GodEmperor Palpatine Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Of course Gerrard can be blamed for the second goal! If you see a long-kick coming either get out the way and let it go for a goal kick or get under it and head it forwards. His deft flick on for Suarez to collect was a move any Uruguayan would be proud of. Yes, the back two were asleep but don't absolve the man who dropped them in the shit Gerrard made an error, it happens but Jagielka and Cahill should've been more aware of where Suarez was lurking in any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gerrard made an error, it happens but Jagielka and Cahill should've been more aware of where Suarez was lurking in any situation. No arguments with that DWC. I was merely posting in response to the idea that SG had no blame for his part in the fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunnyfunt Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yet Scholes was poor for England.Because he's not a left sided midfield player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunnyfunt Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lots of comments in different threads about how Gerrard is past it. Wasn't great for England, but was great for Liverpool all season. Was nominated for both footballer of the year awards!You could argue Liverpool played their best footy last season without him when he was injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 People claiming that Terry and Cole would have improved us are clutching at straws. The former is hated by much of the squad while the latter hardly played. See Iker Casilas for the problems of playing a guy who's not featuring for his club. I think Terry's leadership on the pitch would have been a plus, but his influence off it may have derailed the whole shebang Anyway, the errors made at the back were not the difference between world class and Premier League class, it was the difference between schoolboy and professional. Inexcusable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 And there in lies the difference between a World Class striker like Suarez and Englands best... For all the huff and puff, England are simply not good enough on the world stage. Exactly my point. Suarez can pull moments of class out of a so-so performance. To be fair though, for all the criticism he's got, I thought Rooney was very good in the second half- certainly in the context of the team performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 if we had Cahill and Terry at centre half last night, we wouldnt have lost. Jagielka's positioning for both is embarrasing. Cahill deserves a knighthood for covering up his mess for the majority of the game!! Yeah, Terry would've saved us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yeah, Terry would've saved us! Different defence same problem. No mental toughness or concentration. switched off again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 You could argue Liverpool played their best footy last season without him when he was injured. They won 11 in a row with Gerrard playing did they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 So what if Jagielka hasn't played Champs League football? In 2008 most of our squad was playing Champs League football and we didn't qualify for the Euros! How many of the Uruguay, Costa Rica players play Champs League? It's a non-argument. What were the other options? John Terry? Do you remember his abysmal display v Germany in South Africa? The bloke is shot at international level. We just don't have many quality CBs at the moment...that's the way it goes. We have some good quality attacking players so Hodgson tried to play to our strengths. People are blaming the defence but the selection of Henderson and Gerrard as DM's was flawed from the start - Liverpool conceded over 50 goals last season, did Gerrard really have a great season for them? No. Without Suarez Liverpool would've finished 5th-7th. You're saying Gerrard and Lampard have to go yet suggesting we should've brought Terry and Cole? Sorry mate but that's hypocritical and you are simply relying on hindsight... Interesting that those close to Hodgson are suggesting the media played a role in him ditching his usual conservative approach in favour of a more attacking line-up. It's led by the fans of course and Hodgson would've known the groans he'd of got for picking Milner but again with hindsight that's probably what he should've done... The margins are so fine and I think we've been unlucky to lose both games. Last night that Godin should've been sent off, if the cross to Rooney is 2 inches lower he scores...ultimately the difference was Suarez who is a top 3 in the world player. Granted Champs league football isn't essential and I'm not trying to suggest it is, what I am suggesting is just what did Jagielka have to warrant a place? My opinion on him & Baines is not done with hindsight as I have mentioned this before. I just find it hard to justify his inclusion, whilst accepting options are very limited if he's not going to be around for the Euros is there any point? You either give the likes of Jones, Smalling, Stones a chance as they are the future or get someone like Terry with the relevant experience in. I also accept that the likes of Jones have had poor season's but better or not he is the future. As for Terry I think it's harsh to say he is shot at international all because of the Germany game. Yes he was poor but it was a very good attacking Germany side and we had other defenders completely out of their depth. Upson for example. Let's also not forget that aside from that amateur error by Green we didn't concede another goal in the group stage while Terry played alongside no less than 3 different centre backs. Hardly an ideal situation going into the Germany game with that many different centre back combinations while trying to build a partnership is it? The bloke was also prepared to put his body on the line. If he's shot at international level because of one bad performance under those circumstances then by that logic the likes of Rooney, Gerrard & Lampard shouldn't have gone this time. At least 3 of the goals we have conceded this tournament have been because of defensive errors, although agreed not helped by the midfield. Just to confirm mate, without meaning to contradict myself I should probably have made myself more clear. I would have taken Gerrard, Lampard, Cole & JT before the squad was announced as I believed they were the right senior pro's to be around the exciting young talent we had in the squad. I am not for one minute trying to suggest we bring in JT & Cole now but get rid of Gerrard and Lampard. If we were going to do anything in this tournament we needed the right blend of experience and youth. You would have hoped they could all have one last big impact while helping the young ones along. Clearly now that hasn't happened and we have to go in a different direction. I agree the midfield has been poor and Henderson for me is way out of his depth. For the record I am not trying to knock Roy's squad selection. I am not being wise after the event either as the Terry/Cole view is one I have had pre tournament that's been a regular debate amongst myself and friends. I accept to an extent the Terry call was always going to be pie in the sky but to have not included at least one of him or Cole with their vast experience in a frail defence was always a huge gamble. Especially as Cole played in most of the qualifiers? Fair play to Roy for taking that. Even more so as like discussed the options were not great. I have always been behind Roy and still will be. He has tried bringing in the youth and actually going for it. With the exception of Cole, as I guess we can't consider Terry as a realistic option it was the squad more or less everyone would have picked. In fact I feel sorry for him. Make no bones about it, it is fine margins and Godin should have gone but it's still impossible to predict what would have happened even if he had. We didn't take our chances in either game and along with defensive mistakes it's cost us, albeit narrowly and of course a world class Suarez finished us off. We are certainly not as bad as some have suggested but I am merely trying to put my points across as well as I can without appearing to be wise after the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Apart from being an odious man i always thought terry was overrated: always gets loads of protection in front of him at chelsea. The 2010 germany game showed up his lack of pace. Cole however has been England's best player for 10 years, but as someone else said it was a big risk to take someone who has played so little recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Costa Rica have beaten both Uruguay and Italy. Does this mean they are a really good team or does it mean that Uruguay and Italy are average at best? I go for the latter option which means England lost to two average teams. There were mistakes from England players in both matches but it's wrong to single out individual players for criticism. The truth is simple - England, as a team, are just not good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 You could argue Liverpool played their best footy last season without him when he was injured. It's an argument I'd probably support. They won 11 in a row with Gerrard playing did they not? Doesn't mean the football was better, though all that is being said; Gerrard was very good this year, and it is unfortunate we're having this discussion, as I do think that in the role Henderson was being asked to play (further forward, less focused on distribution out of the back), with a better defensive player behind/alongside him, I think Gerrard would have made a bigger impact this competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 It's an argument I'd probably support. Doesn't mean the football was better, though all that is being said; Gerrard was very good this year, and it is unfortunate we're having this discussion, as I do think that in the role Henderson was being asked to play (further forward, less focused on distribution out of the back), with a better defensive player behind/alongside him, I think Gerrard would have made a bigger impact this competition. Complete nonsense. Liverpool played some fantastic stuff in those games. Arsenal 5-1, 3-0 at OT, 3-2 against Man City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1970 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yes crap all around...The worst central defence in English history! John Terry is laughing his cock off! four awful goals......I can see why he retired from International football, he could see what was left to play with at this level! If that is what John Terry is doing then that is what is wrong with English football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8ypOknFlY by the logic imposed by some of you, i presume Sol Campbell, Ledley King and David James are to blame for this too?? afterall, the defenders should have known that Henry was behind them, Gerrard is exempt from all blame because they should have known he'd pass the ball there. And James was so slow off of his line, dreadful, dreadful. Fact of the matter is, is that for both this one vs France in 04 and the 2nd vs Uruguay, had Gerrard done what he was supposed to do, neither would have led to goals against England. But never mind, roll on 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yeah, Terry would've saved us! I never knew Terry changed his name to Mathew Upson, gee when did hat happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinbarRed Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 What has happened to Shawcross as the future of the England defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 What has happened to Shawcross as the future of the England defence? Had a few chances at friendly level and looked totally out of place not being allowed to choke slam and body check attackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I never knew Terry changed his name to Mathew Upson, gee when did hat happen? It defies belief that Matthew Upson has played at a WC but hard to single out individuals when the entire team were dreadful against the Germans. Terry performed well until that game. Not helped that he played with 3 different centre halfs in 4 games at that tournament. He gets unfair stick because of who he is and what he's done off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK0wnag3 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 It defies belief that Matthew Upson has played at a WC I know, right? Don't look now but the **** scored aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I know, right? Don't look now but the **** scored aswell. It was actually a very well controlled header as well! A strikers finish one would say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I know, right? Don't look now but the **** scored aswell. Finished our joint top scorer. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 It defies belief that Matthew Upson has played at a WC but hard to single out individuals when the entire team were dreadful against the Germans. Terry performed well until that game. Not helped that he played with 3 different centre halfs in 4 games at that tournament. He gets unfair stick because of who he is and what he's done off the field. That would make it fair stick then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 That would make it fair stick then? I meant as in people judge him for what he appears like as a person rather than on his football ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1970 Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 I never knew Terry changed his name to Mathew Upson, gee when did hat happen? Just like when Terry changed his name to Bridge one dirty night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Just like when Terry changed his name to Bridge one dirty night. ....or did Mrs Bridge change her name to Terry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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