headhunter Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Great game and a thoroughly deserved win for Wigan. Dave Whelan, Chairman of Wigan, is worth a lot less than you Steve but I bet he hasn't spent as much as you in achieving his dream. What's he done that you haven't? Probably surrounded himself off the field with people who know football (Harman, Price - what have they ever done) , not gone the extra mile when it came to key transfer decisions (Dele Adebola rather than Fraser Campbell in 2008) and made questionable managerial appointments on too many occasions GJ took us up a level but you showed him too much loyalty and 10 years down the line we're back where we started and £40m in debt. We can achieve like Wigan if we have heart & soul, something Basso insprired and you couldn't fail to notice the togetherness of players, manager and Chairman as the club that was non league not so many years ago lifted the trophy. Seeing Wigan achieve todasy made me feel there is hope for us. Splash more cash Steve, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcityman Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Scrub that, misread your sarcasm, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 3 letters f f p A Wigan will never happen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Great game and a thoroughly deserved win for Wigan. Dave Whelan, Chairman of Wigan, is worth a lot less than you Steve but I bet he hasn't spent as much as you in achieving his dream. What's he done that you haven't? Probably surrounded himself off the field with people who know football (Harman, Price - what have they ever done) , not gone the extra mile when it came to key transfer decisions (Dele Adebola rather than Fraser Campbell in 2008) and made questionable managerial appointments on too many occasions GJ took us up a level but you showed him too much loyalty and 10 years down the line we're back where we started and £40m in debt. We can achieve like Wigan if we have heart & soul, something Basso insprired and you couldn't fail to notice the togetherness of players, manager and Chairman as the club that was non league not so many years ago lifted the trophy. Seeing Wigan achieve todasy made me feel there is hope for us. Splash more cash Steve, please! Dave Whelan ex pro footballer, is that the bloke your talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Re FFP Correct me if I am wrong but is there nothing to stop SL renaming AG The Hargreaves Lansdown Stadium and the club charging, say, £10m a season for naming rights? That counts as turnover does it not so allowing a higher wage %. In addtion he could transfer his loans to shares and correct the balance sheet part of ffp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 "Showed Gary Johnson too much loyalty" You realise that if we sacked him any earlier we would have been as bad as all the other clubs out there (namely QPR, Chelsea, etc who sack their managers all the time). The only club I can think of where it has actually worked is Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 "Showed Gary Johnson too much loyalty" You realise that if we sacked him any earlier we would have been as bad as all the other clubs out there (namely QPR, Chelsea, etc who sack their managers all the time). The only club I can think of where it has actually worked is Southampton. Should have gone 12 months earlier than he actually did. I think the love in with the family might continue at some point in the future - Lee Johnson to manage City at some point in the next 10 years (Dad as chief scout no doubt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcityman Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Spent less than Lansdown! 6mil for Nzogbia, 5.5mil for Heskey to name but two, saying that probably far better value for money though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Re FFP Correct me if I am wrong but is there nothing to stop SL renaming AG The Hargreaves Lansdown Stadium and the club charging, say, £10m a season for naming rights? That counts as turnover does it not so allowing a higher wage %. In addtion he could transfer his loans to shares and correct the balance sheet part of ffp So in your initial post you bring up the 40m debt accrued and in this post you are suggesting he throws millions at the club in sponsorship to avoid FFP rules and allow us to spend more? Have I misunderstood? Apologies if I have. I'm just not quite sure what you are getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 So in your initial post you bring up the 40m debt accrued and in this post you are suggesting he throws millions at the club in sponsorship to avoid FFP rules and allow us to spend more? Have I misunderstood? Apologies if I have. I'm just not quite sure what you are getting at. I am saying if he still has the desire than do it again but this time spend the money wisely - don't take the cheap option on managerial appointments for starters (Tinnion, Millen and McInnes). Ensure player selection looks at their mindset - winners, not flakey personalities (I think SOD has already aluded to this). ps Coppell had history in terms of quitting - had he been allowed to bring Downes(Coach) and Hammond (Director of Football who handled all transfers) it could well have been a very different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider hoss rules Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Great game and a thoroughly deserved win for Wigan. Dave Whelan, Chairman of Wigan, is worth a lot less than you Steve but I bet he hasn't spent as much as you in achieving his dream. What's he done that you haven't? Probably surrounded himself off the field with people who know football (Harman, Price - what have they ever done) , not gone the extra mile when it came to key transfer decisions (Dele Adebola rather than Fraser Campbell in 2008) and made questionable managerial appointments on too many occasions GJ took us up a level but you showed him too much loyalty and 10 years down the line we're back where we started and £40m in debt. We can achieve like Wigan if we have heart & soul, something Basso insprired and you couldn't fail to notice the togetherness of players, manager and Chairman as the club that was non league not so many years ago lifted the trophy. Seeing Wigan achieve todasy made me feel there is hope for us. Splash more cash Steve, please! don't get the Basso love in all the time, he did the same as NM who got slaughtered for wanting away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcityman Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Actually Whelan has spent far in excess of Lansdown, 2012 Wigan owed Whelan 78mil, the same year DW converted 48mil of that debt to equity, players wages and administration came to 58mil, but you have to bear in mind the impact money from the premier league has because actual turnover 52mil. With sales of Nzogbia Wigan made a profit for the first time in six years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 I am saying if he still has the desire than do it again but this time spend the money wisely - don't take the cheap option on managerial appointments for starters (Tinnion, Millen and McInnes). Ensure player selection looks at their mindset - winners, not flakey personalities (I think SOD has already aluded to this). ps Coppell had history in terms of quitting - had he been allowed to bring Downes(Coach) and Hammond (Director of Football who handled all transfers) it could well have been a very different story. I'm sure the desire is there, why else pile all this money into a redeveloped AG? I don't think he looked at the Millen/McInnes appointments as the cheap option. They were just the wrong option - in hindsight. Bad decisions have cost - which you alluded to yourself initially with regards to having football people around you, not his lack if willingness to put his hand in his pocket - IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpaul Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 3 letters f f p A Wigan will never happen again Isn't that what thy said about Wimbledon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Great game and a thoroughly deserved win for Wigan. Dave Whelan, Chairman of Wigan, is worth a lot less than you Steve but I bet he hasn't spent as much as you in achieving his dream. What's he done that you haven't? Probably surrounded himself off the field with people who know football (Harman, Price - what have they ever done) , not gone the extra mile when it came to key transfer decisions (Dele Adebola rather than Fraser Campbell in 2008) and made questionable managerial appointments on too many occasions GJ took us up a level but you showed him too much loyalty and 10 years down the line we're back where we started and £40m in debt. We can achieve like Wigan if we have heart & soul, something Basso insprired and you couldn't fail to notice the togetherness of players, manager and Chairman as the club that was non league not so many years ago lifted the trophy. Seeing Wigan achieve todasy made me feel there is hope for us. Splash more cash Steve, please! Wigan wouldn't have done anything if they were still at Springfield Park. DW knew the importance of a new ground just as SL does. One club got one and progressed,one club is treading water because of a few dog walkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Wigan wouldn't have done anything if they were still at Springfield Park.DW knew the importance of a new ground just as SL does.One club got one and progressed,one club is treading water because of a few dog walkers.15 of the 23 Championship teams that finished above us last season play at the same ground as the previous 100 years, as do 12 of the 20 Premiership teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 3 letters f f p A Wigan will never happen again Mindless and stupid comment. It doesn't matter how much or how little your income is, with the RIGHT investment it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Wigan wouldn't have done anything if they were still at Springfield Park. DW knew the importance of a new ground just as SL does. One club got one and progressed,one club is treading water because of a few dog walkers. Seems about right! SL has the vision but lacks a little knowhow at a football club. The DoF decision is a massive step as now we have someone that knows football with connections at board level. Shame it took so long really though! AV is a huge element to our future much like it was at Brighton who did pretty much the same as us untill the new stadium was ready to go, now look at them (please beat Palace). We seem to have had issues with managers and players for sometime another subject that I have pontificated on before, but will brush over now. I do fundamentaly believe that we have the best team we can at the helm for the current job, with a few adjustments that need to be made to off load the McInness mess. Personally I'm not that bothered about Heaton or Nyatanga and hopefully we can off load Fontaine among others as well. SOD and KB already have a style and players in mind for next season I'm sure, its now a matter of how many of our own younger players can make the step up to first team footy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 15 of the 23 Championship teams that finished above us last season play at the same ground as the previous 100 years, as do 12 of the 20 Premier League teams. Interesting thought! Could you list them as I would like to see how many are comparible clubs to us...We know Wigan are one and Brighton are another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 3 letters f f p A Wigan will never happen again Regarding the FFP siuation soon to be coming to our screens, I have to admit not knowing much about it but, I'm sure there are ways around this. Didn't an owner recently say that he'll just increase his sponsorship to increase turnover/income? For instance any player on contract, could in theory work self employed elsewhere, as many currently do already. There is no rule stopping a player earning extra money, so in theory they can earn it from other sources. If a wealthy owner wanted to attract better players to his club, he'd only have to offer them other employment elsewhere and on the bigger wages they demanded, that's how it was done within rugby. I can see this FFP being exploited by people intent on improving their team and we'll have the old boot money scenario coming back. Some will exploit it and possibly prosper, much like swindle did, others won't and will suffer because of it. Can anyone really see it working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 I'll raise your two and raise you by two more, to begin with.Norwich. Blackpool. Charlton. QPR.All in the Premiership last few seasons as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 15 of the 23 Championship teams that finished above us last season play at the same ground as the previous 100 years, as do 12 of the 20 Premier League teams. Indeed, all England's European Champions league winners play at the same ground as they did 100 years ago. Liverpool - Anfield; Man U - Old Trafford; Nottingham Forest - City Ground; Aston Villa - Villa Park; Chelsea - Stamford Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Interesting thought! Could you list them as I would like to see how many are comparible clubs to us...We know Wigan are one and Brighton are another Watford Palace Forest Charlton Burnley brum Leeds Ipswich Blackpool Blackburn Sheff W Barnsley Peterboro Wolves All finished above us....leeds, Sheffield w, forest, brum only clubs I'd say are significantly bigger than us as clubs. The rest with the right management are easily our equals. Watford, Barnsley, Burnley, Blackpool Blackburn are all easily our equals on any day yet have expereinced Premier League Football. We never have. Bad Managament on and off the field to blame of these 5 none are clubs that have had the benefit of new expensive stadiums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Great game and a thoroughly deserved win for Wigan. Dave Whelan, Chairman of Wigan, is worth a lot less than you Steve but I bet he hasn't spent as much as you in achieving his dream. What's he done that you haven't? Probably surrounded himself off the field with people who know football (Harman, Price - what have they ever done) , not gone the extra mile when it came to key transfer decisions (Dele Adebola rather than Fraser Campbell in 2008) and made questionable managerial appointments on too many occasions GJ took us up a level but you showed him too much loyalty and 10 years down the line we're back where we started and £40m in debt. We can achieve like Wigan if we have heart & soul, something Basso insprired and you couldn't fail to notice the togetherness of players, manager and Chairman as the club that was non league not so many years ago lifted the trophy. Seeing Wigan achieve todasy made me feel there is hope for us. Splash more cash Steve, please! Dave Whelan is truely passionate about football - maybe because he was a top flight footballer in his day. Football was never a hobby with this man, it was his career and his life outside the businesses he founded via his football injury compensation money. Dave Whelan is a business and football genius and now a legend turning a bottom division football club into FA Cup holders - an amazing achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Watford, Barnsley, Burnley, Blackpool Blackburn are all easily our equals on any day yet have expereinced Premier League Football. We never have. Burnley and Blackburn easily our equals, are you really sure about that? Both clubs have been champions of England since WWII, both clubs have won the FA Cup and both have featured in multiple FA Cup finals. Both are light years ahead of us in terms of historical achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Great game and a thoroughly deserved win for Wigan. Dave Whelan, Chairman of Wigan, is worth a lot less than you Steve but I bet he hasn't spent as much as you in achieving his dream. What's he done that you haven't? Probably surrounded himself off the field with people who know football (Harman, Price - what have they ever done) , not gone the extra mile when it came to key transfer decisions (Dele Adebola rather than Fraser Campbell in 2008) and made questionable managerial appointments on too many occasions GJ took us up a level but you showed him too much loyalty and 10 years down the line we're back where we started and £40m in debt. We can achieve like Wigan if we have heart & soul, something Basso insprired and you couldn't fail to notice the togetherness of players, manager and Chairman as the club that was non league not so many years ago lifted the trophy. Seeing Wigan achieve todasy made me feel there is hope for us. Splash more cash Steve, please! I 100% agree with this. Other points I'd like to add are the following: We never should have let that ship sail in 1911. It was obvious what Saville was up to. Wigan will win the FA Cup in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Burnley and Blackburn easily our equals, are you really sure about that? Both clubs have been champions of England since WWII, both clubs have won the FA Cup and both have featured in multiple FA Cup finals. Both are light years ahead of us in terms of historical achievement. Historical. Key word. Burnley - no massive investment, just good management Blackburn - Jack Walkers Millions.....no different than Steve's Millions just good management. Both are small town clubs who have been managed correctly. Can you say that about us....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Burnley and Blackburn easily our equals, are you really sure about that? Both clubs have been champions of England since WWII, both clubs have won the FA Cup and both have featured in multiple FA Cup finals. Both are light years ahead of us in terms of historical achievement. ....indeed, Burnley and Blackburn have both won top flight championships and were also original members of the football league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Historical. Key word. Burnley - no massive investment, just good management Blackburn - Jack Walkers Millions.....no different than Steve's Millions just good management. Both are small town clubs who have been managed correctly. Can you say that about us....... May well be small town clubs, but both were founder members of the league, and history counts for an awful lot in English football. I wouldn't put us anywhere near the same bracket as either team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWRed Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Great game and a thoroughly deserved win for Wigan. Dave Whelan, Chairman of Wigan, is worth a lot less than you Steve but I bet he hasn't spent as much as you in achieving his dream. What's he done that you haven't? Probably surrounded himself off the field with people who know football (Harman, Price - what have they ever done) , not gone the extra mile when it came to key transfer decisions (Dele Adebola rather than Fraser Campbell in 2008) and made questionable managerial appointments on too many occasions GJ took us up a level but you showed him too much loyalty and 10 years down the line we're back where we started and £40m in debt. We can achieve like Wigan if we have heart & soul, something Basso insprired and you couldn't fail to notice the togetherness of players, manager and Chairman as the club that was non league not so many years ago lifted the trophy. Seeing Wigan achieve todasy made me feel there is hope for us. Splash more cash Steve, please! You have to be kidding! Splashing the cash has been the problem here! SL has been splashing his cash giving him unaccountable control over decisions, often bad decisions! Things are starting to look more promising now though, we seem to be structuring better. I would also say that Wigan's success in the prem has been in part due to very good scouting in UK and abroad...finding gems like Valencia and selling for big profit, or Moses, who was obviously more well known, for big profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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