Phileas Fogg Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 So based on your ideal world, why did the "noisy demographic" not migrate to the Atyeo and create a home end atmosphere when they had the whole stand to themselves from 1994? Simply because fans lots of "types" (for want of a better word) of fans would have wanted the new facilities in the Atyeo at the time, same way as they will do next season. I find in general the fans that desire the better facilities, view etc are less fussed about the atmosphere and visa versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 So based on your ideal world, why did the "noisy demographic" not migrate to the Atyeo and create a home end atmosphere when they had the whole stand to themselves from 1994? Not being funny but if the whole of the Atyeo or a very large section had been made un- reserved from day one the whole culture of that stand would have been different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 RR was that document post roof amendment? Surely the restricted views mentioned were a reference to the soon-to-be-gone pillar?? It was from the original Development Control Minutes so possibly, yes, prior to the change with the roof structure. However, as per the same minutes, that area was always designated for community use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Oh good, another thread infested by the shill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 The new South stand will be like the current Ateyo stand. I'm Hoping and unreserved area is allocated somewhere in the dolman or corners of the new stand as you can't put fans that stand in with those that don't it won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Simply because fans lots of "types" (for want of a better word) of fans would have wanted the new facilities in the Atyeo at the time, same way as they will do next season. I find in general the fans that desire the better facilities, view etc are less fussed about the atmosphere and visa versa. So if the new south stand had poor sight lines, toilets with no roof and only one food outlet, you'd all be clambering to get in there? You quoted the stretford end, holte end, KOP etc as the type of stands you like......do you not think they have good facilities similar to what the South stand will offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 So if the new south stand had poor sight lines, toilets with no roof and only one food outlet, you'd all be clambering to get in there? You quoted the stretford end, holte end, KOP etc as the type of stands you like......do you not think they have good facilities similar to what the South stand will offer? I also mentioned the blackthorn terrace and the East end.. It doesn't apply to us really as at present we have fairly low standard facilities everywhere. The difference there is villa park, old Trafford and anfield all have premier league facilities. My point was about placing of those stands. I stand by my assumption though that in my experience, those who go for atmosphere are in general less bothered about facilities. For the record I wasn't in the east end myself and will go in the dolman/Williams probably when the rebuild is finished. Just think the Atyeo being redone would be the best solution for a large and important segment of our support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I also mentioned the blackthorn terrace and the East end.. It doesn't apply to us really as at present we have fairly low standard facilities everywhere. The difference there is villa park, old Trafford and anfield all have premier league facilities. My point was about placing of those stands. I stand by my assumption though that in my experience, those who go for atmosphere are in general less bothered about facilities. For the record I wasn't in the east end myself and will go in the dolman/Williams probably when the rebuild is finished. Just think the Atyeo being redone would be the best solution for a large and important segment of our support. Fair enough, until we see the fully redeveloped ground in motion for a season or two, we wont know how the dynamics will pan out Good to have a debate without descending into belitting someone who has a difference of opinion and petty name calling...... Oh good, another thread infested by the shill. Oh wait....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Fair enough, until we see the fully redeveloped ground in motion for a season or two, we wont know how the dynamics will pan out Good to have a debate without descending into belitting someone who has a difference of opinion and petty name calling...... Oh wait....... You're right, atmosphere at a ground is totally organic and grows over time. Palace have succeeded and I feel we need to look to them as a model as much as I hate to say it. Not copy them, but look at how they engage with their board to make it work. I have faith it will work out eventually! And thanks, this place is a bit mad but you can have enjoyable debate sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Come May/June of this year, the club will no doubt be releasing details of Season Tickets including the South Stand which will be marketed as the new 'home end'. All fans who purchase season tickets (around 8000?) will have a decision to make on where they want to sit. Fans will not get the opportunity to 'try before you buy' however, fans who want to sing/create an atmosphere will naturally migrate to that Stand. That may or may not include your 'group', so having bought a season ticket for the south stand with the intention of being part of creating atmosphere, what makes you think people will follow you or others elsewhere especially of the South Stand proves to be successful? The thread is about the "new" Eastend. Fans who formerly inhabited the stand have already moved to the Dolman rather than the Williams. Read this thread and others there is a picture forming regarding the Dolman. The South stand in comparison is already being mentioned as the family stand, and you yourself have ruled out a section as a "non-starter." Without these groups including those who do influence others the South stand will be more Atyeo than the new real home end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puckle_red Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 BS/BCFC had the opportunity for the home 'end' people mention but decided against it...that's their decision, people move on to other things. Dolman sounds a good shout depending on details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Traditionally the cheapest place in the ground housed the loudest voices, all crammed in together. A small area housed a large number of bodies, add in a bit of pushing and shoving and that was the Eastend of old. Obvious events changed this and all seaters were the law. With the South Stand being the newest stand, will it be that much cheaper than the Dolman/Williams? Obviously it being an end view rather than a side you would expect it to be slightly cheaper but certainly not old Eastend prices, not for the newest stand. You might think the South Stand is an obvious place for 'old eastenders' to gather, but I don't think it's going to be that simple. The Dolman upper I understand isn't going to be too different, same seats, same rake, same legroom (same sun in your eyes!)? I can envisage some Dolman people moving into the South Stand and most Williams people crossing over into the Dolman when the Williams is being developed. The 'mix' of fans is going to be up in the air for a while yet. As for standing, I thought the club as said there will strictly be no standing when the stand is ready, unless the law changes? If they intend to be as intolerant as I understand there will be a few scuffles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 The thread is about the "new" Eastend. Fans who formerly inhabited the stand have already moved to the Dolman rather than the Williams. Read this thread and others there is a picture forming regarding the Dolman. The South stand in comparison is already being mentioned as the family stand, and you yourself have ruled out a section as a "non-starter." Without these groups including those who do influence others the South stand will be more Atyeo than the new real home end. Again, you are talking like your group of fans are the only people who create or want to create an atmosphere. Whilst you and your followers may well go to the dolman, there are no doubt thousands of others from all parts of the ground that will migrate to the south stand snd help create a home end. I have no idea where you get the idea that the south stand is being mentioned as a family stand. Other than the community corner (800 seats), there are another 6000 in the main structure, why else would the clob promote that stand as an area for safe standing unless it fully intended it to be a "home end" Whether you and your followers will be there or not, that is what the South stand will becone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Seeing photos of the new stand, the CEO of Bristol Sport whinging about the atmosphere and issues of mixing the singers with librarians and prawn sandwich eaters got me thinking about the future. May have been suggested before but why not put the standers/singers (i.e. those who create the atmosphere and enhance the spectating experience for all- including the CEO by the looks of things) in the corner block of the new stand where the original East End was established? Bit of a historical link, won't get in anyone's way and good for the cameras who'll be able to show our passionate supporters. Could work the dedicated singing blocks as unreserved seating except for Cat A games.... where everyone would have to sit in their prescribed season ticket seat or POTD seat. Cat A games could be clearly advertised in advance with a few signs above the turnstiles and facing the crowd on match day. Simples, happy fans, happy CEO (with the added bonus of the vocal home and away fans having stadium entry points as far away from eachother as poss) and more points in the bag for the team. You might want to contact the Supporters Trust who have put forward their own suggestions regarding the South stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydneybcfc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Away fans will have almost exclusive use of the Atyeo when development is complete, with a 27k capacity we will be obliged to offer 2700 away seats for league (10%) and i think 4000 (15%) for cup games (although i could be wrong with the cup games). The Atyeo is the only stand they can go in with a capacity of 4249 or you will have to give them 50%+ of the Dolman (especially after segregation) currently 6100 and i'm not sure of the final figure after development. Once the ground is complete i expect the Atyeo to be closed to home fans unless its a sell out, the segregation and stewarding needed just isn't worth the bother when the other 3 stands will have 1000s of empty seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Good to have a debate without descending into belitting someone who has a difference of opinion and petty name calling...... That post is like a spot the mistake competition where the Queen is wearing a crash helmet instead of a crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I have no idea where you get the idea that the south stand is being mentioned as a family stand. People on this forum have dubbed the South stand Atyeo II but I have gleaned my view from the remarks of people involved in the Fans Parliament, from the remarks of the Supporters Trust, from attending "consultations" back in 2013, and from listening to the heads of BS/BCFC in the DEH recently it is easy to get an idea of what the South stand will not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Traditionally the cheapest place in the ground housed the loudest voices, all crammed in together. A small area housed a large number of bodies, add in a bit of pushing and shoving and that was the Eastend of old. Obvious events changed this and all seaters were the law. With the South Stand being the newest stand, will it be that much cheaper than the Dolman/Williams? Obviously it being an end view rather than a side you would expect it to be slightly cheaper but certainly not old Eastend prices, not for the newest stand. You might think the South Stand is an obvious place for 'old eastenders' to gather, but I don't think it's going to be that simple. The Dolman upper I understand isn't going to be too different, same seats, same rake, same legroom (same sun in your eyes!)? I can envisage some Dolman people moving into the South Stand and most Williams people crossing over into the Dolman when the Williams is being developed. The 'mix' of fans is going to be up in the air for a while yet. As for standing, I thought the club as said there will strictly be no standing when the stand is ready, unless the law changes? If they intend to be as intolerant as I understand there will be a few scuffles. I think the sun will be less of a problem once the new williams stand is fully built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think the sun will be less of a problem once the new williams stand is fully built.Bloody hell, the Ashton Gate rebuild is going to help with global warming! I hope Steve Lansdown gets a knighthood for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Bloody hell, the Ashton Gate rebuild is going to help with global warming! I hope Steve Lansdown gets a knighthood for this. well I have been told that the stand is going to be so high you can almost touch the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Why don't they have the centre block designated as a singing section and highlighted as such to any new season ticket purchasers in that area, so that the main emphasis is on selling seats to singers. We don't want another situation like when the Attyeo opened, with a mixture of families and the more boisterous vocal supporters, that only frustrates and causes friction. Perhaps no under sixteens in the central blocks, or only the front few rows for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 well I have been told that the stand is going to be so high you can almost touch the sun. I hope it's heat resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Why don't they have the centre block designated as a singing section and highlighted as such to any new season ticket purchasers in that area, so that the main emphasis is on selling seats to singers. We don't want another situation like when the Attyeo opened, with a mixture of families and the more boisterous vocal supporters, that only frustrates and causes friction. Perhaps no under sixteens in the central blocks, or only the front few rows for them.Because when they stand up they will block the views of people sitting in the corners - i. e. if play is in the left hand corner, people standing in the middle with block the view of those sitting in the right corner, and vice versa. The logical place for a singing section (which unofficially means a standing section) is at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Because when they stand up they will block the views of people sitting in the corners - i. e. if play is in the left hand corner, people standing in the middle with block the view of those sitting in the right corner, and vice versa. The logical place for a singing section (which unofficially means a standing section) is at the back. I understand that, so how many seats do you think would be enough to cater for everyone that wants to sing/stand up? The middle section holds just over four thousand, so to have no effect on other people, you'd have to spread them along every block. to achieve a figure similar to the old EE. Can't see that happening though. Effectively the powers that be are stating no singing section, as they'd stand, just as happens in the prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 The only way I see it working is for the whole South Stand to be unreserved seating from the start. I realise this is unlikely but hate the idea of designated 'singing sections' and the like. These things should happen organically within the crowd and won't get a chance to get going with reserved seats. Reserved seating could then be introduced (if it really has to be) once the stand has been open a few seasons and people know what to expect in each area. There is nothing worse than an artificially created atmosphere. Fans being loud and creating a proper atmosphere should be encouraged by the club, not organised by them, and the only way to truly encourage a good atmosphere is to make the home fans stand at one end unreserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 For me, unreserved is the key. Things will bed down and there's enough room In that stand for all types to be catered for. As time goes on, people will know what to expect from the different areas in the stand so could have little complaint if it's too noisey, not noisey enough, or full of kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted January 16, 2015 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 An interesting article on unreserved seating appeared on the Doncaster Rovers website on Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I understand that, so how many seats do you think would be enough to cater for everyone that wants to sing/stand up? The middle section holds just over four thousand, so to have no effect on other people, you'd have to spread them along every block. to achieve a figure similar to the old EE. Can't see that happening though. Effectively the powers that be are stating no singing section, as they'd stand, just as happens in the prem.There used to be approx 1k - 1.5k singing (standing) in the Wedlock, so the back 50% of the new south stand should be sufficient. When there were plans to have safe standing at the front of the new stand, there were many complaints from the East Enders, as they said they wanted to be at the back. In theory, making the rear 50% unreserved singing (standing) should be a simple solution, but I don't think the club wants it. It would have been better to have built a two tier stand so that the segregation between reserved and unreserved seating was clearly defined. There's still time to change the design slightly so that one row between to reserved and unreserved areas is empty to clearly show the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 The 10% reduction for unreserved areas is common to all grounds, and is imposed by the safety authorities. That's why top clubs who regularly sell out don't have them. Gate receipts are a vital source of revenue in order for us to buy better players and we're not going to turn away potential income in a season when we will hope to be close to a sell out every game. That's not to say that we wouldn't consider it in the future, but there will be no unreserved area next season. That is 100% definite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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