Portland Bill Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Ashley Cole was the most consistent world class performer without doubt. But (when at the peak of their powers) you can't say that Ferdinand, Scholes, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen and even Terry weren't. You only have to look at the amount of individual accolades and acknowledge they received from both home and abroad. One thing that people always forget is that German coaches visited England to see how our players were coached after the 5-1 drubbing in Munich- they were amazed at the young talented, technical players we had coming through. They took our model and made it better. The game evolved and age caught up with them- they were left behind. But for a while they were right at the top. Perhaps not as an international team but as individual players. The Germans actually took our " planned" model. We never put it into place ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Beckham was nowhere near world class, he didn't have the pace, but what he lacked in ability he sure put in the effort We persisted with Beckham out wide for far too long, after he'd lost what pace he had, because he could cross a ball. We should have done what the Germans did with Schweinsteiger and moved him into a central position where his work rate and passing ability would have been more influential. Another missed opportunity in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 We persisted with Beckham out wide for far too long, after he'd lost what pace he had, because he could cross a ball. We should have done what the Germans did with Schweinsteiger and moved him into a central position where his work rate and passing ability would have been more influential. Another missed opportunity in my opinion. Agree to a certain extent but still think Beckham got far too many caps than he should of. To be fair the one thing i did like about Beckham was his ball retention, which only got better with his moves abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Think the talent and career of Joe Cole is worthy of discussion re all this, another one to underachieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Think the talent and career of Joe Cole is worthy of discussion re all this, another one to underachieve. Very true. Joe Cole was normally comfortable on the ball and (relative to some of his English peers at least) was generally good at retaining possession. Going back a little further, you could probably throw Steve McManaman's name into the mix too - hugely talented player (he won the Champions League twice), but again England didn't get the best out of him. Interestingly, Zinedine Zidane had a very high opinion of McManaman: http://www.rediff.com/sports/2002/apr/26wc2.htm Although this interesting article from 2002 is a bit more damning: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/macca-from-a-floppy-fringed-genius-to-flop-on-the-fringes-535671 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Very true. Joe Cole was normally comfortable on the ball and (relative to some of his English peers at least) was generally good at retaining possession. Going back a little further, you could probably throw Steve McManaman's name into the mix too - hugely talented player (he won the Champions League twice), but again England didn't get the best out of him. Interestingly, Zinedine Zidane had a very high opinion of McManaman: http://www.rediff.com/sports/2002/apr/26wc2.htm Although this interesting article from 2002 is a bit more damning: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/macca-from-a-floppy-fringed-genius-to-flop-on-the-fringes-535671 McManaman ? I prefer Totti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Very true. Joe Cole was normally comfortable on the ball and (relative to some of his English peers at least) was generally good at retaining possession. Going back a little further, you could probably throw Steve McManaman's name into the mix too - hugely talented player (he won the Champions League twice), but again England didn't get the best out of him. Interestingly, Zinedine Zidane had a very high opinion of McManaman: http://www.rediff.com/sports/2002/apr/26wc2.htm Although this interesting article from 2002 is a bit more damning: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/macca-from-a-floppy-fringed-genius-to-flop-on-the-fringes-535671 When it comes to football, I think I would trust the opinion of Zidane over that of a Mirror hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 McManaman ? I prefer Totti. Surely everybody likes totty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I can't believe Gerrard's now suggesting Rooney as a captain. The outlook is even bleaker than our current predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahatma Coate Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Think the talent and career of Joe Cole is worthy of discussion re all this, another one to underachieve. It's been going on for generations, look at this for a list of under-achieving midfielders: Tony Currie Stan Bowles Alan Hudson Rodney Marsh Matt Le Tissier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 It's been going on for generations, look at this for a list of under-achieving midfielders: Tony Currie Stan Bowles Alan Hudson Rodney Marsh Matt Le Tissier Was le Tissier ever really given the chances he should have? He should have left Southampton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Was le Tissier ever really given the chances he should have?He should have left Southampton Can't agree, sorry. He loved playing for Southampton and probably did more than anyone to keep the club he loved in the top flight for so long. The problem is with England managers who can't see beyond the badge on the shirt rather than the player wearing it. I've got a lot of time for the likes of Le Tiss and Alan Shearer. Both gave up personal glory to play for their clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 The national team should retire you. Not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 The national team should retire you. Not the other way around. In Soviet Russia, captain retires team. With AK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacker Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Maybe after the last few fiascos the national team should job retire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcnick Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 It's been going on for generations, look at this for a list of under-achieving midfielders: Tony Currie Stan Bowles Alan Hudson Rodney Marsh Matt Le Tissier That list would equal anything Brazil could offer if my view although of course there has to be balance in the team. We had the talent but it was never given a decent run of games. One of the most sublimely talented players who had about one cap for England was Duncan McKenzie. I genuinely believe he would have been talked about as in the top ten of all time greats if the England managers during his time had picked him and given him a chance on the world stage. A striker rather than midfielder with unique skill and an ability to make defenders look amateurish and quite a prolific goal scorer as well. I think he smoked like a chimney but the footballing geniuses, or any sporting one-offs are often likeable rogues - take that away and the talent is compromised. Cloughy would have picked him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 That list would equal anything Brazil could offer if my view although of course there has to be balance in the team. We had the talent but it was never given a decent run of games. One of the most sublimely talented players who had about one cap for England was Duncan McKenzie. I genuinely believe he would have been talked about as in the top ten of all time greats if the England managers during his time had picked him and given him a chance on the world stage. A striker rather than midfielder with unique skill and an ability to make defenders look amateurish and quite a prolific goal scorer as well. I think he smoked like a chimney but the footballing geniuses, or any sporting one-offs are often likeable rogues - take that away and the talent is compromised. Cloughy would have picked him. Cloughie only got 2 caps for England, incredible when you consider his scoring record at club level. Steve Bruce and Jimmy Case are another 2 who never played for England that probably should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kachina Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 The national team should retire you. Not the other way around. I think the saying goes, you never give up on your country, you let your country give up on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Cloughie only got 2 caps for England, incredible when you consider his scoring record at club level. Steve Bruce and Jimmy Case are another 2 who never played for England that probably should have. Cloughie record is incredible but most was in the 2nd tier Bruce played for Man Utd a still didnt get a cap!! Says it all No way good enough Case was a good player but England had better at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 It's been going on for generations, look at this for a list of under-achieving midfielders: Tony Currie Stan Bowles Alan Hudson Rodney Marsh Matt Le Tissier Flair players. Most other countries build their team around players of that ability although in fairness players like Bowles and Marsh probably lacked enough discipline and could be lose cannons at international level. In this country we struggle to find where to play this type of player among the 10 hard working robots selected ahead of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 It's been going on for generations, look at this for a list of under-achieving midfielders: Tony Currie Stan Bowles Alan Hudson Rodney Marsh Matt Le Tissier You could chuck Peter Barnes in there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Cloughie record is incredible but most was in the 2nd tier Bruce played for Man Utd a still didnt get a cap!! Says it all No way good enough Case was a good player but England had better at the time Unless you're fishing, I'd argue that is somewhat harsh on Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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