Mr Mosquito Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 PS:- I can tell you Bill, I would have the same politics as Mr Benn if I had his wealth, I could afford those views then. So, you have respect for Tony Benn as a very wealthy man of the people and you're looking forward to seeing his will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 indeed he would and did. However there are far too many despots who carried out and still carry atrocities to their own people, but most of them don't possess oil, amen. Very true. You should note that the Iraqi oil industry - post invasion - is nationalised. China and Russia have the largest licenses to operate individual fields. It was one of the many areas I disagreed with TB. He thought everything was bound up with "king oil". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 So, you have respect for Tony Benn as a very wealthy man of the people and you're looking forward to seeing his will. I won't be in it sadly, he never replied to any of my begging letters, as you well know gobbers it far easier to be a principled lefty when you have the money, why do you think so many film stars, luvvies and theatrical types like to advertise their left wing principles?, because they can afford them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I won't be in it sadly, he never replied to any of my begging letters, as you well know gobbers it far easier to be a principled lefty when you have the money, why do you think so many film stars, luvvies and theatrical types like to advertise their left wing principles?, because they can afford them. But there are also plenty of right-wing wealthy people, And left-wing poor people.. I think your theory falls down, Es.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 But there are also plenty of right-wing wealthy people, And left-wing poor people.. I think your theory falls down, Es.... it's not a theory, luckily since super socialist yer actual 'Arold Wilson and his 98% super tax, which upset the luvvies no end, we haven't actually had a socialist government in power, so it hasn't been tested really has it?. My point is it's easy to support higher taxation and distribution of wealth, when you know you easily afford the first and second will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 it's not a theory, luckily since super socialist yer actual 'Arold Wilson and his 98% super tax, which upset the luvvies no end, we haven't actually had a socialist government in power, so it hasn't been tested really has it?. My point is it's easy to support higher taxation and distribution of wealth, when you know you easily afford the first and second will never happen. But you also surely have more to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 it's not a theory, luckily since super socialist yer actual 'Arold Wilson and his 98% super tax, which upset the luvvies no end, we haven't actually had a socialist government in power, so it hasn't been tested really has it?. My point is it's easy to support higher taxation and distribution of wealth, when you know you easily afford the first and second will never happen. But you also surely have more to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 it's not a theory, luckily since super socialist yer actual 'Arold Wilson and his 98% super tax, which upset the luvvies no end, we haven't actually had a socialist government in power, so it hasn't been tested really has it?. My point is it's easy to support higher taxation and distribution of wealth, when you know you easily afford the first and second will never happen. I think Sunny Jim still used to sing the Red Flag at party conferences, but that aside, your statement doesn't explain why all rich people don't support the distribution of wealth as they could easily afford it. You might legitimately ask why more actors appear to be left-leaning - I'll leave you to ponder - but the reason is not "because they can afford it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think Sunny Jim still used to sing the Red Flag at party conferences, but that aside, your statement doesn't explain why all rich people don't support the distribution of wealth as they could easily afford it. You might legitimately ask why more actors appear to be left-leaning - I'll leave you to ponder - but the reason is not "because they can afford it". Easily afford it yes, but don't like parting with it, of course unless it's somebody else's. The red flag? this version. The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foremans' job at last. I'm out of work and on the dole, You can stuff the red flag up your hole. The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foremans' job at last. 'Twas on Gibraltors rocks so fair, I saw a maiden lying there, And as she lay in sweet repose, A puff of wind blew up her clothes. The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foremans' job at last. A sailor who was passing by, Tipped his hat and winked his eye, And then he saw to his despair, She had the red flag flying there. The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foremans' job at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Easily afford it yes, but don't like parting with it, of course unless it's somebody else's. The red flag? this version. The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foremans' job at last. I'm out of work and on the dole, You can stuff the red flag up your hole. The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foremans' job at last. 'Twas on Gibraltors rocks so fair, I saw a maiden lying there, And as she lay in sweet repose, A puff of wind blew up her clothes. The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foremans' job at last. A sailor who was passing by, Tipped his hat and winked his eye, And then he saw to his despair, She had the red flag flying there. The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foremans' job at last. i did that one! See my response to Gobbers' poetry earlier on this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Tony Benn on the Iraq war. "Undoubtedly the war with Iraq was a tragedy. I think it was also a crime." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Let me tell you how it will be. There's one for you, nineteen for me. 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. Should five percent appear too small. Be thankful I don't take it all. 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. If you frive a car I'll tax the street. If you try to sit I'll tax your seat. If you get too cold I'll tax the heat. If you take a walk I'll tax your feet. Taxman! Don't ask me wat I want it for, If you don't want to pay some more 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. Now my advice for those who die: Beware the pennies on your eye. 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. And you're working for no one but me. I think Sunny Jim still used to sing the Red Flag at party conferences, but that aside, your statement doesn't explain why all rich people don't support the distribution of wealth as they could easily afford it. You might legitimately ask why more actors appear to be left-leaning - I'll leave you to ponder - but the reason is not "because they can afford it". Any statistics to back up that statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Any statistics to back up that statement?Well they're all forcibly unionised for a start, which isn't a stat but also explains the left bias in the BBC- all public sector employees and turkeys wouldn't vote for Christmass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Well listening to the so called tributes to Tony Benn tonight it was quite instructive that Cameron and Milliband both started in the same way...''Although I didn't agree with everything he said...'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Let me tell you how it will be. There's one for you, nineteen for me. 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. Should five percent appear too small. Be thankful I don't take it all. 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. If you frive a car I'll tax the street. If you try to sit I'll tax your seat. If you get too cold I'll tax the heat. If you take a walk I'll tax your feet. Taxman! Don't ask me wat I want it for, If you don't want to pay some more 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. Now my advice for those who die: Beware the pennies on your eye. 'Cause I'm the taxman, Yeah, I'm the taxman. And you're working for no one but me. Any statistics to back up that statement? None whatsoever. I am pandering to someone's Daily Mail cliches about Labour "luvvies" and "champagne Socialists". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten minutes of rough Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 What a shame. She would have had a chance to talk to one of the most inspirational men of his generation. True she missed a trick there, but I am afraid she voted Tory without really knowing why, just a snobby thing really, and yet we were working class, well Dad was. And that's the thing about Tony Benn he cut across that attitude of class structure, he was a genuine man that could have opted for the easy route in life, but fought for justice in society, a rarity in these days of cheesy politicians who have forgotten what real duty is. Glad he was voted in by the good people of Bristol South (City) despite my Mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Tony Benn on the Iraq war. "Undoubtedly the war with Iraq was a tragedy. I think it was also a crime." I'm pretty sure that toward the end of his life that Tony Benn founded a new political party - his own version of the Labour Party. I don't know what became of that new political party but any person of principal would want to distance themselves from the corruption and warmongering of Tony Blair's New Labour High Command. I believe that the Labour Party High Command involved in embroiling us with the Iraq War should be on trial at the Hague. What's even worse is that Tony Blair and Co seem to have become very rich by getting us involved in Iraq. This is not what the Labour Party was ever supposed to be about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 None whatsoever. I am pandering to someone's Daily Mail cliches about Labour "luvvies" and "champagne Socialists". What a pathetically arrogant statement (again) you don't know me, you don't know my politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted March 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 What an interesting and ironic group of statement to make. I'm a Bristolian born & bred who regards himself to be 'worth his salt' (your words, not mine), but I'm not proud of him or proud of what he stood for. I have the up-most respect for him in the way he conducted himself and approached politics, but I do not agree with his ideologies or beliefs. It's interesting that this thread has been descended on by 'left-wing' crowd and already degenerated into the usual Tory/Thatcher bashing, rather than only showing respect. As a [proud] conservative I've notice that since Benn and Crow died, pretty much every Conservative I can think of has had the decency to respect their passing, rather than sling mud and dance on their graves. It's shame I can't say the same about 'the left' with their conduct now and also when Baroness Thatcher passed. Chipdawg, sums it up nicely above: "One of TBs great qualities seems to have been his open mind and acceptance of the fact that other people have differing views. Something that we all could learn from on here" Absolutely spot on. Class shown by the right, as is often the case. I loathed Benn's politics, particularly his stance on unilateral nuclear disarmament, Ulster, and the endless whingeing (along with Tam Dalyell) about the bloody Belgrano, years after it was sunk. That said, to my knowledge he was a very good M.P. And by all accounts, a thoroughly decent bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 What a pathetically arrogant statement (again) you don't know me, you don't know my politics. No, but going on about lefty luvvies is exactly the sort of thing the Fail would like you to do. It is a cliche. Didn't intend it as an insult, Es. Apologies if you took it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 No, but going on about lefty luvvies is exactly the sort of thing the Fail would like you to do. It is a cliche. Didn't intend it as an insult, Es. Apologies if you took it personally. i'm sorry but that is again pathetic nonsense, I seem to recall Ian Hislop dubbing Richard Wilson as minister for luvvies on have I got news for you, a programme on your beloved BBC, a title that Wilson reveled in, i'm sure they would have edited it out had it been considered a cliche or somehow derogatory towards one of their leftie mates (now that is a cliche). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 i'm sorry but that is again pathetic nonsense, I seem to recall Ian Hislop dubbing Richard Wilson as minister for luvvies on have I got news for you, a programme on your beloved BBC, a title that Wilson reveled in, i'm sure they would have edited it out had it been considered a cliche or somehow derogatory towards one of their leftie mates (now that is a cliche). You could pick an argument in an empty room. Just chill. I will allow other people to decide whether spouting empty cliches about "people who can afford to be Socialists" is pathetic or not, Oh and it's not my beloved BBC and HIGNFY stoped being funny about three years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 I will allow other people to decide whether spouting empty cliches about "people who can afford to be Socialists" is pathetic or not, ....but EMB has got a valid point there. Tony Benn had a true high class no expense spared education. He attended Westminster Public School then Oxford University. He got the right education and then met the right people as a result and was able to become a top 'socialist' politician. Then Tony Benn was against state funded Grammar Schools that gave children of poorer families the chance to have a similar education as what's on offer at fee paying public schools. I believe that Tony Benn and all the other 'socialists' from wealthy backgrounds were bang out of order for their opposition of state funded Grammar Schools. That written, Tony Benn was still a hero to me for his long standing opposition to Britain's membership of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 ....but EMB has got a valid point there. Tony Benn had a true high class no expense spared education. He attended Westminster Public School then Oxford University. He got the right education and then met the right people as a result and was able to become a top 'socialist' politician. Then Tony Benn was against state funded Grammar Schools that gave children of poorer families the chance to have a similar education as what's on offer at fee paying public schools. I believe that Tony Benn and all the other 'socialists' from wealthy backgrounds were bang out of order for their opposition of state funded Grammar Schools. That written, Tony Benn was still a hero to me for his long standing opposition to Britain's membership of the EU. But that all works on the assumption that if Tony Benn had been the son of a shop fitter and had schooling to whatever level happened to be available in the local area, he wouldn't have had the same political outlook and standpoints. It would have been harder for him no doubt, but you'll never know And the problem with getting rid wasn't that the grammar school system was fair- it was just another tier of elitism, separating haves and have-nots within 'the masses'- but that what it was replaced with wasn't fit for purpose. Political debates in this country always become a race to the bottom; steeped in hindsight and blaming others for what they got rid of or changed, because no one on any side of the political spectrum has the imagination or drive to think of a new way of doing things. Grammar schools are a case in point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 ....but EMB has got a valid point there. Tony Benn had a true high class no expense spared education. He attended Westminster Public School then Oxford University. He got the right education and then met the right people as a result and was able to become a top 'socialist' politician. Then Tony Benn was against state funded Grammar Schools that gave children of poorer families the chance to have a similar education as what's on offer at fee paying public schools. I believe that Tony Benn and all the other 'socialists' from wealthy backgrounds were bang out of order for their opposition of state funded Grammar Schools. That written, Tony Benn was still a hero to me for his long standing opposition to Britain's membership of the EU. Ramsay MacDonald was born illegitimate and had a Mum who worked in a fish processing factory. He was able to become more of a "top" Socialist politician than Benn. It takes all sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Ramsay MacDonald was born illegitimate and had a Mum who worked in a fish processing factory. He was able to become more of a "top" Socialist politician than Benn. It takes all sorts. That's a fishy tale. At times I think that Tony Benn was not so much a Socialist but more of a rebel against his aristocratic schooling and background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 That's a fishy tale. At times I think that Tony Benn was not so much a Socialist but more of a rebel against his aristocratic schooling and background. I think he'd disagree with your first assertion there, Gobbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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