Gas Stadium Financing

[Oldland Red 08]

Good luck with NG Bailey!

I don't actually work for them, but a good mate is a surveyor there

N (no) G (good) Bailey as most people say

[redfred]

I know a gashead, and i hear, well presume, i think anyway, i dont probe him though, id rather make my own mind up, and he may not know anyway...

nice one fred

Poor old Peski. Sometimes you see what you want to see. I'll have a tenner (I know you lot don't understand money yet so that's a rabbit and two carrots in your financial language) that the majority of Rovers' fans are bored shitless with your new stadium after two years. And this is factoring in how simple you lot are as well.

Money where your mouth is, Peski.

[redfred]

It's not just the Stadium costs, apparently their debt's being wiped out completely as well - again, none of them know how, they just swallow it!

Quite the norm for them...

[ispep2012]

Poor old Peski. Sometimes you see what you want to see. I'll have a tenner (I know you lot don't understand money yet so that's a rabbit and two carrots in your financial language) that the majority of Rovers' fans are bored shitless with your new stadium after two years. And this is factoring in how simple you lot are as well.

Money where your mouth is, Peski.

Not really worth the bother over something thats so long away for a rabbit and 2 carrots (or a tenner as you call it)....Was it someone else who told you we dont understand money, or didn you ask them atall so made your own mind up???

[redfred]

Not really worth the bother over something thats so long away for a rabbit and 2 carrots (or a tenner as you call it)....Was it someone else who told you we dont understand money, or didn you ask them atall so made your own mind up???

I can't believe you are turning down the opportunity of a week's food supplies, Peski? Ah well...

[weeble]

Their stadium build costs are about £47m. If they managed to get sponsorship/naming rights of say £5m, that would leave them £42m to find. I cannot for the life of me believe that Sainsbury's are paying more for the Memorial Ground than they would for AG. Although they'd sell some of the plot off for housing, they'd still only have a store half the size of that planned at AG.

So, if we say £20m from Sainsbury's and that's a big IF, and possibly £5m for naming rights, that still leaves them £22m short of financing the stadium. The UWE are providing the land in return for the use of some rooms for teaching, the use of the car park and the use of the stadium for a few events during the year.

Where's the rest coming from?

The quoted project cost is £40m. The construction cost will be considerably lower. E.g. Brighton's ground has a project cost of £93m but a build cost (and they excavated half a hill) of £66m.

Sainsbury's annual accounts apparently show a provision of £31m for stores in the Bristol area. There will be no naming rights as it's being called the UWE Stadium, but this may be in effect a direct swap for the 125 year ground lease. Other income will be from the lease of the Sainsbury's local store at the stadium and UWE are leasing teaching space in it. There will also be a relatively small grant from the Football Trust.

The bowl construction technique (due to be used at Ashton Vale) apparently saves considerably on construction costs as no steelwork is required to prop up the seating. This may be back of the envelope calculations, but it is quite possible that there is no funding gap. Remember this is what Nick Higgs did for a living and he was very good at it.

Sainsbury's may well pay more than £20m, because this is the only chance for them to get a decent size store in the affluent BS7 area. They already have a store in Ashton, AG would just have allowed a larger one.

[screech]

Are you saying that UWE will be giving them the land for free and all they are getting out of it is free advertising for the stadium and a bill for renting teaching space?

If that's true is it any wonder that many universities are in the shit financially, dear god, I hope they don't run economics courses there.

[The Gasbuster]

Well you obviously have no idea of how the construction industry works then, I do as I work in it

It's not top secret that Buckingham Group are the appointed main contractor

NG Bailey will be carrying out the mechanical and electrical services installation (and I do have inside information)

It's pretty standard practice in this recession for a contractor to tender a price only then to be told that if you want the project you need to reduce your price by ?? %. I'm afraid it's dog eat dog in the construction industry, and no surprise with companies operating on very low single figure margins.

This whole post is pointless IMO ...... We should be concentrating efforts on getting our own show on the road

That is ALWAYS the case mate, whether during a recession or supposed "boom".

N.G.B. are by far the best M&E in this region, and make good money in most cases from their projects, usually to the detriment of us poor subcontractors !!

[weeble]

Are you saying that UWE will be giving them the land for free and all they are getting out of it is free advertising for the stadium and a bill for renting teaching space?

If that's true is it any wonder that many universities are in the shit financially, dear god, I hope they don't run economics courses there.

UWE is one of the most financially successful universities in the country. Whatever the exact arrangement is (and I know no more about it than anyone else) you can be sure they won't be losing out overall. They see a tie up with a professional sports club which gives them access to a 21,700 seat stadium for university events and allows them to give students direct access to sports and marketing opportunities, as a massive plus that no other UK university can offer. Judging from the amount companies are willing to pay for naming rights, a ground lease seems like a fair deal for both parties.

[screech]

UWE is one of the most financially successful universities in the country. Whatever the exact arrangement is (and I know no more about it than anyone else) you can be sure they won't be losing out overall. They see a tie up with a professional sports club which gives them access to a 21,700 seat stadium for university events and allows them to give students direct access to sports and marketing opportunities, as a massive plus that no other UK university can offer. Judging from the amount companies are willing to pay for naming rights, a ground lease seems like a fair deal for both parties.

They could build student accomodation and get a better return if they had that much land to give away for nowt.

[redfred]

That is ALWAYS the case mate, whether during a recession or supposed "boom".

N.G.B. are by far the best M&E in this region, and make good money in most cases from their projects, usually to the detriment of us poor subcontractors !!

NGB used to be the most sub-contractor friendly contractor in the industry, in my experience. Sadly they have now become the worst.

[weeble]

They could build student accomodation and get a better return if they had that much land to give away for nowt.

It isn't for nothing though is it? This gives them an angle no other university has. They have naming rights for a stadium which in similar cases elsewhere is worth millions and apart from already having student accommodation on site, they still have plenty of room to build more in the future.

[slartibartfast]

you dont know what your on about, all funding is in place and has been for some time...

One thing i will say though, Nick Higgs knows about building, he may know very little about football but he knows building... So anyone saying hes trying to cut costs, is that just not what anyone building anything would do??? correct me if im wrong mind???

Thanks for amend my quote.

As always whenever you get anywhere near where we are it's because we've ****** up and NOTHING that you've done!

Enjoy another season in the basement ,twerp .

[ispep2012]

Thanks for amend my quote.

As always whenever you get anywhere near where we are it's because we've ****** up and NOTHING that you've done!

Enjoy another season in the basement ,twerp .

twerp eh,,

it may of been your quote but was my post, so ill do what i like with it really, twonk

[screech]

It isn't for nothing though is it? This gives them an angle no other university has. They have naming rights for a stadium which in similar cases elsewhere is worth millions and apart from already having student accommodation on site, they still have plenty of room to build more in the future.

So they have naming rights, it's not a big deal is it. UWE is recognised up and down the country, whether its worth millions on paper counts for nothing, they wont be getting millions in their bank account. And your point about having access to the stadium, well, yes they can but they will have to pay for that too. It would be no different to hiring out AG for example.

I really can't see any financial benefit, it seems they will have to pay for everything, unless they are getting a kick back in rent from the land or on match day.

[slartibartfast]

twerp eh,,

it may of been your quote but was my post, so ill do what i like with it really, twonk

Forgive my misplaced politeness, I should of course called you a**** !

[ernie goodthing]

I'm puzzled. A thread about the pikey gappers' stadium, (which no one here could care less about) has attracted twice as many views and twice as many replies as a thread to predict the result of today's vital match. Why?

[ispep2012]

Forgive my misplaced politeness, I should of course called you a **** !

no problem,

id love to carry on this conversation but my rabbit needs a poo and im training it..

aint you got a relegation game to talk about/attend anyway.......

[Whoops]

I'm puzzled. A thread about the pikey gappers' stadium, (which no one here could care less about) has attracted twice as many views and twice as many replies as a thread to predict the result of today's vital match. Why?

Some of us clearly do care about it.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

Some of us clearly do care about it.

I wouldn't say 'care' exactly.

Besides, as we've recently had an influx of sad Gas ******s on OTIB pretending to be City fans perhaps threads like this give them something to get their yellow and brown teeth into.

[screech]

I'm puzzled. A thread about the pikey gappers' stadium, (which no one here could care less about) has attracted twice as many views and twice as many replies as a thread to predict the result of today's vital match. Why?

Ahh well, the beauty of a forum mate. Talk about anything you wish, we are all listening.

[HoldenBall]

no problem,

id love to carry on this conversation but my rabbit needs a poo and im training it..

aint you got a relegation game to talk about/attend anyway.......

Why arn't you off to your away game?

[Nibor]

?

The point was that the sags board have a history of making funding promises and failing to deliver on them.

[BCFCBristolRed]

Who gives a s**t about the sags s**t bowlplex??!?

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

Who gives a s**t about the sags s**t bowlplex??!?

You mean 'The Poo Camp'?

[alfie]

As much as I like this thread, shouldn't you be talking about Cardiff?

[HoldenBall]

As much as I like this thread, shouldn't you be talking about Cardiff?

cardiff?.. and they are..?

[screech]

As much as I like this thread, shouldn't you be talking about Cardiff?

They don't exist anymore, they gave up their football club to an Asian dictator.

[Drew Peacock]

Nick Higgs was the FD not a builder. I suspect he knows less about construction than you think.

This sounds depressingly like standard old fashioned consruction practice. Concentrate on the input cost not the output cost. Madness.

[BS34Red]

The quoted project cost is £40m. The construction cost will be considerably lower. E.g. Brighton's ground has a project cost of £93m but a build cost (and they excavated half a hill) of £66m.

Sainsbury's annual accounts apparently show a provision of £31m for stores in the Bristol area. There will be no naming rights as it's being called the UWE Stadium, but this may be in effect a direct swap for the 125 year ground lease. Other income will be from the lease of the Sainsbury's local store at the stadium and UWE are leasing teaching space in it. There will also be a relatively small grant from the Football Trust.

The bowl construction technique (due to be used at Ashton Vale) apparently saves considerably on construction costs as no steelwork is required to prop up the seating. This may be back of the envelope calculations, but it is quite possible that there is no funding gap. Remember this is what Nick Higgs did for a living and he was very good at it.

Sainsbury's may well pay more than £20m, because this is the only chance for them to get a decent size store in the affluent BS7 area. They already have a store in Ashton, AG would just have allowed a larger one.

For you sags it may be hard to understand but you don't just pay the lower amount of the project cost and the build cost. The 40 million is what you will pay from the design stage all through to when the first ball is kicked. Projects also usually end up costing more than first anticipated.

Let's get some more things straight, Having the Sainsburys local at the stadium will bring you zero income over time. I fully expect that to be wrapped up within the sale of the mem and for which you will receive a lump payment for.

As for UWE and the teaching space etc again your NOT gonna gain a penny from. I will try to break this down for you so it's in simple terms for you to understand. UWE will give you a 125 lease on their land in return for naming rights of new stadium and for teaching space within the stadium aswell as exclusive use of the stadium for a certain amount of days per year. They are NOT gonna be leasing anything from you or give you a penny (or carrot)

It's rather simple to understand. They won't give you their land and then pay to use your facilities. That would be rather silly don't you think?

So say Sainsburys give you 25 million for the swamp, where does the other 15-20 million come from? Naming rights? Nope cos you gave them away, teaching space? Nope cos you gave them away, renting the stadium to UWE for events? Nope cos have gave them that for free, bank loan? Wouldn't leave you debt free as is claimed and not many banks are gonna lend 15-20 million to a failing business and if they did then the interest would be sky high but again you would then be in debt.

What I expect to happen is that funding gap won't be bridged and you will just build two stands at UWE from the 25 million you get from Sainsburys. You don't need 20k and won't for a long time. 20k fans in div 4 each week? Nah not realistic is it.