The Batman Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 he is entitled to his free speech (given to him by the men who fought & died for that right) and I am entitled to mine, and you reading this are entitled to yours. Freedom of speech may be horrid at times but the alternative is so so much worse. With that in mind, i am also free to make comment on others choices of their free speech & expression, similarly, you can now comment on what I say. If he feels that the deaths of those men at, for example Normandy on June 6th 1944, or those at the Battle of the Somme in 1916 are not worth anything due to the British Army's involvement in defeating a bunch of Nationalist IRA thugs who go around blowing up public places and killing innocent people, then so be it. yeah his crappy letter said that he admires what they've done in the past, but i dont think he really means that. I am ashamed of my irish heritage for what they did many many years ago, it's a diseased root in my family tree. Hatred for the English & our Armed Forces in Ireland existed long before the dates he refers to, it's probably been indoctrinated into him through the generations of his family. I do hate the way that the poppy has been hijacked for political point scoring and James Mcclean is no different for his political point scoring. That is not what the symbol of the poppy is supposed to signify. I also bet my bottom dollar that he has never been to Flanders Field or any of the war graves in France. It aint like he hasn't had the time or lack of money to go over there either. But that's just my 2 cents on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 If he feels that the deaths of those men at, for example Normandy on June 6th 1944, or those at the Battle of the Somme in 1916 are not worth anything due to the British Army's involvement in defeating a bunch of Nationalist IRA thugs who go around blowing up public places and killing innocent people, then so be it. yeah his crappy letter said that he admires what they've done in the past, but i dont think he really means that. I am ashamed of my irish heritage for what they did many many years ago, it's a diseased root in my family tree. Hatred for the English & our Armed Forces in Ireland existed long before the dates he refers to, it's probably been indoctrinated into him through the generations of his family. In the same way that your views have clearly been indoctrinated into you as demonstrated by your one-eyed views expressed above. It's amazes me how time and time again people embarrass themselves by giving views on a subject they clearly no little about - particularly Irish history. It ain't as straight forward as IRA = terrorists, all Irish people hate the British etc Why on earth do you describe your Irish heritage as a "disease"? Sounds like something Hitler said about the Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2UK Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Before we are lumped in with the North, I am from the Republic of Ireland.Over 50,000 Irishmen(it probably gets into six figures) died in the First World War and they are forgotten in my country.All we hear about is the glory of the revolution of that period in Ireland.History is thought by the victors and when we became independent, by God didnt De Valera rewrite the record books.Its disgraceful.I wore a poppy when I lived in Canada but haven't worn one here yet because it's almost rammed down your throat and I think that shows disrespect to the men who died fighting for the freedom of others.I wouldn't expect to be accosted on the street for not wearing one.But at 11 am tomorrow I will observe silence for my countrymen and your countrymen who gave their lives for our freedom.And the sad thing is, Germany bloody well run Ireland now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 he is entitled to his free speech (given to him by the men who fought & died for that right) and I am entitled to mine, and you reading this are entitled to yours. Freedom of speech may be horrid at times but the alternative is so so much worse. With that in mind, i am also free to make comment on others choices of their free speech & expression, similarly, you can now comment on what I say. If he feels that the deaths of those men at, for example Normandy on June 6th 1944, or those at the Battle of the Somme in 1916 are not worth anything due to the British Army's involvement in defeating a bunch of Nationalist IRA thugs who go around blowing up public places and killing innocent people, then so be it. yeah his crappy letter said that he admires what they've done in the past, but i dont think he really means that. I am ashamed of my irish heritage for what they did many many years ago, it's a diseased root in my family tree. Hatred for the English & our Armed Forces in Ireland existed long before the dates he refers to, it's probably been indoctrinated into him through the generations of his family. I do hate the way that the poppy has been hijacked for political point scoring and James Mcclean is no different for his political point scoring. That is not what the symbol of the poppy is supposed to signify. I also bet my bottom dollar that he has never been to Flanders Field or any of the war graves in France. It aint like he hasn't had the time or lack of money to go over there either. But that's just my 2 cents on the matter. About what I said but you did it in a different and perhaps more cohesive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 he is entitled to his free speech (given to him by the men who fought & died for that right) and I am entitled to mine, and you reading this are entitled to yours. Freedom of speech may be horrid at times but the alternative is so so much worse. With that in mind, i am also free to make comment on others choices of their free speech & expression, similarly, you can now comment on what I say. If he feels that the deaths of those men at, for example Normandy on June 6th 1944, or those at the Battle of the Somme in 1916 are not worth anything due to the British Army's involvement in defeating a bunch of Nationalist IRA thugs who go around blowing up public places and killing innocent people, then so be it. yeah his crappy letter said that he admires what they've done in the past, but i dont think he really means that. I am ashamed of my irish heritage for what they did many many years ago, it's a diseased root in my family tree. Hatred for the English & our Armed Forces in Ireland existed long before the dates he refers to, it's probably been indoctrinated into him through the generations of his family. I do hate the way that the poppy has been hijacked for political point scoring and James Mcclean is no different for his political point scoring. That is not what the symbol of the poppy is supposed to signify. I also bet my bottom dollar that he has never been to Flanders Field or any of the war graves in France. It aint like he hasn't had the time or lack of money to go over there either. But that's just my 2 cents on the matter. I have not been to Flanders nor to any of the French war graves, despite having money and time. I did not realise this was a requirement in order to be able to remember those that died in the World Wars. Not sure what point you endeavouring to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Bet Italian, German & Japanese and the other minor Entente & Axis powers, players have no issue with this. James McClean is wrong. Many many Irishmen, patriotic Irishmen all died in both WW1 & WW2, and will be commorated like all other British Commonwealth, and Allied Nations in the service of the UK, Indeed some have died in many wars since serving the King/Queen too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Bet Italian, German & Japanese and the other minor Entente & Axis powers, players have no issue with this. James McClean is wrong. Many many Irishmen, patriotic Irishmen all died in both WW1 & WW2, and will be commorated like all other British Commonwealth, and Allied Nations in the service of the UK, Indeed some have died in many wars since serving the King/Queen too... He is not wrong bucks, he just happens to have an opinion that you disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 A lot of opinion on here to the effect that the IRA were bad people. This displays ignorance for there are many who consider them freedom fighters. Remember Bobby Sands he gave his life so Ireland could be free. I keep hearing about the poppy symbolizing every death during conflict. But who does the money go to? It goes to the victims of one side of the conflict. In fact it doesn't even go to the soldiers who fought in WWI anymore because there aren't any and a dwindling amount from WWII. If the Germans had succeeded in invading Britain and eventually the Southern half of this island became independent, we would be looking upon Brits who bombed Nazis in Northern Britain and in mainland Germany as heroes as they would be endeavoring to get Britain reunited. The same applies to Ireland. We Brits are the oppressors and to expect the oppressed not to take umbrage or retaliate is naive in the extreme. I doubt any of the money raised by selling poppies goes to victims of British aggression so why on earth should any Irish person wear a poppy? I am not advocating this. I just look at the real world and put myself in the shoes of others. I don't look at the world through poppy tinted glasses. Who exactly are we "oppressing" at the moment ? Do tell ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 He is not wrong bucks, he just happens to have an opinion that you disagree with. Not respecting the hundreds of thousands of his fellow countrymens sacrifice is right? I never ever met an unpatriotic Irishman yet. He should respect that and thats right. Not playing the Sein Fein/IRA party line, which is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slack Bladder Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 War/conflict is a terrible thing and many innocent people get killed on both sides. I grew up next to a German lady whose family were wiped out by flooding caused by the Dam Busters. She was a lovely lady. I have family who were killed in the blitz on Bristol and they never carried arms against anybody. I wear a poppy not only to remember members of the armed forces but the who lost their lives, but the innocent too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonboy Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 If you believe in freedom of action and speech you must just accept his opinion and move on. He appears to want to respect his own upbringing and heritage and until anyone proves his motives are otherwise ( and they have not) then accept it as heartfelt and genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 War/conflict is a terrible thing and many innocent people get killed on both sides. I grew up next to a German lady whose family were wiped out by flooding caused by the Dam Busters. She was a lovely lady. I have family who were killed in the blitz on Bristol and they never carried arms against anybody. I wear a poppy not only to remember members of the armed forces but the who lost their lives, but the innocent too. That, hopefully, is the point I was trying to get across. Wearing a poppy is not a celebration of the British Army as McClean seems to think it is. It remembers the fallen from all wars and reminds us what a terrible thing war is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Who exactly are we "oppressing" at the moment ? l ? Afghanistan, Iraq, these are just two of the pies we have our fingers in at the mo. In the past I think it would be easier to list the countries we have never oppressed than to list those we have. Concentration camps were a British invention first deployed in the Boer War 1899-1902. We used to stick Indians on the end of cannons and blow them to smithereens. We can't expect to have oppressed many peoples before and them not still feel resentful now. Lest we not forget that the poppy appeal used to be called the Haig Fund and that so and so was responsible for a policy of sending thousands upon thousands of brave Tommies over the top to certain death or injury just for the possibility of gaining a few yards. Lions led by donkeys. It is despicable that Haig be associated with any memorial to our brave men. Slaughtered they were. The Germans were crying into their machine guns as they mowed our men down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Afghanistan, Iraq, these are just two of the pies we have our fingers in at the mo. In the past I think it would be easier to list the countries we have never oppressed than to list those we have. Concentration camps were a British invention first deployed in the Boer War 1899-1902. We used to stick Indians on the end of cannons and blow them to smithereens. We can't expect to have oppressed many peoples before and them not still feel resentful now. Lest we not forget that the poppy appeal used to be called the Haig Fund and that so and so was responsible for a policy of sending thousands upon thousands of brave Tommies over the top to certain death or injury just for the possibility of gaining a few yards. Lions led by donkeys. It is despicable that Haig be associated with any memorial to our brave men. Slaughtered they were. The Germans were crying into their machine guns as they mowed our men down. A lot of self-hating myths in that lot, HoC, but even if twere all true that doesn't explain why McClean takes his stance when the president of "his" republic is happy to wear a poppy and the city he regards as his capital holds a remembrance day ceremony. It's about remembering and respecting the fallen from all conflicts, including fallen Irish soldiers. It's not about honouring Earl Haig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I quite agree Red Robbo, I appreciate the sacrifice men of previous generations have made so that we can all be free. My grandmother lost her first husband aged 21 in WWI. The Russians lost millions in WWII so that we could be free but almost as soon as it was over we engaged in a cold war with them. That is far from honouring the nation who lost the most in terms of deaths. Thus I admire and appreciate the sacrifices of the common man but not the hypocrisy of the war mongers who lead us and lead them into unnecessary conflict. In 1980 our Govt tried to get our athletes to boycott the Moscow Olympics because the Soviets were in Afghanistan. I heard not a single voice from our Govt saying nations should boycott the London Olympics in 2012 because we were in Afghanistan. Once again we were not showing respect to the tens of millions of Russians who died so we could be free. Every life is sacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Afghanistan, Iraq, these are just two of the pies we have our fingers in at the mo. In the past I think it would be easier to list the countries we have never oppressed than to list those we have. Concentration camps were a British invention first deployed in the Boer War 1899-1902. We used to stick Indians on the end of cannons and blow them to smithereens. We can't expect to have oppressed many peoples before and them not still feel resentful now. Lest we not forget that the poppy appeal used to be called the Haig Fund and that so and so was responsible for a policy of sending thousands upon thousands of brave Tommies over the top to certain death or injury just for the possibility of gaining a few yards. Lions led by donkeys. It is despicable that Haig be associated with any memorial to our brave men. Slaughtered they were. The Germans were crying into their machine guns as they mowed our men down. The first is now complete. The second is at the request of the democratically elected Iraqi government. I cannot see any "oppression" there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Can't be arsed to read, though I guess he's a bit like his forefathers who decided to remain neutral on the subject of war. Cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 The first is now complete. The second is at the request of the democratically elected Iraqi government. I cannot see any "oppression" there ? Fair enough. But the reason there were elections in Iraq was because we went in and removed their leader because of his weapons of mass destruction which turned out to be a catapult or something akin to it. As for Afghanistan that will never be complete. We were losing men there 150 years ago and will be losing lives there in 150 years from now. At the end of the day we are all E At the end of the day we are all E ENG But at the end of the day we are all Eng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Full respect to him. In a free society, we have to respect other people's opinions and beliefs. Forcing him to wear a symbol he does not believe him would, ironically, mean that those who fought in the two Worls wars would have died in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 My iPad won't let me correct what I am trying to say so here goes again. At the end of the day we are all ENGLISHMEN under the same sun and I respect your views therefore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Full respect to him. In a free society, we have to respect other people's opinions and beliefs. Forcing him to wear a symbol he does not believe him would, ironically, mean that those who fought in the two Worls wars would have died in vain. Yep another overpaid incredibly average millionaire footballer to add to an ever growing list, who will always be remembered for something other than his football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortonred Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 McClean is still happy to earn his money in this country.How convenient that his morals and beliefs do not stop him when it comes to filling his pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Yep another overpaid incredibly average millionaire footballer to add to an ever growing list, who will always be remembered for something other than his football. Why is that relevant? Out of interest? As far as I can see the bloke has had the courage to stand by his convictions even though it defies popular opinion. That's something to be proud of. That in this country alternative views can be given and nobody is persecuted. If anything, his stance embodies everything the poppy is designed to do. We remember those who died and what those in the Second World War died for. (The less said about the first the better as it angers me so much.) freedom. Freedom to express your own views, to follow whatever religion you want, freedom to make choices about your own life. Perhaps if more remembered that we wouldn't have all this bullshit reaction, sullying the memory of those everyone seems so intent on remembering the loudest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Why is that relevant? Out of interest? As far as I can see the bloke has had the courage to stand by his convictions even though it defies popular opinion. That's something to be proud of. That in this country alternative views can be given and nobody is persecuted. If anything, his stance embodies everything the poppy is designed to do. We remember those who died and what those in the Second World War died for. (The less said about the first the better as it angers me so much.) freedom. Freedom to express your own views, to follow whatever religion you want, freedom to make choices about your own life. Perhaps if more remembered that we wouldn't have all this bullshit reaction, sullying the memory of those everyone seems so intent on remembering the loudest. it's relevant because it's true, he is and will be more famous for this stance on this matter than his football prowess IMO. and for the record I have already said that he has a democratic right to his view as I to mine, I just don't happen to agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 If he feels that strongly about the red poppy then why didn't he wear a white one? The white poppy is for peace and no more wars plus for all the innocents who have died during wars. Or will he find something against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I still (perhaps naively according to popular opinion) hold the belief that I wear a poppy to remember those who died in the Great War 1914-1918, for which the poppy is synonymous for how it flowered on the fields of Flanders. This war was a true struggle of freedom, as was the war of 1939-1945. Which is why I am happy to remember those who died in these 2 brutal wars. Let's not kid ourselves that the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan are anything to do with our "freedom". These are conflicts of economy, not wars of freedom. Whilst I have every sympathy for our soldiers fighting in these conflicts, they are being asked to fight on a pack of lies, deceit, subterfuge, propaganda and profit, they are as far from "freedom" as you'll get. To be fair to McClean, whilst I don't support his argument per se, I am of the opinion that the British government have hardly covered themselves in glory since the end of the 2nd world war. However, if someone feels so passionately about the ills one Country's government have placed one one's own peoples, I do question why they would choose to live and work in the Country they so despise. Should he wear a poppy on his football shirt? I'd question why poppies are appearing as embroidered items on a football shirt in the first place. That is not the place for them, it's a marketing ploy of the Premier League and the sooner they do away with them the better. Since when did this become an accepted tradition. Sorry, it ain't for me. And McClean can do whatever the hell he likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iV8X8ubGCc&sns=tw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 JET didn't have one on his shirt either, is everyone going to make a big fuss about him as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miah Dennehy Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Well we have at least got this in common, my father was also on those convoys, and i still visit the seamans memorial just to rub his plaque, as for the poppy debate, as others have said we have freedom of choice, mainly due to the sacrifices made by the few.....i choose to wear one, I may see you there one day then, despite the fact that some may consider me a 'scum Celtic fan' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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