Bcsc&t Urges Club To Listen To Fans

[Fiale]

I am surprised the SC&T released this now as it seems since Saturday that Cotterill has been signed (just for some reason it's not being announced until Wednesday which seems weird).. I am still hoping it's just rumour (though with sports writers saying it also now seems likely)..

Does no one in the trust have any close ties to the club that they know less than a lot of random posters who confirmed Cot's at the weekend... Just before a handful of managers became available..

[LondonBristolian]

I completely disagree with this letter.  The board should not listen to the fans at all, nor should they appoint a manager to please or appease us. They should appoint a manager who'll get results and get us back where we want to be.  Obviously it'd be better if it was someone the fans could get behind but a successful manager will win the fans over soon enough anyway.  They shouldn't listen to us at all.

[Milo]

I am surprised the SC&T released this now as it seems since Saturday that Cotterill has been signed (just for some reason it's not being announced until Wednesday which seems weird).. I am still hoping it's just rumour (though with sports writers saying it also now seems likely)..

Does no one in the trust have any close ties to the club that they know less than a lot of random posters who confirmed Cot's at the weekend... Just before a handful of managers became available..

The text was drafted last week, it's just that it took a while to get it out.

[Fiale]

The text was drafted last week, it's just that it took a while to get it out.

Ah beurachacy.... :-)

[Strictly Obi]

I completely disagree with this letter. The board should not listen to the fans at all, nor should they appoint a manager to please or appease us. They should appoint a manager who'll get results and get us back where we want to be. Obviously it'd be better if it was someone the fans could get behind but a successful manager will win the fans over soon enough anyway. They shouldn't listen to us at all.

Agree with this. I think the club tied itself up in knots sometimes trying to appease the masses. How can the ST or any other. tinpot fans parliament reflect so many mixed views. We all know the next appointment will be at least as divisive as the last. I think your right. The board should just get on and appoint whoever they feel fit! I mean who's running this bloody club? Us or them?

[Aizoon]

Agree with this. I think the club tied itself up in knots sometimes trying to appease the masses. How can the ST or any other. tinpot fans parliament reflect so many mixed views. We all know the next appointment will be at least as divisive as the last. I think your right. The board should just get on and appoint whoever they feel fit! I mean who's running this bloody club? Us or them?

Good points there. OTOH, it's not a good idea to appoint a manager who a sizeable proportion of fans will hate from day one, e.g. Warnock or Holloway.

[myol'man]

Not sure which of the many "new manager" threads to post this on , or indeed whether to start another new one, but here goes;

 

In the end, no one will care who we appoint as manager, or what style of football they play as long as the results come good. If the new man comes in and gets our under performing superstars to raise their game and get some wins under our belts, avoiding another end of season relegation scrap, followed by a successful push for promotion next season, everyone will be happy.

 

Back the new man in charge, whoever he is 

[spudski]

The biggest problem I see, is a few supporters want a manager like Warnock, who will not fit in with the Clubs new 5 pillars ethos.

 

If that's what they want, then they are obviously not backing the Club in it's views to a way forward.

 

You either back the Club and it's ethos and a manager who fits... or you don't.

 

You can't have a manager like Warnock for example, and the Club saying one thing, and appointing a manager that doesn't fit with that strategy.

 

If fans want the like of Warnock they are obviously not agreeing to the Clubs way of thinking.

 

So it is the Club they are not trusting... not the manager.

[NickJ]

Since when has the supporters club and trust represented the popular views of the average supporter? How can they possibly know what the popular choice is unless they carry out an extensive survey. They are,and have always been a self serving click, that pretends to speak for the common man. In reality they meet behind closed doors, and make no better judgments than you get from the straw polls and hanging jury's conducted on this incestuous forum of self righteous misfits!

It's not really the point of this thread but you are entirely incorrect in everything you say there.

I'm not sure there is a plan yet, actually...

I'm sure I agree with you.

Out of interest, how many paid up members does the supporters trust have?

Just wondering what percentage of the support they represent.

A very small number. Maybe if more fans joined the supporters would have had more of a voice and we wouldn't be in the car crash we are at the moment.

So it is the Club they are not trusting... not the manager.

Correct and that is the nub of the issue here. It wouldn't matter if the board were about to appoint Sir Alex Ferguson, someone would start a thread saying he was past it, simply because they don't trust the board to get it right.

The fact is, supporters are finally waking up to the fact that the board of directors are hopelessly out of their depth. I predicted SOD would fail from day one. That was part based on his record and part an assumption that if he was the board's choice, it was bound to be a bad appointment.

What we are seeing in the current process is a realisation from many more Bristol City fans that the board cannot be trusted to appoint a decent long term manager, hence the dozens of separate threads along the lines of, if such and such is appointed I will never set foot in Ashton Gate again, or if such and such is appointed, we are certainties to go down - I predicted relegation at the start of this season and it will take an impressive appointment to change that view.

The sensible, logical and honourable thing for the board of directors to do would be to replace 2 of the current incumbents. One with a proper football man with Bristol City connections. The other a supporters representative. That's our best chance, in terms of not only the immediate appointment, but also the long term of OUR football club. I won't be holding my breath.

[Robin1988]

Five years of disappointment? Three and a half ago we finished 10th in the (then) CCC, and the same the year before.

[RedZepperin]

The sensible, logical and honourable thing for the board of directors to do would be to replace 2 of the current incumbents. One with a proper football man with Bristol City connections. The other a supporters representative. That's our best chance, in terms of not only the immediate appointment, but also the long term of OUR football club. I won't be holding my breath.

I think our main problem is that we're not very good at football. Maybe the Board is getting things right now re. the Academy, etc. to generate a gene pool of decent players and coaches for the future. Having someone from the SCT (or whatever it is) on the Board will not make much of a difference. In the meantime, let's find a manager/head coach who can keep us out of the basement.

[spudski]

Nick J.... that is my feelings exactly... it is not the managers in charge... it is the board and owner that are the problem.

 

The two managers of quality that they have appointed ( Coppell and SoD ) were managers they couldn't personally work with.

 

The lap dog managers they've appointed ( or learn on the job types ) won't succeed because they lack experience or connections or leadership qualities and various other qualities.

 

Which leads to a merry go round of failing managers...  I can't ever see it succeeding with who we have in charge right now.

[southvillekiddy]

It's a good letter and to me says "Make sure you do your homework this time"

 

don't go for the cheap option (Tinnion, Millen)

don't go for the unproven option (McInnnes)

don't go for the possibly dodgy option (Coppell)

 

Instead, get somebody with proven ability and contacts who will immediately have the respect of the majority of fans

 

Beats me that businessmen who have amassed fortunes seem to abandon standard business practice when appointing a Football Manager. Admit you do not know as much about football as you do about commerce and consult the football experts.

 

Lastly please don't bull**it about attracting a brilliant field of candidates if this is not the case.

[Strictly Obi]

It's not really the point of this thread but you are entirely incorrect in everything you say there.

I'm sure I agree with you.

A very small number. Maybe if more fans joined the supporters would have had more of a voice and we wouldn't be in the car crash we are at the moment.

Correct and that is the nub of the issue here. It wouldn't matter if the board were about to appoint Sir Alex Ferguson, someone would start a thread saying he was past it, simply because they don't trust the board to get it right.

The fact is, supporters are finally waking up to the fact that the board of directors are hopelessly out of their depth. I predicted SOD would fail from day one. That was part based on his record and part an assumption that if he was the board's choice, it was bound to be a bad appointment.

What we are seeing in the current process is a realisation from many more Bristol City fans that the board cannot be trusted to appoint a decent long term manager, hence the dozens of separate threads along the lines of, if such and such is appointed I will never set foot in Ashton Gate again, or if such and such is appointed, we are certainties to go down - I predicted relegation at the start of this season and it will take an impressive appointment to change that view.

The sensible, logical and honourable thing for the board of directors to do would be to replace 2 of the current incumbents. One with a proper football man with Bristol City connections. The other a supporters representative. That's our best chance, in terms of not only the immediate appointment, but also the long term of OUR football club. I won't be holding my breath.

 

 

It is entirely the point of this thread.  How do the board listen to fans? Through the supporters club and similar splinter groups. And who do they represent? Themselves of course! How can a minority group reflect the views of the majority? 

How many members are ther in the ST? How many BCFC supporters are there in total?  If the St and alike are to put pressure on the board to suit they're agenda, then that's ok but it should not be in the pretence that they speak for the majority of us. I take it your a member of the drinkers club?

[ricardob59]

NickJ..... Couldn't agree more with these comments

Correct and that is the nub of the issue here. It wouldn't matter if the board were about to appoint Sir Alex Ferguson, someone would start a thread saying he was past it, simply because they don't trust the board to get it right.

The fact is, supporters are finally waking up to the fact that the board of directors are hopelessly out of their depth. I predicted SOD would fail from day one. That was part based on his record and part an assumption that if he was the board's choice, it was bound to be a bad appointment.

What we are seeing in the current process is a realisation from many more Bristol City fans that the board cannot be trusted to appoint a decent long term manager, hence the dozens of separate threads along the lines of, if such and such is appointed I will never set foot in Ashton Gate again, or if such and such is appointed, we are certainties to go down - I predicted relegation at the start of this season and it will take an impressive appointment to change that view.

The sensible, logical and honourable thing for the board of directors to do would be to replace 2 of the current incumbents. One with a proper football man with Bristol City connections. The other a supporters representative. That's our best chance, in terms of not only the immediate appointment, but also the long term of OUR football club. I won't be holding my breath.

[southvillekiddy]

Nick J.... that is my feelings exactly... it is not the managers in charge... it is the board and owner that are the problem.

 

The two managers of quality that they have appointed ( Coppell and SoD ) were managers they couldn't personally work with.

 

The lap dog managers they've appointed ( or learn on the job types ) won't succeed because they lack experience or connections or leadership qualities and various other qualities.

 

Which leads to a merry go round of failing managers...  I can't ever see it succeeding with who we have in charge right now.

 

Agree absolutely. It will only work if they get out of the way and stop interfering

[ricardob59]

It's not really the point of this thread but you are entirely incorrect in everything you say there.

I'm sure I agree with you.

A very small number. Maybe if more fans joined the supporters would have had more of a voice and we wouldn't be in the car crash we are at the moment.

Correct and that is the nub of the issue here. It wouldn't matter if the board were about to appoint Sir Alex Ferguson, someone would start a thread saying he was past it, simply because they don't trust the board to get it right.

The fact is, supporters are finally waking up to the fact that the board of directors are hopelessly out of their depth. I predicted SOD would fail from day one. That was part based on his record and part an assumption that if he was the board's choice, it was bound to be a bad appointment.

What we are seeing in the current process is a realisation from many more Bristol City fans that the board cannot be trusted to appoint a decent long term manager, hence the dozens of separate threads along the lines of, if such and such is appointed I will never set foot in Ashton Gate again, or if such and such is appointed, we are certainties to go down - I predicted relegation at the start of this season and it will take an impressive appointment to change that view.

The sensible, logical and honourable thing for the board of directors to do would be to replace 2 of the current incumbents. One with a proper football man with Bristol City connections. The other a supporters representative. That's our best chance, in terms of not only the immediate appointment, but also the long term of OUR football club. I won't be holding my breath.

NickJ,

While I agree with a lot of these comments, who would your choice of Manager be... Baring in mind that we are unlikely to see changes within the Board..?

As I've said previously, Dawes is a Spurs man.... JL has been bought a club by his rich Dad....

I harp back to the Scott Davidson/Bob Neale days... Two guys that were local and BCFC men.... Went and delivered Moyes and we're not believed in their quest that we could have him.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Good points there. OTOH, it's not a good idea to appoint a manager who a sizeable proportion of fans will hate from day one, e.g. Warnock or Holloway.

 

As usual don't the facts get in your way will you?, with the exception of Phelan on the manager poll on this forum Warnock has polled double the amount of votes of anyone else and over a third more than Phelan himself.

[LondonBristolian]

As usual don't the facts get in your way will you?, with the exception of Phelan on the manager poll on this forum Warnock has polled double the amount of votes of anyone else and over a third more than Phelan himself.

 

Don't think that actually contradicts anything Aizoon said. Warnock spilts opinions - there will be a lot of people who really want him and a lot of people who really don't.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Don't think that actually contradicts anything Aizoon said. Warnock spilts opinions - there will be a lot of people who really want him and a lot of people who really don't.

 

Ah I see we need a candidate that everybody accepts, good luck with that.

 

 

[Cowshed]

In the end, no one will care who we appoint as manager, or what style of football they play as long as the results come good. If the new man comes in and gets our under performing superstars to raise their game and get some wins under our belts, avoiding another end of season relegation scrap, followed by a successful push for promotion next season, everyone will be happy.

In the end, no one will care who we appoint as manager, or what style of football they play as long as the results come good ..

If we had a Robbie Turner and Devon White style combo up front and the ball was smashed A-B many would care. The player pathway and its academy costing millions over seasons can become a white elephant.

If a known cheat with little integrity was appointed many would care also.

Evidently the club now has a long term strategy and principles. That strategy should require a skilled man heading the XI with a specific skill set.

The club themslves have set out a standard. They should be expected to meet it.

[NickJ]

NickJ,

While I agree with a lot of these comments, who would your choice of Manager be... Baring in mind that we are unlikely to see changes within the Board..?

As I've said previously, Dawes is a Spurs man.... JL has been bought a club by his rich Dad....

....so let's leave it to young Jon to play Championship Manager.

There has to be a strategy first. Not the 5 pillars bullshit - financial prudence, community work and recruiting good people etc etc is frigging obvious - but serious thought about what type of manager is likely to be successful.

A year or two ago I put an analysis on here demonstrating what I suspected to be the case, that successful Championship managers fitted one of three profiles - an ex Premiership player, a manager that had done it before, or an up and coming student of the game who didn't have a playing career. In the 6 or 7 previous seasons only one of the promoted 3 clubs each year did not have a manager fitting one of those criteria. It was obvious to me that SOD was unlikely to be successful as he fitted none of those.

In our current predicament, someone like Cotterill wouldn't either. He might keep us up, but I very much doubt he could get us promoted from this division.

Ever since the absurd sacking of Danny Wilson, only one of the many appointments has been a good one in my view - and somehow someone or something pissed him off so much that he resigned after 3 games. You're bound to get lucky now and then - Gary Johnson was right place right time, not an appointment that could have been predicted to be so successful for those first 2 or 3 seasons.

Unfortunately you are right we won't see changes in the board, which will only reinforce my view of their failings. A sign of strength is to recognize your weaknesses. The letter from the Supporters Trust isn't really about who the next manager should be, it's a plea for the board to take them and us more seriously.

Finally - "John from High Littleton". No I am not a drinking buddy of the ST but I have met and spoken to them all on a number of occasions, primarily from my joining the trust at its inception. To suggest that they and the trust are a self serving "click" (sic) meeting behind closed doors is ill informed and therefore leading on from that rude and disrespectful.

[Mrdc]

[chipdawg]

I just want the best bloke for the job and in my mind that is Holloway.

If some of our fans are going to refuse to support the club then I think we are better off without them.

I would be dead against the appointment of Holloway- I think that placing a desire for success above the traditional tribal lines would make a mockery of the game and confirm that the whole thing has just become a race to be on Sky TV every week

HOWEVER if he was appointed, I wouldn't refuse to support the team. I might find my own ways to protest- refuse to buy merchandise, refuse to applaud him when at games, refuse to watch TV shows where he's invited to be a pundit. None of those things will have an effect on City or Holloway or anyone else bar me really, but at least I'm standing by my convictions

I don't suppose any of us support City because we enjoy the beautiful game- we've been starved of that for a long time! We might watch football for the love of the sport, but we support city because we were born this side of a line, not that side of a line. Holloway has been a poster boy for the other side of the line for many years and for us to cast aside that tribalism, takes away most of what it means to be a football fan- chiefly, to belong to a group and to identify yourself in that way. Holloway is probably the outstanding candidate in many respects, but in my mind its a straight choice between selling that identity for a chance at success or holding on to it and risking further pain. I'm used to the pain thanks and I'm quite attached to my identity

Rant finished (for now) and sorry to have taken up your time

[Aizoon]

As usual don't the facts get in your way will you?, with the exception of Phelan on the manager poll on this forum Warnock has polled double the amount of votes of anyone else and over a third more than Phelan himself.

Agreed. He is also second only to Holloway in the "not at any price" poll. Do read what I said.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Agreed. He is also second only to Holloway in the "not at any price" poll. Do read what I said.

 

Would you be kind enough to give me a link to this poll.

 

 

[Aizoon]

Would you be kind enough to give me a link to this poll.

Search it for yourself. It's the guy who asked all the questions and came up with a pretty graph.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

So let's take a minute to see where we are, the clear favourite in the manager poll, would be unacceptable according to another poll.

 

My question, who was the last manager of BCFC who when given the job was universally accepted? in fact who was the last manager of any english league club who was universally accepted?, statistically if Jesus Christ got the job 50% wouldn't accept him

[Guest]

We 100% need a manager fans can relate to, someone to inspire the players and fans and bring back the passion not seen since the GJ hey days. Not that he will be back here anytime soon.

Our last man despite meetings with some fans came across as dour and dreary that was also reflected many times on the pitch.

Give us our CITY back..............see best moments thread

[Aizoon]

So let's take a minute to see where we are, the clear favourite in the manager poll, would be unacceptable according to another poll.

My question, who was the last manager of BCFC who when given the job was universally accepted? in fact who was the last manager of any english league club who was universally accepted?, statistically if Jesus Christ got the job 50% wouldn't accept him

Agreed. But there's a difference between someone who is not the fans' favourite and one who would drive them away in droves. Holloway is the fans' second favourite. He is also the one that the highest %age of fans would refuse to accept. Would you agree that he would be a disastrous appointment?