Thanks Steve

[reddoc]

How are you 'defining' achievement.

I'd say that given our position, the only clubs who've 'over achieved' during SL reign are Blackpool and Burnley (although I stand to be corrected) - similar sized clubs to us, had a brief spell in the top flight and - most importantly - have stayed out of administration.

But if you can clarify what you define as an achievement, I might change my position.

Thanks for that. Guess my simplistic definition of an achievement would be our one promotion assuming we built on that. Which we obviously haven't. Good financial management would be another. But that's obviously not the case. I'm just scratching around looking for them.

[Pickle Rick]

Oh no, we're not doing the IQ challenge now are we? OK you lose . That's almost certainly a fact unless you're claiming to be Madonna. Ignorance, now that's entirely possible, which is why I voiced an opinion rather than stating fact.

Still struggling to find a point to your apparent case. In a similar trend I also can't make sense of your quoted post.

Why did the other poster lose exactly? Is there a point in that I'm missing too? Gotta love otib sometimes.

[grove park city]

Nice while it lasted.

[Taunton_Red]

he is the one who sacked Gary Johnson and if he didn't sack GJ we probably wouldn't be in this mess, don't see him going to other good clubs and buying their best players, only signing rejects from other clubs on high wages, might as well as bought youngsters and gone down instead.

[Pickle Rick]

Nice while it lasted.

You mean 'delayed'

[Bristol Rob]

Thanks for that. Guess my simplistic definition of an achievement would be our one promotion assuming we built on that. Which we obviously haven't. Good financial management would be another. But that's obviously not the case. I'm just scratching around looking for them.

I see your point, but how many times have we been 90 minutes away from something? LDV and play-offs - you can't lay that at SL's door.

Reality is, of the 24 clubs in the division, 3 go up and 3 go down every year, which means that 17 are stagnant, given our resources, it was only a matter of time before we dropped, we just don't (yet) have the infrastructure to compete on an on-going basis in either of the top two divisions. Thus the investment made by SL - to try and give us a chance.

He can no longer do that, so he started cutting his cloth based on what the club can afford. Ergo, lesser players, lower salaries and sadly, relegation.

[Bristol Rob]

he is the one who sacked Gary Johnson and if he didn't sack GJ we probably wouldn't be in this mess, don't see him going to other good clubs and buying their best players, only signing rejects from other clubs on high wages, might as well as bought youngsters and gone down instead.

I was as happy as I'd ever been under the 'good times' when GJ was in charge, but I think that if he had stayed, he'd have taken us down sooner than today. In the run up to his departure, things were a mess, the players had stopped playing for him.

[Pickle Rick]

he is the one who sacked Gary Johnson and if he didn't sack GJ we probably wouldn't be in this mess, don't see him going to other good clubs and buying their best players, only signing rejects from other clubs on high wages, might as well as bought youngsters and gone down instead.

I'm gonna have to say you're looking for excuses, like the OP is trying to do.

If's and maybes in hindsight doesn't make it SL's fault.

Jesus Christ some are so fickle!

[Pickle Rick]

I see your point, but how many times have we been 90 minutes away from something? LDV and play-offs - you can't lay that at SL's door.

Reality is, of the 24 clubs in the division, 3 go up and 3 go down every year, which means that 17 are stagnant, given our resources, it was only a matter of time before we dropped, we just don't (yet) have the infrastructure to compete on an on-going basis in either of the top two divisions. Thus the investment made by SL - to try and give us a chance.

He can no longer do that, so he started cutting his cloth based on what the club can afford. Ergo, lesser players, lower salaries and sadly, relegation.

Don't try and explain to the poor lad, he still can't figure out the point he apparently made when creating the topic.

You'll only confuse reddoc!

[reddoc]

Still struggling to find a point to your apparent case. In a similar trend I also can't make sense of your quoted post.

Why did the other poster lose exactly? Is there a point in that I'm missing too? Gotta love otib sometimes.

My point is simply the fact that we've seen City spiral downwards since SL step down and hand over control to what appears to be a board with little leadership and limited resources. Even when in charge his record is patchy to say the least. I'm not thrilled with our playing staff but it's been fairly obvious for quite some time they're not good enough and therefore I'm reluctant to blame them for not beating every side put in front of them with significantly better players. It's a buck stops scenario. And of course I've no idea whether he's lost interest, because whenever I ring to ask he never returns my calls. It's an opinion. As for the other poster, call it a hunch but I I'd like to think I'm brighter than the one word insulters on here.

[Bristol Rob]

My point is simply the fact that we've seen City spiral downwards since SL step down and hand over control to what appears to be a board with little leadership and limited resources. Even when in charge his record is patchy to say the least. I'm not thrilled with our playing staff but it's been fairly obvious for quite some time they're not good enough and therefore I'm reluctant to blame them for not beating every side put in front of them with significantly better players. It's a buck stops scenario. And of course I've no idea whether he's lost interest, because whenever I ring to ask he never returns my calls. It's an opinion. As for the other poster, call it a hunch but I I'd like to think I'm brighter than the one word insulters on here.

So you don't expect the side to beat every team they face, but you want success.

The reality is, that without a manager who was able to build on some initial momentum, we've been in a state of flux and constant rebuilding. This has held us back on the pitch and contributed massively to the debt situation.

As per my earlier post, with the exception of Tins, I was encouraged by all of the appointments made - at the time they were made - with the caveat I note for KM.

Without using hindsight, assuming you were in SL's position, what would you have done?

[Pickle Rick]

My point is simply the fact that we've seen City spiral downwards since SL step down and hand over control to what appears to be a board with little leadership and limited resources. Even when in charge his record is patchy to say the least. I'm not thrilled with our playing staff but it's been fairly obvious for quite some time they're not good enough and therefore I'm reluctant to blame them for not beating every side put in front of them with significantly better players. It's a buck stops scenario. And of course I've no idea whether he's lost interest, because whenever I ring to ask he never returns my calls. It's an opinion. As for the other poster, call it a hunch but I I'd like to think I'm brighter than the one word insulters on here.

Just trying to fathom your point...

So it's SL's fault we got relegated because he stood down as chairman? Really? That's your pint after all the above posts?! And our board has little leadership?

And now you've no idea if he's lost interest as you stated as part of the purpose of a new thread you wanted to start.

Are you doing alright or are you just upset right now and cannot think straight mucker?

[ronjonred]

My point is simply the fact that we've seen City spiral downwards since SL step down and hand over control to what appears to be a board with little leadership and limited resources. Even when in charge his record is patchy to say the least. I'm not thrilled with our playing staff but it's been fairly obvious for quite some time they're not good enough and therefore I'm reluctant to blame them for not beating every side put in front of them with significantly better players. It's a buck stops scenario. And of course I've no idea whether he's lost interest, because whenever I ring to ask he never returns my calls. It's an opinion. As for the other poster, call it a hunch but I I'd like to think I'm brighter than the one word insulters on here.

Sometimes one word is all you need.

TOOL

Not a word I have had too much use for until tonight. I, like Scrumpy, obviously find it hard to take seriously someone who posts with such gusto, only to wither in the face of a counter argument.

[Pickle Rick]

Sometimes one word is all you need.

TOOL

Not a word I have had too much use for until tonight. I, like Scrumpy, obviously find it hard to take seriously someone who posts with such gusto, only to wither in the face of a counter argument.

Bravo.

And no you're not being cyber bullied, I'm just glad I'm not going mad reading some of the outrageous comments on this message board right now.

[Dibdenred]

SL has always had right intentions, but unfortunately he has trusted that to people who are as much use as a chocolate tea pot. He has unfortunately lost a lot money in process. It will take a brave man to admit defeat and restructure club from the top down. Any business is only as good as the key people. We are seriously lacking in strong board with football knowledge. Until we sort that it doesn't really matter who we have as manager.

[Bristol Rob]

SL has always had right intentions, but unfortunately he has trusted that to people who are as much use as a chocolate tea pot. He has unfortunately lost a lot money in process. It will take a brave man to admit defeat and restructure club from the top down. Any business is only as good as the key people. We are seriously lacking in strong board with football knowledge. Until we sort that it doesn't really matter who we have as manager.

I think most people acknowledge that, but what should (in your view) he have done differently, without (and this is the key point) the benefit of hindsight.

[Pickle Rick]

SL has always had right intentions, but unfortunately he has trusted that to people who are as much use as a chocolate tea pot. He has unfortunately lost a lot money in process. It will take a brave man to admit defeat and restructure club from the top down. Any business is only as good as the key people. We are seriously lacking in strong board with football knowledge. Until we sort that it doesn't really matter who we have as manager.

Not another one who's blaming SL?!

So we need a board that has strong footballing knowledge? And because of that it won't matter who's manager?

TOOL (take 2)...

All of our managers have been financially backed, more than a lot of others clubs similar to our stature. Players have been scouted and recruited.

[Bowie]

Bottom Line is - Lansdown took has eye off the ball and look where we are now.......back in league 1 with £40m of debt

Since we have come into this division, no manager has shown any long term version and the club has been run on quick fixes, barely a central defender or midfield or note has been signed since the play-off final and those that have, have been of the short term nature, Johnson blew money on crap, Coppell did similar and then walked away, Millen and McInnes tried but were out of their depth and SoD is left to pick up the pieces.

He was too busy looking at stadium plans and the golf courses of the channel islands, when the club was being run and seems to be continuing to be run by idiots,

Sexstone fell on his sword

Lansdown Jr - what the hell is this idiot with zero experience of business or life doing in charge of a football club, seriously - done little to nothing of worth at the club apart from booting out long serving club staff and give jobs to his mates.

As SoD said tonight with that pathetic music at the end - it sums things up happening at this club

Personally I feel that Lansdown has created the debt by backing idiots - write off what debt he's built up and sell the club on to someone else.

Because if Lansdown Jr is the future of Bristol City we're fcuked.

[leadman]

I think a lot of the SL bashing is harsh here.

Of the managers he appointed, the only one that looked a bit iffy (to me) was Tinnion - I can forgive the Millan appointment because I don't think he had much choice at the time (how many times can you make someone 'caretaker' without giving them the job on a perm basis? Add to that, the fact that all the money had been spent by Coppell, and KM had been through a pre-season with them, so with a limited amount of input, he had - on paper - a good chance of hitting the ground running.

I was delighted when he hired - and fired - GJ, he'd gone as far as he could, was thrilled with SC took the job and was excited to see what McInnes was going to bring to the table. Shame none of that worked out, but the appointments seemed good (to me) at the time, and as a fan, he invested and backed the managers he appointed.

Various people on the radio moaning that we've signed sub-standard players (again, seemingly SL fault) - if you employ someone to manage the side, you can't then usurp all of their decisions. You have to back them.

As for the debt, agree that it is far too large, but it is owed to one person, and that person has said countless times they aren't about to pull the plug. A new/redeveloped stadium would increase revenue and with FFP it's essential if we are to get back to, and compete in the Championship. I don't see how SL could have foreseen the village green being granted.

Yeah, he isn't without (some) blame, but to point the finger as some people appear to strikes me as 'blame culture' rather than considered.

AGREED

[Guest]

Bottom Line is - Lansdown took has eye off the ball and look where we are now.......back in league 1 with £40m of debt

Since we have come into this division, no manager has shown any long term version and the club has been run on quick fixes, barely a central defender or midfield or note has been signed since the play-off final and those that have, have been of the short term nature, Johnson blew money on crap, Coppell did similar and then walked away, Millen and McInnes tried but were out of their depth and SoD is left to pick up the pieces.

He was too busy looking at stadium plans and the golf courses of the channel islands, when the club was being run and seems to be continuing to be run by idiots,

Sexstone fell on his sword

Lansdown Jr - what the hell is this idiot with zero experience of business or life doing in charge of a football club, seriously - done little to nothing of worth at the club apart from booting out long serving club staff and give jobs to his mates.

As SoD said tonight with that pathetic music at the end - it sums things up happening at this club

Personally I feel that Lansdown has created the debt by backing idiots - write off what debt he's built up and sell the club on to someone else.

Because if Lansdown Jr is the future of Bristol City we're fcuked.

Spot on, our debt was not created by us, the players or even the managers but those who appointed those managers.

Players have been the fav scapegoats this year and over many past years, really, think back of the list of players who have been the target for many fans, then think who brought these players here, then think who brought those managers here.............got it, you have found the problem.

Problem is they`re still here.

[ispep2012]

i dont care what peope say, without sl we would not exist

ive read some ridiculous posts on here over the years, but this beats the lot...

[Guest]

ive read some ridiculous posts on here over the years, but this beats the lot...

Shock, gas fan speaks sense; we were here before and will be here after him or anyone else has been and gone.

[Pickle Rick]

He's loaning the money.

And it's tax deductable (even against the tiny amount he has to pay living in Guernsey)

He's worth 1 billion.

40 mil isn't even one years interest on that lot.

The equivalent would be a factory worker losing 500 quid over 6 years.

Youst sayin'

Pretty much right there.

The debt isn't unstable and SL isn't concerned.

But the petty will see debt and think 'crisis'.

[Monkeh]

Don't blame the players, forget our puppet board. One man lost interest and we're right back where we started . Bit of a shame for the little people who really care . Thanks.Steve

yea,

Thanks Steve for funding johnson to get us in the championship in the first place

Thanks Steve for backing the manager every season with money dispite the fact we are in debt,

Thanks steve for funding the wages of the under performing players who got us relegated this season

Thanks steve for keeping this club a float

Thanks steve for trying to build us a new ground out of your own money

Thanks steve for trying to re-devlop ashton gate out of your own mone,

You sir are a cock of the highest degree **** off back tio the rock you crawled under

[Bristol Rob]

Spot on, our debt was not created by us, the players or even the managers but those who appointed those managers.

Players have been the fav scapegoats this year and over many past years, really, think back of the list of players who have been the target for many fans, then think who brought these players here, then think who brought those managers here.............got it, you have found the problem.

Problem is they`re still here.

Indirectly the fans have created some of tbe debt;

Gates have dropped and fans have, on a near constant basis demanded that he gets his cheque book out.

If gates were consistent and expectations lower I doubt as much money would have been spent.

[bristolcity1981]

Let me clear a few things up. Gary Johnson left his position at the club unattended by brawling with Ivan sproule in the changing rooms after a away game i cant think of at the minute. SL had no choice but to sack him. SL has made costly errors which as a club are expected to foot the bill for. Everyone is praising him for paying his debt off, his mistakes. He sanctions the deal. That's why SoD is a coach not a manager. Everything goes through him. I personally will never forgive him for wasting £4million in one year on Nicky hunt & David James. Both players his signed under the nose of Steve coppell. That was partly the reason he walked. A few people on here really need to get their facts right before spouting off on here.

[Monkeh]

Let me clear a few things up. Gary Johnson left his position at the club unattended by brawling with Ivan sproule in the changing rooms after a away game i cant think of at the minute. SL had no choice but to sack him. SL has made costly errors which as a club are expected to foot the bill for. Everyone is praising him for paying his debt off, his mistakes. He sanctions the deal. That's why SoD is a coach not a manager. Everything goes through him. I personally will never forgive him for wasting £4million in one year on Nicky hunt & David James. Both players his signed under the nose of Steve coppell. That was partly the reason he walked. A few people on here really need to get their facts right before spouting off on here.

Absolute bullshit

James and hunt were both a copout signing

[bucksred]

Don't blame the players, forget our puppet board. One man lost interest and we're right back where we started . Bit of a shame for the little people who really care . Thanks.Steve

And dont forget not to thank him for a Pray off final, a Mad Stad final, one promotion and one Wembley play off final....

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

Let me clear a few things up. Gary Johnson left his position at the club unattended by brawling with Ivan sproule in the changing rooms after a away game i cant think of at the minute.

Both players his signed under the nose of Steve coppell. That was partly the reason he walked. A few people on here really need to get their facts right before spouting off on here.

The match was Plymouth iirc.

You know the full facts of why Coppell left?

Carry on then....

[TMS]

I think SL has always done what he has thought is best for the club. Yeah this season may have been poor, but lets hope he works hard in the summer to put it right.