Red-Robbo Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 That's not what you said. If you'd sat through as many court cases as me. Errrrrrrrr.......... OK, perhaps you have had a job that involves sitting through lots of court hearings, liaising with police, lawyers and often hearing evidence that wasn't put to the jury, but you've never mentioned it before. For two years I spent every working day in Winchester Crown Court (and I've reported court before then and did afterwards), so I think I can say I have some experience. The point that seems to elude you, is that people are entitled to form an opinion other than that which was formed by the 12 jurors hearing the case. Jurors can and do get things wrong and so do the police and judges and barristers and so - for that matter - might I on this occasion, but just because "a court has decided" doesn't mean the matter cannot be debated and opinions proffered. I have already said that the evidence surrounding his arrival at the hotel and exit suggests to me he's guilty, and I've said anything I think has the caveat that I was not in court and may have missed all sorts of nuances (the same applies to you of course) BUT I do not think were I a juror I'd be able to say that there wasn't a smidgeon of doubt in my mind as to what happened in that Rhyl hotel room 10-months before, in the crucial time that neither I nor anyone else witnessed. Sorry if that enrages you. It's called having an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Did anyone know this girl had accused a ruby player of rape 18 months before the ched evans case Even if she did so what? If we assume she did and even if we assume she did and that was a fabrication.... she didn't accuse Ched Evans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Even if she did so what? If we assume she did and even if we assume she did and that was a fabrication.... she didn't accuse Ched Evans. I expect he saw it on Twitter. Anything on twitter is true don't you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yes. :laugh: that's ludicrous surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 How do you 'know' that ? I expect he saw it on Twitter. Anything on twitter is true don't you know its going to be part of the appeal apparently ,also the cctv from the premiere inn where the prosecution said the girl was so drunk she struggled to walk etc, but can be seen in the footage to be very coherent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 its going to be part of the appeal apparently ,also the cctv from the premiere inn where the prosecution said the girl was so drunk she struggled to walk etc, but can be seen in the footage to be very coherent Goodness, it's like drawing blood. How do you know it will part of the appeal? To make it clear, I'm asking for a source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Goodness, it's like drawing blood. How do you know it will part of the appeal? To make it clear, I'm asking for a source. do some reserch you lazy git ,some from here http://chedevans.com/ and some online, iam not saying he didnt do it mind, but if you take the time to read up on the case its not so crystal as most think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 do some reserch you lazy git ,some from here http://chedevans.com/ and some online, iam not saying he didnt do it mind, but if you take the time to read up on the case its not so crystal as most think Because that website is oh so neutral about it I'll ask people again, anyone explain to me as the victim of a rape case how she'd 'win big' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yeah she's really won big, living in her 5th secret location on her 5th identity, away from all her friends and family. We'd all like to live like that yeah? Anyone getting their information from the rapists own website needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i take it thats aimed at me if so you need to get off your high horse and read what i wrote duhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 do some reserch you lazy git ,some from here http://chedevans.com/ and some online, iam not saying he didnt do it mind, but if you take the time to read up on the case its not so crystal as most think Haha! That's solid research you've done there my friend. You call me lazy but I have read the transcript from the case AND the appeal. Have you? You have read a website made by Ched Evans' family and some stuff online (probably blogs or Twitter). You are typical of the Neanderthals that are defending this rapist by using anything they can get their hands on to do so, irrespective of where it has come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i take it thats aimed at me if so you need to get off your high horse and read what i wrote duhhh You wrote that people needed to do their research, but then the only link you posted was to the rapists website so that's hardly going to be a balanced view now is it? The attorney General is currently investigating whether the website should even be there in the first place given its content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 OK, perhaps you have had a job that involves sitting through lots of court hearings, liaising with police, lawyers and often hearing evidence that wasn't put to the jury, but you've never mentioned it before. For two years I spent every working day in Winchester Crown Court (and I've reported court before then and did afterwards), so I think I can say I have some experience. The point that seems to elude you, is that people are entitled to form an opinion other than that which was formed by the 12 jurors hearing the case. Jurors can and do get things wrong and so do the police and judges and barristers and so - for that matter - might I on this occasion, but just because "a court has decided" doesn't mean the matter cannot be debated and opinions proffered. I have already said that the evidence surrounding his arrival at the hotel and exit suggests to me he's guilty, and I've said anything I think has the caveat that I was not in court and may have missed all sorts of nuances (the same applies to you of course) BUT I do not think were I a juror I'd be able to say that there wasn't a smidgeon of doubt in my mind as to what happened in that Rhyl hotel room 10-months before, in the crucial time that neither I nor anyone else witnessed. Sorry if that enrages you. It's called having an opinion. it doesn't enrage me, but I suspect you will find that a vast majority of jury trials that come up with an odd result is almost always in the form of a not guilty verdict. I cannot think of an appeal overturning original jury verdicts because they got it wrong, in fact I cannot believe that would even be grounds for an appeal, all appeals involve either, new evidence coming to light, suppression of evidence by police/prosecution, fabrication of evidence by police/witnesses, later discrediting of witnesses, Police or forensic/medical/expert witnesses, Judges directing juries wrongly, procedural and a host of other reasons, like if this appeal is successful his original defence team were obviously unfit for purpose. None of the above can be laid at the feet of juries. The reality is if 12 independent people arrive at the same conclusion and that conclusion turns out to be a wrong conclusion, one or more of the above or something else has gone wrong, the notion that 12 independent people can all get a verdict wrong off of their own backs is frankly ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Haha! That's solid research you've done there my friend. You call me lazy but I have read the transcript from the case AND the appeal. Have you? You have read a website made by Ched Evans' family and some stuff online (probably blogs or Twitter). You are typical of the Neanderthals that are defending this rapist by using anything they can get their hands on to do so, irrespective of where it has come from. i think you need to read my post again..... as for defending the rapist ... laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 You wrote that people needed to do their research, but then the only link you posted was to the rapists website so that's hardly going to be a balanced view now is it? The attorney General is currently investigating whether the website should even be there in the first place given its content. if you want to twist my post around to suit your agenda carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 As a matter of interest, if a website (in this case Evans') website states something as 'the facts' when they're not, is there a libel issue? ps Dave, insults aren't necessary in a grown-up debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i take it thats aimed at me if so you need to get off your high horse and read what i wrote duhhh I suggest you wind your neck in and find some manners if you want to partake in debate on here. I've only read two of your posts, in one you call someone a 'lazy git' and in this one you are insulting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I suggest you wind your neck in and find some manners if you want to partake in debate on here. I've only read two of your posts, in one you call someone a 'lazy git' and in this one you are insulting too. so what do you find insulting on this post is the the high horse quote or duhhh??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I suggest you wind your neck in and find some manners if you want to partake in debate on here. I've only read two of your posts, in one you call someone a 'lazy git' and in this one you are insulting too. You should wind yours in and stop acting like a forum Nazi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 As a matter of interest, if a website (in this case Evans') website states something as 'the facts' when they're not, is there a libel issue? Yes hence the victims father writing to the attorney general to investigate. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30698382 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yeah I beleive it's being investigated with possible contempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Right OK, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I heard the appeal is based around the contents of chedevans.com so looks like he's going to be acquitted. Clever stuff Ched. Very clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 You should wind yours in and stop acting like a forum Nazi Maybe you and bend it might like to voluntarily take your forum contributions elsewhere, somewhere suitable like the playground perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Maybe you and bend it might like to voluntarily take your forum contributions elsewhere, somewhere suitable like the playground perhaps. very witty , you still haven't answered my question re post 789 thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 very witty , you still haven't answered my question re post 789 thanks Here's a question for you, where was all of this earth shattering 'evidence' that now appears on Evans propaganda site, during the original trial?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 very witty , you still haven't answered my question re post 789 thanks If you really need it explaining to you you really need more help than I can give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Whilst I don't pretend to know the full ins and outs (pardon the pun) of this case (or the legal system) it seems rather odd to me that two people can have sex whilst inebriated, then the next morning one of them say they didn't want to do it and then the other goes to prison - without there being overwhelming medical evidence of non-consent. Reading a link I found in this page of the details, it says that a doctors report said there were no injuries of any kind to the victim on examination the following morning (presumably because she was so drunk that even if she didn't consent, injuring her (i.e. by forcible restraint) was unneccesary. Ultimately no one other than Ched Evans and the lady in question are possibly able to know beyond all doubt whether consent was granted or not, so it seems bizarre to me that he was able to be convicted. As I say, this is just from the very few facts of the case I know, and that is not much as I openly admit. It's more the theory I'm struggling with than the actual case in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bend it like brian Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 If you really need it explaining to you you really need more help than I can give. is that the best you can come up with...poor from you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 is that the best you can come up with...poor from you When you're in a hole, it's probably best to stop digging. You are however doing a very good job of derailing the thread instead of us all just going round in circles about the rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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