Football Coaching

[spudski]

I'm a level 2 coach, recently done my youth module 1, which the FA are massively encouraging atm. I personally believe the main reasons we don't produce enough talented footballers is because we don't do enough sport as a nation. if you look at schooling in Spain they generally allocate an hour a day to P.E. and with the younger ages (3,4,5 year old) they do lots of balance, agility, co-ordination based exercises with specialist sports coaches, hence why the likes of Silva, Navas etc are so good with the ball at their feet. they've been educated on how to run and how to move efficiently. in England they might do an hour a week with they're generic class teacher. Not a surprise we dont compete. 

we simply do not give youth enough exposure to sport and the fundamentals of it.

interesting point, why do we as nation say, 'we should do it the way Spain, Germany etc do it'... why are we not promoting our style and format as the innovators of football we supposedly are?

It's not just the physical side... but also the intelligence that is different generally.

 

Arsene Wenger is infamously quoted when asked, as to why he doesn't play many Brits....by answering.. 'I like intelligent players'...or something along those lines.

 

The one's he does employ generally can string two sentences together and are intelligent.

 

It's also noted SoD likes an intelligent player too.

[The Kaiser]

Scotland do something right on the coach/manager front that we clearly don't do.

[The Kaiser]

Arsene Wenger is infamously quoted when asked, as to why he doesn't play many Brits....by answering.. 'I like intelligent players'...or something along those lines.

The one's he does employ generally can string two sentences together and are intelligent.

.

Jack Wilshere????

[T R]

Quite an interesting thread this. There has been a lot of quotes that people say "German or Spanish style of play". I do feel that Spanish style of play is starting to get outdated, teams have learnt how to beat this system. Like some said, taking 30 passes to get only across the half way line is very boring. Personally I would prefer if we followed the route of brazil. I don't know how they do it, but they always manage to get quality players. As they showed against Spain when brazil showed them how to play football while Spain were trying to play their perfect passing style.
Got no idea how they develop these skills or how they are trained by the coaches. Perhaps they just develop it on the street, maybe using rough and hard surfaces develops better ball control. Instead of spending millions on sport centres and fine surfaces, which this country seems to do.

If we follow the Brazilian way perhaps we'll win a few world cups.
 

[Sleepy1968]

it is very easy to dismiss British coaches, but one of ignorance IMO, Barcelona for instance have had 8 Brit coaches in their history including a certain Vic Buckingham who joined them from Ajax he not only discovered Cruyff but is also referenced as being the innovator of what was to become Ajax's famous 'total football'.

 

The problem is and will always be at the FA, which is generally run by old farts most of whom have never played the game and that has stifled the game at grass roots level and in more recent history affected not only the national team but also the standard of coaching, hence foreign national team coaches.

 

in the 70's, 80's and early 90's many players played abroad and learned different methods, which were brought back to the UK when these guys decided to coach and improved the technical ability and fitness levels and regimes. The premier league has stopped all of this because the game is influenced by money and the best money and easier life for modern day footballer is in the premier league, hence none play abroad.

I'd like to see a breakdown of numbers, because well I'm sure its a lot more than now, did we ever have that many players playing abroad? I do remember David Platt trying to play for every other serie A team whilst his mojo was high post 1990 wc, gazza, trevor steven (?), waddle and hoddle strutting their stuff in Monaco...ray wilkins, laurie cunningham (rip), tony woodcock, kevin keagan, john toshack...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I'd like to see a breakdown of numbers, because well I'm sure its a lot more than now, did we ever have that many players playing abroad? I do remember David Platt trying to play for every other serie A team whilst his mojo was high post 1990 wc, gazza, trevor steven (?), waddle and hoddle strutting their stuff in Monaco...ray wilkins, laurie cunningham (rip), tony woodcock, kevin keagan, john toshack...

 

it's simple at the moment a big fat zero, nil, none.

 

Here's 50 from various era's to start with.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1161515/THE-LIST-Sportsmails-50-British-footballers-play-abroad.html

[Redmin]

Been coaching kids football for 17 years. Got my Level 2 badge the day City won 5-4 at Mansfield.

I never took it any further !!! Whilst my mate joined the coaches association, attends workshops and has helped out with the City U9s.

I was asked to go for the Uefa B, but, as it was more towards adults I was not interested. Therefore, nowadays it's just My U13 Girls team that have the benefit of my talents.

I am sure I'm not the only coach off the FA's radar.

[Cowshed]

Quite an interesting thread this. There has been a lot of quotes that people say "German or Spanish style of play". I do feel that Spanish style of play is starting to get outdated, teams have learnt how to beat this system. Like some said, taking 30 passes to get only across the half way line is very boring. Personally I would prefer if we followed the route of brazil. I don't know how they do it, but they always manage to get quality players. As they showed against Spain when brazil showed them how to play football while Spain were trying to play their perfect passing style.

Got no idea how they develop these skills or how they are trained by the coaches. Perhaps they just develop it on the street, maybe using rough and hard surfaces develops better ball control. Instead of spending millions on sport centres and fine surfaces, which this country seems to do.

If we follow the Brazilian way perhaps we'll win a few world cups.

What is needed is more sports centres, more coaching and a national emphasis on skill.

Fundamentally what Brazil, the Netherlands and Spain do is hone technique. You cannot play like that unless you master the football. Spain will continue to produce great players, so will the Dutch, and England will just bumble along.

Brazilians and futsal? It is played in courts, halls, sport centres. It is a game that again requires great technique.

Schools in the UK like Brazillian Soccer schools use a philosophy based on Brazil to coach kids in Britain. Those children are more skilful. Technique, technique ...

[Jordan Tansley]

What is needed is more sports centres, more coaching and a national emphasis on skill.

Fundamentally what Brazil, the Netherlands and Spain do is hone technique. You cannot play like that unless you master the football. Spain will continue to produce great players, so will the Dutch, and England will just bumble along.

Brazilians and futsal? It is played in courts, halls, sport centres. It is a game that again requires great technique.

Schools in the UK like Brazillian Soccer schools use a philosophy based on Brazil to coach kids in Britain. Those children are more skilful. Technique, technique ...

Absolutely on the money.

[Pezo]

It's not just the physical side... but also the intelligence that is different generally.

 

Arsene Wenger is infamously quoted when asked, as to why he doesn't play many Brits....by answering.. 'I like intelligent players'...or something along those lines.

 

The one's he does employ generally can string two sentences together and are intelligent.

 

It's also noted SoD likes an intelligent player too.

 

I can remember when GJ first came in he got the players to do a lot of running but once the running was done he would put them through a mental test to see how they perform mentally after an hour of exercise.

 

Being the fastest runner or the hardest tackler is pointless if you cant function mentally after 40 minutes of a game.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

[Cowshed]

I would have to disagree EMB.

It is not the nanny state choosing to blow the "richest league's" money on foreign players and agents equalling billions.

It is not the nanny state creating an FA that thinks English football will change without radical change.

It also is not the nanny state that decides BCFC spends millions on Clarkson, Hunt, James, Stewart, Stuyvar when a long term alternative would have been investing that money in a BCFC football school

[in unison with the community trust], or a extensive framework of coaches for the children of the Bristol region.

Other Countries, their FA's, and clubs look at youth development as a priority e.g The Spanish fidelity strategy allied to nationwide coaching and standards.

As fans we can contribute to the malaise. It should not be ok for a club to go into free fall, lose tens of millions and barely have a local player. I would rather those stars wages were spent on a community based football club. A club that looks at youth development as its priority. A huge club involving hundreds of kids, and more in an effort that will provide a large part of its starting XI. It is sort of starting.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I would have to disagree EMB.

It is not the nanny state choosing to blow the "richest league's" money on foreign players and agents equalling billions.

It is not the nanny state creating an FA that thinks English football will change without radical change.

It also is not the nanny state that decides BCFC spends millions on Clarkson, Hunt, James, Stewart, Stuyvar when a long term alternative would have been investing that money in a BCFC football school[in unison with the community trust], or a framework of coaches for the children of the Bristol region.

Other Countries, their FA's, and clubs look at youth development as a priority e.g The Spanish fidelity strategy allied to nationwide coaching and standards.

 

it's the nanny state that has all but stopped competitive sport in schools, it is the nanny state that has imposed H & S restrictions that stop a lot of schools even attempting a sports programme and it is the lack of use of school playing fields that has given the government a convenient excuse to sell them off.

 

it all goes hand in hand, the FA are not going to build the sports centres you asked for and a reason why the analogy of Britain being 20 years behind the USA is coming to fruition once more, a nation of lard arses.

 

 

[Cowshed]

EMB the lack of coaching provision at kids clubs - those already playing is not due to the Nanny state.

For those who do coach kids what national standard do they follow? What core skills do the FA want coaches to concentrate on?

Modules one and two were mentioned on this thread. Do they adhere to any long term picture regarding a cohesive national style of play?

People there do what they hope is right!

Anybody can become a coach in name, anybody can get a level one badge, and anybody could drill a kids team 2-3 times a week to win by playing like Wimbledon did. See what is wrong with that?

England lacks any truly obvious long term plan to improve the skills of children nationally.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

EMB the lack of coaching provision at kids clubs - those already playing is not due to the Nanny state. For those who do coach kids what national standard do they follow? What core skills do the FA want coaches to concentrate on? Modules one and two were mentioned on this thread. Do they adhere to any long term picture regarding a cohesive national style of play? Anybody can become a coach in name, anybody can get a level one badge, and anybody could drill a kids team 2-3 times a week to win by playing like Wimbledon did. England lacks any truly obvious long term plan to catch up.

 

Your first sentence was it not "What is needed is more sports centers" that is the bit I am replying to, I haven't actually mentioned coaches in these 2 particular reply's.

 

 

 

[Cowshed]

EMB this Country does not have the "educated" coaches to put into children's schools and Junior FC's, sports halls etc necessary to create a huge national change in direction.

That is a fault of the FA/EPL.

The lack of green spaces, the lack of facilities means a better job should be done with the resources that do exist and that starts with the people who will attempt to teach kids to play.

A point earlier "but being a part of youth football does open your eyes to the incredible comments and coaching that is allowed to occur!". I have seen Coaches picking kids teams seemingly on the basis of strength, pace. ability to take long throw in's, kick it long etc ... One team was made up of seven year olds. That should be combatted by the FA via the coaches it is meant to be educating, and its ideals.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

I won the UEFA Champions League three times with Nempnett Thrubwell Athletic on Football Manager. Does that count?

in Azerbaijan it does!

[Jordan Tansley]

I think you're both right, EMB and Cowshed.

 

The problem is not singular, there are so many different aspects of the game that need revolutionising. Facilities are terrible, My teams pitch is council owned and we don't have the funds for a groundsman so frequently it is left to grow so long playing football the right way becomes much more difficult. The drainage is terrible, it's open to the public (Being next to a secondary school it is frequently used by kids to sit in during the summer months leaving their litter, broken bottles etc.) Do the council really care? No. It's down to us to spend our free time cleaning and clearing and fixing the pitches. It's down to us to cut the grass (Baytree rec is a pretty large area and our lawn mower is designed for bleeding gardens!)

 

The problem is also in the coaching. definitely. Cowshed is right to say there is no plan set out by the FA in terms of how they want coaches to coach. Thankfully for my lads the other coach and my friend is utterly committed to football. He spends his days learning, researching about coaching techniques and what has worked best in other countries. We've focussed on getting their technique right first, ball skills and possession based drills are the main focus throughout. We've just had a group of 5 first time trialists get into the somerset county sides, and many of those kids would not have been close 18 months ago when we first took them. That's not to say we're some sort of coaching gods though. They had the talent and with simple coaching they've developed core skills already that will stay with them for the rest of their footballing lives. It's so easy to teach kids the technique when they're young and learning.

 

Thankfully, myself and my co-manager have a fantastic raport with the parents of our kids, and we explained that for the next 3 years until we get to competitive football we won't be focussing on a single result. They understand we will come up against direct, larger boys who will out-do our skills with brute power. However, the intention is that the kids techniques will be so superior after years of coaching and improvement that we'll be able to not just beat them, but destroy them. Skill will always out-do brawn and it will give our kids a much healthier chance at playing to their highest potential level.

[Fiale]

EMB this Country does not have the "educated" coaches to put into children's schools and Junior FC's, sports halls etc necessary to create a huge national change in direction.

That is a fault of the FA/EPL.

The lack of green spaces, the lack of facilities means a better job should be done with the resources that do exist and that starts with the people who will attempt to teach kids to play.

A point earlier "but being a part of youth football does open your eyes to the incredible comments and coaching that is allowed to occur!". I have seen Coaches picking kids teams seemingly on the basis of strength, pace. ability to take long throw in's, kick it long etc ... One team was made up of seven year olds. That should be combatted by the FA via the coaches it is meant to be educating, and its ideals.

Why do you keep bringing up the FA in response to EMB ? Football is not the only sport and EMB is correct when he says children only doing one hour of sport a week is undermining the countries chance of success.

Less than thirty hours a year, to cover every sport and physical activity is not enough.. Children playing an hour a week will not grow to enjoy sport it becomes a pain for many lowering the pool of available people, whereas doing it daily makes it a norm in their lives.

If kids only do an hour a week, you don't need many coaches or teachers.. There is no demand.. If they did more, enabling them to get better and therefore probably enjoying certain sports more we would have more demand, therefore more coaches.

We need to get school kids more active, and start there. It has little to nothing to do with the FA.

[Jordan Tansley]

Why do you keep bringing up the FA in response to EMB ? Football is not the only sport and EMB is correct when he says children only doing one hour of sport a week is undermining the countries chance of success.

Less than thirty hours a year, to cover every sport and physical activity is not enough.. Children playing an hour a week will not grow to enjoy sport it becomes a pain for many lowering the pool of available people, whereas doing it daily makes it a norm in their lives.

If kids only do an hour a week, you don't need many coaches or teachers.. There is no demand.. If they did more, enabling them to get better and therefore probably enjoying certain sports more we would have more demand, therefore more coaches.

We need to get school kids more active, and start there. It has little to nothing to do with the FA.

 

 

Just as an addition to the discussion on school sports, you aren't considering extra curricular sports, with a particular focus on football. I have had a few kids who have shown signs that their starting to lose interest in football because they've played too much in a school setting. 

 

That's not to say I don't agree with you. Personally I would do away with extra curricular sport but increase the level of in school time sports. 

[Cowshed]

Why do you keep bringing up the FA in response to EMB ?

Because they are responsible for the grass roots of football in this Country.

Clubs and schools get children playing football. There is a huge difference between playing and truly learning to play football.

Coaching provision is inadequate, that is the FA's watch. You can "coach" kids in a car park, but what do they really learn? Good habits or the old bad ones?

Other nationals FA's install frameworks of coaches to address the above and have a ethos to follow i.e technique, ball retention .. The English FA does not.

Our kids can play like the Brazilians, Dutch, Germans, Spanish too. They will not if a simple principle like controlling the ball with both, and different parts of the feet is not at the forefront of thinking at a very early age.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just as an addition to the discussion on school sports, you aren't considering extra curricular sports, with a particular focus on football. I have had a few kids who have shown signs that their starting to lose interest in football because they've played too much in a school setting. 

 

That's not to say I don't agree with you. Personally I would do away with extra curricular sport but increase the level of in school time sports. 

 

Probably because football at that age is supposed to be fun and not regimented, that is more for kids who join clubs like yours and need more structured coaching. At junior schools there are not even any proper PE teachers, so Mr Smith from year 5 usually gets lumbered and doesn't really want to do it, perhaps JT you should offer your services for proper structured coaching at schools.

 

PS:- please try to explain to cowshed my point is in response to his very first sentence about lack of amenities, that is not the fault of the FA it is the fault of national/local government and we all get that the FA need to change their grass roots coaching policy, i'm pretty sure Sir Geoff Hurst tried that particular hobby horse 10 years ago and like most people has given up in frustration, because the FA is run by idiots who don't understand the game at all, most have backgrounds in big business so guess what there priority is? and they manage to keep anyone who has actually played the game at arms length.

 

Not many ex footballers on this never ending list:-

 

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/WhoWeAre/TheOrganisation/Player/FACommittees.aspx

 

[spudski]

I think the lack of amenities is a poor excuse tbh.

 

Kids are too comfortable in this Country...sitting in warm houses on comfy sofas playing computer football.

 

Kids in Spain, Africa, Argentina, Brazil to name just a few, are learning their game on rough ground, just like many of us did as kids.

 

Learning to control, pass and dribble a ball on a less than perfect pitch also leads to better ball control and touch imho...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I think the lack of amenities is a poor excuse tbh.

 

Kids are too comfortable in this Country...sitting in warm houses on comfy sofas playing computer football.

 

Kids in Spain, Africa, Argentina, Brazil to name just a few, are learning their game on rough ground, just like many of us did as kids.

 

Learning to control, pass and dribble a ball on a less than perfect pitch also leads to better ball control and touch imho...

 

Well that's certainly not the fault of the FA, that is bad parenting encouraged by a government who don't think sport is important in schools.

 

 

[spudski]

Well that's certainly not the fault of the FA, that is bad parenting encouraged by a government who don't think sport is important in schools.

I'm not sure why you think sport isn't encouraged in schools... the two local comprehensives local to me have fantastic sports facilities and coaching both in school time and after. It's not fair to judge the whole country as like you have implied.

 

I can't remember my parents encouraging me to go out and play... nor the Government having an effect on what we did.

 

As kids we wanted to just go out and play sports.

 

There are too many other distractions on tv, computer screens etc that distract kids imho.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/26/fury-lost-london-2012-games-legacy

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/22565153

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sport-englands-participation-figures-reveal-decline-in-young-people-playing-sport-7876533.html

[CheddarReds]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/26/fury-lost-london-2012-games-legacy

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/22565153

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sport-englands-participation-figures-reveal-decline-in-young-people-playing-sport-7876533.html

I'm still doing school sport and it is very poor. It is just a run round a field then a game. There's no real attempt to improve people in any part of sport. This is just from my couple schools.

[spudski]

[Esmond Million's Bung]