Cowshed Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 There are more qualified coaches in the Netherlands than England. Football in that country from grass roots to the erevesdie is geared up to produce streams of players. Players of considerable quality included. The EPL does not meet the above standard. The entire country does not. Why? Primarily the FA and EPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 What's the EPL ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 What's the EPL ? English Premier League I presume. Just going back to the OP and him talking about the Man City V Newcastle game,what stunned me more than anything was the sheer lack of atmosphere during the game. Man City and Newcastle used to have real fervent supporters who really created a great atmosphere,Monday nights game at times was like a football match in front of a cricket crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 There are more qualified coaches in the Netherlands than England. Football in that country from grass roots to the erevesdie is geared up to produce streams of players. Players of considerable quality included. The EPL does not meet the above standard. The entire country does not. Why? Primarily the FA and EPL. For all it's faults, I don't think you can blame the Premier League for the quality of grass-roots football in this country; they've actually contributed significantly to coaching of children, it's just that the money disappears into the black hole that is the regional FA system- and there in lies the problem. The FA system of county authorities run by whichever old fella sticks around long enough isn't fit for purpose, but they can't get rid because everything is voted for by these representatives and any significant change would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. What we need are professionally run 'regions' with a centre of excellence in each where kids go to be taught the basics from a young age and they don't go anywhere near a professional club or a competitive game until they're a teenager. I also don't know why none of the big clubs have set up a 'Mestella(sp?)'-type football school. Regardless, the problems start at the very bottom and go to the very top in this country and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 For all it's faults, I don't think you can blame the Premier League for the quality of grass-roots football in this country; they've actually contributed significantly to coaching of children, it's just that the money disappears into the black hole that is the regional FA system- and there in lies the problem. The FA system of county authorities run by whichever old fella sticks around long enough isn't fit for purpose, but they can't get rid because everything is voted for by these representatives and any significant change would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. What we need are professionally run 'regions' with a centre of excellence in each where kids go to be taught the basics from a young age and they don't go anywhere near a professional club or a competitive game until they're a teenager. I also don't know why none of the big clubs have set up a 'Mestella(sp?)'-type football school. Regardless, the problems start at the very bottom and go to the very top in this country and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel myself The Netherlands and Spain do not rely solely on regional centres as they are not thoroughly inclusive, and accessible. The model they use is mass coaching. The Spanish attempt to provide coaching for every kid nationally. They have created a national framework of qualified and inspected coaches of tens of thousands. Coaching badges can be removed if coaches do not adhere to standards set. The Spanish model see kids being coached often for free. That would not be possible in Bristol FFS/Brazillian soccer schools costs. Bristol Community trust runs coaching at a cost, Provision for kids before nine is hardly cohesive or far reaching. In the UK the above could be financed in every town and City. This cannot happen as the EPL and FA do not want it to. The money is not disappearing into the FA because hardly any TV money is dedicated to coaching. 5% of the TV deal they have would train enough coaches to surpass Spain and put a legacy in pace for decades. I have had the opportunity to witness what occurs in the Netherlands v England and Bristol. I have had the opportunity to see what a large City like Bristol provides for kids pre academy age. I have seen what BCFC provide and Rovers. The difference was truly saddening. The EPL and FA are a disgrace as they are letting kids and the game down. The abject standard here would not be acceptable in France, Germany, Netherlands ... The blame as you say lies at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 The Netherlands and Spain do not rely solely on regional centres as they are not thoroughly inclusive, and accessible. The model they use is mass coaching. The Spanish attempt to provide coaching for every kid nationally. They have created a national framework of qualified and inspected coaches of tens of thousands. Coaching badges can be removed if coaches do not adhere to standards set. The Spanish model see kids being coached often for free. That would not be possible in Bristol FFS/Brazillian soccer schools costs. Bristol Community trust runs coaching at a cost, Provision for kids before nine is hardly cohesive or far reaching. In the UK the above could be financed in every town and City. This cannot happen as the EPL and FA do not want it to. The money is not disappearing into the FA because hardly any TV money is dedicated to coaching. 5% of the TV deal they have would train enough coaches to surpass Spain and put a legacy in pace for decades. I have had the opportunity to witness what occurs in the Netherlands v England and Bristol. I have had the opportunity to see what a large City like Bristol provides for kids pre academy age. I have seen what BCFC provide and Rovers. The difference was truly saddening. The EPL and FA are a disgrace as they are letting kids and the game down. The abject standard here would not be acceptable in France, Germany, Netherlands ... The blame as you say lies at the top. I'm not saying that the Premier League shouldn't or couldn't put more money into grass-roots coaching, but they do provide millions of pounds of funding every year, both directly and indirectly. I hate Man City, but when I lived in Manchester they were always advertising free soccer schools with coaches from the club, often in some of the most deprived areas of Manchester. The English FA is amongst the richest and most well funded football organisations in the world, but they spunk hundreds of thousands of pounds on pointless bearocracy every year. I don't so much care what model coaching children takes as I do ensuring that the archaic system of authority within the FA is broken apart and replaced with streamlined, professional decision makers. Like I said though; it's turkeys voting for christmas so we're stuck with an organisation that will hemorrhage money and continue to exist in the dark ages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 For all it's faults, I don't think you can blame the Premier League for the quality of grass-roots football in this country; they've actually contributed significantly to coaching of children, it's just that the money disappears into the black hole that is the regional FA system- and there in lies the problem. The FA system of county authorities run by whichever old fella sticks around long enough isn't fit for purpose, but they can't get rid because everything is voted for by these representatives and any significant change would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. What we need are professionally run 'regions' with a centre of excellence in each where kids go to be taught the basics from a young age and they don't go anywhere near a professional club or a competitive game until they're a teenager. I also don't know why none of the big clubs have set up a 'Mestella(sp?)'-type football school. Regardless, the problems start at the very bottom and go to the very top in this country and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel myself Spot on. Absolutely spot on. In the Weston area the Woodspring FA, which usually handles youth football in the area, decided that when the FA banned kids below under 11's from playing competitive football (it now has to be friendlies to stop your typical dinosaur YT manager playing to win before developing) that they wanted no part in it. Thankfully, through the Somerset FA and the cooperation of local youth teams there has been a new league body set up which we hope wont go down such a route. There is going to be a representative side from a selection of all the teams and that might be a good thing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I'm not saying that the Premier League shouldn't or couldn't put more money into grass-roots coaching, but they do provide millions of pounds of funding every year, both directly and indirectly. I hate Man City, but when I lived in Manchester they were always advertising free soccer schools with coaches from the club, often in some of the most deprived areas of Manchester. The English FA is amongst the richest and most well funded football organisations in the world, but they spunk hundreds of thousands of pounds on pointless bearocracy every year. I don't so much care what model coaching children takes as I do ensuring that the archaic system of authority within the FA is broken apart and replaced with streamlined, professional decision makers. Like I said though; it's turkeys voting for christmas so we're stuck with an organisation that will hemorrhage money and continue to exist in the dark ages The EPL drips a tiny amount of money into coaching at grass roots level. It is not even 1% of their income. More, far more will go towards one club's parachute payment for four years In the same period. The EPL is the richest league in the world and in unison with the FA should be able to rival coaching frameworks in Europe. The FA have to kneel down to the EPL, they are not its rulers. The premier league now controls much of football the Elite player programme was created by the top divisions, but has it shut academies down. City's academy status has improved, but the structure beneath it is poor. That national problem cannot be improved without the top clubs and their league deciding it must occur. Right across the country one to one coaching from an early age needs to be free and readily available as it is in the Netherlands. Coaches need to adhere to national standards e.g Spain. Where is the free coaching in Bristol? How many hours a week is it? What standards are in place? I have looked. I recently saw "coaching" here from one of our professional clubs where very young kids were allowed to smash the ball up a court. National standards should be in place to stop that everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 The EPL drips a tiny amount of money into coaching at grass roots level. It is not even 1% of their income. More, far more will go towards one club's parachute payment for four years In the same period. The EPL is the richest league in the world and in unison with the FA should be able to rival coaching frameworks in Europe. The FA have to kneel down to the EPL, they are not its rulers. The premier league now controls much of football the Elite player programme was created by the top divisions, but has it shut academies down. City's academy status has improved, but the structure beneath it is poor. That national problem cannot be improved without the top clubs and their league deciding it must occur. Right across the country one to one coaching from an early age needs to be free and readily available as it is in the Netherlands. Coaches need to adhere to national standards e.g Spain. Where is the free coaching in Bristol? How many hours a week is it? What standards are in place? I have looked. I recently saw "coaching" here from one of our professional clubs where very young kids were allowed to smash the ball up a court. National standards should be in place to stop that everywhere. That's not what I'm saying. Of course the Premier League could give more money; that can be applied to any aspect of football, it's the richest league in the world. However, it's kind of like criticising a billionaire for only giving £10million to charity; he could afford more but it makes a hell of alot more difference than any amount of money I could give. It's not the Premier League's responsibility to ensure the quality of grass-roots coaching, though you would think they would have a vested interest in ensuring it's widely available and of the highest quality. The FA turns over hundreds of millions of pounds every year- a large proportion of which is derived from the Premier League. It's for the FA to organise coaching and to ensure it is of the highest standard and they just don't measure up and they never will whilst being run by dinosaurs. Even if we presume that individual Premier League clubs have a moral duty to coach kids in their area, how would that help Bristol? Or Sheffield, where I live? The only organisation that reaches across the bredth of the country is the FA and it's their responsibility; not the Premier League. I don't suppose the Ere Divisie, Bundesliga or La Liga has national responsibility for coaching standards in every municipality in every part of their respective countries; that's the realm of the FA or the government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 That's not what I'm saying. Of course the Premier League could give more money; that can be applied to any aspect of football, it's the richest league in the world. However, it's kind of like criticising a billionaire for only giving £10million to charity; he could afford more but it makes a hell of alot more difference than any amount of money I could give. It's not the Premier League's responsibility to ensure the quality of grass-roots coaching, though you would think they would have a vested interest in ensuring it's widely available and of the highest quality. The FA turns over hundreds of millions of pounds every year- a large proportion of which is derived from the Premier League. It's for the FA to organise coaching and to ensure it is of the highest standard and they just don't measure up and they never will whilst being run by dinosaurs. Even if we presume that individual Premier League clubs have a moral duty to coach kids in their area, how would that help Bristol? Or Sheffield, where I live? The only organisation that reaches across the bredth of the country is the FA and it's their responsibility; not the Premier League. I don't suppose the Ere Divisie, Bundesliga or La Liga has national responsibility for coaching standards in every municipality in every part of their respective countries; that's the realm of the FA or the government I understand what you are saying, but without involvement of the top club's anything the FA do will be not be far reaching enough. Clubs in the Netherlands have made coaching of Kids a responsibility. The attitude is utterly different. German club's again have a sense of responsibility. Some see it as a badge of honour running huge networks of kids teams. In Spain the FA have national standards set with its top division and yes those standards reach everywhere. The French FA were advised by their own government to improve. The EPL here has become omnipotent and damaging it dictates to the FA how academies, and the FA national centre will be run as well as bullying the football league. If it had any morals yes it would be committed to the kids of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Done some research. The avarege of the amount of English in all premier league first team squads is 1/3. The lowest being Arsenal with only 16% of the first team English. And the joint highest are Hull and Norwich with 48% of the first team squad English Could that be because Hull & Norwich have the least amount of money available? Thus they develop their own talent rather than splash the cash on known talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Is it any wonder that some kids have taken to supporting Barcelona (the real one). If you're going to support a team of foreigners, why not choose the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 When Man City can afford to spend £100m on foreign players in the summer ( and Spurs are not going to be far behind them), what incentive do they have for developing young British lads at grass roots level? While ffp is designed to reign in profligate spending and might be on the horizon,. who else has my cynical feeling that the top clubs will find ways to circumvent the financial rules so they can pretty well carry on as before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloggie Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 and where's George (your mayor with the red trousers - how did he ever get elected??) in all of this?? spending more money on hair-brained schemes no doubt..... I live in a town of just over 16,000 people in the Netherlands where the local council has spent more than two million euros on three artificial pitches, lighting for these and one of the three other grass pitches, and an expansion to 18 changing rooms.....and all of this dedicated to football only. The club plays 6 levels below the level played by PSV in Eindhoven..... this also keeps more than 1200 people occupied - mainly kids who mostly train twice and play once per week....and by the way, keeping them busy and tiring them out also keeps street crime down! So George.....what are you doing to help the situation???? or does this make too much sense for local politicians to handle...????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 21, 2013 Admin Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I've just watched the Monday Night Football on Sky and was saddened to note there was just THREE English players in the starting 22. Is it any wonder that our national team struggles in the international arena? Surely the Premier League can no longer be called "English Football"? It is simply football which happens to be played in England with English clubs! What is happening to OUR game? Ahh - reading Rio Ferdinand's tweets too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Ahh - reading Rio Ferdinand's tweets too! Sorry - I don't do Twitter - what did he say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledinwatford Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 He clearly knows his stuff but what that stuff is is hard to tell. I can hardly understand a word the bloke says. Sky+ it then play it back real slow. Lowers the level and you can understand about one word in four...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 21, 2013 Admin Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Sorry - I don't do Twitter - what did he say?similar to what you said @rioferdy5: Shame that only 3 players on show tonight were English....doesn't bode well for the future of our national team that..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Er, okay then some had played abroad though, which was my point Zambrotta, Materazzi, Gattuso, Camoranesi, had all played or come from abroad originally and all played in the final of that world cup, so made a contribution to it. The French team they faced had pretty much a team full of players who had played elsewhere as well. Think you can add De Sanctis & Perotta. Perotta may have played and was at Southampton as a kid Guiseppe Rossi too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 and where's George (your mayor with the red trousers - how did he ever get elected??) in all of this?? spending more money on hair-brained schemes no doubt..... I live in a town of just over 16,000 people in the Netherlands where the local council has spent more than two million euros on three artificial pitches, lighting for these and one of the three other grass pitches, and an expansion to 18 changing rooms.....and all of this dedicated to football only. The club plays 6 levels below the level played by PSV in Eindhoven..... this also keeps more than 1200 people occupied - mainly kids who mostly train twice and play once per week....and by the way, keeping them busy and tiring them out alnso keeps street crime down! So George.....what are you doing to help the situation???? or does this make too much sense for local politicians to handle...????? That needs to be national responsibility. From schools to club's to FA/EPL. I would look there at BCFC and its governing bodies from football. Ashton Park and the rest could be used as part of a framework of coaching. Ashton boys are out there outside the ground ... BCFC could have been out there this summer holiday running courses for kids. A simple improvement to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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