"mk Dons Our Benchmark" Sod Post Match

[downendcity]

How so? Please explain, because that comparison doesnt even tally

Ralph,

To be fair, I can see why the comparison could be made, but I also think there is a crucial reason why it is probably unfair.

RR had an entrenched position about GJ's ability, which I think was based on very personal issues, and which he refused the change even as we were walking up Wembley way within 90 minutes of the premier league.

I can quite understand why fans such as you are sceptical, given the catalogue of failure we've had to endure since GJ's hayday and our run of league results stretching into last season. What I think many fans struggle with is your apparent belief that the sea change the club has made since the end of last season (on and off the pitch) is something that can be slotted in place in next to no time. I remember when the club announced the change in philosophy it was undertaking and then SOD explained how this would change the footballing philosophy - bringing in young, hungry but inexperienced players and getting them playing football the right way- you commented that you had heard it all before and wanted more than rhetoric.

We might have heard it all before, but I think the majority of fans would agree that this is the first time we believe that everyone at the club is fully behind the change and is committed to the plan long term. Also, at the time when SOD first outlined his plan for the playing side of the club, it could be nothing more than rhetoric. Since then I think his transfer strategy, the players he has bought in and playing some of the club's up and coming players seems to bear out that is putting the plan into action - so a bit more than rhetoric. On a similar basis, while there are still issues out on the pitch, not the least being the need to tighten the defence, most seem to agree that we are trying to play better football - not always succeeding, but trying.

Of course we are in a results orientated business, and many fans will always judge the manager and his plan by results, but SOD has been at pains to ask fans to keep their expectations realistic. This I think is where there will be differences of opinion, as the sceptics will quickly point to results in the short term as proof that their scepticism is justified, but those fans that have wanted the club to change for some time now, are prepared to be more patient and willing to accept that things might be a bit rocky in the short term, but that we have to go through this to get the long term benefits.

Where I think you are different from RR is that RR was never prepared to credit GJ for achieving anything at the club, and would have preferred for him to have failed completely. Although I am sure he would deny it, I think his feud with GJ was such that he would have wanted GJ to fail even it meant the club's relegation just so he could tell us all " I told you so".

I reckon that you want the club and SOD to succeed. To be financially sustainable, not spending ridiculous amounts of money on players, having a squad of young players, playing good attractive football and wanting to do well for the club and themselves so that when we get to the championship, we are better placed, both financially and out on the pitch, to be competitive. If these things are achieved, then I think you would be prepared to credit the club and SOD for seeing the plan through.

At the moment I think you still doubt SOD's ability to turn his plan into complete reality, so until results match your expectation, I suspect that you will remain a critical thorn in his side and will continue to argue any counter argument to your posts.

[GrahamC]

I think RalphMilnesLeftFoot is to Sean O'Driscoll what RobboRed was to Gary Johnson...

What I don't understand is why anyone bothers to reply to him.

He will then simply repeat his argument as before and it will just go on ad nauseam.

Apart from seemingly now having a disciple in Ashton Great nothing much has changed.

I put him on ignore years ago (and gave up reading him) but unfortunately when anyone replies to him you get to see his factually incorrect, repetitve posts.

[Kid in the Riot]

What I don't understand is why anyone bothers to reply to him.

He will then simply repeat his argument as before and it will just go on ad nauseam.

Apart from seemingly now having a disciple in Ashton Great nothing much has changed.

I put him on ignore years ago (and gave up reading him) but unfortunately when anyone replies to him you get to see his factually incorrect, repetitve posts.

Well said

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

What I don't understand is why anyone bothers to reply to him.

He will then simply repeat his argument as before and it will just go on ad nauseam.

Apart from seemingly now having a disciple in Ashton Great nothing much has changed.

I put him on ignore years ago (and gave up reading him) but unfortunately when anyone replies to him you get to see his factually incorrect, repetitve posts.

Ahem, yes. Sorry. I fell into this trap myself, couple of days ago. Still new to this forum shenanigans. And a bit slow-on-the-uptake, in my doddery dotage. Not as sharp and on-the-money as I was, back in the day. Like when I agreed to paying wages to Ralphie himself, before Sir Ferg took him off us. What a bit of business that was. Anyway, sorry, I'll try and leave Ralph in his gloomy despair. Think he's happier there (he won't reply to this, will he?)

[AshtonGreat]

What I don't understand is why anyone bothers to reply to him.

He will then simply repeat his argument as before and it will just go on ad nauseam.

Apart from seemingly now having a disciple in Ashton Great nothing much has changed.

I put him on ignore years ago (and gave up reading him) but unfortunately when anyone replies to him you get to see his factually incorrect, repetitve posts.

Yeah, God forbid anyone would have a different opinion to yours.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Absolutely, Ralph, more than one way to skin a cat. Different ways of looking at things. No problem with that. Like I said the other day, though, none of us KNOW which way this will go, it is all guesswork and hunches. Myself and many others are prepared to give SOd a good go, again, without knowing if he will get things right. An atmosphere of trust and support around the place is more likely to see the team and manager produce their best, than one of doubt and indifference. As I see it. There is a place for questioning and criticism, of course, but here we would disagree over timescales and when it is right to start to question the manager's performance. If us hopefuls are sleepwalking into permitting a continued slide, maybe we are. But all we can do, in the end, in that case is harangue the manager, call for his head, get on his back. And this creates a self-defeating, poisonous atmosphere, a cutting your nose to spite your face situation. In which it becomes ever more difficult for everyone to produce their best. And we have a young team. With friends like this.....

Not for nothing are we called, supporters.

Glad you are not gloomy, or in despair. Your views just clashed with my experience of the first few games, which saw excellent crowds and a sense of possibility about the place.

In the end, can we best influence our club through full-blooded (even if possibly misguided) support, or through doubt and questioning?

The former just feels a whole lot better to me.

[SimplyRed]

So'D doesn't have to follow this drawn out cycle of failure that has to be some mammoth over dramatisation to get things sorted. I really can't understandthe mind set of fans who think that we have to deal with this magnum opus of rubbish in order to get to where we are going. No other clubs seemingly have to be put through these torturous self defeating we must pay a penitence for our sins rubbish. So why do we glibly accept this is what must be done and then agree that is going to take 'forever' to do?

Change, proper change can be enacted efficiently, quickly and easily without the over blown theatrics. It's also alot easier to do as well. We arent dealing with rocket science, after all

Indeed. Succinctly put.

Let's not forget that clubs like Norwich, and Southampton were in League One a couple of years back, and got it together sufficiently to march straight back to the Premier League.

These clubs are by no means "big clubs", as so many on here get hung up about. All it requires is astute management - sadly, something we have lacked since Dicks' time.

For all of those wringing their hands with anxiety about Lansdown taking offence at criticism on here, nobody can deny that, while this man has pumped money into the club, it has all gone to waste and we now find ourselves in his back pocket, and back where we started from, but with a £40m debt around our necks. For me, seriously poor management.

[Briz]

We should be aiming to be like Swansea or Southampton, not MK Dons in 5 years

[Kibs]

Indeed. Succinctly put.

Let's not forget that clubs like Norwich, and Southampton were in League One a couple of years back, and got it together sufficiently to march straight back to the Premier League.

These clubs are by no means "big clubs", as so many on here get hung up about. All it requires is astute management - sadly, something we have lacked since Dicks' time.

For all of those wringing their hands with anxiety about Lansdown taking offence at criticism on here, nobody can deny that, while this man has pumped money into the club, it has all gone to waste and we now find ourselves in his back pocket, and back where we started from, but with a £40m debt around our necks. For me, seriously poor management.

Interesting you mention Dicks as an example, how did his first few years as City manager go? - Genuine question as it was before my time but I was under the impression that to begin with, it was largely a struggle to stay in the division.

[SimplyRed]

Interesting you mention Dicks as an example, how did his first few years as City manager go? - Genuine question as it was before my time but I was under the impression that to begin with, it was largely a struggle to stay in the division.

Well, the fact that Dicks lasted 13 years or so, must say something. Long serving managers seem to be the exception these days, but I think that is as much to do with the money in the game as it is with the onset of the internet and the abiility of fans to vent their spleen in Fans' Forums.

You can read about all this on the OS, but Dicks took 9 years to get us up to Div.1 and he left just after we were relegated back to Div.2. He finished his first season, the year after John Atyeo retired in 19th place in Div.2.

From there, he made steady progress up the table, apart from 2 "off" seasons when we finished 19th and 16th (70/71 and 73/74). In the 3 seasons prior to the promotion season, we finished 5th, 19th, 5th.

Dicks was responsible for many of the signings which later graced our div 1 side: Cheeseley, Gow, Richie, Mann, Sweeney, Drysdale. He was also instrumental in bringing through City youngsters Keith Fear, Clive Whitehead, Gary Collier and Geoff Merrick.

One of the unsung heroes of Dicks' regime was Ken Wimshurst, who Dicks signed and who was a decent half back for the club until 1972, when he became assistant coach to John Sillett and, eventually, chief coach in 1974 when Sillett left. He should be credited with helping City achieve the top tier status.

[Kibs]

Well, the fact that Dicks lasted 13 years or so, must say something. Long serving managers seem to be the exception these days, but I think that is as much to do with the money in the game as it is with the onset of the internet and the abiility of fans to vent their spleen in Fans' Forums.

You can read about all this on the OS, but Dicks took 9 years to get us up to Div.1 and he left just after we were relegated back to Div.2. He finished his first season, the year after John Atyeo retired in 19th place in Div.2.

I totally agree with what you say about the onset of the internet. After a win we are world beaters and after a defeat it's time to change manager! Let's hope S'OD is afforded some real time to build his team as it sounds like Dicks was.

[downendcity]

Interesting you mention Dicks as an example, how did his first few years as City manager go? - Genuine question as it was before my time but I was under the impression that to begin with, it was largely a struggle to stay in the division.

Just as well we didn't have internet in AD's time.

The thought of seeing Dicks Out all over this forum doesn't bear thinking about!

[Mr Mosquito]

Your comparing this to 1981???

Are you being serious.

Sorry Sir, but things seem eerily similar to how they were in 1981 - especially with regard to our third tier league position.

[Lita For Congo]

I just think what he meant was, if MK Dons go up, they will be prepared. They'll be very much like Brighton, where they will just slot into the Championship with no fuss. A manager that plays good football with a decent ground. Hes took the sting out of our expectations, while admiring a side who are slowly building something special. I cant be bothered to read the slag thread but SOD got it right in a way there.