richwwtk Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 A lot is being made of Steve Cotterill's demeanour in his post match interview, linking it with our recruitment process over the summer that would suggest we are refusing to be held to ransom by agents over wages etc. and the fact that a lot of people feel that we may end up losing SC over this and our squad has not been strengthened enough. I for one would be very glad to know for sure that we are not being dragged into the fantasy money of modern football and are trying to do things within our means, regardless of Steve Lansdown's personal wealth. We may well lose out in the short term, but eventually a financial crash will hit football and we will come out of it better than the vast majority of clubs. If Steve Cotterill walks because of the financial backing he doesn't feel he is getting then I for one won't be desperately disappointed as it means he hasn't bought into the vision of doing things at a sensible price after all. I'm also a lot happier having players that are here for the football, and not just the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I would much rather watch a financially stable League One club than a championship club throwing money away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 If Cotterill walks then it wouldn't be because of lack of financial backing. It would be because he's been headhunted for a better job.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonsKev Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 We can't legislate for players and agents being greedy. By the looks of thing we are playing hard ball on not paying over the top. That is what Keith Burt is employed to do. I'd expect players demands to reduce over the next few weeks up to the transfer window closing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbored Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 We will always be on the look out for a bargain or one that slipped through one of the bigger teams scouting but realistically if we are to be a successful championship club we will have to pay the market rate or we won't attract any talent. It's basic economics. So if the owner has ideas of being a prem team and also filling our shiny new stadium then he will need to put his hand in his pocket otherwise we will be a L1 yo yo club. Personally couldn't give a monkeys about the prem but would like to see us being competitive in the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 We will always be on the look out for a bargain or one that slipped through one of the bigger teams scouting but realistically if we are to be a successful championship club we will have to pay the market rate or we won't attract any talent. It's basic economics. So if the owner has ideas of being a prem team and also filling our shiny new stadium then he will need to put his hand in his pocket otherwise we will be a L1 yo yo club. Personally couldn't give a monkeys about the prem but would like to see us being competitive in the championship. Agree with this completely. All clubs are looking for bargains,but when you get a bargain you are almost always taking a chance, which could go wrong. If you want proven ability at Championship level you have to pay the going rate both in terms of transfer or signing on fee and salary. It's been said we were quoted 7m for a striker, and that has to be at the very top end of a Championship value, bids of 2m plus have been turned down for defenders if we believe the papers, therefore it would seem 3 to 5 million would seem about right for proven quality. We have signed an unproven forward for 2m plus, and people are saying he needs time etc, what they are really saying is he might not be the answer. SL has to decide, if the team needs strengthing, either we pay up, or we take a bigger chance on surviving by buying at the bottom of the valuation range. No one is saying the valuations are correct, it's simply the market price, I wonder how much we got for Cunningham, and is that looked on as good business. The truth is we are way behind the rest of the league in terms of the size of our squad, that limits the managers options, and it is SLs job to give Cotts the tools to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 If Cotterill walks then it wouldn't be because of lack of financial backing. It would be because he's been headhunted for a better job.... How do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 The truth is we are way behind the rest of the league in terms of the size of our squad, that limits the managers options, and it is SLs job to give Cotts the tools to do the job. Not if it jeapordises the club's future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 How do you know? Common sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 No-one wants to see us go back to the bad old days of splashing cash. Point is the recruitment policy this summer has been completely flawed. Pelling, SC and Burt must have sat down at the end of last season and with input from SL set a budget (transfer fee expenditure and wage bill) for the summer. Pelling, SC and Burt should know The Championship very well and yet seem to have been miles off with predictions of what we needed to spend to get the players we wanted. If we knew we were going to struggle to sign establish C'ship player then the recruitment strategy should've been to sign a different sort of player - ones we KNEW we could afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Not if it jeapordises the club's future Relegation would threaten the clubs future. Remember what Cotts said about being on an upward spiral or a downward one. How many clubs in the Championship can't play 11 v 11 in training because they don't have enough players in their squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortonred Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 A lot is being made of Steve Cotterill's demeanour in his post match interview, linking it with our recruitment process over the summer that would suggest we are refusing to be held to ransom by agents over wages etc. and the fact that a lot of people feel that we may end up losing SC over this and our squad has not been strengthened enough. I for one would be very glad to know for sure that we are not being dragged into the fantasy money of modern football and are trying to do things within our means, regardless of Steve Lansdown's personal wealth. We may well lose out in the short term, but eventually a financial crash will hit football and we will come out of it better than the vast majority of clubs. If Steve Cotterill walks because of the financial backing he doesn't feel he is getting then I for one won't be desperately disappointed as it means he hasn't bought into the vision of doing things at a sensible price after all. I'm also a lot happier having players that are here for the football, and not just the money. Do you seriously believe that our players are with us for the football not the money.Then you are not in the real world.It is their profession and how they earn a living. We have just been promoted and the price of players has gone up accordingly. We have choices as a club to sign quality young players from the leagues below us which I would have liked to have been done or go for established quality young players from Championship clubs like Maguire, which will cost the going rate or as you put it fantasy money.We knew where we are going and to expect to prosper in this division without spending some serious money is at best naive at worst a recipe for relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 No-one wants to see us go back to the bad old days of splashing cash. Point is the recruitment policy this summer has been completely flawed. Pelling, SC and Burt must have sat down at the end of last season and with input from SL set a budget (transfer fee expenditure and wage bill) for the summer. Pelling, SC and Burt should know The Championship very well and yet seem to have been miles off with predictions of what we needed to spend to get the players we wanted. If we knew we were going to struggle to sign establish C'ship player then the recruitment strategy should've been to sign a different sort of player - ones we KNEW we could afford. I have said much the same elsewhere. To be surprised at the fees and wages demanded suggests poor planning and, as you say, targeting the kind of players we are by definition unable to accomodate within our wage budget is illogical to say the least. The financial and recruitment strategies have to be compatible and right now they seem to be puling in opposite directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 No-one wants to see us go back to the bad old days of splashing cash. Point is the recruitment policy this summer has been completely flawed. Pelling, SC and Burt must have sat down at the end of last season and with input from SL set a budget (transfer fee expenditure and wage bill) for the summer. Pelling, SC and Burt should know The Championship very well and yet seem to have been miles off with predictions of what we needed to spend to get the players we wanted. If we knew we were going to struggle to sign establish C'ship player then the recruitment strategy should've been to sign a different sort of player - ones we KNEW we could afford. It is always difficult to set/anticipate financial budgets because the world of football, as every other financial sector and even family budgets, is like the sand in the Sahara. Forever moving. So many factors come into play so it is very easy to be off beam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I have said much the same elsewhere. To be surprised at the fees and wages demanded suggests poor planning and, as you say, targeting the kind of players we are by definition unable to accomodate within our wage budget is illogical to say the least. The financial and recruitment strategies have to be compatible and right now they seem to be puling in opposite directions. Neatly summed up and, if correct, which it seems to be, extremely disappointing, because I thought we'd finally got a thoroughly professional set-up in place to oversee the recruitment process, which in the past had been a shambles. This development suggests either poor communication between SL and the board, on the one hand, and Burt et al on the other, or worse still, an out-and-out disagreement about policy - or both. Whilst one could legitimately question SC's own professionalism in revealing his feelings on the matter, it's not hard to understand his frustration. What concerns me is that by wearing his heart on his sleeve in this way he is to some extent conveying his misgivings to his players, who may read into it a vote of no confidence, despite recent proclamations to the contrary. Very unsettling, and it rather puts the brakes on the real sense of forward momentum the was behind the club just a few short months ago when promotion was clinched.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Relegation would threaten the clubs future. Remember what Cotts said about being on an upward spiral or a downward one. How many clubs in the Championship can't play 11 v 11 in training because they don't have enough players in their squad? That is a very good point 11 vs 11 in training. I never even thought about that. I know 11 vs 11 is not a regular thing, but we do not have the option to do that without buggering up the development squads schedule. A little worrying and not ideal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I have said much the same elsewhere. To be surprised at the fees and wages demanded suggests poor planning and, as you say, targeting the kind of players we are by definition unable to accomodate within our wage budget is illogical to say the least. The financial and recruitment strategies have to be compatible and right now they seem to be puling in opposite directions. Completely so. Getting to within two days of the season's start with just one new signing (who in truth is a total gamble from the French second division) is a clear sign the strategy did not work. I am encouraged by the signing of Fredericks and the Villa lad is a useful acquisition too, but far too little and far too late to help us on day one. Some seriously simplistic analysis on here about getting us into huge debt, let's face it, our rivals aren't Derby, Wolves, Boro and QPR, they are the 2 sides we came up with, plus Rotherham and Huddersfield. When we don't even match their transfer business you can't be surprised at apparent disharmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Completely so. Getting to within two days of the season's start with just one new signing (who in truth is a total gamble from the French second division) is a clear sign the strategy did not work. I am encouraged by the signing of Fredericks and the Villa lad is a useful acquisition too, but far too little and far too late to help us on day one. Some seriously simplistic analysis on here about getting us into huge debt, let's face it, our rivals aren't Derby, Wolves, Boro and QPR, they are the 2 sides we came up with, plus Rotherham and Huddersfield. When we don't even match their transfer business you can't be surprised at apparent disharmony. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornbury Red Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 i don't understand why we let Cunningham go without having a replacement coming in (and to a lesser degree Karleigh Osborne). I don't mind the fact that we can compete with the bigger clubs for the best known players but to let players go without replacement already in is crazy. If Joe Bryan is out for any length of time then that's going to look like bad business and was avoidable IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 i don't understand why we let Cunningham go without having a replacement coming in (and to a lesser degree Karleigh Osborne). I don't mind the fact that we can compete with the bigger clubs for the best known players but to let players go without replacement already in is crazy. If Joe Bryan is out for any length of time then that's going to look like bad business and was avoidable IMO. It seems as if top priority had been given to getting players off the payroll regardless of whether there is anybody to replace them. A high risk approach that may seriously backfire. Bryan's injury seemed almost inevitable in the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Completely so. Getting to within two days of the season's start with just one new signing (who in truth is a total gamble from the French second division) is a clear sign the strategy did not work. I am encouraged by the signing of Fredericks and the Villa lad is a useful acquisition too, but far too little and far too late to help us on day one. Some seriously simplistic analysis on here about getting us into huge debt, let's face it, our rivals aren't Derby, Wolves, Boro and QPR, they are the 2 sides we came up with, plus Rotherham and Huddersfield. When we don't even match their transfer business you can't be surprised at apparent disharmony. Quite, and I'm astonished that SL is talking about having to compete with clubs getting parachute payments as if he wasn't aware until now of the reality of the Championship. Wholly misrepresents the position unless he is deluded enough to think we can compete for the same players with a bottom 6 budget. Reminds me of Millen trying to sign players we clearly had no hope of getting and McInnes' insistence that he would only sign proven Championship players when the best player we had came from Barnet. Have we learned nothing? We appear to be fishing in the wrong waters again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Errr the transfer window is still open... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Errr the transfer window is still open... Not a lot of fresh air coming in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Quite, and I'm astonished that SL is talking about having to compete with clubs getting parachute payments as if he wasn't aware until now of the reality of the Championship. Wholly misrepresents the position unless he is deluded enough to think we can compete for the same players with a bottom 6 budget. Reminds me of Millen trying to sign players we clearly had no hope of getting and McInnes' insistence that he would only sign proven Championship players when the best player we had came from Barnet. Have we learned nothing? We appear to be fishing in the wrong waters again. Once again, I agree entirely and I'm sorry to repeat myself, but I can't quite believe we've gone from getting it so absolutely spot-on last season to seeing our recruitment strategy unravel within the space of twelve months. I genuinely, naively believed we'd finally professionalised this vital aspect of the running of the club and that we could rely on the people charged with that responsibility to get it right most of the time. It's alarming and disappointing in equal measure and they will have to resolve the issues raised pretty smartish in the little time that remains in this window - or rely on loans - if they're to get out of a situation they've created in which we're seriously under-resourced, but it's very late in the day to revert to the policy of seeking out young, less expensive signings with potential from lower leagues. What the hell were they thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 My point seems to have been missed, the thread has just filled up with people saying we should have known what the required finances are in the Chamionship and should have planned accordingly. To my mind, the finances that are required are stupidly high and the majority of the clubs are playing along and putting themselves at serious risk once the football crash comes. I am more than happy that City appear to be refusing to play to those rules and are cutting their cloth accordingly. If this comes at the cost of short term success then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 My point seems to have been missed, the thread has just filled up with people saying we should have known what the required finances are in the Chamionship and should have planned accordingly. To my mind, the finances that are required are stupidly high and the majority of the clubs are playing along and putting themselves at serious risk once the football crash comes. I am more than happy that City appear to be refusing to play to those rules and are cutting their cloth accordingly. If this comes at the cost of short term success then so be it. Does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tts_city Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 My point seems to have been missed, the thread has just filled up with people saying we should have known what the required finances are in the Chamionship and should have planned accordingly. To my mind, the finances that are required are stupidly high and the majority of the clubs are playing along and putting themselves at serious risk once the football crash comes. I am more than happy that City appear to be refusing to play to those rules and are cutting their cloth accordingly. If this comes at the cost of short term success then so be it. what crash is that then ? do you mean similar to the housing bubble that people have been on about crashing for the last 15 years but hasnt and shows no sign of crashing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 My point seems to have been missed, the thread has just filled up with people saying we should have known what the required finances are in the Chamionship and should have planned accordingly. To my mind, the finances that are required are stupidly high and the majority of the clubs are playing along and putting themselves at serious risk once the football crash comes. I am more than happy that City appear to be refusing to play to those rules and are cutting their cloth accordingly. If this comes at the cost of short term success then so be it. Could you give a time scale for this crash? Sky and now BT, not to mention the Foreign TV companies are pouring money into Premier league football, and while there is promotion and relegation to the premier league those championship clubs who have been promoted and then relegated are being given massive amounts of money, that is what we must compete with to become successful, now that doesn't necessarily mean spending the same amount of money, but it does mean when we spend, it has to be at a level that matches what others can bid. Our owner is spending upwards of 40m on revamping the stadium, we will have 27K seats to sell next season, we simply couldn't give them away if we were back in league 1. We must stay in the championship, and we must compete at the top end if the stadium spend is not to be wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 what crash is that then ? do you mean similar to the housing bubble that people have been on about crashing for the last 15 years but hasnt and shows no sign of crashing ? It has to come some time, the money can't keep going up and there is a palpable increase in dissatisfaction with modern football that is only going to get larger. It may take another 10-20 years, but it will happen, and when it does you will see a lot of clubs going to the wall. I would much rather be a supporter of a club that doesn't buy into that and put itself at risk. When it does happen, the clubs that go to the wall won't be Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal, they will be the teams like QPR that live way beyond their means and we will be expected to have sympathy for them and their supporters when that time comes. I'm sorry, but if the supporters don't speak up when their club is overspending, then they deserve no sympathy at all when they find themselves with no club to support. I'm much happier with SL spending his money on the stadium as opposed to ploughing untold millions in to the team. Once the stadium is complete we will be in a position to compete on wages at a higher level, but for now the approach is exactly right in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I'm much happier with SL spending his money on the stadium as opposed to ploughing untold millions in to the team. Once the stadium is complete we will be in a position to compete on wages at a higher level, but for now the approach is exactly right in my opinion. But that approach appears to be chasing players that would command high fees and wages, then crying foul when we miss out on them and ending up with 1 player signed 3 days before the season started? How is this the right approach? Why not go after players that we can realistically compete with in terms of fees and wages from the off so we can bed them in and be properly prepared for the opening game of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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