but now the Satellite League has just got it's greediest deal ever, it is a mute point.

[beaverface]

Ok, it's all about money - pure and simple.

Can I suggest that the Premier League let in the old firm, they then batten up the doors and not let any fans in. After all, football is now business and sportsmanship and fans don't come into the equation anymore.

Let all the teams play behind closed doors without any fans, and we'll soon see how long these clubs would last !!

It's about time football clubs realised that football is a hobby and not a business, and by treating it as businesses will eventually lead to their own downfall.

Sure there needs to be a rational amount of business acumen, but predominantly football is a hobby.

[chipdawg]

Although unlikely it will happen, Berwick do play in Scotland, and we have Welsh teams in the English league. So I would say he may have a small point. But of course, it would require the FA to invite them, and for that reason I can never see it happening. He seems to think that the league will want them to generate more money, but now the Satellite League has just got it's greediest deal ever, it is a mute point.

But that's irrelevant; the FA, Football League, Premier League, whatever, can't 'restrain' the trade of Rangers or Celtic. Restraint of trade could only apply in legislative terms, i.e. The laws or actions of an EU nation stop a private company from maximising a profit, and as Rangers continues to operate as a football club up in Scotland, how is trade restrained? Indeed, they are free to sell shirts in England and their TV deal is with a company based in England. It's an utterly redundant argument because it has no basis whatsoever. I think the argument of Berwick or the Welsh clubs carries more weight as a moral debate, but I think the morality left football (and business for that matter) a long time ago and a club that defrauded the Scottish game and the UK tax man for so many years using an argument of 'morals' carries about as much weight as a UK prime minister who's never had a proper job, is related to royalty and married to one of the richest heiresses in Britain decrying the 'something for nothing culture' in the UK...