"mk Dons Our Benchmark" Sod Post Match

[bucksred]

Get the penalty or Baldock taps in after JETs shot and we wouldn't have been holding on. Game could have gone either way at the end.

Keyword, COULD have, MK finished a lot stronger. Had Wynter come on earlier and Pack, I think that could have been our game. Also wonder why Reid and not Elliott was hoicked. Would have taken JET off earlier n all cos that was his worst game for City Ive seen.

[cityboy]

There is going to be an awful lot of people with egg on their faces (including O'Driscoll), if teams like MK Dons and Bradford AREN'T in the top six come May.

Bradford won't be anywhere near the top six. MK likely will be though.

[Jordan Tansley]

Great post from Bucks Red - like me he was there and tells it as it is.

Oh by the way Jordan Tansley, I may be a clown but you ,sir, are a T***er!

If you say so petal. The fact you don't even understand the context of O'Driscoll's quote sums you up completely.

Still, a bristolian raping my eyes (or ears) with incoherent babble is nothing new.

[Port Said Red]

me n Mrs Bucks were there yesterday. City made a very ordinary MK Mongs look good. Their passing game was streets ahead of our game. They passed, we didnt. They chased us down when we had the ball, we didnt. We hoofed it every chance, they didnt. Both of our goals, although well worked and taken came against the run of play at the time. Karl robinson was up on his feet shouting and organizing all game. Like Wonderson, SOD likes watching, rather than ranting. Even his asistant wasnt going mad, in contrast to Tinman (if it was him?) who was goin garrity on occasion. We could all see it wasnt working so why were the subs done so late (1 deep into injury time What the **** was the point of that??????????)

If this was an end of era Wonderson, or GJ, or Tinman, Millen or McInnes managed team, there would be mass posts on here calling for the head of...

I realise things have to be rebuilt, but yesterdays performance wasnt good despite only having one of the godawful underperforming team of recent years starting, and the other on t'bench, and seven new players.Anyone with illusions of promotion/pray offs should place them on hold tll next year, cos although good in spells, was much more reminiscent of last season. We really do have to get stuck in and prevent other teams from keeping possession...they will score if we dont, which was our problem yesterday, bar young Reid who was easily our best player, noone else was consistently doing this. Reid in contrast read things well, anticipated where players/ball were gonna be very well, and wasnt afraid to get stuck in.

If we have more like Reid, and Baldock who did very well n all, we'll be ok.

Hey Bucks (hope you're well?), the point still is that to play a passing game there has to be an understanding of how that is achieved. Look at Swansea, they have built the ethos throughout all levels of their club, so that any players coming in can slot in seamlessly. I bow to your knowledge of the performance yesterday, which sounds disappointing, but I would guess that one of the keys to getting the players to play that way is to get success in that style. I would hope that a win or two would start to see the players have more confidence in a playing style that can look very poor when badly executed.

[cider-manc]

I swear I watch a different game to everyone else.... I thought the first half was a very professional away team performance. And felt we held onto the ball well and limited their chances as well as getting our noses in front.

Second half they were going to come out guns ablazing (they obviously took a slating in the dressing room as they were out at least 5 mins earlier than city) if we had held on a little longer I think we would have nulified them. As it was a very good goal undid us.

Fact is from there either team could have won, perhaps us more so as we had a nailed on penalty waved away and Sammy should of had a hat trick.

I really think that not many teams will take points from stadium Mk this season.

[GoingUp]

How long has the MK manager had to build his team? how long has our manager had??

Seriously, take a while to think about it.

Or are you actually unable to have a realistic view of things? What is it with the modern football fan, they want everything now,now,now.

A new manager needs time to build a side to play the way he wants to.

Or shall we just change our manager every 6 months, if he doesn't have instant success.

[RedZoneJim]

Keyword, COULD have, MK finished a lot stronger. Had Wynter come on earlier and Pack, I think that could have been our game. Also wonder why Reid and not Elliott was hoicked. Would have taken JET off earlier n all cos that was his worst game for City Ive seen.

Elliott would have been kept on for his heading at corners at both ends and why take off JET when he is the only player we've got that can make something out of nothing? Might not have been his best game but he still forced the keeper into a couple of saves and Baldock should've scored from the rebound from one. Only takes one moment of genius in an otherwise poor game and he's won us the game. Ok it didn't happen but with him on the pitch there's always that chance.

[GoingUp]

This is Robinson 4th season in charge of MK Dons.wouldnt mind having a bet that SoD will be hounded out by us if we aren't promoted in the next 3 seasons.

[RedZoneJim]

This is Robinson 4th season in charge of MK Dons.wouldnt mind having a bet that SoD will be hounded out by us if we aren't promoted in the next 3 weeks.

Edited for you.

[Portland Bill]

Lurking in the background we've got £40 millions of debt and we're fielding a team of kids that - so far - haven't won in the third tier of English football. To me that's a 1981 scenario, this time around the club is owned by a $dollar billionaire and Steve Lansdown is the only real difference that I can see from now compared to 1981.

How about, the club nearly folding,getting stuffed every week,crowds of 4,000,no money,no decent players.

That's what you call bad, but..... The fans who went got 100% behind the team and we turned it round. We didn't give up ( unlike loads of the 2013 so called supporters) and we turned it round.

In 1981 I was proud to support my team,in 2013 I find a lot of our supporters on here embarrassing.

Moaning and throwing there toys out of the pram just because we only got a draw at MK.

[headhunter]

How about, the club nearly folding,getting stuffed every week,crowds of 4,000,no money,no decent players.

That's what you call bad, but..... The fans who went got 100% behind the team and we turned it round. We didn't give up ( unlike loads of the 2013 so called supporters) and we turned it round.

In 1981 I was proud to support my team,in 2013 I find a lot of our supporters on here embarrassing.

Moaning and throwing there toys out of the pram just because we only got a draw at MK.

I was there in 1981 too and in Jan 82 at the Newport game which could have been City's LAST EVER GAME.

Myself and others who seem to be being berated on here for not giving SOD time are as frustrated as *uck with a decline that really began in the Jan 08 with the lack of action in that transfer window.

I have seen too many of my friends from the Dicks era and before who've just decided they have had enough.

I go to the games, I am entitled to my opinion as is everybody and if it all comes good then great.

[RiverRed]

Lurking in the background we've got £40 millions of debt and we're fielding a team of kids that - so far - haven't won in the third tier of English football. To me that's a 1981 scenario, this time around the club is owned by a $dollar billionaire and Steve Lansdown is the only real difference that I can see from now compared to 1981.

A pretty big difference if you ask me!

[RedZepperin]

I don't for one - what is he trying to do?

Based on his interviews, I would say he is trying to:

a) Intimidate journalists;

b) Talk very, very quietly; and

c) Some other stuff I'm unable to hear.

[SecretSam]

Bucksred - one final point, isn't it nice to have a game we could virtually walk to?

[Major Isewater]

Elliott would have been kept on for his heading at corners at both ends and why take off JET when he is the only player we've got that can make something out of nothing? Might not have been his best game but he still forced the keeper into a couple of saves and Baldock should've scored from the rebound from one. Only takes one moment of genius in an otherwise poor game and he's won us the game. Ok it didn't happen but with him on the pitch there's always that chance.

To save him for Palace.Apparently not his best game and so he does n't get injured or sent off.

Gives the oppos something différent to think about ,they obviously all know what Jet CAN do and would have to change their game plan when hé went off.Can cause enough moments of indecision that we could have profited from.

[Portland Bill]

I was there in 1981 too and in Jan 82 at the Newport game which could have been City's LAST EVER GAME.

Myself and others who seem to be being berated on here for not giving SOD time are as frustrated as *uck with a decline that really began in the Jan 08 with the lack of action in that transfer window.

I have seen too many of my friends from the Dicks era and before who've just decided they have had enough.

I go to the games, I am entitled to my opinion as is everybody and if it all comes good then great.

I was also at Newport and also at AG when we were 92nd in the Football league ( bottom of the 4th Division).

So for anyone to try and tell me that we are having bad times at the moment I will laugh at them.

You mention the Dicks era,it took him several years to gel a team and do what he did, S'OD has to go through that process.

But for some reason some on here just don't understand that.

[simon uk]

I am pretty confident in SOD, and he has done a good job in ridding us of many of last seasons deadwood (though expired contracts are the main reason for that). It is obvious to anyone that it will take a good few months for the team to start to gel, because a lot of the players are new and young. What I would say however is that the 2 full backs were both here last year, and a lot of money has been spent on the new first ball centre back, and an established championship goalkeeper has been signed, and still, we are no closer to an organised defence than we have been for the last 2 years.

Tactics, formations, styles of play are all talked about, but if you are in league 1, an organised defence should be a pre-requisite, and the amount of goals we are conceding is rediculous.

[Port Said Red]

You mention the Dicks era,it took him several years to gel a team and do what he did, S'OD has to go through that process.

But for some reason some on here just don't understand that.

made this precise point to someone the other day, the reason I stopped going down after the McInnes sacking was because I felt like yet another "4 year plan" was being thrown out the window. When I was asked what would be bring me back I said, it would be if I saw SOD, struggle, get the fans on his back (as they did with Dicks, which people forget) but the board would have the strength of their convictions in the way Harry Dolman did. It can't be a coincidence that our longest serving manager was also our most successful.

[O'Garlandinho]

Gotta say i do like SO'Ds post match honest assessments, even though i don't think we should be looking at a club like MK Dons as a benchmark! I understand what he means in terms of their team and performances, but overall the term benchmark was used incorrectly. As always repeated on most football forums, Swansea are the classic benchmark over the last few years.

As i said, i much prefer his interviews after comparing to Mcinnes.

Even after the most shocking performances from a city team in the last few years, and usually convincingly beaten, Mcinnes would come out with a very good post-match interview that always gave fans hope. He was a great talker, but a very sh!t manager! Now i see he's doing the same at Aberdeen, the fans and press up there are expecting a 2nd place finish after Mcinnes's own hyping up of himself and his team, but after a bad loss for them on saturday, the same pattern looks to emerge.

Overall, Mcinnes should get a salesman job because he would be brilliant and earn himself some decent commission, whereas O'Driscolls honest assessments are exactly what city fans need!

[Aizoon]

It took Dicks nearly 10 years to get promotion after seeing the youth team and young players progress to the first team- now thats patience.

+1

And you tell that to kids today...

[RedZoneJim]

Gotta say i do like SO'Ds post match honest assessments, even though i don't think we should be looking at a club like MK Dons as a benchmark! I understand what he means in terms of their team and performances, but overall the term benchmark was used incorrectly. As always repeated on most football forums, Swansea are the classic benchmark over the last few years.

I've watched the interview again and I still think he's talking about their style of play not the whole club being the benchmark? SOD wants a passing team and that's what they do well, which is why our team was set-up to combat that on Saturday rather than try to play them at their own game when we're nowhere near as good as them at it yet.

[alexanl1]

Sick to death of some of the fans on here. Pray to god that SOD doesn't read this forum as it would just be an embarrassment to us if he thought that this is how most city fans think. There's a few of you on here that demand success now and for some reason believe city are a bigger club than they actually are.

[Aizoon]

Not forgetting that we were in the Championship (or 2nd Division) for 11 or 12 continuous years before that promotion with no playoffs to maintain interest....

It would be nice for it to be that boring again.

13 actually. Before we got promoted we were the only team that had stayed in that division for that long.

[AshtonGreat]

So'D doesn't have to follow this drawn out cycle of failure that has to be some mammoth over dramatisation to get things sorted. I really can't understandthe mind set of fans who think that we have to deal with this magnum opus of rubbish in order to get to where we are going. No other clubs seemingly have to be put through these torturous self defeating we must pay a penitence for our sins rubbish. So why do we glibly accept this is what must be done and then agree that is going to take 'forever' to do?

Change, proper change can be enacted efficiently, quickly and easily without the over blown theatrics. It's also alot easier to do as well. We arent dealing with rocket science, after all

Excellent post

[RedZoneJim]

So'D doesn't have to follow this drawn out cycle of failure that has to be some mammoth over dramatisation to get things sorted. I really can't understandthe mind set of fans who think that we have to deal with this magnum opus of rubbish in order to get to where we are going. No other clubs seemingly have to be put through these torturous self defeating we must pay a penitence for our sins rubbish. So why do we glibly accept this is what must be done and then agree that is going to take 'forever' to do?

Change, proper change can be enacted efficiently, quickly and easily without the over blown theatrics. It's also alot easier to do as well. We arent dealing with rocket science, after all

Likewise change can also take a significant amount of time and every case is totally unique. Change often happens quickly if there is a major change in leadership at the very top, unless I've missed something the club's still being run by the same people who just want to do things differently now. Evolution not revolution and all that.

If you think changing the mindset of the club from top to bottom can be an overnight job, while trying to blood a team including some very inexperienced young players and expecting them to be at the top of the league all season, is so easy why don't you send in your CV to Jon Lansdown and let him know just how much more effective you would be at running the club, seeming as everybody else connected to it is ballsing it up so much according to you because you haven't seen immediate results for a long-term project that we're currently only a couple of months in to!

We aren't dealing with rocket science, it's more complicated than that, it's people and people can be very stuck in their ways and resistant to change.

[RedZoneJim]

Should not take forever to implement and results in terms of player progress tactical development should be demonstrable very quickly..

No it shouldn't but it's also not going to take two months, and there's a massive difference between tactical development and players actually having the ability, experience and maturity to do what they're being asked to do even if they understand, and that's all about the individual.

Did you watch SOD's YouTube interview yesterday? He said the young players have to learn quickly otherwise they become a liability so he is obviously seeing the same things we all are but we've all been crying out for the last few seasons that we want young, hungry players, now we've got them some people can't stand the wait for them to actually improve and want to see the results now. It makes no sense to me.

The whole middle section of your reply is what happens in every football club around the world every day, like you say it's not rocket science, but you talk about changing psyche and behaviour as if it's as simple as telling someone once and they won't do it again. Football ain't like that. Real life ain't like that! If it was that easy smokers would be able to stop smoking, alcoholics would be able to stop boozing, serial shaggers would be able to stop putting it about just like that, but habits aren't easy to break and behaviours aren't easy to change.

Sorry to bring his name up again but Fontaine's the best example of this, he's made the same mistakes how many times? I'm bloody sure every day in training they work on him not making those mistakes but in the pressure of a match he reverts to type, but SOD can't come out and say that can he, or anything else specific like that about players, because he has to protect his players and keep them onside. Criticising them publicly doesn't help anyone.

I do get where you're coming from but it's just so over simplistic and doesn't take into account how people, especially young footballers, really are.

[dezgimed]

Not been to a match yet as been on hol/away etc, but so far after every match everyone has said 'we won't player a better team all season'.

So top 6 will include Wolves, Bradford, Coventry and MK Dons then hopefully.

[RedZoneJim]

And there's the submissive in the first part of your opening sentence. He and his staff have 8 months nearly to put the basics in place which should have been sorted from day one in the job irrespective of which division we were in and irrespective of the headcoach, it's basic stuff.

I did watch the interview, it was exasperating and self defeating. Remember approximately half of Saturday's Squad were here last season and we have had nearly 3 months of some of the new players, plus whatever skills they bring to the mix and can be shared ( iirc the players still here came back mid end of June and have had specialist coaching away in whatever the place was called to get things up to speed. Fixture lists have been out since then and scouting friendlies preseason and early games to know who was where and what should have been completed as well) and yet there is no improvement (in the 8 months) indeed in some there has been regression since the beginning as opposed to moving on and some of the players should be in their 'prime'. However this seems to be accepted as part of the 'drama' when it can be resolved. as per my original post.

I can argue the other side of this til I'm blue in the face as your argument has so many gaping holes but frankly I can't be arsed. You've made your mind up, I've made my mind up and neither is going to be swayed.

[!james]

I think RalphMilnesLeftFoot is to Sean O'Driscoll what RobboRed was to Gary Johnson...

[RedZoneJim]

There is no 'argument' it's a point of view that doesn't agree with your own. The difference is I don't want to sit back and hope that things come good on the off chance and put layer upon layer of excuses and hype and drama as to why things cannot be done or we have to be passive to this imaginary juggernaut, when it's a misnomer.

In your opinion at the moment. I don't think there's anything 'off chance' about what's happening at the moment, everything seems to be being more thought out than it has done for years. Not every reason is an excuse, sometimes it can be a genuine explanation. I know it's hard to grasp that when we've had so many years of it but this does feel different to me. If the results of that don't come quickly enough for people like you don't mean what the club's trying to do is wrong. They need to stick with it and show some bollocks inspite of people like you.