ChippenhamRed Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 You may be amazed to hear that a lot of people, even City fans, don't do online I realise that. But people who don't use the internet AND don't know anyone who can use the internet on their behalf are unquestionably a tiny minority. Is it so much of a stretch for these people to wait until August to buy their home shirt? Talk about a first world problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 So to summarise then, the club should open a shop for people who don't use the internet, live close enough not to benefit from the delivery charge and cannot possibly wait until August to buy a home shirt that was previously available in the shop if they were that desperate to get their hands on it? And this is considered a large enough demographic for it to be considered "commercial suicide" not to open a shop with all the running costs that entails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 You may be amazed to hear that a lot of people, even City fans, don't do online The world's a-changing though and it's for those to keep up, in my opinion. I think it was last year that the case was heard but someone challenged the tax man as they stopped doing paper tax returns and forced people to submit them online (I may be slightly out facts wise but that's my recollection). I'm pretty sure the Court's response was that there should have been provision for those with disability, no access or religious grounds for not using online but there was nothing inherently wrong with the move to online and unless you were in one of those exceptions you had no reasonable excuse for failing to submit. Given that it is only 2 months without a club shop I do think it entirely justifiable to have online only in the interim, but offers should be honoured and perhaps for those 2 months P&P waved or an option to collect from somewhere that only needs to be open for an hour or two every other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 So to summarise then, the club should open a shop for people who don't use the internet, live close enough not to benefit from the delivery charge and cannot possibly wait until August to buy a home shirt that was previously available in the shop if they were that desperate to get their hands on it? And this is considered a large enough demographic for it to be considered "commercial suicide" not to open a shop with all the running costs that entails? Ok. I am recognising the fact you are open to an argument, rather than the fact that you just aren't getting the point most others including myself are making. Putting this aside, when in the season are we traditionally selling the bulk of our shirts? I always thought people liked to buy them around this time to wear on holiday and throughout the close season? With this in mind I would be very surprised if we are selling as many, maybe 50% less would be generous. Less sells =less income, put simply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Ok. I am recognising the fact you are open to an argument, rather than the fact that you just aren't getting the point most others including myself are making. Putting this aside, when in the season are we traditionally selling the bulk of our shirts? I always thought people liked to buy them around this time to wear on holiday and throughout the close season? With this in mind I would be very surprised if we are selling as many, maybe 50% less would be generous. Less sells =less income, put simply. Don't confuse not agreeing with a point with not understanding it. Less sales does not equate to less income if the cost of selling exceeds the value of the item. Basic economics. And the vast majority of those who haven't yet bought one will ultimately still buy one, either online or when the shop opens. So at the end of the day the net effect on sales will be minimal. You are asking to club to commit to running a shop for a tiny minority of people who won't buy one unless they can have it now, and won't buy it online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyed Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 What about offering free P&P for the couple of months there is no physical shop then, that's a compromise that's fair surely? Yeah, I agree that would be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Don't confuse not agreeing with a point with not understanding it. Less sales does not equate to less income if the cost of selling exceeds the value of the item. Basic economics. And the vast majority of those who haven't yet bought one will ultimately still buy one, either online or when the shop opens. So at the end of the day the net effect on sales will be minimal. You are asking to club to commit to running a shop for a tiny minority of people who won't buy one unless they can have it now, and won't buy it online. I've got no interest in buying a shirt, but would have bought some childrens / babywear from the shop recently, had it been open. I did look online at the club shop but there is nothing on there. Looks like when they knocked the shop down they forgot to put the stock somewhere safe!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Just out of interest, have any of the people condemning the club for not providing full discount, free postage, and a shiny pop up retail outlet for the summer ever expressed a concern about our history of turning financial losses? Expensive new players? cheap tickets and merchandise? financial security for the club? Sorry folks, you can have any two of these, but you can't have all three.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Just out of interest, have any of the people condemning the club for not providing full discount, free postage, and a shiny pop up retail outlet for the summer ever expressed a concern about our history of turning financial losses? Expensive new players? cheap tickets and merchandise? financial security for the club? Sorry folks, you can have any two of these, but you can't have all three.... If the club are offering a discount (which they are) then they should be expected to honour it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonboy Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I've got no interest in buying a shirt, but would have bought some childrens / babywear from the shop recently, had it been open. I did look online at the club shop but there is nothing on there. Looks like when they knocked the shop down they forgot to put the stock somewhere safe!!! I'd have bought all the stock at retail + 10% if it had been open. Beat that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 If the club are offering a discount (which they are) then they should be expected to honour it. But they are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 The world's a-changing though and it's for those to keep up, in my opinion. I think it was last year that the case was heard but someone challenged the tax man as they stopped doing paper tax returns and forced people to submit them online (I may be slightly out facts wise but that's my recollection). I'm pretty sure the Court's response was that there should have been provision for those with disability, no access or religious grounds for not using online but there was nothing inherently wrong with the move to online and unless you were in one of those exceptions you had no reasonable excuse for failing to submit. Which was challenged and is now being reviewed as other governmental agencies do not operate in the same manner e.g Department for Work and Pension. Moving services particularly in an area such as leisure which should be inclusive and accessible by law could be looked upon as inherently wrong, and fly in the face of previous secretary of state strategy e.g. Valuing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted June 16, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 But they are... Probably best to read the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 But they are... You know what I mean. Maybe there was an *excluding purchases made in June and July* condition attached to the discount? Fair enough, people can wait till August but still. I'm not one to bash the club/Bristol Sport/whoever at any opportunity. Far from it. But I think it's pretty poor that they couldn't organise a way around this. It's not like they didn't know the shop had to go. In addition to this, as others have said, the online shop doesn't even have anywhere near the full range of items that they usually sell. They're not exactly imploring people to part with their hard-earned at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Back to the initial argument though....... A season ticket holder should be entitled to the discount. It shouldn't matter that it's the 15/16 season ticket. It was purchased in April so surely should be valid from the date of purchase. City are wrong if they choose not to honour this. If the argument is that it's a 15/16 discount, on which date is the cut off point for new and old seasons? Is it when the fixtures come out? Is it when the players go back to training? Is it when we play our first friendly? Is it our opening match? If so, is it at 3pm or from opening time? What if our kick off is switched to 5:15pm. Or even to the Friday night? What would the situation be if someone had NOT renewed this year. I bet if they tried to purchase something now using last years card they'd be refused the discount. It shouldn't really matter about whether we have a shop open, are online, on a market stall or portacabin, a season ticket holder should get the discount. Is there anything official which states the cut off point from last season to the next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Which was challenged and is now being reviewed as other governmental agencies do not operate in the same manner e.g Department for Work and Pension. I agree its implementation may have been controversial but I think judgment was bang on - it is perfectly reasonable to expect people to be technologically competent in this day and age. The difference here was that it (filing) was compulsory and that's why there needed to be provision for those classes (disabled, rural and religious). Something like a club mega store I fail to see the controversies.... works well for Asos etc I agree with RedM above that the club should not charge for P&P in the circumstances, or that they should operate a sort of depot function where you can turn up between 11am and 1pm with an e-receipt and collect at the ground. I also strongly agree that the club should honour the discount. But I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in only having an online shop tand I'd say the same if this was permanent closure. Moving services particularly in an area such as leisure which should be inclusive and accessible by law could be looked upon as inherently wrong, and fly in the face of previous secretary of state strategy e.g. Valuing people. I fail to understand what you are suggesting here? Professional football is most definitely not inclusive or accessible and has been very proud of that being so since at least 1991 and regardless of any and all political pressures to date. Otherwise you would be able to pick up an Arsenal season ticket for less than an average man's monthly paycheque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 The judgement will not be implemented by other agencies. It clearly is not considered universally reasonable. Professional football has to by law provide accessible facilities e.g ramps and disabled sections. Previous secretary of state strategy e.g. Valuing people deals also with the accessibility of information and only providing access to a on line service limits inclusion and access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamalagerdrinker Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm surprised they've not rented a store out in the City and doing it there like some other clubs do?! Unless they already do that is.. I live 300 miles away from Bristol so I couldnt tell you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 The judgement will not be implemented by other agencies. It clearly is not considered universally reasonable. Professional football has to by law provide accessible facilities e.g ramps and disabled sections. Previous secretary of state strategy e.g. Valuing people deals also with the accessibility of information and only providing access to a on line service limits inclusion and access. Only on this forum could closing a club shop for two months for very positive development works be likened to not providing disability access. A sense of proportionality please. You don't build a shop if you believe only an insignificant minority would be so put out so as to not order and/or not order in the future. That's simple economical use of resources. this really has bugger all to do with accessibility and inclusion and all to do with convenience. They are vastly different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Only on this forum could closing a club shop for two months for very positive development works be likened to not providing disability access. A sense of proportionality please. You don't build a shop if you believe only an insignificant minority would be so put out so as to not order and/or not order in the future. That's simple economical use of resources. this really has bugger all to do with accessibility and inclusion and all to do with convenience. They are vastly different things. Don't we own that hireright building now? Surely we could have put that to use somehow over the summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Don't we own that hireright building now? Surely we could have put that to use somehow over the summer? The one that's been knocked down..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyed Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Don't we own that hireright building now? Surely we could have put that to use somehow over the summer? I would imagine most the area is a health and safety risk over the summer period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 The one that's been knocked down..? No idea, it was there the last time I was there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Bcfc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 You may be amazed to hear that a lot of people, even City fans, don't do online 90% of the UK population are active internet users. For the 10% that aren't, I'm sure most of them have family members or friends whose internet they can use if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Only on this forum could closing a club shop for two months for very positive development works be likened to not providing disability access. A sense of proportionality please. You don't build a shop if you believe only an insignificant minority would be so put out so as to not order and/or not order in the future. That's simple economical use of resources. this really has bugger all to do with accessibility and inclusion and all to do with convenience. They are vastly different things. You have taken that out of context as it was an answer to your own point - Football as a spectator sport/ leisure activity does still have responsibility 1991 included. As a spectator sport/leisure activity there are laws and policy that do not mean its exempt on economic grounds. Placing a service solely on line beyond the short term could be viewed as questionable, or inherently wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 You have taken that out of context as it was an answer to your own point - Football as a spectator sport/ leisure activity does still have responsibility 1991 included. As a spectator sport/leisure activity there are laws and policy that do not mean its exempt on economic grounds. Placing a service solely on line beyond the short term could be viewed as questionable, or inherently wrong. Well obviously football clubs are not exempt from disabled access works; I assumed that would be a given. However access to a premises and providing a premises specifically for accessibility are far different things. There is no positive obligation for sales of goods to be equally available offline for football or other commercial enterprises: see asos, eBay, Amazon, iTunes yada yada yada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Someone mentioned Arsenal, have you seen this? Can you imagine that happening and not having a shop to sell it in for 2 months. They have 2 shops within their stadium, one has at least 7 tills set up just for shirt printing alone. Ok they are world wide, Premiership and we can only dream. The feeling I get from this thread from a few is shopping is done online now, maybe in that case the club have missed a trick here. They are spending thousands on putting a shop within the new development...why are they bothering huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Someone mentioned Arsenal, have you seen this? Can you imagine that happening and not having a shop to sell it in for 2 months. They have 2 shops within their stadium, one has at least 7 tills set up just for shirt printing alone. Ok they are world wide, Premiership and we can only dream. The feeling I get from this thread from a few is shopping is done online now, maybe in that case the club have missed a trick here. They are spending thousands on putting a shop within the new development...why are they bothering huh? From my own perspective I believe the club could do away with a shop and move to online sales only, but that's taking a hammer to a nut. I'm not suggesting for one moment the club shop doesn't serve a purpose - of course it does, from whim purchases on matchdays to people who do generally prefer to browse physical stock items, but what I am saying is I do not believe it unreasonable for a temporary measure for 2 months that the club move to online only during a development. Yes I accept it could have been managed better - collect from ground/ free p&p etc - but I don't think the inconvenience it causes means the club should have felt compelled to make other provisions for a physical shop. If we did do away with the shop I'm sure people would adapt, look at how online sales were viewed with full cynicism pretty much until eBay brought it in to the mainstream. Argos too, when that first launched imagine the concept: come in to my shop and look through a book, when you're finished tell me what you want, pay me for it and I'll go out back and bring it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Someone mentioned Arsenal, have you seen this? http://youtu.be/gb65w5NL7Js Can you imagine that happening and not having a shop to sell it in for 2 months. They have 2 shops within their stadium, one has at least 7 tills set up just for shirt printing alone. Ok they are world wide, Premiership and we can only dream. The feeling I get from this thread from a few is shopping is done online now, maybe in that case the club have missed a trick here. They are spending thousands on putting a shop within the new development...why are they bothering huh? Arsenal are also a club who's fan base is in the millions so there is demand for numerous shops What's our fan bas? 50k? There is just no need for more then one shop and people just have to put up with it for 2 months while the ground is a building site Anyway this has gone way off topic, Is there any news on getting that 10% discount? Have you contacted anyone at the club yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I wasn't seriously comparing us to Arsenal. Just pointing out the weight of importance of shirt selling at this time of year. I'm thinking that all the big clubs will now be getting more and more elaborate with their launches and will be trying to out do each other. Maybe we are actually ahead of Arsenal in a strange sort of way (I'm clutching at straws here) but we've had our shirt available for a few weeks now, an Arsenal fan can't get one until 25th June! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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