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David Cameron Is A Phoney Shock

The Bard

By The Bard
in Football Chat

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

Posted
Posted

ah yes the usual buzzwords.  you missed out NHS, fit that in somewhere. 

 

I'd rather it stayed out of the hands of companies run by Dave's mates. The record of privatised services at providing good VFM and reasonable service delivery for the public at large is pretty poor. 

 

But let's not get sucked in to this, that is what this thread is for:   http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/167963-general-election-2015-match-day-thread-merged/

 

 

 

PS: The Conservatives are "The Conservative and Unionist Party" of course they are going to try to defend the Union, (although it should be pointed out that Cameron was the one who gave them a referendum that started the recent SNP power surge in the first place).

 

The (non-party political) questions we must address are: is the union actually worth defending? will England lose out in the long-run from a separation? and if Scotland continues to vote overwhelmingly for an anti-unionist party, is there any way independence can be prevented? 

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IAmNick

IAmNick

Posted
Posted

As robbored said it was the Tories who granted the referendum and let the people on the streets of Scotland have their say,as they will on Europe ,labour "the party of the people " won't because they can't trust us normal people

 

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."  :thumbsup: 

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WTFiGO!?!

WTFiGO!?!

Posted
Posted

As robbored said it was the Tories who granted the referendum and let the people on the streets of Scotland have their say,as they will on Europe ,labour "the party of the people " won't because they can't trust us normal people

Seems simple enough to me in that for generations to come, there is a colossol debt to pay back.

Our children, their children and their children are going to spend their lives payimg off the debt.

These politicians are just going through some posh school process, as a matter of routine.

For them to take an interest in football is as much bollocks as them taking an interest in Coronation Street.

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WhistleHappy

WhistleHappy

Posted
Posted

**** off politics on football forum. I've had enough crap through my front door this week.

Who cares who the prime minister supports he's got more important things to be getting on with.

Yeah like not leaving his kids in pubs! ... The blokes a tosspot, along with Duncan-Smith and the dick head otherwise known as William 'skull crusher' Hague ... God I hate 'em.
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Stephen Lewis

Stephen Lewis

Posted
Posted

The political situation in the UK seems to have polarized voters opinions of each other to a dangerous extreme, very similar to the near civil war engendered by that right wing thug Maggie  Thatcher.

You right wing conservative apologists are being led by your nose with the essence of superiority which you cant seem to resist. 

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LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted

Labour focus on what's best for their Party, the Conservatives focus on what's best for the UK.  Otherwise the Conservatives would have happily waved goodbye to the 40 left wing lunatic seats north of the border and we could have lived happily every after in a prosperous Conservative government in England.  

 

It is typical of Labour and their supporters to ignore the blindingly obvious.  The SNP want to take the anti-English resentment they have stirred (or more to the point brought into the political light) and replicate it as anti-Scottish resentment down in England.  That is the sole purpose of their party.  

If you like the United Kingdom then be cautious about voting Labour because it will very much be in jeopardy.  

Back to football, I'm surprised any politician, regardless of party would admit their allegiance to any team.  

 

First off I'd point out I'm not a Labour supporter.  I haven't decided who I'm going to vote for yet.  I just get frustrated when people parrot back arguments their favourite politicians or newspapers have told them with no thought or analysis.

 

Going back to the Scotland issue, this argument is easy to disprove:

 

Labour focus on what's best for their Party, the Conservatives focus on what's best for the UK.  Otherwise the Conservatives would have happily waved goodbye to the 40 left wing lunatic seats north of the border and we could have lived happily every after in a prosperous Conservative government in England.  

 

1.  There has been no election in UK history where Scottish votes have turned a Conservative win into a Labour win or vice-versa.  There've been a couple where it's given a party a majority they would not have had but none that would have effected the result.  The idea the government would always be Conservative without Scotland is factually untrue. 

 

2. The idea that the Conservatives want what's best for the UK can easily be disproved for a simple reason. They know they can't win in  a lot of the seats where the SNP will. If they really thought the SNP were a destructive menace that would destroy the UK, and wanted to do what was best to prevent that, they'd urge their supporters to vote with the big unionist parties in those constituencies to collectively prevent SNP influence.  The fact they are not urging Scottish supporters to vote Labour or Lib Dem in the seats they can't win proves they don't actually want to stop the SNP gaining power.

 

3. It's easy to follow a simple chronology here in any case.  Early in the campaign the Conservatives tried a number of arguments to win votes (Ed Miliband is incompetent, Ed Miliband hasn't thought through his spending plans and Ed Miliband will be in the pocket of Alex Salmond).  The first two arguments didn't play well - Miliband's personal ratings rose after the debates and the Conservatives themselves were strongly criticised by various newspapers and the independent Institute of Fiscal Studies, which found they have more unfunded promises than Labour does.  As a result of which, the Conservatives upped the rhetoric on Scotland and how Ed will be in the pockets of the SNP. 

 

This is not a question of principles but one of primary school arithmetic.  You need 323 to form a majority.  Current polling levels put both parties on about 275 votes and the Lib Dems, who'd work with either party) on another 30 or so.  Potentially 9 more DUP MPs could join a block with the Conservatives and they'd get to 314.  Even with 4 UKIP MPs (which would cause the Lib Dems to pull out the coalition anyway) they'd get to 318.  Not enough for majority.  The only way either one can get a majority is to get SNP support.  The SNP won't support the Conservatives so the Conservatives need to poison the water to make it impossible for Labour to include them in a government.  

 

That's nothing to do with the best interests of the country but the best interests of the Conservatives.  As for the rest of your argument:

 

 

It is typical of Labour and their supporters to ignore the blindingly obvious.  The SNP want to take the anti-English resentment they have stirred (or more to the point brought into the political light) and replicate it as anti-Scottish resentment down in England.  That is the sole purpose of their party.  

If you like the United Kingdom then be cautious about voting Labour because it will very much be in jeopardy.  

Back to football, I'm surprised any politician, regardless of party would admit their allegiance to any team.  

 

 

The irony here is that, in England, the Conservatives are doing the most to put the UK in jeopardy by playing on the divide between Scottish and English and by telling the Scottish people the English people will not factor their democratic choice into any coalition.  The Scottish people may not want to do that but ultimately the three main UK parties pushed for Scotland to remain part of the union and the votes there have the same right as we do to vote for the party we think represents our interests the best.  The best way to counteract that is not to get the Telegraph and the Mail to run some anti-Scottish headlines but rather to convince the Scottish people not to elect the SNP in the first place.  Any Unionist party who really thinks the SNP will break up the UK, should be urging people in Scotland to vote for a Unionist party (which would incidentally not result in any form of loss for the Conservatives - these are seats they won't win and an anti-Conservative party will win regardless.  The question is whether or not it's a unionist party.)  Instead the Conservatives are stirring up division and resentment with the Scottish, telling the Scottish people the English will just ignore their democratic choices and playing party politics with the future of the UK. 

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chipdawg

chipdawg

Posted
Posted

This is serving to prove how similar football and politics are; tribalism, blind to the faults of your team, unbridled hatred for your local rival

I fully expect the Labour MPs to be chanting "**** off Cameron! You are staying down! Ed said, No! No! No!" Upon the resumption of parliament

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Portland Bill

Portland Bill

Posted
Posted

As robbored said it was the Tories who granted the referendum and let the people on the streets of Scotland have their say,as they will on Europe ,labour "the party of the people " won't because they can't trust us normal people

Is this the same Tory party that propped up Alex Salmond's SNP minority Scottish government between 2007 and 2011 ??

Mods,this thread should be merged with the General election thread on the non football chat forum.

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bs3

bs3

Posted
Posted

Labour focus on what's best for their Party, the Conservatives focus on what's best for the UK. Otherwise the Conservatives would have happily waved goodbye to the 40 left wing lunatic seats north of the border and we could have lived happily every after in a prosperous Conservative government in England.

Sorry that is absolute tosh.

The Conservative is first and foremost a unionist party and was more desperate to keep Scotland in the UK. Cameron didn't want to go down in history as the man who over saw the break of Great Britain.

Many on the left was happy to see Scotland go it alone. Yesterday Lord Ashcroft polls showed Labour would be the biggest Party with 20 more seats than the Tories and that is with nearly 50 SNP MPs so Labour could easily form a government if Scotland was independent.

In 1997 ,2001 Labor would still have won the election without any Scottish MPs .

Scotland will leave the Union with in 10years imo I just cant see them staying especially if the Tories get back into power.

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Aizoon

Aizoon

Posted
Posted

Cameron pretends to be normal and cocks it up - not really strange - he'd much prefer the Eton wall game.

Liam Fox meanwhile takes his male 'special' advisor on his honeymoon. That is strange.

Probably needs advice on where to put it :noexp:

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Strictly Obi

Strictly Obi

Posted
Posted

Labour focus on what's best for their Party, the Conservatives focus on what's best for the UK. Otherwise the Conservatives would have happily waved goodbye to the 40 left wing lunatic seats north of the border and we could have lived happily every after in a prosperous Conservative government in England.

It is typical of Labour and their supporters to ignore the blindingly obvious. The SNP want to take the anti-English resentment they have stirred (or more to the point brought into the political light) and replicate it as anti-Scottish resentment down in England. That is the sole purpose of their party.

If you like the United Kingdom then be cautious about voting Labour because it will very much be in jeopardy.

Back to football, I'm surprised any politician, regardless of party would admit their allegiance to any team.

Gosh! What utter nonsense!
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handsofclay

handsofclay

Posted
Posted

This biz with PMs associating themselves with football clubs predates Cameron and Blair by some distance. Everyone knows that Winston Churchill was a Preston North End fan, or of some other team whose deadly rivals are Blackpool, coz in the 1939-40 season he famously said that we would fight them on the beaches.

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Curr Avon

Curr Avon

Posted
Posted

Labour focus on what's best for their Party, the Conservatives focus on what's best for the UK.  Otherwise the Conservatives would have happily waved goodbye to the 40 left wing lunatic seats north of the border and we could have lived happily every after in a prosperous Conservative government in England.  

 

It is typical of Labour and their supporters to ignore the blindingly obvious.  The SNP want to take the anti-English resentment they have stirred (or more to the point brought into the political light) and replicate it as anti-Scottish resentment down in England.  That is the sole purpose of their party.  

If you like the United Kingdom then be cautious about voting Labour because it will very much be in jeopardy.  

Back to football, I'm surprised any politician, regardless of party would admit their allegiance to any team.  

 

David Cameron, man of the people. "Gosh, did I say I support West Ham? I actually meant Aston Martin."

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