Port Said Red Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 A very selfish way to attempt to take your own life, mental illness or not. Should not involve some random poor bloke behind the wheel. Yes it was, it may have been his way of covering it up as a suicide attempt. My brother (see earlier post) admitted to me that he had considered several ways of making any suicide attempt to look like an accident. One reason was he didn't want people to think he had taken "the cowards way out" and the other was to try and ensure that his family got any life assurance due. I know it sounds strange but it just shows how peoples minds can work when under such strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Ralf Little has a point however My view is that no matter your illness, 5 TIMES being done for drunk driving!!! How was he ever allowed to drink again, clearly a man with serious issues but shouldn't been allowed in a car, clearly he has learned from his past lessons. My thoughts are with the family of the poor lorry driver who has no doubt been scarred by the disgusting selfish behaviour of Carlisle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Ralf Little has a point however My view is that no matter your illness, 5 TIMES being done for drunk driving!!! How was he ever allowed to drink again, clearly a man with serious issues but shouldn't been allowed in a car, clearly he has learned from his past lessons. My thoughts are with the family of the poor lorry driver who has no doubt been scarred by the disgusting selfish behaviour of Carlisle. Despite people getting on their high horse about what Little said, he's clearly a lot closer to the issue than most people, and it's hard to argue with a lot of what he wrote. People make Carlisle out to be some brave soul but what about the innocent people who have been harmed or scarred by his actions when driving drunk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 A very selfish way to attempt to take your own life, mental illness or not. Should not involve some random poor bloke behind the wheel. This all day long! Wonder how the driver is dealing with what happened? Can't imagine he/she will forget it anytime soon. Could affect them carrying on doing their job, supporting their family etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 A very selfish way to attempt to take your own life, mental illness or not. Should not involve some random poor bloke behind the wheel. Glad someone has the balls to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 joe public do get help but the person in question needs to admit they have a problem and seek it, its hard to spot, and even harder to talk openly about it, Everyone who suffers with it can react differently, It's not as clear cut as admitting there is a problem. You feel you are not good enough for those people that love you. You reason that they would be better off without you. Admitting this makes you feel even more useless, which is why suffers won't openly talk about it. This can create a dangerous cycle of internal monologue where the sufferer can only see one logical, to them, way out. Suicide. Depression can be easier to treat if caught early in this cycle. Loved ones need to react to signs of depression and seek advice on how to support and handle the situation. If it gets to the case where you feel the depressed person is at risk to themselves or others and won't consent to treatment they can and should be sectioned. You will only really see people openly admit to depression once they are showing signs of recovery. A lot of the time they will need that push towards treatment. that will never happen, sad but true, I don't think that's completely true, there is some fantastic support through the Mind and other organisations available to those who need it. However when it comes to mental health the NHS is shit! People wait too long for psychiatric referral. Depression is a very private illness, so a lot of the support people receive goes unnoticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I used to work with Billy Bremner's brother in law. When Billy retired from playing he apparently just couldn't accept that there was no longer 40,000 people cheering for him and all wanting a piece of him. He gradually became a loner who (apparently) slowly drank himself to death. If true that is so sad. The guy captained the controversial yet great Leeds teams of the 1970s and also his country. It seems to be a profession where some guys really struggle when they have to give it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 A very selfish way to attempt to take your own life, mental illness or not. Should not involve some random poor bloke behind the wheel. Yes it is selfish! However this is symptom of severe depression and not a character trait. Shame about the actions you have taken can add to the depression and make it harder to recover. As posters have said before mental illnesses will affect different people in a variety of ways, but they should be treated and not condemned for their actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 In many cases of depression the sufferer will completely lose sight of anything outside of their own world which is why some commit suicide regardless of the effect that will have on those who care and love them. As a psychiatric nurse for my entire working life I saw and witnessed several suicides and I also saw many sufferers attempt suicide but fail. Sometimes it was an OD others self harmed with a razor or knife or others tried to hang themselves. Now (and this might be seen as controversial) there are many ways of committing suicide that will be succesful. I won't label them here but suffice to say that if someone is determined to take there own life then they will do it. In Carlilses case his attempt end his life by throwing himself under a car failed. So what does that suggest? To me it says that he needs professional help - professional help that he was unable to ask for because he didn't feel worthy enough. No doubt in his depression he felt worthless and that no-one would care or be interested so he ended up attempting suicide and that led to the professional help that he needs. A cry for help in other words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 In many cases of depression the sufferer will completely lose sight of anything outside of their own world which is why some commit suicide regardless of the effect that will have on those who care and love them. As a psychiatric nurse for my entire working life I saw and witnessed several suicides and I also saw many sufferers attempt suicide but fail. Sometimes it was an OD others self harmed with a razor or knife or others tried to hang themselves. Now (and this might be seen as controversial) there are many ways of committing suicide that will be succesful. I won't label them here but suffice to say that if someone is determined to take there own life then they will do it. In Carlilses case his attempt end his life by throwing himself under a car failed. So what does that suggest? To me it says that he needs professional help - professional help that he was unable to ask for because he didn't feel worthy enough. No doubt in his depression he felt worthless and that no-one would care or be interested so he ended up attempting suicide and that led to the professional help that he needs. A cry for help in other words. Your first paragraph is spot on, and massively important for people to understand. As someone else put...yes it's selfish, but unfortunately this is a symptom and not a character trait. Hope the guys find the help he needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Unless someone has an underlying health issue I wouldn't feel sorry for them. I'm not sure the general public get much help and, for the most part, they crack on with life. Football at the top is too easy and you have people who need to learn a few hard lessons about waking up and facing the real world. Not convinced it requires the softly, softly approach. Disabled people, unemployed people with young families, redundancy in your 50s. Far more worthy of sympathy. The problem in a nutshell. Thanks for inadvertently highlighting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsontour Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 A very selfish way to attempt to take your own life, mental illness or not. Should not involve some random poor bloke behind the wheel. Wow...just wow. I'm staggered by the fact that many people, not just you, are stating it's a "selfish" way to commit suicide? Suicide is, by its very nature, the most selfish thing that any person can attempt if it effects just 1 other person, be that a family member, a friend, or the driver of a train that cuts them in two. For that reason perhaps you may like to consider that the illness of depression doesn't place "am I being selfish" at the top of the pros & cons list when deciding to to chuck yourself into the path of a moving truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WithywoodRed Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I read he debated whether to do it in the manner that he did, jump in front of a train or jump in a river. I wonder why out of the three he chose the lorry. Definitely better methods imo(success rate). Good luck for the future nonetheless. Watched his documentary a few weeks ago as it happens, he really looks like he has got a hold of himself in it eg. breaking down at the spot where he first tried to do himself in and talking about how he didnt realise what it wouldve done to his family. Horrible illness. Think his family need to have a word about the drink now too - probably should've even before this incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Everyone's issues are their own. You cant look at the catalyst and judge it, you have to just accept how depression manifests itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Sums up that *****. Bollocks. He's got a point. Clarke clearly has demons but to drink drive 5 times (that he's been caught for) shows no remorse. If that was joe public we'd be in prison. Then to throw himself infront of a lorry? Incredibly selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Bollocks. He's got a point. Clarke clearly has demons but to drink drive 5 times (that he's been caught for) shows no remorse. If that was joe public we'd be in prison. Then to throw himself infront of a lorry? Incredibly selfish. That's what I take issue with - how can someone drink drive 5 times and be a free man? Risking people's lives on multiple occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky89 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 From an outsiders view, it looks selfish. He may be Intelligent, articulate, yes, but you need to understand this is a MENTAL illness. He genuinely believed by stepping in front of that lorry that he was doing the right/best thing for his loved ones, you, me and the lorry driver. As far as he was concerned, at that time, it was the most selfless thing to do for the world by removing himself. It proves how closed to mental illness people still are to band about such words as selfish. I'm not saying it's right, my main sympathies go to the lorry driver - he's no doubt mentally scarred himself after the ordeal. It's like saying a cancer patient losing their hair is selfish, when everyone prefers them with a full head. It's out of their control, and not their choice. Radical example, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 From an outsiders view, it looks selfish. He may be Intelligent, articulate, yes, but you need to understand this is a MENTAL illness. He genuinely believed by stepping in front of that lorry that he was doing the right/best thing for his loved ones, you, me and the lorry driver. As far as he was concerned, at that time, it was the most selfless thing to do for the world by removing himself. It proves how closed to mental illness people still are to band about such words as selfish. I'm not saying it's right, my main sympathies go to the lorry driver - he's no doubt mentally scarred himself after the ordeal. It's like saying a cancer patient losing their hair is selfish, when everyone prefers them with a full head. It's out of their control, and not their choice. Radical example, I know.Seems ignorant that the decision making abilities of a man who has thrown himself in front of a moving lorry are brought into question. It would be judged as an insane decision by an insane person by any consultant I've ever known and that's just the point. How the system has allowed him to drink and drive at least five times is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Bollocks. He's got a point. Clarke clearly has demons but to drink drive 5 times (that he's been caught for) shows no remorse. If that was joe public we'd be in prison. Then to throw himself infront of a lorry? Incredibly selfish. I fully expect him to pull down a short stretch. Being depressed ain't an excuse for serial drink driving. Little's view of CC is supported by a couple of people I know who know him. He's not a popular chap, let's say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatchers Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 It was the "looks of ronaldo" that done it. But then it could be the "porn star", was'nt he into sharing Grannies with Shrek (rooney) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Couldn't help feeling so sorry for the family of Gary Speed when depression got the better of him... Mixed emotions from me... The natural regret for the man himself and his suffering, but (& specially during the massive outpouring of public grief and support at the time, nationwide 'minutes' applause etc at grounds everywhere) I couldn't help thinking what a selfish person he was at the end to not only commit suicide but the manner he chose to do it - knowing full well that it would be a family member/ loved one who would ultimately discover hi us hanging body in the family home. Sorry to admit, while understanding his mind was disturbed and couldn't possibly have been thinking remotely normally at the time, during the huge respect and RIPs shown him the phrase in my mind was 'selfish bastard'! .... God knows what the trauma of discovery does to 'loved ones' when people decide to end it all in this manner... Imagine finding someone close to you hanging in your home.. Awful. Involving participation of other innocent people ie: train drivers, truckers etc is equally an awful choice... there are less selfish or cruel (to others) ways to end it all when sadly some people are driven to those depths of despair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rizzle Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Little's comments may be a bit soon but offer an interesting insight and perspective. Think he has a point. I have always been a fan of CC and recently read his autobiography. He does, for all his intellgience, however seem a bit stupid sometimes. For example i get the impression he's shit with money and certainly has lots of demons. He's clearly got a problem with the drink too but there's no way someone should still be allowed to drive after 5 convictions. Makes a farce out of the whole offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 He should have been in jail for being caught drink driving so many times, sorry cant feel any sympathy for someone who has so little regard for others safety, no matter how nice a bloke he is in front of a TV camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Couldn't help feeling so sorry for the family of Gary Speed when depression got the better of him... Strange how Speed gets added into the debate. It wasn't established he took his own life in an act of suicide and much of the evidence particularly his demeanor shortly before his death called such an act into question. There are other reasons suspension takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Net Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 From an outsiders view, it looks selfish. He may be Intelligent, articulate, yes, but you need to understand this is a MENTAL illness. He genuinely believed by stepping in front of that lorry that he was doing the right/best thing for his loved ones, you, me and the lorry driver. As far as he was concerned, at that time, it was the most selfless thing to do for the world by removing himself. It proves how closed to mental illness people still are to band about such words as selfish. I'm not saying it's right, my main sympathies go to the lorry driver - he's no doubt mentally scarred himself after the ordeal. It's like saying a cancer patient losing their hair is selfish, when everyone prefers them with a full head. It's out of their control, and not their choice. Radical example, I know. I have walked in those shoes, and convinced myself that ending my life would actually provide a better life for my family. When you are in the darkest of dark places, there is no room for logical thoughts or compassion in your head, your sole desire is to opt out of life. I still hold some resentment for my family, because a quirk of fate led to them realising that I was uncontactable, and, although I'd not shared my thoughts with anybody, they became concerned and the Police broke into my house. Three years down the line, I've had lots of involvement from the Mental Health team, and still see the Psychologist weekly. My life has totally changed, although football is one of the few things that I still feel a connection with, and this gives me hope that other pieces will fall into place, and I'll be a "normal" person again. I truly hope that lorry driver receives all the support he needs, as his life will have been changed forever. It is not a method I would have chosen, as I planned very meticulously, in advance, and had dismissed anything which would involve an innocent person. However, knowing how the brain removes all other emotions, I can understand how this does happen, and it has nothing to do with people being "selfish". I am amazed that somebody was allowed to get behind the wheel again, after previously having 4 DD convictions, but this is a separate issue to his mental health problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gakoe Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I have walked in those shoes, and convinced myself that ending my life would actually provide a better life for my family. When you are in the darkest of dark places, there is no room for logical thoughts or compassion in your head, your sole desire is to opt out of life. I still hold some resentment for my family, because a quirk of fate led to them realising that I was uncontactable, and, although I'd not shared my thoughts with anybody, they became concerned and the Police broke into my house. Three years down the line, I've had lots of involvement from the Mental Health team, and still see the Psychologist weekly. My life has totally changed, although football is one of the few things that I still feel a connection with, and this gives me hope that other pieces will fall into place, and I'll be a "normal" person again. I truly hope that lorry driver receives all the support he needs, as his life will have been changed forever. It is not a method I would have chosen, as I planned very meticulously, in advance, and had dismissed anything which would involve an innocent person. However, knowing how the brain removes all other emotions, I can understand how this does happen, and it has nothing to do with people being "selfish". I am amazed that somebody was allowed to get behind the wheel again, after previously having 4 DD convictions, but this is a separate issue to his mental health problems. A very honest post. Glad you are receiving the help you require and that you can see a future for yourself. Good luck mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 The problem with depression and other mental illnesses is that people assume they can understand the thought process if the sufferer. There is nothing logical. Even the act of suicide is perceived as selfless, as they genuinely believe the people lives around them would be improved without them there. Don't be fooled as well be out ward expressions either. One of my best friends has battled with depression, but is seen by many as an outgoing confident individual. This persona was/is as he saw his true emotions as a weekness. He is battling his daemons..... But it took him years to open up and confess this and no-one saw it coming. This is why mental health issues are so dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I have walked in those shoes, and convinced myself that ending my life would actually provide a better life for my family. When you are in the darkest of dark places, there is no room for logical thoughts or compassion in your head, your sole desire is to opt out of life. I still hold some resentment for my family, because a quirk of fate led to them realising that I was uncontactable, and, although I'd not shared my thoughts with anybody, they became concerned and the Police broke into my house. Three years down the line, I've had lots of involvement from the Mental Health team, and still see the Psychologist weekly. My life has totally changed, although football is one of the few things that I still feel a connection with, and this gives me hope that other pieces will fall into place, and I'll be a "normal" person again. I truly hope that lorry driver receives all the support he needs, as his life will have been changed forever. It is not a method I would have chosen, as I planned very meticulously, in advance, and had dismissed anything which would involve an innocent person. However, knowing how the brain removes all other emotions, I can understand how this does happen, and it has nothing to do with people being "selfish". I am amazed that somebody was allowed to get behind the wheel again, after previously having 4 DD convictions, but this is a separate issue to his mental health problems. That's a very brave post INN. I'm glad you are now in a happier place - even if your team isn't! Remember you are surrounded by friends: here and in "real life". Friends are the lubrication that makes the pistons of life run smoothly. Just to correct one thing in a number of posts: my understanding is CC didn't "jump" in front of a lorry. He was walking down an unlit road when the passing lorry clipped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I have walked in those shoes, and convinced myself that ending my life would actually provide a better life for my family. When you are in the darkest of dark places, there is no room for logical thoughts or compassion in your head, your sole desire is to opt out of life. I still hold some resentment for my family, because a quirk of fate led to them realising that I was uncontactable, and, although I'd not shared my thoughts with anybody, they became concerned and the Police broke into my house. Three years down the line, I've had lots of involvement from the Mental Health team, and still see the Psychologist weekly. My life has totally changed, although football is one of the few things that I still feel a connection with, and this gives me hope that other pieces will fall into place, and I'll be a "normal" person again. I truly hope that lorry driver receives all the support he needs, as his life will have been changed forever. It is not a method I would have chosen, as I planned very meticulously, in advance, and had dismissed anything which would involve an innocent person. However, knowing how the brain removes all other emotions, I can understand how this does happen, and it has nothing to do with people being "selfish". I am amazed that somebody was allowed to get behind the wheel again, after previously having 4 DD convictions, but this is a separate issue to his mental health problems. Wow. Just goes to show what we don't know about one another on here. I'm glad you're getting the support you need. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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