NickJ Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Never met the guy but he's wondering why we have less younger fans.Outside of computer games, most normal kids want excitement and a sense of rebelliousness. You don't get that from identikit scarve waving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Here we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie from barrow gurney Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Step away from the alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Step away from the alcohol.Ha fair comment but do you not mean "sense of entitlement"? We could start that number again.My point is a serious one as a City fan and concerned for the future, I have just read the FAN meeting minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacker Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Maybe the whole Sky/Premier League overkill has a lot to answer for.I would hate to think how many young un's could tell you who plays for Chelsea,Man City etc and the name of their stadiums, but probably couldn't name a City player(even the reserve keeper)or Ashton Gate.Struggling to see how this will improve to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Never met the guy but he's wondering why we have less younger fans. Outside of computer games, most normal kids want excitement and a sense of rebelliousness. You don't get that from identikit scarve waving. Too many children watching Premier league via the parent's Sky contract? The dismal results between 2009 and December 2013. Enough to put any youngsters off going. My god it was hard enough for the senior lifelong supporters to stomach it. Poor stadium and facilities? Poor public transport to Ashton Gate? All other clubs in Leagues One and Two and below have the same problem. Aging supporter base and all the same reasons as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Never met the guy but he's wondering why we have less younger fans. Outside of computer games, most normal kids want excitement and a sense of rebelliousness. You don't get that from identikit scarve waving. I wonder if the haters would have been as tedious as this if the old "east end" network would have came up with the scarf idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Which is why there has to be a reason to make them want to come.If I were a kid being told where and when to wave my fire resistant flag just wouldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark43 Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Scarves and evil Bristol Sport again...... seriously..... yawn..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Scarves and evil Bristol Sport again...... seriously..... yawn..... Go to bed then. My point is a serious one like it or not. If you think I am wrong, and you are so dismissively clever, what solutions do you have for AB's dilemma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark43 Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Over 30 minutes without a reply to your thread and the second I reply you're right on it, desperate for your tedious little argument. You had your moan the other week about this but you're desperate to moan about the same thing again and again. Maybe the young 'uns don't want to come because they're surrounded by moaners. Any yes I will go to bed, thank goodness I don't visit this depressing place more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I wonder if the haters would have been as tedious as this if the old "east end" network would have came up with the scarf idea Why is this twisted in to the ''old east end'' thing again?? me personally, i am not bothered by people and their scarves, their choice. I was puzzled why the FREE scarves waved were not the FREE scarves being advertised the week running up to the game.. Also reading the SC&T survey ''them and us'' the other stands want what the so called ''old east enders'' have asked for. But as you mention it didn't the chap in the corner of the Atyeo push for scarves and waving?. But NickJ kids have much, much more to occupy their time with than i ever did as kid in the 70's and as for nailing down students long term is not really going to happen as most students are not from Bristol and already have their team illegance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 This student thing really gets my goat. They wont come, they never have and never will. If students were somehow the holy grail to filling the ground then why don't Cambridge and Oxford have 30,000 attendances every week? Go to every local school in and around Bristol and give 2-3000 or so free tickets away every week, that's your market right there. Students have their teams and are not in any way going to change them or continue to support us once the 3 years are over. It's a non starter, our last student season ticket attracted a massive 10 take up, whoopeee. I await the usual I know a bloke who finished his studies and..........., crap idea, move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Drunkenmark 2 replies and your only contribution is abuse. My point is a serious one because it ties in AB's concerns with recent events. Maybe just maybe there is a correlation. As CH says kids have other attractions. Are there more now though than we had in the 70's? I honestly don't think so. Kids now have computer games and twitter. We played subbuteo and hung around on street corners. Same things, different mediums. Kids will still come to live football if there is an attraction. Bristol City cannot offer Premiership stars but what it can offer is excitement for kids in a different way. Apologies if this offends drunkenmark and others with dismissive patronising comments but no actual suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Drunkenmark 2 replies and your only contribution is abuse. My point is a serious one because it ties in AB's concerns with recent events. Maybe just maybe there is a correlation. As CH says kids have other attractions. Are there more now though than we had in the 70's? I honestly don't think so. Kids now have computer games and twitter. We played subbuteo and hung around on street corners. Same things, different mediums. Kids will still come to live football if there is an attraction. Bristol City cannot offer Premiership stars but what it can offer is excitement for kids in a different way. Apologies if this offends drunkenmark and others with dismissive patronising comments but no actual suggestions. Fair points but i guess the way society is today i wouldn't let my kid hang around on street corners due to the increase in perverts, sad but true, would not let my kid anywhere near Rotherham (thats another storty best left alone). I guess cost of living these days does play a part. There is also history of match attendances at Ashton gate and contrary to popular belief City were not pulling 30-35k every week in the top flight, officially. Flicking through the City history books and looking at high gates the average appears to be 22k with a few 23-24k games but mostly popular were big games with big names ie; Liverpool, Man utd, Spurs, Man city, WBA, (And we are talking a lot of away fans to). First season in the top flight in 1976-77 out of the 21 home games 8 games peaked just over 25k In 1977-78 out of 21 home games again 8 games peaked just over 25k In 1978-79 out of 21 home games 7 games peaked just over 25k In 1979-80 out of 21 home games 3 games peaked just over 25k In 1980-81 out of 21 home games city failed to get anywhere near 20k let alone 25k In 1981-82 out of 21 home games city failed to get anywhere near 15k let alone 25k The promotion season to the top flight the average gate was around 12k which surprised me. In 1937-38 a gate of 38,066 seen city at home lose 1-0 to cardiff The best time for gates at Ashton gate was 1955 to 1960 City had 25k plus. So 27k in our revamped Ashton gate will take some doing in League 1 or the Championship let alone the prem, City have been drifting for years as a big attraction,, Looking at gates from 1982 to 2015 city don't get near 25k very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 This student thing really gets my goat. They wont come, they never have and never will. If students were somehow the holy grail to filling the ground then why don't Cambridge and Oxford have 30,000 attendances every week? Go to every local school in and around Bristol and give 2-3000 or so free tickets away every week, that's your market right there. Students have their teams and are not in any way going to change them or continue to support us once the 3 years are over. It's a non starter, our last student season ticket attracted a massive 10 take up, whoopeee. I await the usual I know a bloke who finished his studies and..........., crap idea, move on.The real niche market (I suspect there's a better business term for it) but call it the 'window of opportunity' is Bristol/regional kids between about the ages of 13-18. This is when people are most impressionable, this is when people are most searching for identity and this is when people are often not fully attached to a club. A locally born kid of 13 who has previously picked up Liverpool or Man Utd can still be saved. You have to remember many kids born in Bristol are first generation Bristolian, like myself. Their parents are often indifferent to football. To get them hooked, you need to offer them something to reaffirm their identity in their local club, a real sense of pride and belonging. A go too 'cool place' where the authorities are more lax; everything that that survey suggested the majority of people would like to see. Just as City are looking to build a side to be proud of and a superb ground, this is an ideal time to pounce! Seize the day, City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Never met the guy but he's wondering why we have less younger fans. Outside of computer games, most normal kids want excitement and a sense of rebelliousness. You don't get that from identikit scarve waving. Atmosphere down the gate is rubbish nowadays, my friends used to love coming in the east end but no longer will I be able to bring them along every so often due to the stance on not allowing an unreserved area. I believe AB said BS will be talking to other clubs about unreserved areas, but what should their opinion matter? It's our club and OUR fans would like a section unreserved, who the **** cares if Birmingham & Chesterfield don't like the idea. We should be individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Fair points but i guess the way society is today i wouldn't let my kid hang around on street corners due to the increase in perverts I suspect not more perverts just more of it being reported, human nature does not change, which returning to topic brings back to kids' need for excitement....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Never met the guy but he's wondering why we have less younger fans. Outside of computer games, most normal kids want excitement and a sense of rebelliousness. You don't get that from identikit scarve waving. I thought the scarves were great, Nick. Filled the ground with red and were a brilliant (literally) contrast to the dull, quiet bald middle-aged blokes in the Wham section. However, if, as you maintain, Billingham et al, don't really understand football culture, it's up to you guys who hold that opinion to tell him. I would be more involved if possible, but a young family, international workload and non-Bristol base makes it impossible. Engage. Tell the guy your views. As often as possible. WTMS tells me you guys have been knocked back and ignored. But it's only through cleverness, diplomacy, polite discourse that you'll ever achieve anything. SL is going nowhere, the club is successful, the umbrella organisation BS is going to continue. I guess my post is saying, I don't disapprove of your viewpoint, but be canny in your dealings with the club. As I said on another thread, you don't get anywhere by adopting an antagonistic attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 In itself I have nothing against club inspired scarve waving. Not my pantomime but everyone is free to do what they choose, but that is my point, the club telling fans how and when to wave a scarve has coincided with the stifling of individuality and responsible fan culture. As for telling the club officials my views if you mean face to face I have no problem with that have done it in a polite fashion on several occasions. But small meetings are easily brushed aside and forgotten about; forums such as this get views across more widely, efficiently, and permanently. From a personal perspective I'm not a Williams E-Block, wasn't an Eastender, but get what they're about. There comes a point where diplomacy and tact and all that becomes very wearing in the face of total unreasonableness, unwillingness to understand and obstinance. Mr Billingham and other club officials will most obviously read this, my message in a diplomatic, polite, non antagonistic way is, as the ST survey has shown, the majority of fans have a very different viewpoint on off the pitch matters than club officials appear to at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman2310 Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 My first game this season (due to being an expat...not that I should have to explain that before people moan) was the Yeovil game on Boxing Day and there were loads of 'young'uns' there...because we are winning! When I was a young'un I wouldn't have filled out a fan survey either, so not sure it is hugely representative of the young fan base. Not suggesting young fans don't matter, they are massively important, but winning is really all that matters for the future IMO. Some, like me, will get hooked through generations of family support but it's easy to support a Man Utd, Chelsea etc. They win. And (again) as someone who can't attend regularly the videos of the 5k at MK were class, hardly a pantomime organised by BS. Great support we should all be dead chuffed with. Can't wait to be back in a few weeks which are words I wasn't saying the last few seasons. BS are just an easy target as they are different. Agree with poster who said if 'East End' lot suggested freebie scarf waving there would be no complaints. Spot on, East End was good if you were in East End for 99% of games, but only registered in rest of AG if you were listening for it or a big game...when rest of of the ground joins in anyway. And students - complete waste of time. Students are already fans of other teams by that age, too late to convert except the odd game but they will do that without a big push. Will be a short experiment going down that road, cant see a student going down the Rovers unless they are away fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semblar Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Atmosphere down the gate is rubbish nowadays, my friends used to love coming in the east end but no longer will I be able to bring them along every so often due to the stance on not allowing an unreserved area.I believe AB said BS will be talking to other clubs about unreserved areas, but what should their opinion matter? It's our club and OUR fans would like a section unreserved, who the **** cares if Birmingham & Chesterfield don't like the idea. We should be individual. My take on this was that they were probably trying to build up evidence that the 10% reduction imposed by that safety committee is OTT - if dozens of other clubs do NOT have such a condition in their safety certificate then that is a powerful argument that the committee are overdoing their restrictions in the name of "elf 'n' safe tee" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Never met the guy but he's wondering why we have less younger fans.Outside of computer games, most normal kids want excitement and a sense of rebelliousness. You don't get that from identikit scarve waving. Zzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 What is being advocated instead then? What constitutes the "rebellious nature" advocated? They want a sense of excitement but apparently the football is not sufficient, perhaps they are not football fans then, perhaps they are just fans of having a few bevvies and jumping up and down and singing. Sounds like Saturday night at the Watershed to me, People showing their "rebellious nature" there get controlled by the authorities, why should that be any different at Ashton Gate? Bristol Sport have no chance of winning over some people, they are subduing the atmosphere in one sentence, then criticised for trying to manufacture one in the next. Whatever the club has done in the past to encourage a sustained increase in crowds (as opposed to the natural increase that comes from on field success) hasn't worked. BS could just sit back and say "oh well, thats Bristol for you" or they can try and encourage a change in mindset and attempt to bring in more people in a sustainable fashion. I am sure you will lose people along the way, in the same way that Chelsea seem to have lost the headhunters etc, but they have to try something don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I wonder if the haters would have been as tedious as this if the old "east end" network would have came up with the scarf idea Bristol Sport may turn out to be visionary but it is unlikely they invented scarves. Fans of Bristol City be they in the Atyeo or Eastend have had the same ideas years before Bristol Sport appeared. Regarding the opening post my and my friends kids like the current experience in the Williams less than the last one. It would be hard for kids 4 - 11 to articulate what they do not like but it is something like the less informal environment, the missing freedom to moved around with friends, the drop in colour and noise. Hence they are now no longer all as regular attendees as they were. In short it is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnclosureSurge Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I wonder if the haters would have been as tedious as this if the old "east end" network would have came up with the scarf idea But that's the whole point - fans coming up with ideas rather than Suits. Do we need Suits initiating ideas, we have enough of our own, if we were just given the chance to implement them (eg artwork in new stadium)/continue implementing them (eg flags waved at front) Plus the 'scarf' idea is a bit naff to some of us. Colourful yes, but identikit. Us ''haters'' (bit skewed that term, but anyway...) don't mind anyone coming up with ideas, if it could be in consultation with fans rather than just imposed from the Suits Box in the Grandstand/BS Offices. That said, there are plenty of people who liked the scarf idea, and we don't have a monopoly on good ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatcham red Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 My lad started coming aged nearly 4. He kept coming by stealth (well, me carting him down to the Gate and around the country). He has witnessed some rubbish in his time on the field, god knows how any of us stuck it. Clearly, it was not just the football that sustained his attendance.I am about to kick him out of bed so we can beat the wide load that threatens to block the M4 today. He'll be with me at the Lions hoping that Mr Billingham listens to fans. He needs to hear something that will persuade him to travel back from University next season wherever he may be for as many games as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 the haters You mean the ones being linked to extreme funny walks of the non Tory Fascist kind and organised euro style bare chested windmilling fights in Ashton Park and .... HATERS ... All considering the feedback has been restrained. My son has had enough of #AG8 this season. Might be there today, might not that is how it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Took both my kids from an early age in that nasty E.E they really enjoyed it, not just talking about the game the whole atmosphere and exp of the matchday. That has been jumped on by H & S and made up rules and regs to such an extent you are afraid to fart now in the fear you may upset someone. Recent rules and regs on flag waving, what can or cant be written on them, where you can stand sit, smoke, drink and say even has indeed throttled the life out of matchday to such an extent its become boringly boring zzzzzz. Until The City end is cut more slack I cant see my kids (or theirs) coming back on a more regular basis. Fans have tried and tried with flag days, angry ernie, painting identities all around the end, megaphone, etc, etc dispite the recent survey I cant see the posh new stand being allowed to get the Eastend "treatment" anytime soon. Give us our City back AB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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